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Kara no Kyoukai 5: Mujun Rasen Episode 1 Discussion
MyAnimeList.net Forum »» Anime Discussion »» Series Discussion »» Kara no Kyoukai 5: Mujun Rasen »» Kara no Kyoukai 5: Mujun Rasen Episode 1 Discussion

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View Poll Results: Kara no Kyoukai 5: Mujun Rasen Episode 1 Discussion
5 out of 5: Loved it!
 
468 87.15%
4 out of 5: Liked it
 
41 7.64%
3 out of 5: It was OK
 
20 3.72%
2 out of 5: Disliked it
 
4 0.74%
1 out of 5: Hated it
 
4 0.74%
Voters: 537

06-14-12, 3:17 AM

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Verdale said:
ronri said:
randompadley said:
nothing more can be said... this is a masterpiece, just wow! the last 20 minutes I was so engrossed it was like nothing was going on around me! damn, the best movie anime i have watched, and probably will ever watch!


Can't argue with that!
Personally I consider it to be the best anime film I have ever watched even to this day. :)


Forget anime film, this was one of the best pieces of art I've ever seen. This thing makes Inception look dumb. Definitely my favorite movie of the series. Especially the soundtrack, which perfectly synchronizes the mood of the movie with the viewer.


Funny you should mention that, as I actually consider Inception as one of my most favorite films yet this one completely topped it (and pretty much everything else). So I definitely agree with you there!
Modified by ronri, 06-14-12, 3:27 AM
 
06-14-12, 3:26 AM

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Huh strange looks like my post is only visible after a second post. o_O
 
06-14-12, 3:43 AM

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This movie is on par with The Shawshank Redemption and Fight Club.

The execution of the characters and general plot of the story along with it's non-linear format of delivering the story captivated me. I would have to say as for as the highlight of the movie for me personally was the antagonist, he expressed a refreshing taste of philosophy that delved into epistemology and ontology, along with a thirst for the truth which I related with to the nth degree.
 
06-14-12, 4:42 PM

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Citizeninsane said:
I would have to say as for as the highlight of the movie for me personally was the antagonist, he expressed a refreshing taste of philosophy that delved into epistemology and ontology, along with a thirst for the truth which I related with to the nth degree.


I totally agree, it's always refreshing for an antagonist to have a reason for what he or she does, other than "somebody has to be evil". Most antagonists are hard to relate to, probably because they are primarily made to be hated, but Araya was definitely an amazing character.
 
06-15-12, 2:06 AM

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Verdale said:

I totally agree, it's always refreshing for an antagonist to have a reason for what he or she does, other than "somebody has to be evil". Most antagonists are hard to relate to, probably because they are primarily made to be hated, but Araya was definitely an amazing character.


I won't lie, when it comes to personal preferences I actually prefer Lio overall* (hence my avatar), but I can't deny that Araya was such a refreshing take of the "Big Bad" role. I was amazed at the complexity of Araya's perception of his own goals, and it's really a good example of how an antagonist may have had good intentions only to be twisted by their own methods and experiences. Truly a great villain.

Personally, I'm of the position that both Movie 5 and 7 are in a tie for the best film of the series as I actually thought that Movie 7 really captured the essence of the series as it tried to divert from the supernatural premise of KNK and delved deeper into the main characters themselves as well as their final development (which Nasu himself believed to be the main point of the series.)

The only reason I'm easy to lean on Movie 5 as being the "best" is because I consider it to be the best in terms being a piece of film/cinema. What I'm referring to is how the whole film was put together. I love how it was directed, the logic-based narrative structure, how the story-telling implemented the different roles of the characters etc. Now putting those aside, it's funny because for me, the other highlight of the film actually came in the form of a down-to-earth character: Tomoe Enjou.

*
Modified by ronri, 06-15-12, 5:38 AM
 
06-15-12, 6:55 AM

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I completely agree with everything you said, 110%.

I concur that Lio's character and role as an antagonist is amazing, but I personally feel more drawn to Araya and his goals.

Glad to see somebody that shares my thoughts though.
 
06-18-12, 8:31 PM

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Great movie, but I find Alba's uselessness a bit annoying. Isn't he suppose to be a powerful magus?
 
06-18-12, 9:14 PM

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locochicken said:
Great movie, but I find Alba's uselessness a bit annoying. Isn't he suppose to be a powerful magus?


Technically yes but it's basically implied that his arrogance and insanity gets the better of him which is why Touko and Araya are depicted as being more competent. The only thing this movie doesn't show is that in the novel Alba actually tried to fight back against Touko by attempting to set her "cat" on fire using his own spells, but it doesn't work and he gets overwhelmed by it. That's the part in the film where he nearly gets eaten by Touko's "cat" only to be rescued by Araya when he decides to confront Touko himself.

On the other hand, despite Alba not shown to be fighting in the movie (unlike the novel), don't forget that he was also the one who created all the bodies/puppets in the apartment complex, so he deserves a little bit of credit for that. If anything he practically created Enjou Tomoe "body" as well.
Modified by ronri, 06-18-12, 9:18 PM
 
07-08-12, 9:01 PM

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This was clearly above the previous movies for several reasons, most importantly perhaps because of its length. For once there was enough time for a proper plot and development and as a result this is the first one that truly stands alone. In comparison the earlier films now seem like stretched episodes of a series. It reminded me of Satoshi Kon somehow. I still would prefer Perfect Blue over this though.

It seemed like a gutsy thing to do to kill off Touko, at the same time I was afraid they'd try to weasel out of killing one of the good guys. And then of course she returned, only as a crankier version. I wasn't too impressed with the half-assed philosophising either, throw in some Jungian rubbish as a fact and suddenly everything in the world is consistent. Sometimes it's better not to explain things at all.
 
07-09-12, 12:41 AM

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Feorg said:
I wasn't too impressed with the half-assed philosophising either, throw in some Jungian rubbish as a fact and suddenly everything in the world is consistent. Sometimes it's better not to explain things at all.


I'm actually curious what you mean by that, would you care to explain?
 
07-09-12, 4:28 PM

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ronri said:
I'm actually curious what you mean by that, would you care to explain?


It's around time 1:43:30, Touko speaking to Arayan:

"Let me tell you something interesting. There's this thing called the group unconscious that a famous psychologist defined. It's a way of thinking that the pool deep inside everybody's mind is the same. It's the storage of all selfishness in the world. In Buddhism, they call this Arayashiki."

My explanation is rather long so spoiler tags:
 
07-09-12, 5:48 PM

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@Feorg

Ah I get ya, I figured as much. This is more just me now but personally I thought it was an appropriate time to bring it up during that sequence actually. Araya had long forgotten his own reasons for his actions and it was only during his final moments that he was able to truly recall them. Despite his Buddhist origins, Araya's obsession towards his goal has even led him to forget such a simplistic concept, and personally I thought it was that "reminder" of his connection to Shiki that showed how much he really lost his way.

At least that's how I saw it. Personally I just take the Hindu/Buddhist/Daoist concepts presented in the films as they are. By the end of the series, I don't think it's just added for the sake of consistency though, since it seemed like the author truly established the world using those concepts as his basis. Mind you, what I don't mind about the Nasuverse is how it integrates various religious concepts (Christian, Buddhist, Daoist, Hindu etc.) while simply using them as basis to create a uniquely established world.

But yeah, thanks for the reply, I really do appreciate it. While it seems like we may disagree on the necessity of the religious concepts, I myself found that to be an enlightening read (in fact it sort of reinforced why I thought it was appropriately used in the film.) ^_^
 
07-10-12, 6:38 AM

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@ronri

Actually writing that made me appreciate more what they were trying to do. Thinking about the influences I understand better the choices they made. This movie can be counted among works like Evangelion, The Matrix etc. in the way it combines Eastern and Western philosophy/religion. I feel quite ambivalent about it because on the one hand I appreciate the effort to explore these things in entertainment, but on the other hand it usually involves making two fundamentally different thought systems seem similar through simplification. For example, Taoism, Buddhism and Hinduism all have some common ground, but that's no reason to say they are fundamentally the same. One should probably just think that the movie was influenced by certain concepts but wasn't trying to say anything about them as such. The problem of inconsistency only arises if I try to find an overall philosophical message when in fact the concepts might have been used mainly for the sake of the story.

It also occurred to me that the yin/yang symbolism present in the movie can also be used to interpret the Araya/Shiki relationship, like they're two murderous sides of the same coin.
 
07-10-12, 9:55 AM

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@Feorg
Ah that's fair enough. I can see why you'd have mixed feelings with it though. Personally in Kara no Kyoukai's case, I really think it's more that it has simply established its own universe whilst borrowing/referencing concepts to reinforce the the story. It's that extra effort in incorporating such ideas that just shows how much they've thought it through.

By the end of the series what I truly appreciate about it isn't so much how it tries to incorporate such philosophical concepts to give the series some sort of grand appearance, rather it actually gives focus to the internal conflict of its characters in a meaningful way (eg. in Movie 5's case being Enjou Tomoe.) In particular, the final film does this at full force, as it focuses on the conscious decisions that one makes about the way they live their life and how their "Origin" or impulses aren't always what determines their actions. At least that's how I see it anyway.

It's that choice in its direction that allows me to appreciate it as it let me realize that by the end of the series, Kara no Kyoukai is a story focusing on the internal conflicts of its characters with the supernatural premise acting as a support to greatly accentuate these ideas.

Also yes, I do agree with your comments about the yin/yang symbolism as Movie 5 was very heavy on that concept of duality.
Modified by ronri, 07-10-12, 10:03 AM
 
07-11-12, 5:12 PM

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Feorg said:

It also occurred to me that the yin/yang symbolism present in the movie can also be used to interpret the Araya/Shiki relationship, like they're two murderous sides of the same coin.


Definitely.

I think this was the first Kara movie where the Nasuverse actually has a strong presence, at least in one way. The idea of yin/yang is a common part of Nasu's works based on something called Akasha, or the root of all things. One of the primary functions it serves is to balance out the world to prevent a catastrophic and unnatural end. Araya deemed it necessary to corrupt the lives of people and ultimately destroy humanity to obtain his own enlightenment. This resulted in an unnatural balance towards dark which needed to be corrected. This was represented in the film by what is referred to as the "counter-force". Basically, Akasha influenced everyone's actions (namely Mikaya's, Enjou's, Shiki's, and Touko's) to bring an end to Araya and restore order.

Likewise, I believe the primary reason they included the Arayashiki segment was simply to accentuate the idea that Araya and Shiki were two beings made to cancel each other out and restore balance; two halves to a whole equation. By commenting on the term Arayashiki, they not only open up an even deeper philosophical doorway, but conveniently convey the message that they these two were arguably meant to oppose each other.

Sometimes Kara no Kyoukai can come off as pretentious or magniloquent, but I thoroughly enjoy doing research and contemplating the philosophies and questions that these sorts of stories provoke.
Modified by Verdale, 07-11-12, 5:22 PM
 
07-16-12, 6:04 PM

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Mind = Blown
“I’m tired of all the nonsense about beauty being only skin-deep. That’s deep enough. What do you want – an adorable pancreas?”

 
07-29-12, 7:28 PM

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Shiki's laugh was extremely cute. I fell in love instantly.
 
08-05-12, 4:59 PM

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Better than the previous ones but the animations where off and most parts where boring as hell tbh.
 
08-17-12, 12:53 AM

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So Far The Best Movie Of KnK. 10/10
[img]Faggot img BB code.[/img]
 
08-23-12, 8:55 AM

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I feel so sorry for that boy and to think that his parents loved him so much...

Definitively the best movie after the third.
 
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