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Pandora Hearts Chapter 70 Discussion
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View Poll Results: Pandora Hearts Chapter 70 Discussion
5 out of 5: Loved it!
 
105 95.45%
4 out of 5: Liked it
 
4 3.64%
3 out of 5: It was OK
 
0.00%
2 out of 5: Disliked it
 
1 0.91%
1 out of 5: Hated it
 
0.00%
Voters: 110

02-20-12, 8:01 PM

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Orulyon said:
I think if it was Vincent it wouldnt be a troll, and we know Jun loves to troll us. I believe that Vince did hate Alice and even killed Cheshire, but for sure he didnt kill her, c´mon, it must have been B-Rabbit who killed her, and B-Rabbit is probably Oz. In chapter 20, Oz says in a berserk moment that "he will destroy Alice", so it makes sense. But then, again, didnt Alice died murdered by scissors? if it was B-rabbit, it doesnt make sense to use scissors...
I thought Jack could have killed her, but then, if it was Jack, then why did he got so mad with Glen in the flashback and yelled "You want to use Alice?!". I believe if there is anything genuine in Jack´s heart its only two simple things: Lacie and Alice( simply for being Lacie´s daughter, its enough). I dont think it was Jack even if he doesnt give a shit about others.
but iam certainly curious how B-Rabbit became Jack´s chain...for that i do have a hint on chapter 20
,

But B-Rabbit is Oz... what do you mean probably? Yes he did say "I'll destroy Alice if it makes her happy, I'll destroy everything that makes you sad!" I believe Oz would kill her with scissors because he could hide those better than hiding a giant scythe especially if he was in his plush rabbit form. But since Alice was falling from the ceiling (it seems in the memory) then how ... ?

I think when he said "You want to use Alice!?" because he needs her to talk to the Intention who can grant his wish. Without Alice he can't fufill his plan to bring back Lacie (or fufill her wish) Also Revis said he could use Alice however he wishes... it makes me wonder if he honestly cares for Alice or if it's merely a facade to get to the Intention.

He gained his Chain from the Intention because he learned about Celia's Chain, became interested and wanted one so learned a way to enter the Core in order to meet with the Intention have tea and cookies, call her a glutton, and obtain a Chain for himself... (which would be Oz, also couldn't it have been the Intention who was calling Oz her friend? Since it seems that of the two the Intention loves "dollies" more ? So then she would give Oz as a present to Jack for being her friend? Okay... now I'm just going off track. ) Okay I get it. Also Oz's body is Jack's so it could just be Jack's memory that Oz is seeing.

Orulyon said:



Gil + Leo + Vince = Baskervilles
Bakservilles - Vince = Defected to get his wish granted
Vince + Jack(Oz) = Master and Servant
Alice ... all alone. On neither side because she does not know this Glen and not with Oz because ... well if he DID kill her... why would she?

If Jack does really care about Alice, then it would also be for their friendship and not only the fact that Alice is Lacie's daughter. If he truly doesn't care about her though, then it's to keep her alive to continue seeing the Intention to get closer to granting his or Lacie's wish. the Will loves Jack? More like obssessed ahaha.

Oh damn, there is too much going on in Pandora Hearts. Jun... why you make us think so much ?!
Modified by cielleia, 02-20-12, 8:05 PM
❝ & your heart, as it was then, will be on f i r e.

— anna akhmatova
 
02-21-12, 7:14 AM

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OzxAlice said:

You didn't say anything ... ?
❝ & your heart, as it was then, will be on f i r e.

— anna akhmatova
 
02-21-12, 7:30 AM

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I know it missed off the end of my message- computers seriously messed up

In the opera house Rufus Barma was telling Alice that she wanted to forget her memories because they were too painful and if she remembered she'd want to die. So something really traumatic must have happened to her and maybe she asked Oz to kill her cause she couldn't carry on? They did make a promise that Oz would always help when she was in need... I don't know, I'm still peeling bits of my brain off of the wall
 
02-21-12, 9:58 AM

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Yeah, I think Oz would kill Alice if he thought she wanted him to and if it would make her happy. Of course, we also don't know if he actually did.

We also don't know if Alice would die if Oz does. I mean, prior to her fading in 65, I would never imagine that her personal existence would be affected by the loss of B-Rabbit power. I mean, she's existed perfectly fine on her own before, so I don't see how being separated from that power would do anything except turn her human again. But yeah, her fading is troubling... we still don't know why that's happening, though, or where she's going.

The same question can be asked of Alyss, though. She doesn't want to be Will of the Abyss anymore... does that mean she'll die if she stops being WotA? does she want to die? I think there must be a way to separate both Alice and Alyss from the powers that got attached to them, and just have them be human.
 
02-21-12, 12:35 PM

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cielleia said:

But Alice also has a twin sister and Zwei (Noise) has another personality that shares her body called Echo which could also symbolize twins. Their Chain is called Doldum in reference to the Tweedle twins. Also, when Gilbert brought out Raven they ran off.

Tweedledee and Tweedledum ran away from the giant Crow in the story and never got to start their battle over the brand new rattle.


Ok because English is not my mother language, and I didn't read the Alice novel this was a new thing for me.

cielleia said:

Also I thought.
Jack = Lewis Carrol, as he loved kids just like Jack does.


That was the writer of the real story, right?

cielleia said:

Oz = White Rabbit (that's it's name)

Glen = The Red King because it would make sense in that Miranda loves him (his head I should say) and wants his head. If she is counted as the Red Queen, which connects her to the Chain also known as The Queen of Hearts. It would make sense because all three, Red Queen/Hearts, Miranda and the Chain all loved heads.

Duke Barma = The Caterpillar, knowledgeable in every subject.

Echo&Noise aka Zwei = Tweedle Twins

Who is the watchmaker you mentioned for Jack? & There's only one rabbit but there is a March Hare which is similar to a rabbit.


These are usefull stuffs, thx^^ The watchmaker probably my mistake, because there was an Alice manga where a watchmaker was a main charachter, or could be said it was a shinigami thing, and I thought that the real Alice story has something similar too, but I was wrong^^"

cielleia said:

So far, still not sure about Lacie's return although I don't think she'll come back but rather help Jack move on. Why? I dunno.


Well Lacie had some stuffs in her mind I think...
 
02-21-12, 1:17 PM

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Barbara-chan said:

These are usefull stuffs, thx^^ The watchmaker probably my mistake, because there was an Alice manga where a watchmaker was a main charachter, or could be said it was a shinigami thing, and I thought that the real Alice story has something similar too, but I was wrong^^"



Yes I know that manga too. Altough in the novel there's no watchmaker the white rabbit is always late and always checks his pocket watch. (so watches might come from that line :) )
 
02-22-12, 11:03 PM

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Yes I totlly agree with this! When Zai's son was born the doctors said there was something wrong with him... maybe because he was a child of misfortune???
 
02-25-12, 9:43 AM

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About Oz killing Alice. I also think he did as it was pretty much openly said earlier.
Here and on the next page.
Yura was trying to recreate the tragedy of Sablier and it was so similar that Vincent had a flashback earlier, then read what Oz is thinking on those pages.
At first I thought those were Jack's memories, but then all the other chapters came out.
As for Vincent, that would be way too obvious. The scissors were bloody because he killed her cat, but technically he could have just left them there(he didn't have them in the Abyss). Not to mention that it's pretty hard to kill someone with scissors.
 
02-25-12, 9:55 AM

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GracefulDownfall said:
About Oz killing Alice. I also think he did as it was pretty much openly said earlier.
Here and on the next page.
Yura was trying to recreate the tragedy of Sablier and it was so similar that Vincent had a flashback earlier, then read what Oz is thinking on those pages.
At first I thought those were Jack's memories, but then all the other chapters came out.
As for Vincent, that would be way too obvious. The scissors were bloody because he killed her cat, but technically he could have just left them there(he didn't have them in the Abyss). Not to mention that it's pretty hard to kill someone with scissors.


I'd completely forgot about this, but you're right, he pretty much confesses to killing Alice!! This story just keeps getting sadder and sadder!!!

Also, IF Vincent is Zai's real son, that would make Ada his sister... who he dated! :S
 
02-25-12, 9:59 AM

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OzxAlice said:


I'd completely forgot about this, but you're right, he pretty much confesses to killing Alice!! This story just keeps getting sadder and sadder!!!

Also, IF Vincent is Zai's real son, that would make Ada his sister... who he dated! :S


Except he didn't really like Ada anyways he thought she was weird and ... well a Vessalius. He only dated her to make Gil happy and to get to Oz, I believe ? I know for sure about that Gil getting off his back though.
❝ & your heart, as it was then, will be on f i r e.

— anna akhmatova
 
02-25-12, 11:00 AM

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WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You mean PH chpater 70 has only been released in OV don't you??????????? cuz i can't find the english version anywhere !!!!!!!!!!!! can't understand anything of the raw version T_T
 
02-26-12, 12:36 PM

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I'm betting that it really is Oz who killed Alice because in chapter one, she stated that http://www.mangareader.net/350-24630-35/pandora-hearts/chapter-1.html Oz stayed by her side whenever she was sad, but a few pages after that, http://www.mangareader.net/350-24630-38/pandora-hearts/chapter-1.html she said that she would never forgive him. For what? Possibly killing/ betraying her...

Then a few pages after that, she said that she was going to teach him feelings of disparity,etc. negative feelings hinting that he didn't feel feelings when he was in his chain form, but now that he's "human", he has gained that sense.
Makes sense? OTL Gomen, I'm bad at explaining things. XD
 
02-26-12, 3:07 PM

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Wtf did I just read?

^is my reaction. This manga will never cease to amaze me profoundly.
 
02-26-12, 3:32 PM

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My mind is so blown right now, O_O the whole entire chapter; sorry ahead of time if these sound like dumb questions, so if Oz is the B Rabbit that makes him a chain from the abyss right? then how the does the whole connection between him and Alice work, or the seal for that matter. I'm so lost right now, Also if that body doesn't belong to Oz then how is he inside of it, so many questions XD.
 
02-26-12, 3:44 PM

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Haaah, Jun...Stop breaking my mind every chapter, my mind can't take it anymore! Dx
So many things that's going on, so many twists here and there...

I want to read more! D8

Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews
 
02-26-12, 4:27 PM

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So if Oz is a chain, then does that mean he's a chain within a -

/shot

Now if we can only get an anime remake based solely on the manga.

My life will be complete.

Shit just totally got real.
Modified by VCH, 02-26-12, 4:31 PM
 
02-26-12, 4:40 PM

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OH SH*T
 
02-26-12, 5:43 PM

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Maffy said:
Wtf did I just read?

^is my reaction. This manga will never cease to amaze me profoundly.


This is how I feel.
 
02-26-12, 5:57 PM

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Anyone have any theories on why does Oz have a contractor seal if he is a chain?

And well, if Zai switched his newborn son for the Oz we know, then he's certainly responsible for B-Rabbit's comeback, right? Maybe Zai offered his own son's body to be the vessel for B-Rabbit's soul or something, and the true Oz is gone because of that... although I have no idea why the Baskervilles would want to bring B-Rabbit back.

idk o.O
 
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02-26-12, 7:02 PM

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Chains don't have to be that much different from humans. Many chains used to be humans. The Baskervilles are more chain that human, and they're perfectly capable of forming contracts with other chains. And, on top of this, Oz is in a human body - not his own, but in Jack's "container" - so I don't see why it's so strange that the body could make a contract. It's more of a contract between Jack and B-Rabbit than between Oz and himself. Of course, there's still something strange about this body, since its blood tastes different from that of a human. But, even so, we're back to the fact that Baskervilles form contracts all the time.
 
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