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game8910 said: InfiniteDestiny said: Well you most likely have said it before but could you explain to me how it is so well founded? Because lets say worse comes to worse, and the Denizens commit all kinds of reckless acts in Xanadu like on Earth and causes unbalance (even though they said it would take thousands of years...) wouldn't it be better to try to maintain that scenario through order than fight a war for no reason? War is considered success when at the end of it all you gain something from it right? you are fighting for something aside from pride or perhaps sadistic battle tendencies what are the Flame Haze's fighting for anymore? Another key thing was actually mentioned by a Flame Haze (forget who) Flame Hazes fight for their own (selfish) reasons, like Margery's revenge and such, they have no such noble desires as protecting humans, it has been seen many times that they view them as inferior beings even though they were once human... Also the main reason i can't sympathize with the Flame Hazes doesn't even have to do with the plan per say, it pertains to the fact that they are against the very concept of peace; when Yuji was announcing his order; the stupid nun did nothing but put her head down with closed eyes and completely shut it out.. i mean its not even worth hearing out? Its like this episode when Tanaka asked why Yuji simply couldn't talk to Shana.. if she was being reasonable then perhaps she would look at both sides thus making a conversation possible but nooo...also she hasn't even given a clear cut reason for fighting all season long. You mention that war is fought in order to gain, I believe this only applies to the side that starts the conflict, which in this case it would be Bal Masque. In theory flame hazes are not fighting to gain anything, thats not what "protecting" means (of course this is "flame hazes" as defined by their official role). Many Flame Hazes are bitter and angry people with legitimate reasons to hate denizes so for them to look down on them as you say sounds reasonable. Its not like they are innocent and deserve our sympathy either. As for Sophie, well all I could say is that she is old fashioned I guess...im not going to defend her. However if you really think about it, you say they could try to talk about it and not be fighting each other but has Yuji really even given them the chance to do so? The only person Yuji ever tried to talk into joining him was Shana in episode 4, and even then he didnt ask for her input. Bal Masque started attacking Outlaw bases even before Yuji and the Snake merged...no, Bal Masque does NOT want to talk things over with anyone, they all hellbent on achieving their ambition and crush anyone that opposes it. So I will now try to explain 1 more time why I think their reasons for fighting are legitimate. This is how I see it, Flame Hazes are branded as "protectors of the balance" (regardless of what their real intentions are). The reason Shana still wishes to stop Yuji's plan is as already explained to prevent a disaster that "could" potentially throw every world into an even greater chaos than before. For the sake of trying to enforce the idea lets say Yuji does manage to forever keep Xanadu's peace and tomogaras never eat humans again and nothing bad ever happens again. In such a situation then credit to him, Flame Hazes really wont be needed again. Now lets assume Yuji cant prevent other denizes from consuming humans, even if they dont have the need to do so, even if Xanadu has a free flowing stream of PoE. Yuji and the snake may create an utopia that can last aeons, but in reality, even as a god, an eternal utopia is something that sounds impossible even as I type it out. Nothing can truly last for all eternity no matter what it is. Is it better to just keep things the way they are? Seeing how I actually do wish for Yuji's plan to succeed I think I dont need to answer this. However as a Flame Haze, as someone that is supposed to prevent disasters from happening, what would they do if a catastrophe does happen and they are suddenly unable to do anything about it? As protectors of the world they would have failed their mission, as people that should have prevented this from happening, no matter how unlikely or how far afar it may happen. As Centerhill mentioned once everyone leaves for Xanadu no one will be able to know what they will do. InfiniteDestiny said: However... the big difference which is the reason many side against the Flame Hazes's like you mentioned on MAL is because it will have free flowing existence, there will be no need to consume humans, it would be like stealing food when you got it for free, it would make no sense. Like I mentioned before, in a real world scenario, even if you have no need to do something it doesnt mean that there wont eventually be some kind of lunatic that will attempt something crazy. Even if Xanadu is heavily regulated, just like water eventually forms canyons drop by drop, I do not believe that this is a paradise that can last for all eternity (but I do still want to see it). GODDAMN THIS TOOK LONG TO WRITE, its hard to argue for the sake of the opposing side... Well i gotta say it was informative for a argument for the Flame Hazes provided with reason, but even so i still can't buy there way of thinking. You mentioned how if some lunatic went wild and started causing problems right? well lets say that does happen that there are leaks in Yuji's "rule" wouldn't it take many of them for it to even make a difference, i doubt a few incidents would mean anything to the overall balance. As for eternity.. well i don't know exactly why you agree with Yuji plan yourself but from my standpoint i would say that thousands of years of paradise is better than an eternity of crap; and the world could end tomorrow for all they know; they are looking thousands of years in the future when they can't even maintain the present. Your view on Flame Haze's and humans was interesting; so would you say that distaste is jealousy? since humans (well most anyway) have the lives Flame Hazes have lost and can never regain, even an ordinary life might appease to a Flame Haze, yet since they can't have it they hate them for it? I suppose Margery just gave off a bad example, her killing that little Flame Haze last season didn't help her cause either; it just appears that they are truly selfish; like they forgot what it means to be human (don't misunderstand, humans can be SELFISH as hell, but what i meant was other things such as emotions and such). As for the whole conversing and trying to talk things over; if The Flame Hazes gave a white flag and no i don't mean surrender their whole army so you can slaughter us, but send a "representative" like Shana to talk with Yuji, then that's one way and I'm sure there are many others; i guess my point was that they showed zero interest in such a conversation, they didn't care about Yuji's side from the get go. Also i don't think they attacked Outlaw before he merged since; its implied he merged at the end of last season when he "chose" Shana before he left. Also wouldn't you say that Shana's approach is as the SoF put it "naive", i mean she is fighting him for the reason you gave to prevent a possible disaster but she doesn't even know what she wants after that, its like i mentioned, they are looking so far ahead to the potential future without even giving care to the messed up present; Lets say they beat Yuji, everything goes there way; what do they do go straight back to their eternal war like nothing happened? War is fought for gain by the initiators; this i can agree to however; would you say the "protectors" are protecting humans and existence or their own sense of worth and perhaps even there pride? BXRBudda said: Amen!! I would like to that that aeons are probably pretty short compared to the life span of the Denizens and it's only a matter of time before that energy runs our or some monomaniac decides to wage war against Yuji. . I just wonder how Yuji has managed to make a world that has seemingly unlimited energy or atleast alot of it. I think the Reiji Maigo ties into the plan for limitless existence, since the SoF failed before but this time believes it will be successful, i think the reasoning for this is because of his knowledge of the "rift" and the presence of the Reiji Maigo. |
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InfiniteDestiny said: Well i gotta say it was informative for a argument for the Flame Hazes provided with reason, but even so i still can't buy there way of thinking. You mentioned how if some lunatic went wild and started causing problems right? well lets say that does happen that there are leaks in Yuji's "rule" wouldn't it take many of them for it to even make a difference, i doubt a few incidents would mean anything to the overall balance. As for eternity.. well i don't know exactly why you agree with Yuji plan yourself but from my standpoint i would say that thousands of years of paradise is better than an eternity of crap; and the world could end tomorrow for all they know; they are looking thousands of years in the future when they can't even maintain the present. I do agree with your "thousands of years of paradise is better than an eternity of crap" views, remember that my previous post is me trying to express why I personally dont find the Flame Haze views as "weak" as you do. I dont deny that Yuji has the stronger case in this situation but I wont go as far as to claim the Flame Hazes reasons are dumb. I guess it all boils down to our own views on what is right like I said before. InfiniteDestiny said: Your view on Flame Haze's and humans was interesting; so would you say that distaste is jealousy? since humans (well most anyway) have the lives Flame Hazes have lost and can never regain, even an ordinary life might appease to a Flame Haze, yet since they can't have it they hate them for it? I suppose Margery just gave off a bad example, her killing that little Flame Haze last season didn't help her cause either; it just appears that they are truly selfish; like they forgot what it means to be human (don't misunderstand, humans can be SELFISH as hell, but what i meant was other things such as emotions and such). I think you misunderstood, I didnt say they were jealous. The reasons why a flame haze would look down upon a tomogara would come from the hatred they harbour for them in general. I mean they became flame hazes BECAUSE their kind destroyed things important to them as humans. Its like early Margery who went around killing all denizens due to her hatred. The poor flame haze that died last season was pretty much used as a decon that allowed Synoday and Margery to retreat...she was not going to let some kid put her life in dander before getting her revenge. InfiniteDestiny said: As for the whole conversing and trying to talk things over; if The Flame Hazes gave a white flag and no i don't mean surrender their whole army so you can slaughter us, but send a "representative" like Shana to talk with Yuji, then that's one way and I'm sure there are many others; i guess my point was that they showed zero interest in such a conversation, they didn't care about Yuji's side from the get go. Also i don't think they attacked Outlaw before he merged since; its implied he merged at the end of last season when he "chose" Shana before he left. Check season 2 episode 17, Synodai was already ambushing Outlaw offices since then. As for trying to talk things over...again I dont think it would work, even if you sent Shana. Yuji's words and actions throughout the season have made it clear that he is not going to change his stance, he is being as stubborn as Shana is right now and some of the older Flame Hazes know this (like Sophie). Lets say that they do get to talk, the whole point would be trying to find some kind of common ground between both sides, but as I said, Yuji and Bal Masque are hellbent on carrying this out the way they planned for all of these years without any modifications. InfiniteDestiny said: Also wouldn't you say that Shana's approach is as the SoF put it "naive", i mean she is fighting him for the reason you gave to prevent a possible disaster but she doesn't even know what she wants after that, its like i mentioned, they are looking so far ahead to the potential future without even giving care to the messed up present; Lets say they beat Yuji, everything goes there way; what do they do go straight back to their eternal war like nothing happened? No you are right, snake mentions it himself...her views sound like a fairy tale and he does not accept it. But also think about it the other way, Centerhill also said that he cannot agree with the views of a "naive" god that thinks he can create an innocent new world and keep it stable forever. As for remaining in this eternal struggle...well being a "protector" of the status quo entails that radical change is not welcome either. In this case the problem comes from the core definition of what a Flame Haze is so I cannot really argue against it. Again, im just trying to put their perspectives into a clearer light even if I know they are flawed at times. InfiniteDestiny said: War is fought for gain by the initiators; this i can agree to however; would you say the "protectors" are protecting humans and existence or their own sense of worth and perhaps even there pride? There is no doubt that there are people like that, but that is not the case for any of our current flame haze protagonists since they are all clearly fighting for other reasons now. |
| I see why everyone is siding with the Denizens as I am too. But what if Yuji's own intent is different from the Snake of the Festival? What IF he actually wants to just trap every Denizen in there and send them to oblivion? And if not him the Snake of the Festival's intent is to do just that? Or what if he DOES create this new world but something/someone destroys it in the process? Killing all of the Denizens. What would happen then? o_0 |
| "Ogon’ po gotovnosti!" |
game8910 said: I do agree with your "thousands of years of paradise is better than an eternity of crap" views, remember that my previous post is me trying to express why I personally dont find the Flame Haze views as "weak" as you do. I dont deny that Yuji has the stronger case in this situation but I wont go as far as to claim the Flame Hazes reasons are dumb. I guess it all boils down to our own views on what is right like I said before. I suppose my reasoning for not being as open as you are to both sides is because of it appears that all Flame Hazes are as "old fashioned" as you said and stubborn as Sophie, and Shana isn't helping matter by being naive with her concept of a resolution. game8910 said: I think you misunderstood, I didn't say they were jealous. The reasons why a flame haze would look down upon a tomogara would come from the hatred they harbour for them in general. I mean they became flame hazes BECAUSE their kind destroyed things important to them as humans. Its like early Margery who went around killing all denizens due to her hatred. The poor flame haze that died last season was pretty much used as a decon that allowed Synoday and Margery to retreat...she was not going to let some kid put her life in dander before getting her revenge. I guess i did misunderstand, but at the same time i also think it can be perceived as jealousy, because while this may not apply to the Flame Haze's it isn't so unnatural for one to be jealous of someone else having something you lost, its a nasty trait but very common especially since they used to be human. I also see your point about Margery, but at the same time i find it ironic that she is mad at Yuji (it was in the dialogue last episode, i forgot word for word what she said though) when she was the one who was ignorant the whole time. game8910 said: No you are right, snake mentions it himself...her views sound like a fairy tale and he does not accept it. But also think about it the other way, Centerhill also said that he cannot agree with the views of a "naive" god that thinks he can create an innocent new world and keep it stable forever. As for remaining in this eternal struggle...well being a "protector" of the status quo entails that radical change is not welcome either. In this case the problem comes from the core definition of what a Flame Haze is so I cannot really argue against it. Again, im just trying to put their perspectives into a clearer light even if I know they are flawed at times. You are doing a much better job than i could at putting their perspectives to light, but even with light as bright as the sun you said it yourself its sometimes flawed which is what i think applies here, Shana is way too naive; If Yuji is an optimist for his plan for paradise, than Shana is naive for thinking she could come up with something better by defeating him. The problem here for me is that it appears like she can't give actual reasoning like Yuji did this entire episode; so instead she figures if i win i'm right... kinda like what Yuji said this episode; the winner gets what they desire. game8910 said: There is no doubt that there are people like that, but that is not the case for any of our current flame haze protagonists since they are all clearly fighting for other reasons now. I would have to disagree with this one; last episode they gave practically no reason in a episode dedicated to revising their "reasons"; what i made out of it was "we are too deep into this fight, so we can't back out now"... ya that sounds nice and all, but it really doesn't do to well for reasoning which should be able to stand on par with Yuji's reason, in terms of resolve i think its a no contest, since i view their reasons as shallow. Shana may be the only one with a reason, granted her reason is naive but at least it still exists. |
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| Well, this looks like fun. As much as I like Yuji's good intentions, I err on the side of caution. And that's just me. If I were charged with protecting the balance of a universe, I'd probably opt to strike prior to anything bad happening, given the history of the PoE-consuming denizens. Maybe it's just me but while I trust Yuji personally, I do not trust the majority of the Denizens under his command. Even in this episode he already shows a level of mistrust of them that I think is a red flag. What Yuji is doing is satisfying the desires of his subordinates ... sure, that's great. Give them all the free-flowing PoE that you want in some alternate world that may or may not have human copies in them. What are they going to do with this power of existence? As far as I recall, Denizens only expend Power of Existence while outside of their own dimension, which is one of the reasons they seek more. But we've already seen what entities can do with power of existence: it's manifested as ... well, power. If you throw a bunch of power-hungry denizens into a pocket universe where they can all consume as much as they want, they'll probably end up in a state of perpetual war. One of the things that bothers me about Yuji's plan is that even if he can bring these Denizens to the other world, who's to say that they wouldn't end up coming back? The Denizens by nature are a curious folk, and unless a path is permanently and unfailingly closed (which I doubt is possible considering how everyone just seems to be warping to and fro from worlds and whatnot this season), it would only take a few rogue Denizens to screw up Yuji's entire plan. Some crafty Denizen might just meander back to the human world in order to enjoy the comforts of being availed as a true god rather than being the equal of countless other denizens in a world full of freeflowing PoE. What would make this worse for the Hazes remaining in the human world is that these rogue Denizens would probably be unfathomably powerful after soaking up in the utopia PoE rays for a few thousand millenia. |
| This episode reminded me why I loved the Shakugan no Shana series so much. Unfortunately its coming to an end soon... :( |
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| Ciddypoo pretty much explained the potential clusterfuck right here, wait didn't this same situation but on a elevated level happen in Fairy Tail? But if a situation like that did happen wouldn't the Flame Hazes in the eternal POE realm be just as powerful? And more saner i might add. |
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| I dont understand a thing =D :D =D :D =D :D |
| Back when I saw Shana 1 and 2, I thought the Flame Hazes were the good guys and the tomogara the bad guys. Now, all of it have changed. Honestly, each episode the Flame Hazes appear to be more villains in my eyes. Why can't they just accept that the Tomogara go to Xanadu?; why can't they at least have a conversation with Yuuji/Snake of the Festival?, only fighting, fighting and pointless deaths. And the 3 new gods of this episode were boring and dull, like the nun. |
| I'm curious as to why everyone has only warm fuzzy feelings for Yuji's plan. He's stepping on fingers and toes to get what he wants. He is still an anti-hero at best, and he's walking that line where he has to really decide whether ends justify means. Bal Masque had been attacking Outlaw outposts all over the world prior to the start of the season. We even see the Shanghai part get wrecked. Yuji goes to have the 'conversation' with Shana and co, attacks and disables Wilhelmina and Margery, then tries to force Shana to join him. When she declines, they fight. In the end, Shana ends up kidnapped, Alastor is taken away, and Margery is in a coma. Then the Hazes find out that Yuji is amassing a huge army of Denizens that begin to attack, leaving their homebase mostly unsecured. So, where is the part where I'm supposed to just have another talk with Yuji and see if we can iron out differences? The Hazes and Yuji are both diametrically opposed, and as much as Yuji wants to call stubbornness on the Hazes, it goes the same way. Shana didn't want to have anything to do with Yuji's plan in episode 4 and look what happened to her -- Alastor taken from her, treated like a doll and attacked by Hecate. Yuji will not be able to control all of his little minions forever. All of this nice-Yuji stuff also hinges on the assumption that Yuji and the Snake of Festival are actually separate and that Yuji's persona still even exists. Obviously there's parts of him here and there since as a Torch he would've been forgotten if his PoE had completely extinguished but ... hey, what if the guy really was possessed by the Snake? He wouldn't be able to tell. That's not something I'd wanna gamble with given all the crap that he's done this season. His activities aren't all sunshine and rainbows. He has funnel-vision just like the Hazes, but he's starting more fires than he's putting out at the moment and will continue to do so in the near foreseeable future. |
| Well, all the fighting would stop if the Tomogara went to Xanadu but for some strange reason the Flame Haze don't want that. Oh, and the conversation with Shana and Yuuji was interrupted by Margery and Wilhemina. |
| This pretty much sums up what i feel ( hope it doesnt spoil anything) Sure they have every right to fear this insane plan the snake/yuji has. They've been fighting for so long that they see no other way. Thats why yuji is practically an extremist right now. And i feel this extremist to be just. |
ArkychanFeb 4, 2012 4:39 PM
| "How electrifying" |
Arkychan said: the final light novel reveals Stop drop and roll. Or at least put a tag before everything else. I stopped reading right there. |
| This anime is starting to feel more like Darker than Black: Gemini of the Meteor with the way things are progressing. |
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Arkychan said: This pretty much sums up what i feel ( hope it doesnt spoil anything) Thanks for posting that. I already knew how the novels ended thanks to some lurking on animesuki but didn't understand well why the Flame Hazes were so stubborn. |
 I like when Tanaka opens his eyes. Anyways, great ep as usual.. looking forward to the next ^-^ |
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Linkark07 said: Well, all the fighting would stop if the Tomogara went to Xanadu but for some strange reason the Flame Haze don't want that. Yuuji's goal is to create a copy of the real world where all denizen will be 'exiled' to. This copy will be free of flame haze as flame haze are human linked to tomogara that stay in Guze, it is then impossible for Yuuji to create a link between the copy of a flame haze and the tomogara he/she is normal contracted with. In return this is one of the flaw with the scripting as a complete copy shouldn't be able to be made if flame haze never existed since how they influenced the world's history in the shadow for ages. Denizen and humans will lives together, tomogara won't have to eat human since there will be as much power of existence as they want in the air. That truly sound good but this got flaw which give good reason to Shana for wanting to stop it. Yuuji's plan imply that human and tomogara will be able to live together in harmony. Even if things go well for a while there is bound to be conflict between human and tomogara in the long run. (Going to refer to flame haze as FH from now on) Xanadu will be situated between the FH world and Guze, if Xanadu is unstable it will then dramatically affect both the FH world and Guze and FH will have no way to do anything as FH will not exist in Xanadu. Legitimate reason for FH side : In present time FH have a mean to protect the balance and the world. Yuuji promise peace in Xanadu but if he lose control of it and the balance is endangered then the FH world, Guze and Xanadu will get destroyed without either Guze or the FH being able to act. Also is it morally right to clone a world? In our world cloning is morally debatable so why wouldn't it here? People that say that Yuuji and the FH should talk definitively didn't get something straight, something that was clear at start but was forgotten with this season: The tomogara ain't friendly. Remember how tomogara were before Yuuji actually took the king position? Tomogara feed off human and enjoy it, the only reason they stick with Yuuji and stoped eating human is because Yuuji promised them something much grander. Even though Xanadu coincide with Yuuji's wish, it is to say that this is not the reason why the tomogara listen to Yuuji. Most tomogara do not wish for a world to live in peace with human, they want power of existence and the freedom of doing whatever they want. Yuuji trying to make a deal with FH could be very badly seen on his side and he could lose the authority he gained. I understand Yuuji, if I were in his shoes I would probably do the same. Xanadu might lead to the world's end but the world's end will happen eventually even without Xanadu's creation. Xanadu promise to give a temporary solution to the problem which they could be working on while it last. I'm siding with Yuuji but I'm understanding the FH's worries. The problem is a lack of communication which can't be solved due to the position both party are. Sweet another tl;dr on me. |
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| The final battle is close, good episode. |
| Go go Yuji. |
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| Just guessing Yuji is really just bullshitting. He's just sacrificing himself to get rid all of this denizen stuff cause he knows that Shana can stop him. |
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| Dat Tanaka eyes. |
| My Guitar Covers: Playlist I CAN ALWAYS SHOW MY EVERYTHING TO YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUU |
| Best episode so far. Yuji better win |
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| Good episode. I prefer these development episodes more than the fighting episode to be honest. Also too much big posts in this topic >_>. The pros and cons of Yuji's world are simple. Don't know why you guys are making huge posts about it. lol New world pros and cons PROS: Lots of powers of existence to live off so human consumption is not needed. CONS: Bad guys "might" still hunt humans, creating unbalance again. NOTES: Humans will be cloned in the new world. Arctic_Wolf said: I like when Tanaka opens his eyes. Anyways, great ep as usual.. looking forward to the next ^-^ LOL. |
| awesome episode go Yuji!!! can't wait for another war o_O! |
jahern1 said: Centerhill is spelt Centrehill everyone. Both spellings are acceptable. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
InfiniteDestiny said: Another key thing was actually mentioned by a Flame Haze (forget who) Flame Hazes fight for their own (selfish) reasons, like Margery's revenge and such, they have no such noble desires as protecting humans, it has been seen many times that they view them as inferior beings even though they were once human... Saying that the Flame Hazes are inferior beings reminds me of what Shana said to Yuji very early on in the first season. Shana: I'm only a flame haze. Nothing more. In a way I'm the same as a torch. Yuji Sakai: Why do you keep saying only. Just stop it. Shana: Because it's the truth. You're only a torch. And I'm only a flame Haze. Nothing more. The Flame Hazes seem to feel like they're inferior beings, so they need something to make it seem what they're doing worth it. |
Zfish9Feb 5, 2012 11:35 PM
| I really can't believe that the Shakugan no Shana that I loved in the first two seasons is really going in a direction like this and for an ending like this. From episode 1 of the third season I have felt like I am watching a completely different anime from Shakugan no Shana. It just feels so different from what it used to be, and I miss the way it used to be. I am really disappointed in where the series has gone, and I don't know if it can really fix itself. I don't like how I think it is going to end at all. |
| aww to much explanation. my head feels hurt LOL well it's good to know that the remaining 3 Gods is going to fight alongside Shana too. next episode: maelstorm of warfare!!! can't wait to see it |
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| Yuji is certainly a more complex character now that he has merged with the Snake of the Festival, and many of the other characters have had less attention focused on them so we haven't seen much development. Even in the earlier seasons I had some difficulty with how flame hazes had to give up much of their human identity and feelings in order to protect humanity (having a nun-like figure like Sopia as leader just reinforces this impression). I still somewhat prefer their side, but I'm going to try to avoid the temptation of labeling everything as being either good or evil (Who were the villains when Troy fought with Mycenae?). Both sides have their gods, and both sides are following their divine dictates. The power of the story resides in the love between Yuji and Shana (and certainly people have stopped complaining about "wimp Yuji" this season), and the inevitable conflict between them despite that love. I'm hoping for a happy ending (one that allows the love to be realized), but I'm willing to go where the plot takes us. |
Please don't feed the trolls! In my next life I want to collide at the corner with the cute transfer student carrying a piece of toast in her mouth...rodac |
| After this episode, I can say that Yuji is still the same person in a way, like what Yoshida said. He does seem to honesty want to do what he says and doesn't seem to be hiding anymore important details. That's good and all but I am still gunna stick with Shana's side. Tanaka opening his eyes, what a rare occasion lol. It was great seeing those three talk like that, so peaceful and calm, it was just like the past. Final fight between the two is approaching fast, damn these 17 episodes sure went by quick. Every episode this season has been fantastic and well paced. I am really loving this season, always something interesting and epic going on. |
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| The ending of this episode was unexpectedly awesome. |
game8910 said: InfiniteDestiny said: Your view on Flame Haze's and humans was interesting; so would you say that distaste is jealousy? since humans (well most anyway) have the lives Flame Hazes have lost and can never regain, even an ordinary life might appease to a Flame Haze, yet since they can't have it they hate them for it? I suppose Margery just gave off a bad example, her killing that little Flame Haze last season didn't help her cause either; it just appears that they are truly selfish; like they forgot what it means to be human (don't misunderstand, humans can be SELFISH as hell, but what i meant was other things such as emotions and such). I think you misunderstood, I didnt say they were jealous. The reasons why a flame haze would look down upon a tomogara would come from the hatred they harbour for them in general. I mean they became flame hazes BECAUSE their kind destroyed things important to them as humans. Its like early Margery who went around killing all denizens due to her hatred. The poor flame haze that died last season was pretty much used as a decon that allowed Synoday and Margery to retreat...she was not going to let some kid put her life in dander before getting her revenge. I love reading these long discussions, I hope you don’t mind. But I have a question that’s been bugging me since I started watching Shakugan no Shana (I started watching is in dub for the first season and have as of yet not seen the first season subbed- so I might have missed it. As I said, I’ve been wondering about this for a while now and the part of the discussion I quoted above made me think of it again. Since it seems to be fairly mandatory for a Flame Haze to be created because of the reasons stated above, how did Shana become one? She seems to have grown up” being raised by Wilhelmina -(Mostly)- and I don’t ever remember it being stated HOW she became one. Likewise, Wilhelmina seems to be a mystery in that respect. Neither seems to have been harboring the same kind of hatred/distain as most flame hazes. They dislive the denizens as most do- but it seems different- Like they were told to fight against these beings and trained to think about them a certain way. But neither seems to really hold a personal reason (As far as I can see) for hating them. And to an extent, Shana has never seemed to hate anyone per-say, -(in my opinion anyway). It’s like it’s her job to feel this way and to kill them, so she does. (Hope I’m making sense I’m tired ^^; ) Has it been said in the manga or light novels how she became a flame haze? I mean.... was she human or born a flame haze? If so, who were her parents/creators? Most flame hazes seem to maintain their anger, hatred and memories of their death, and the life they had as a human before that (I’m going by what I’ve seen from Margery and one or 2 other’s as the series has progressed mind you). Sorry if this question seems out of place, but I had to ask after seeing your comments. Please put your answer in a spoiler tag or contact me on my profile so that no one gets angry at being spoiled. I’d just really like to know... |
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| Episodes 17, too much talking, no action scene.. -_- Waiting again for the next episodes.. XD |
| Awesome EPISODE! Yuuji's side of the argument seems justified. You need sacrifices in war. And in war no one ever listens to reason; let alone to the 'other side' unless they win. I really don't understand why the Flame Haze's HAVE to fight and what even started this whole WAR between Flame Haze and Tomagara. To me to the tomagarra seem like prey for the Flame Hazes and only fight to survive as they need the power of existance to live. Tomagara seem like animals in the wild which need to feed to survive but are locked in a cage Flame Haze seem like hunters which are just out there to kill because they think these 'animals' by default want to kill them; And at the same don't want to release them into a safe location where they are completely disparate from each other because of the fact that they still might kill SOMEONE on the way |
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| Am I the only one that kind of hopes that all the main characters just die or that's what will happen? Also, am I the only one who thinks that Yoshida will die as well? |
SolidSnakeUS said: Am I the only one that kind of hopes that all the main characters just die or that's what will happen? Also, am I the only one who thinks that Yoshida will die as well? I only hope Yoshida will die, but alas i do not see that happening....Although if i'm not mistaken Yoshida has to be sacrificed for Yuji's plan to continue. Anyway, i think it would be interesting if something happened, and Shana ended up having to materialize Alastor, and Yuji having to sacrifice something to save her too (Even though the chance of summoning Alastor killing Shana is relatively low considering season one). I've been back and forth this whole season, siding with denizens then the flame haze, etc. It's really annoying that Shana and Yuji have to keep fighting each other =/....And i'll never forgive that Nun for killing Decarabia, he's one of my favorite characters this season, and it sucked to see him killed off. I liked the episode, but i really dislike Yoshida is getting some screen time now.....Was so happy because this season she barely got any..../sigh, guess it's ok though since Yuji and Shana already confessed to each other. Also someone stated that Shana finally said she loved Yuji....That statement confused me seeing as it was Yuji we were waiting on, we've known Shana loved Yuji since season one. Unless you mean her confessing to Yuji, then i see what you mean. |
| Summon Pheles and stop pussyfooting around it... once you come to your senses that is. |
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| yoshida you are a FUCKING IDIOT im calling it now, she dies, i hope to god she does PLEASE GOD LET HER DIE |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: yoshida you are a FUCKING IDIOT im calling it now, she dies, i hope to god she does PLEASE GOD LET HER DIE I agree |
reve said: windeen-windy said: Has it been said in the manga or light novels how she became a flame haze? I mean.... was she human or born a flame haze? If so, who were her parents/creators? Thank you for answering.... |
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| I Really like the 3rd season but this episode just shouted @ me " PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE ! " . I totally dont understand why he never really spoke to Shana and why he suddenly disappears @ the end of season 2. I mean, come on , its just so idiotically to think " Hmmm, they will probably not understand me so lets just start and fight all of them." . I hope he gets some kind of mind controlled otherwise hes just narrow-minded and really selfish. Its like the question of sustainability in the current world. One say/Sakai : "Lets push the problems further away and let the other generations deal with it " , and the other/Shana say " We should solve the problem now !". I definitely support Shanas way of thinking . |
いのり ＜３  |
| Wow, this was the best episode so far. Why the hell was this not the first episode? Everything was explained nicely. You'd think they would have just done this from the start and the anime wouldn't have been a trainwreck. Yuji was being more Yuji-like for once and his ideals made sense. The bad guys now come across as the good guys even more than they did before. Stupid flame hazes, I really hope they lose. This is what SnS 3 should have been. But it came in 16 episodes too late. |
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| Best episode so far in my opinion, next episode things will start. |
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page. |
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