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Kara no Kyoukai 5: Mujun Rasen Episode 1 Discussion
MyAnimeList.net Forum »» Anime Discussion »» Series Discussion »» Kara no Kyoukai 5: Mujun Rasen »» Kara no Kyoukai 5: Mujun Rasen Episode 1 Discussion

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Poll: Kara no Kyoukai 5: Mujun Rasen Episode 1 Discussion


06-14-12, 3:17 AM

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Verdale said:
ronri said:
randompadley said:
nothing more can be said... this is a masterpiece, just wow! the last 20 minutes I was so engrossed it was like nothing was going on around me! damn, the best movie anime i have watched, and probably will ever watch!


Can't argue with that!
Personally I consider it to be the best anime film I have ever watched even to this day. :)


Forget anime film, this was one of the best pieces of art I've ever seen. This thing makes Inception look dumb. Definitely my favorite movie of the series. Especially the soundtrack, which perfectly synchronizes the mood of the movie with the viewer.


Funny you should mention that, as I actually consider Inception as one of my most favorite films yet this one completely topped it (and pretty much everything else). So I definitely agree with you there!
Modified by ronri, 06-14-12, 3:27 AM
 
06-14-12, 3:26 AM

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Huh strange looks like my post is only visible after a second post. o_O
 
06-14-12, 3:43 AM

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This movie is on par with The Shawshank Redemption and Fight Club.

The execution of the characters and general plot of the story along with it's non-linear format of delivering the story captivated me. I would have to say as for as the highlight of the movie for me personally was the antagonist, he expressed a refreshing taste of philosophy that delved into epistemology and ontology, along with a thirst for the truth which I related with to the nth degree.
 
06-14-12, 4:42 PM

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Citizeninsane said:
I would have to say as for as the highlight of the movie for me personally was the antagonist, he expressed a refreshing taste of philosophy that delved into epistemology and ontology, along with a thirst for the truth which I related with to the nth degree.


I totally agree, it's always refreshing for an antagonist to have a reason for what he or she does, other than "somebody has to be evil". Most antagonists are hard to relate to, probably because they are primarily made to be hated, but Araya was definitely an amazing character.
 
06-15-12, 2:06 AM

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Verdale said:

I totally agree, it's always refreshing for an antagonist to have a reason for what he or she does, other than "somebody has to be evil". Most antagonists are hard to relate to, probably because they are primarily made to be hated, but Araya was definitely an amazing character.


I won't lie, when it comes to personal preferences I actually prefer Lio overall* (hence my avatar), but I can't deny that Araya was such a refreshing take of the "Big Bad" role. I was amazed at the complexity of Araya's perception of his own goals, and it's really a good example of how an antagonist may have had good intentions only to be twisted by their own methods and experiences. Truly a great villain.

Personally, I'm of the position that both Movie 5 and 7 are in a tie for the best film of the series as I actually thought that Movie 7 really captured the essence of the series as it tried to divert from the supernatural premise of KNK and delved deeper into the main characters themselves as well as their final development (which Nasu himself believed to be the main point of the series.)

The only reason I'm easy to lean on Movie 5 as being the "best" is because I consider it to be the best in terms being a piece of film/cinema. What I'm referring to is how the whole film was put together. I love how it was directed, the logic-based narrative structure, how the story-telling implemented the different roles of the characters etc. Now putting those aside, it's funny because for me, the other highlight of the film actually came in the form of a down-to-earth character: Tomoe Enjou.

*
Modified by ronri, 06-15-12, 5:38 AM
 
06-15-12, 6:55 AM

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I completely agree with everything you said, 110%.

I concur that Lio's character and role as an antagonist is amazing, but I personally feel more drawn to Araya and his goals.

Glad to see somebody that shares my thoughts though.
 
06-18-12, 8:31 PM

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Great movie, but I find Alba's uselessness a bit annoying. Isn't he suppose to be a powerful magus?
 
06-18-12, 9:14 PM

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locochicken said:
Great movie, but I find Alba's uselessness a bit annoying. Isn't he suppose to be a powerful magus?


Technically yes but it's basically implied that his arrogance and insanity gets the better of him which is why Touko and Araya are depicted as being more competent. The only thing this movie doesn't show is that in the novel Alba actually tried to fight back against Touko by attempting to set her "cat" on fire using his own spells, but it doesn't work and he gets overwhelmed by it. That's the part in the film where he nearly gets eaten by Touko's "cat" only to be rescued by Araya when he decides to confront Touko himself.

On the other hand, despite Alba not shown to be fighting in the movie (unlike the novel), don't forget that he was also the one who created all the bodies/puppets in the apartment complex, so he deserves a little bit of credit for that. If anything he practically created Enjou Tomoe "body" as well.
Modified by ronri, 06-18-12, 9:18 PM
 
07-08-12, 9:01 PM

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This was clearly above the previous movies for several reasons, most importantly perhaps because of its length. For once there was enough time for a proper plot and development and as a result this is the first one that truly stands alone. In comparison the earlier films now seem like stretched episodes of a series. It reminded me of Satoshi Kon somehow. I still would prefer Perfect Blue over this though.

It seemed like a gutsy thing to do to kill off Touko, at the same time I was afraid they'd try to weasel out of killing one of the good guys. And then of course she returned, only as a crankier version. I wasn't too impressed with the half-assed philosophising either, throw in some Jungian rubbish as a fact and suddenly everything in the world is consistent. Sometimes it's better not to explain things at all.
 
07-09-12, 12:41 AM

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Feorg said:
I wasn't too impressed with the half-assed philosophising either, throw in some Jungian rubbish as a fact and suddenly everything in the world is consistent. Sometimes it's better not to explain things at all.


I'm actually curious what you mean by that, would you care to explain?
 
07-09-12, 4:28 PM

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ronri said:
I'm actually curious what you mean by that, would you care to explain?


It's around time 1:43:30, Touko speaking to Arayan:

"Let me tell you something interesting. There's this thing called the group unconscious that a famous psychologist defined. It's a way of thinking that the pool deep inside everybody's mind is the same. It's the storage of all selfishness in the world. In Buddhism, they call this Arayashiki."

My explanation is rather long so spoiler tags:
 
07-09-12, 5:48 PM

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@Feorg

Ah I get ya, I figured as much. This is more just me now but personally I thought it was an appropriate time to bring it up during that sequence actually. Araya had long forgotten his own reasons for his actions and it was only during his final moments that he was able to truly recall them. Despite his Buddhist origins, Araya's obsession towards his goal has even led him to forget such a simplistic concept, and personally I thought it was that "reminder" of his connection to Shiki that showed how much he really lost his way.

At least that's how I saw it. Personally I just take the Hindu/Buddhist/Daoist concepts presented in the films as they are. By the end of the series, I don't think it's just added for the sake of consistency though, since it seemed like the author truly established the world using those concepts as his basis. Mind you, what I don't mind about the Nasuverse is how it integrates various religious concepts (Christian, Buddhist, Daoist, Hindu etc.) while simply using them as basis to create a uniquely established world.

But yeah, thanks for the reply, I really do appreciate it. While it seems like we may disagree on the necessity of the religious concepts, I myself found that to be an enlightening read (in fact it sort of reinforced why I thought it was appropriately used in the film.) ^_^
 
07-10-12, 6:38 AM

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@ronri

Actually writing that made me appreciate more what they were trying to do. Thinking about the influences I understand better the choices they made. This movie can be counted among works like Evangelion, The Matrix etc. in the way it combines Eastern and Western philosophy/religion. I feel quite ambivalent about it because on the one hand I appreciate the effort to explore these things in entertainment, but on the other hand it usually involves making two fundamentally different thought systems seem similar through simplification. For example, Taoism, Buddhism and Hinduism all have some common ground, but that's no reason to say they are fundamentally the same. One should probably just think that the movie was influenced by certain concepts but wasn't trying to say anything about them as such. The problem of inconsistency only arises if I try to find an overall philosophical message when in fact the concepts might have been used mainly for the sake of the story.

It also occurred to me that the yin/yang symbolism present in the movie can also be used to interpret the Araya/Shiki relationship, like they're two murderous sides of the same coin.
 
07-10-12, 9:55 AM

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@Feorg
Ah that's fair enough. I can see why you'd have mixed feelings with it though. Personally in Kara no Kyoukai's case, I really think it's more that it has simply established its own universe whilst borrowing/referencing concepts to reinforce the the story. It's that extra effort in incorporating such ideas that just shows how much they've thought it through.

By the end of the series what I truly appreciate about it isn't so much how it tries to incorporate such philosophical concepts to give the series some sort of grand appearance, rather it actually gives focus to the internal conflict of its characters in a meaningful way (eg. in Movie 5's case being Enjou Tomoe.) In particular, the final film does this at full force, as it focuses on the conscious decisions that one makes about the way they live their life and how their "Origin" or impulses aren't always what determines their actions. At least that's how I see it anyway.

It's that choice in its direction that allows me to appreciate it as it let me realize that by the end of the series, Kara no Kyoukai is a story focusing on the internal conflicts of its characters with the supernatural premise acting as a support to greatly accentuate these ideas.

Also yes, I do agree with your comments about the yin/yang symbolism as Movie 5 was very heavy on that concept of duality.
Modified by ronri, 07-10-12, 10:03 AM
 
07-11-12, 5:12 PM

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Feorg said:

It also occurred to me that the yin/yang symbolism present in the movie can also be used to interpret the Araya/Shiki relationship, like they're two murderous sides of the same coin.


Definitely.

I think this was the first Kara movie where the Nasuverse actually has a strong presence, at least in one way. The idea of yin/yang is a common part of Nasu's works based on something called Akasha, or the root of all things. One of the primary functions it serves is to balance out the world to prevent a catastrophic and unnatural end. Araya deemed it necessary to corrupt the lives of people and ultimately destroy humanity to obtain his own enlightenment. This resulted in an unnatural balance towards dark which needed to be corrected. This was represented in the film by what is referred to as the "counter-force". Basically, Akasha influenced everyone's actions (namely Mikaya's, Enjou's, Shiki's, and Touko's) to bring an end to Araya and restore order.

Likewise, I believe the primary reason they included the Arayashiki segment was simply to accentuate the idea that Araya and Shiki were two beings made to cancel each other out and restore balance; two halves to a whole equation. By commenting on the term Arayashiki, they not only open up an even deeper philosophical doorway, but conveniently convey the message that they these two were arguably meant to oppose each other.

Sometimes Kara no Kyoukai can come off as pretentious or magniloquent, but I thoroughly enjoy doing research and contemplating the philosophies and questions that these sorts of stories provoke.
Modified by Verdale, 07-11-12, 5:22 PM
 
07-16-12, 6:04 PM

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Mind = Blown
“I’m tired of all the nonsense about beauty being only skin-deep. That’s deep enough. What do you want – an adorable pancreas?”

 
07-29-12, 7:28 PM

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Shiki's laugh was extremely cute. I fell in love instantly.
 
08-05-12, 4:59 PM

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Better than the previous ones but the animations where off and most parts where boring as hell tbh.
 
08-17-12, 12:53 AM

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So Far The Best Movie Of KnK. 10/10

I have a sickness called gettingarousedbyhorieyui'svoice syndrome.
 
08-23-12, 8:55 AM

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I feel so sorry for that boy and to think that his parents loved him so much...

Definitively the best movie after the third.
 
10-06-12, 12:15 AM

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aiNkyy said:
I feel so sorry for that boy and to think that his parents loved him so much...

Definitively the best movie after the third.

Definitely, even though he was only given a brief background and exclusive to this movie, I became very attached to Enjou and his struggles. When he came at Araya, all enraged, I was cheering him on and when he died and tear dropped down... This made is all the more satisfying and epic when Shiki awoke and beat the shit out of Araya...

WHY IS THIS SERIES SO GOOD?!
 
10-06-12, 12:17 AM

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*Bump to fix thread*
 
10-26-12, 10:55 AM

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EPIC!!adjfljerh wf vmcvm,;lajefpioaje[pof ,jaoie,jp[oj,f,fpasj,dosh, fjsfklff

*ehem* Excuse me..

Again, that was epic!! The storytelling, plot, animation (my eyes are bleeding from awesomeness), sound, characters, everything!! 10/10
 
10-26-12, 6:12 PM

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@StormViruz

Glad to see you're enjoying it so far!

As for the last two films, just as a warning it's best to take them more as a short season 2. This is because it acts like a fresh new start again especially after this movie. ^_^
 
11-10-12, 9:06 AM

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It was great but it got me alll confused . 9/10
 
11-14-12, 8:24 PM

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Divy said:
Mind = Blown

'Nuff said.
 
12-17-12, 11:07 AM

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This was so confusing.
 
12-23-12, 7:02 PM

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Up until this point these movies were great. But this one raised the bar substantially. Fucking GREAT.
 
12-26-12, 10:32 AM

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Best mindfuck movie ever.
It look like Ncis episodes.
Everything just up par.
I actully like the relationshp between Shiki and Tomoe.
10/10
 
01-20-13, 1:48 PM

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Damn that was amazing... confusing but amazing! The story and setting of this chapter was absolutely amazing well put, the tension and weird take on time difference made it just perfect!

Really amazing chapter for me the best one yet!
 
04-06-13, 4:03 PM

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That mirror image at the end is awesome.. what a strange but cute way to say goodbye..
 
04-17-13, 1:06 AM

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8/10
It went a little overboard for me.
Not in terms of violence.
 
05-04-13, 8:57 AM

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9.5/10
The story was DEEP. Hell, so deep that I wasn't able to pause throughout. It's a big, big deal here. I would like to give this a perfect score, but somehow, the Tomoe kid wasn't a truly likeable character (yet a character that you'll feel bad for, considering what he's going through) and unexpectedly, less Shiki... but more Touko! Good substitute!
The animation and action scenes. F*cking stunning! Music: very balanced and of high quality.
Overall, easily the best Garden of Sinners film out there. Would love to revisit this again sometime.
 
06-03-13, 4:51 PM

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10/10
Spectacular movie, definitely my favorite Kara no Kyoukai movie so far :)
 
06-23-13, 7:00 AM

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DAMN! this episode.. is really fuchking awesome.. XD
I love it so much.. this episode is most awesome so far I think :3

it is not boring and cool.. I like those bloods and organs in this episode XD yummy! XD

damn! I was shock when seeing touko's heart is destroyed by araya.. :3
if touko was really dead.. I dont know what to say.. I'm really sad..

but I was really cheering when seeing touko is come again to help mikiya XD

seriously in the end shiki was really cool with that sword XD I hope that sword is still exist in the next episode :3

btw in the end shiki was really damn cute XD when she's requesting mikiya's house key XD

and looks like next episode would awesome too XD :3
I cant wait azaka and shiki school together? CMIIW :3

"My name is Kissshot-Acerolaorion-Heartunderblade...... the iron-blooded, hot-blooded, cold-blooded vampire."
 
06-30-13, 11:46 AM

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WOW, this was confusing at first, so watched it again. You really need to focus really well to understand for my case. But overall this is one of the best so far and will watch the rest later on the day. I kinda teared up a little about Enjou and his story.
 
07-03-13, 9:51 PM

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All I can say is that this was a flawless masterpiece.
 
08-08-13, 3:25 PM

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kdog7815 said:
All I can say is that this was a flawless masterpiece.

Can only echo this.
The plot was AMAZING. It was so INTERESTING, HAD MINDFLIPPING TWISTS, and amazing character development.
Oh and the OST was as good as always.
Really did get attached to Enjou in this movie, and when Touko said that Araya made a mistake, i lost it.
Oh and i lost it when she came back into the hotel.
Lost it alot throughout this movie i guess.
 
08-24-13, 5:13 AM

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03:15 no blood on the knife? wth

10:52 KONO BAKA!

25:43 kare wa zonbi o mita

43:43 young Toukochan so cute

SPEECHLESS. 10/10 masterpiece.
Isayama Hajime should be awarded The Manga with The Highest Inconsistencies of Characters' Appearances.
He keeps performing multiple plastic surgeries on those Shingeki No Kyojin characters in a SINGLE chapter.
Yes, I've read up to the latest chapter of Shingeki No Kyojin manga.
Forced myself to read through the kidsketching chapters after the anime's ended. At least from now on, I only have to go through the hell once a month.
Patiently awaiting SNK TV/movie/OVA anime-sequel.
The 2015 SNK live-action movie would probably suck.
 
09-24-13, 4:12 AM

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Finally got around to watching this and this didn't disappoint me. This was fucking AMAZING! I was confused for the majority of the anime but it all made sense towards the end when Shiki came back. This film had really good in-depth writing. I just loved the plot twists, totally caught me off guard. You have to pay attention while watching this movie or else you'll be really confused. The OST was fantastic it really amplified the intensity of the film, love you Yuki Kajiura. Shiki is such a badass, you've got to love her. Tomoe was a really great character, loved his character development and interactions between Shiki and Kokotou. Shiki blushing at the end while asking for a key to Kokotou's house was really cute. :) This is truly one of the best anime films I've ever seen, and a mind-fucked one too. xD
10/10
 
09-30-13, 9:17 PM

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This movie really lived up to the hype I've heard so much about. Amazing animation with an incredible soundtrack and unique story (excluding other Type Moon works). Even though this is the first movie to continue in order of the storyline, it was cool how they kept showing future and past scenes mixed in. I'm still feeling chills from this
-What do you mean life doesn't work like my Chinese cartoons!?
 
11-28-13, 5:47 PM

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I finished watching the whole series, and definitely the 5th one is where it peaked (it went disappointingly down after). Aozaki's badass moment had me whooping, she's my favourite character of the series.

I felt a lot more sympathy for Enjou Tomoe, felt like had a lot to offer as a person and not just a mere character, in one movie compared to Kokutou in seven movies. Hell I was feeling almost teary eyed at the end. This proves that they could definitely introduce and successfully flesh out a character in a single movie. Personally I think Kokutou (and Shiki to some extent) doesn't feel like a "real" person. He's nice but that's about it, hell his sister had more character development and she has zero impact in the story. He's more of a compass than a person.
 
11-29-13, 8:24 PM

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Masterpiece! I only knew about the Kara no Kyoukai movies after watching a short fight clip of Paradox Spiral in Youtube. I realized then that there were 7 movies. I wanted to watch this first but I decided to follow it from the start. So far I really enjoed KnK but Paradox Spiral tops them all. I really love it from the very beginning. The fight scenes were amazing, the background music was superb and the development is really great. I loved Enjou. Never really cared for Mikiya. I really hoped that Enjou would survive in the end. I absolutely loved his confession. I enjoyed his interactions with Shiki and the part where he said that even though he was a fake, his feelings for Shiki were real. Damn! I loved that part! Too bad he died but even so, he died an epic death. So sad for him. Well the cafe scene was heartwarming and overall this was one of the very enjoyable 1 hour and 54 minutes of my life. No regrets! Enjou x Shiki forevah! <3
This is a signature.
 
12-25-13, 3:34 PM

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When Aozaki was brutally killed, I was so sad :( But then, epic shit happen! I really though Mikiya was dead too, getting your head banged like this, it can be fatal.

Shiki with a saber is pretty epic. I like it more than a knife, though the knife is more original.

The paradox were really interresting. All the camera angle were really mindfucking. The building concept was really cool. I didn't understand at first what was it meaning, but the doll concept was clever. It's a tragic destiny, being a doll and not even knowing it.

I though at first that Tomoe was annoying and a bit boring, but in the end, is story was really interresting. Gnawed by remorse, he found comfort in Shiki.

Araya vision of his ideal was really interresting. It's true that not everyone are remembered and honored on the same level. Some people die in a total anonymity. Alba was really annoying though, and the way he squashed Aozaki made impatient of his death.

Seeing Shiki blush at the end was really weird and cute at the same time :P
«Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.»
- Kurisu Makise a.k.a. The Zombie
 
12-26-13, 2:32 AM

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I can rewatch this forever.
So, What do you think is on the other side?
 
01-05-14, 9:01 AM

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Rewatched this too, for the first time. I never grow old to the OST, it's near perfection. :3 And the plot is naturally really interesting with a ton of rewatch value because of the constant jumping in places and time.

Wish there was more stuff in the Nasuverse, I really love the world KnK explores. Shiki is perhaps the most badass female character also, imo.

I never get used to how well Ufotable can animate backgrounds, transitions and fight scenes.
silverwalls said:
yeah, nothing turns me on more than a good pun
 
01-14-14, 7:43 AM

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Damn, what a movie :o

The previous 4 were too short but this one was something else.
Cant wait to see the next one ^_^
"My girlfriend is Pururin, and Pururin only!!!"~ Kaoru Yamazaki
 
01-24-14, 8:52 PM

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This was excellent.

 
02-06-14, 6:42 PM

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It's a strange sensation, I can't even begin to describe what I've just watched, but it all came together and I was able to make sense of most of it. And even the things that didn't make sense added to the wonder and remained beautiful in the unknown. Just like the previous movies I've seen, this had some of the greatest art and animation I've seen and it went a step further with Shiki vs those corpses and the final confrontation with Araya.

Easily a 9/10, now I can see why this is so heavily praised.
Legendzerox said:
Jatts said:
So many butthurt people here, watching a show they don't even like. lol...
Maybe because its anime and people watch anime regardless. Also maybe if you didn't have shit taste, you would be mad too.


^ Why Kantai Collection is objectively bad.
 
02-25-14, 10:28 AM

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What a film.

Animation quality and directing was Godly.
Plot was a bit confusing.
I'll probably re-watch it soon, so I could understand it better.
 
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