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Male Muscians Cross-Dressing (In Japan) - Reason Behind It?

#1
02-21-12, 9:39 PM

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I just checked out a couple of videos on youtube and nicovideo and it seems the majority of musicians who wear "masks" around their mouths and female clothes are actually male. What's the reason behind this? The first thing that comes to mind is that it's their sexual orientation, but I doubt that's the only reason. What do you guys think?

 
#2
02-21-12, 9:58 PM

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DesolateOne said:
I just checked out a couple of videos on youtube and nicovideo and it seems the majority of musicians who wear "masks" around their mouths and female clothes are actually male. What's the reason behind this? The first thing that comes to mind is that it's their sexual orientation, but I doubt that's the only reason. What do you guys think?


Unfortunately from what I've learned, sexual orientation RARELY plays a role in crossdressing compared to other more common reasons behind it.
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"



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#3
02-21-12, 10:12 PM

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Sigh.

Btw, their sexual orientation could be anything, they don't have to be gay. Someone doesn't have to be gay to enjoy wearing the opposite sex clothes.
I don't like how there is such a high stigma with men wearing women's clothing, and then there's none when women do the same with men's clothing.
 
#4
02-21-12, 10:14 PM

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Just to make it easier for any other readers, I'll quote a paragraph from the wiki page concerning sexual orientation and crossdressing:

The term denotes an action or a behavior without attributing or proposing causes for that behavior. Some people automatically connect cross-dressing behavior to transgender identity or sexual, fetishist, and homosexual behavior, but the term cross-dressing itself does not imply any motives.
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"



Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly.
 
#5
02-21-12, 10:14 PM

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Man, I misread that as "Male Mexicans Cross-Dressing In Japan".
 
#6
02-21-12, 10:23 PM

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I would guess the reason is because they want to wear women's clothing, probably.
 
#7
02-21-12, 10:45 PM

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nerb said:
Man, I misread that as "Male Mexicans Cross-Dressing In Japan".


I'll admit, I laughed.
 
#8
02-21-12, 10:52 PM

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holypoop said:
Sigh.

Btw, their sexual orientation could be anything, they don't have to be gay. Someone doesn't have to be gay to enjoy wearing the opposite sex clothes.
I don't like how there is such a high stigma with men wearing women's clothing, and then there's none when women do the same with men's clothing.


I know what you're trying to say and I already took that into consideration before posting. That's why I said I doubted it was just because of sexual orientation. I'm not trying to prove my innocence here but when I first watched the vids and read the comments about how they were guys, I couldn't care less. It was just something I wondered.

 
#9
02-21-12, 10:58 PM

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Well the next time you meet a cross-dressing Japanese male musician, you should just ask them. I doubt our opinion will be worth much. Not unless MAL has a huge transvestite population I am unaware of. Then again I am unaware of many things that concern MAL...
 
02-21-12, 11:04 PM

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It's pretty well known that gender identity in Japan is different from western civilizations. Not saying that ALL Japanese men run around cross-dressing, but I mean.. we all watch anime here. I know I've seen it quite a few times in shows, and those guys aren't always homosexual.

Moreover, there's a LOT of pop/rock stars in countries like Japan and Korean and let's face it.. you gotta use a gimmick somehow. So my guesses for reasons would be A. Cultural differences (and acceptance?) and B. Publicity enhancers.. Both to an extent of course.
 
02-21-12, 11:34 PM

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I asked here because the cover songs they do are based on Anime OSTs.

 
02-22-12, 1:08 AM

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I don't think it has anything to do with acceptance, because they certainly aren't accepted over there.

A lot of the bands that have one (or sometimes two) men crossdressing are along the genre of Visual Kei or Oshare Kei. It's a very visual (obviously) sort of music where appearance means an awful lot. But the vast majority of them are not, and will never be major. Only a few exceptions to that, and when they went major they lost the VK/OK touch (L'Arc~en~Ciel {yes, they started out VK}, An Cafe, Gazette, etc). Dir en grey used to be VK too, but they dropped that soon after they started touring throughout the world (unfortunately) and changed their music style as well. Those sorts of bands that stay indie have a relatively small fanbase and, like anime, isn't widely received. In fact, it's rather frowned down upon - had a friend in Japan during the big Jrock rush a few years ago that wouldn't openly admit to liking said bands and only said popular ones... things like Morning Musume and other bands highly recognized.

I think it really boils down to the fact that some of these guys like crossdressing, some of the bands need a member that crossdresses to fit the VK/OK sort of status, and some might do it just because there's some sort of chance to be picked up by major record labels, however small that chance might be.

I could probably keep going but I'm just rambling at this point since I'm really tired. :/
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02-22-12, 2:14 AM

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DesolateOne said:
I just checked out a couple of videos on youtube and nicovideo and it seems the majority of musicians who wear "masks" around their mouths and female clothes are actually male. What's the reason behind this? The first thing that comes to mind is that it's their sexual orientation, but I doubt that's the only reason. What do you guys think?


And how to you know if they are actually male or not? Because you read the trap comments?
 
02-22-12, 2:19 AM

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH-ZtWDRrHY
I almost got a heart attack...
Versailles ia really awesome band though.
I see dead people.
 
02-22-12, 3:27 AM

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Maybe they find female clothing more comfortable. Or they want to be a trap.
Or.. Or maybe they want female fans to see how men are more beautifully crafted than females nowadays?
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02-22-12, 6:07 AM

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Fucking Visual Kei. It's essentially glam-rock, Japanese edition. Lolita23q is a good example. Love their music, but if they think I'm getting a hard on from watching their music videos... no comment.
 
02-22-12, 6:49 AM

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I would gladly cross-dress for money.
 
02-22-12, 7:42 AM

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The fujoshi and females in general love their traps. The men crossdressing are often hetrosexual in nature

Like with host bars the men aren't manly men in those establishments, they are feminine looking men. Same thing they are straight and some do have sex with their female clients outside of premises upon request.


 
02-22-12, 8:33 AM

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Music has since the 50s become just as much about the visual performance as it is about the music itself. Visual Kei and the like is just one of the more popular ways for Japanese bands to form the right image to appeal to the target audience they're aiming for.

Same reason black metal bands wear corpse paint and mainstream rappers wear lots of "bling," most musicians need to appeal stylistically aswell as through their songs.
 
02-22-12, 9:06 AM

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Monad said:
DesolateOne said:
I just checked out a couple of videos on youtube and nicovideo and it seems the majority of musicians who wear "masks" around their mouths and female clothes are actually male. What's the reason behind this? The first thing that comes to mind is that it's their sexual orientation, but I doubt that's the only reason. What do you guys think?


And how to you know if they are actually male or not? Because you read the trap comments?


No, of course I don't come to a conclusion just based on that. If anything, the comments just makes me aware that it may be true. I know they are a male when they speak with their normal voice and who are known to be male such as a person called makmakmakochan. Otherwise, I don't know for sure - but I'm not talking about those who I am not sure 100%. I'm talking about musicians who are biologically male, but dress up in female clothing.

 
02-22-12, 12:36 PM

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It's not limited to visual key and/or musicians with masks...


And what's even more horrible...they really look female. I mean, I can't think of any European that wouldn't look like a total freak when dressing up like a woman, but somehow it seems to work for asians...
 
02-22-12, 12:49 PM

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another Vkei bashing thread

great job really
not
my 11 main things i rate on

1 Impact on Impact on industry both the anime and Original Manga had
2 TV Ratings in Japan [ Gross for movies Unit sales for OVAs 3 Manga Ka of the Sourcework
4 how loyal the anime stayed to its source how well the compare to other big name in its genre
5 Seiyuu casting [ how many i know by voice i use the royal I here ]
6 Impact on General Pop Culture in Japan and the West 7 Impact on Otaku Culture in Japan and the West
8 Music[ Instrumentation]
9 merchandise sales
10 art style 11 Studio who produced the anime[ and what thay have done for the industry]





 
02-22-12, 1:18 PM
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Onitenshi said:
It's not limited to visual key and/or musicians with masks...


And what's even more horrible...they really look female. I mean, I can't think of any European that wouldn't look like a total freak when dressing up like a woman, but somehow it seems to work for asians...
Well that video was a bad example for your statement since that is the exact kind of music visual kei usually play with.

As for cross-dressing Europeans, there was a recent article I read about this model who really looks like a woman, except he didn't need to cross-dress to look like one. Apparently he isn't even homosexual or whatever non-heterosexual terms he was described with. If only I can remember his name...

24601 said:
another Vkei bashing thread

great job really
not
There wasn't a lot of bashing, if you actually cared to read.

As my feelings for visual kei, I like some of their stuff. The most listened band for me is vivid. Love the band's solo and the dude's voice.
 
02-22-12, 1:24 PM

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If I had the physique/face, I'd do it
 
02-22-12, 1:31 PM

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Onitenshi said:

And what's even more horrible...they really look female. I mean, I can't think of any European that wouldn't look like a total freak when dressing up like a woman, but somehow it seems to work for asians...


I'm friends with two people who I've known from IRL that are of European origin that look totally feminine and petite. Slim, female-shaped legs, waist, hips and shoulders. Smooth skin and all. One is Czech and the other is Russian. They identify themselves as female, and as such, I see them and treat them as female. They're the ONLY ones I know IRL, and both happen to be European, so there goes that.
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"



Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly.
 
02-22-12, 2:20 PM

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Whatever sells records.
 
02-22-12, 3:01 PM

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Tachii said:

Well that video was a bad example for your statement since that is the exact kind of music visual kei usually play with.

Huh? That's a guitarist doing various covers ranging from rock to metal...that has nothing to do with visual key...
Tachii said:

As for cross-dressing Europeans, there was a recent article I read about this model who really looks like a woman, except he didn't need to cross-dress to look like one. Apparently he isn't even homosexual or whatever non-heterosexual terms he was described with. If only I can remember his name...

The only one I saw in media lately was this gi..something...
 
02-22-12, 3:50 PM

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I don't know. Maybe girls in Japan find it cute and they are the ones getting laid 24/7 like rock stars are here. Or maybe they really are gay in which case whatever as long as they enjoy it.
Honestly it doesn't matter and you shouldn't worry about it.
Modified by FatherAnderson, 02-22-12, 3:53 PM
 
02-22-12, 4:17 PM

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Simple concept: tits get hits.
 
02-22-12, 4:33 PM

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Because women like it, and when you can appeal to women, it sells.

Simple as that.
 
02-22-12, 4:39 PM

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Onitenshi said:



Nah.
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"



Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly.
 
02-22-12, 4:47 PM

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Bloodcalibur said:
Onitenshi said:



Nah.


Wat. Is that.
 
02-22-12, 4:50 PM

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Holy shit stop quoting that pic. Uncanny Valley is horrible.
 
02-22-12, 4:52 PM

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Onitenshi said:

The only one I saw in media lately was this gi..something...


Reminds me of this:


 
02-22-12, 4:56 PM

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Reminds me of white Jesus. Trolol.
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"



Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly.
 
02-22-12, 5:03 PM

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To wet the panties of their female fans, that's nothing new.
DarkPaladinX said "In fact, I can easily site Black Bullet from the spring 2014 anime season had establish the anime trend in America where the fandom more hostile towards anything moe or loli. On the other hand, I can also site Haikyuu!! and Free! where the trends are more favorable towards bishonens and sports anime in America. If you ask me, Cute High Earth Defense Club LOVE! is WAY more liked in the American fanbase than Kancolle." and I agree with him 201%
 
02-22-12, 5:07 PM

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I think most people in this thread are missing the context entirely. These aren't professional musicians, they're teenagers on niconico, which is quite a lot like youtube. They don't make any money out of it, and generally, no one knows who they are in real life.

I'm pretty sure it's because girls get more views. Not because crossdressers get more views. Or, you know, because they want to do it.
 
02-22-12, 5:57 PM

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You guys know those cam-who... exquisite people that use their boo... breasts to gain views (and probably cash) on youtube? (e.g. hannaminx and that megan girl) It seems guys are doing it too, but since they dont have the junk, they make 3d female avatars to try to reproduce the same effect -.-
 
02-22-12, 10:07 PM

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When you take a close look in everyday life of Japanese people, a lot of them (male) use female accessories and bags, even clothes. Crossdressed musicians doesn't sound uncommon in my ears.
 
02-22-12, 10:15 PM

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Onitenshi said:
Tachii said:

Well that video was a bad example for your statement since that is the exact kind of music visual kei usually play with.

Huh? That's a guitarist doing various covers ranging from rock to metal...that has nothing to do with visual key...
Tachii said:

As for cross-dressing Europeans, there was a recent article I read about this model who really looks like a woman, except he didn't need to cross-dress to look like one. Apparently he isn't even homosexual or whatever non-heterosexual terms he was described with. If only I can remember his name...

The only one I saw in media lately was this gi..something...
>



Here, I'll just go ahead and post the obligatory
 
02-23-12, 5:07 AM

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Go to any department store in North America, women's clothes out number men's 3 to 1.

Visit any mall, women's stores out number men's places more than 3 to one because men rarely have their own stores to begin with.

Women have stores just for underclothes, men are lucky to get a few feet of shelf where our shorts are sold.

Women's clothes often get made to a great deal of variation, and often are better made. Men can buy a suit, but often our clothes are average at best.

I've been shopping long enough to know all this too.

In Japan, a man with some luck can fake a bust, and presto with the right clothes you have what looks like a girl. In North America, a guy wearing women's clothing is obvious generally speaking. Male body structure in North America is rarely anything like feminine.

Just why some guys like wearing women's clothes depends on the person. Sometimes a skirt can be a bit cold on the legs, sometimes a skirt can mean you don't end up sweating as much on a sweltering hot day.
While not technically anime, currently I am a big fan of Hatsune Miku.
At least I can go see her in concert.
 
02-23-12, 5:28 AM

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Tachii said:
Onitenshi said:
It's not limited to visual key and/or musicians with masks...


And what's even more horrible...they really look female. I mean, I can't think of any European that wouldn't look like a total freak when dressing up like a woman, but somehow it seems to work for asians...
Well that video was a bad example for your statement since that is the exact kind of music visual kei usually play with.

As for cross-dressing Europeans, there was a recent article I read about this model who really looks like a woman, except he didn't need to cross-dress to look like one. Apparently he isn't even homosexual or whatever non-heterosexual terms he was described with. If only I can remember his name...

24601 said:
another Vkei bashing thread

great job really
not
There wasn't a lot of bashing, if you actually cared to read.

As my feelings for visual kei, I like some of their stuff. The most listened band for me is vivid. Love the band's solo and the dude's voice.

vkei is a genre of muisc that is 99% dead any way its all oshare Kei ok in the main watch a pree 92 video of the bad x to see vkei and its also mainly indie you will hardly a a true Vkei band on a major label
my 11 main things i rate on

1 Impact on Impact on industry both the anime and Original Manga had
2 TV Ratings in Japan [ Gross for movies Unit sales for OVAs 3 Manga Ka of the Sourcework
4 how loyal the anime stayed to its source how well the compare to other big name in its genre
5 Seiyuu casting [ how many i know by voice i use the royal I here ]
6 Impact on General Pop Culture in Japan and the West 7 Impact on Otaku Culture in Japan and the West
8 Music[ Instrumentation]
9 merchandise sales
10 art style 11 Studio who produced the anime[ and what thay have done for the industry]





 
02-23-12, 5:58 AM

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Onitenshi said:
It's not limited to visual key and/or musicians with masks...


And what's even more horrible...they really look female. I mean, I can't think of any European that wouldn't look like a total freak when dressing up like a woman, but somehow it seems to work for asians...


He/she is awesome! Thanks for the post!!
Are you really sure that's a dude? :O
I see dead people.
 
02-23-12, 9:47 AM

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Nintendosoni said:

Are you really sure that's a dude? :O

His facebook
hikky said:

Here, I'll just go ahead and post the obligatory

Point taken
 
02-23-12, 2:28 PM

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I don't care why, but as loong as they remind me of traps, I like totally giggle because it happens to be amazing to me.

my assumption is a having a different persona on stage, maaaaaybe trying to not show their real looks. Like siad, this is glam rock, except they are closer to Harajuku, where various of different types of fashions is apparent.
 
02-24-12, 2:25 PM

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For easy sales and money!!
 
02-24-12, 3:44 PM

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Maora said:
I don't care why, but as loong as they remind me of traps, I like totally giggle because it happens to be amazing to me.

my assumption is a having a different persona on stage, maaaaaybe trying to not show their real looks. Like siad, this is glam rock, except they are closer to Harajuku, where various of different types of fashions is apparent.


Mmmm, trapz. I'd do em, no problem.
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"



Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly.
 
02-26-12, 8:20 PM

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Not a musician but just showing. Katsura, that guy from Gintama dressed like a woman:





^That *is* a guy by the way:



If you can pull of something like that, why not? Even just for a chuckle or two.
 
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