Forums

What the hell?

http://myanimelist.net/people/15205/Hatsune_Miku

So now programs are not only "characters", but also "people". I see. What is next, put Vocaloids as MAL moderators?

Are you kidding me? Putting a program on the same level of living (or deceased) people is is not funny in the slightest bit, only retarded and offensive.

I cannot understand why such non-characters are allowed to be in MAL's database in the first place. The character database is supposed to be only for anime/manga characters, am I wrong? Something isn't working well, then. Programs are fine but only if they're Vocaloids (since Hatsune Miku is allowed but I don't see Window's OS-tan anywhere), doujinshi are forbidden and yet we have Touhou, and Black Rock Shooter, which is born first as an illustration and then as a song, is on MAL as well, despite artbooks not being allowed. Makes a lot of sense, yes indeed.

http://myanimelist.net/manga/3446/Maker_Hikoushiki_Hatsune_Mix
Yes, moe mascots of a company's product, not characters created along with an anime or manga. Keeping such non-manga and non-anime on MAL is even worse than removing any "non-official" doujishi (lol).

Hatsune Miku is the sample of a real person's voice, no?

http://myanimelist.net/people/504/Saki_Fujita

Then the possible solutions are two:
1- Listing the original voice, Saki Fujita, as the actual singer of the songs "sang" by Hatsune Miku (same goes for all the other Vocaloids) and specifying "as Hatsune Miku/original source/inspiration/etc.". This is perfectly feasible to do, as when submitting a theme song performance there is a nice little blank space called "with details", where such clarifications should go.
2- Remove Hatsune Miku & Co., along with all their manga and anime, from MAL.

"She" is a synthesized voice application which has been created by a company, not born from a woman.
No need to say that "she" clearly does not belongs here.

Not sure about this, but I do have some problems with having Hitler on MAL.

I disagree with her being listed as a person but it doesn't matter to me.

Yes, that's another one who shouldn't be on a site about anime and manga. Especially since he isn't listed as a character, but as an author. Hitler wrote a manga? Orly? When, during the breaks between a Jewish slaughter and another? >_>

I don't care about Vocaloids neither, but I do care about having a more coherent MAL database.

She had some Music clips that she sang and are listed on MAL
And you can't add music roles to characters
Only people can

"She" didn't sing anything. A piece of software using a real person's voice did.

I completely agree with OP. Miku shouldn't be listed as a person, neither she should have any roles or theme song performances.

"She" is supposed to be Saki Fujita because Hatsune Miku uses her voice sample as Rena said.

We know it's not an ideal scenario but let's face it, the people feature hasn't been exclusively for people in a long time. We have companies, bands and now vocaloids listed under it and we're looking at moving producers to it as well. It's a useful catch-all for anything we can't fit anywhere.

Miku's entry serves the purpose of listing all Miku music videos in one place and will stay. We won't accept other vocaloids though, unless there's a reason for it.

Yeah... except that bands & companies are made of people. Vocaloids aren't people, they are softwares. :-| The "people" feature is called "people" for a reason, I suppose, otherwise you might as well rename it "things" and fill it with everything and everyone, including softwares, mascots, logos, and brands, which have nothing to do with MAL.

Again with the incoherency. Miku is no different from the other Vocaloids, they're all moe versions of programs. Having music videos and manga inspired by softwares is almost the same as having doujinshi involving parodies of anime/manga characters (except the latter has much more sense to be here).
Miku's entry does not have a purpose, as music videos can be under the name of Saki Fujita, the original voice. The solution I've posted is perfectly logical and feasible, even if it pisses Vocaloid fans off. Saki Fujita is a person, Miku Hatsune is not.

Saki Fujita didn't sing any of these songs though.

Again, this is not the ideal solution but it's still better than cobbling something together on Fujita Saki's page or not having it.

It is also for convenience-purposes; there are actually such things as "Miku concerts" that people actually go to.

Also, Saki Fujita did not sing or perform any of the songs. The voicebanks were just sampled from her original voice. She did not sing, nor perform any of the songs. I'm pretty sure she didn't even know about half the songs that were released before they were made public.

Therefore, it would be unreasonable to give credit to Saki Fujita when she did NOT sing the songs Miku performed; instead, you should give credit where credit is due. In this case, the programmers, designers and co. all joined in to produce the electronic Vocaloid songs together.

So what do you propose MAL do? List all the crew members that were involved in the making of Hatsune Miku's songs? Or uncredit the songs completely?

If people had to pick, if someone DID perform the songs it would be Hatsune Miku. Yes, technically, Saki Fujita provided the programs with her voicebank. However, it is also true that the program itself 'sang' those songs.

The character database isn't used for staff positions and other works. There isn't even a way to use it for that purpose as far as I know. New code would have to be added and it wouldn't really make sense to do that for a single character.

Also, as other have said, it would be very out of place to give Saki Fujita credit for all Hatsune Miku songs.

It is noted on Miku's profile page that she is not a real person and that should be enough. Having her in the people database is a rare exception due to her being used on many works.


Off topic, but what do you mean? Human producers can already be added to the database and production companies can already be viewed via pages like this one.

Basically create "people" pages for all the anime producers where we can list all of their works and what they actually did, instead of the mismash of sound producers, licensors and animation companies we currently have. We'd also be able to link their sites, list all of their works on one page, have logos and shit. And you could favourite them as well.

Just something we've talked about and would like to see. I think it would be pretty swell.

So sort of like how AniDB does it. I think that would be a good idea because it is certainly a bit difficult to distinguish producers when there's a lot of them involved.

That would would require a lot of work though since you'd literally have to correct every single entry in the database.

I believe this stems from the fact that some manga series only list production studios for the story credit, thus leading to the need to create individual studios as a "staff member".

Please stay on-topic and non-inflammatory

I think the solution is to put the name of the band or the composer. Miku didn't write those songs, she is an instrument.

Yes but the problem at hand is there isn't one single composer like Ringo Aoba or Beethoven - or even one single company as a matter of fact - and there is also no band 'name'; the closest thing being Hatsune Miku.

Well, obviously it's a long term project :)

I believe that listing Miku in the "People" section is best because otherwise it would all just get to complicated! Songs, anime features, videos, etc that are sung/produced by Miku cannot go under Saki Fujita because she didn't sing them. Saki is a derivative part of Miku, just Saki's voice contributes to her. In the end she contributes no help whatsoever in most Miku songs right? Since they are created by VOCALOID users who are also just a medium for her. I am in no way calling her real! I just think putting Miku listed under the "Person" section is the simplest solution to what would be a tricky situation if she were not. She mainly appears in songs right? Hence her needing a spot in the "people" section since only they can be classified as "Singers" on the MAL database.

Also putting Miku work under Saki's name is an insult to them both AND the people who made the songs with the VOCALOID program. First off it's like saying "Miku is just an autotunned Saki" which she is not. She only has voice samples from Saki, hence her mainly robotic sounding, un-human-like repertoire. Secondly it's an insult to Saki because it's like saying her voice doesn't even sound human and it's hell autotunned, though to particular people it sounds great! (Obviously VOCALOID lovers). Thirdly it is an insult to the people who designed and made the songs with the programs because they are the ones who put all their effort into making those songs! The VOCALOID program is actually that freaking hard to use and make sound well in the end! I applaud people who are good at it!

In the end instead of getting into the hassle of changing the database so Miku can stay a character but also be the "singer" of certain songs, Or mucking around with the listing which can be insulting AND confusing to people who have no idea what VOCALOID is, or getting rid of everything which is just plain foolish since they DO indeed appear in Mangas so therefore they rightly deserve atleast character profiles I think we should just stick to leaving Miku in the People and character section xD

Most people KNOW she isn't a human entity and it isn't really that annoying to people is it? By placing her there we are not saying she is equal in realism or worth to Humans. She's there because HER voice was what was used to create certain songs. Though it is a programmed voice and not real it still is a voice! A human quality in the least! The rest of the VOCALOIDS would not appear as "People" until their voices have been used as either an OP, ED or a part of an OST which I don't think will happen anyway. The only reason Miku got that OP was because she WAS the inspiration for BRS. It would be foolhardy to not use the BRS song that started it all as either the OP or ED for the anime.

I rest my case xD Oh and just for your information Im not a giant Miku fan and obsessed with her and mindlessly trying to protect her virtue of sorts here xD In fact I think I've only got around 5 Miku songs in my music files xD Im just stating my opinion on the matter. Aka to sum everything up: Its EASIER and the most SIMPLEST thing to put her there. Lets stick to easy. Easy is good xD

PS. *cough* I'm a Len fangirl *cough* XP