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| Never mind, he seems to have left this thread for good so whatever. |
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Fai said: [spoiler]In case of Altria/Arthuria, she has Excalibur - also known as the sword whose attacks have been compared to true magic(there's a reason why in prisma illya , no to mention in FSN ). You know that the kaleidosticks could have done that with any NP.Excalibur has never been compared to True Magic. Excalibur is a mana canon. Jewel Sword is also a mana canon (that works differently as well). How does that make Excalibur similar to True Magic? |
ssjokg said: Fai said: [spoiler]In case of Altria/Arthuria, she has Excalibur - also known as the sword whose attacks have been compared to true magic(there's a reason why in prisma illya , no to mention in FSN ). You know that the kaleidosticks could have done that with any NP.Excalibur has never been compared to True Magic. Excalibur is a mana canon. Jewel Sword is also a mana canon (that works differently as well). How does that make Excalibur similar to True Magic? Its the attack that is entirely dependent on the mana reserve you have, so while as NP its a one-trick-pony, its one-trick-pony that can oneshot stuff. |
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| Wait when did anyone mention Excalibur? *goes to previous page* Oh, you edited your post :| It wasn't necessary to mention it, because what I was talking about are the stuff mentioned in F/Z up until episode 13 (this one). From what is shown in these episodes, one can conclude that "the best" is one of Gil/Saber/Berserker/ and to an extent Rider. The "exposition" didn't focus solely on making Saber look awesome or the best. That's why I found the original comment questionable. Ok now to run away and leave you two have fun, walls of text scare me sometimes... |
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| Hmm, rather weak and unclimatic episode. Caster/Ryuunosuke is by far the worst pair of this war and to have them as main antagonists of the first half is very counterproductive as their defeat won't produce desirable impact. So far, it seems to me that everyone in this anime just runs in its scripted tunnel with predetermined role to the point it's almost obvious. There is no real planning, no clever tactics, everyone just intercepts enemy head-on. It's almost like masters of this war are puppets of their servants, maybe with exception of Kotomine and Kiritsugu (but even those are taken from visual novel). This stands as proof that original FSN did a lot better job with their characterization. Here, I somehow can't relate to those masters. But maybe this is all intentional and this emphasis on Servants and their stories is what matters here. Lancer, Saber, Rider and Archer are all being fleshed-out pretty well and I like those characters. But I really don't know if their wishes and wishes of their masters are worth fighting for, so far this war seems kinda underwhelming to me. Call me a heretic but if I had to compare first half of Ufotable F/Z with first part Deen's F/SN I would say the latter did better job (not to mention visual novel, that's leagues elsewhere). F/Z is good so far but the problem is, it doesn't really stand out. It's almost funny that the best episode for me was Rin's adventure and yet, that was flashback to the past. Whereas in FSN I found many of those interesting moments, namely eps. 2,4,11,12 and 14. Let's hope that the second part will be as mindblowing as to dispel those doubts of mine. |
| ^Ok.....Heretic. Really if we bring characterization to the table, Deen's FSN is miles behind. |
Mich666 said: Hmm, rather weak and unclimatic episode. That's because it's a cliffhangar, not a climax. Mich666 said: There is no real planning, no clever tactics, everyone just intercepts enemy head-on. That's the antithesis of a certain master's tactics. Mich666 said: It's almost like masters of this war are puppets of their servants, maybe with exception of Kotomine and Kiritsugu (but even those are taken from visual novel). There are no puppets, just people who can't see eye to eye. Neither really controls the other. Except that's not true because the masters have command spells. That implies that when they are dragged around by their servants, there is still some degree of acceptance of the situation. Mich666 said: This stands as proof that original FSN did a lot better job with their characterization. I don't see how that works. Mich666 said: Here, I somehow can't relate to those masters. Maybe because they're not "normal" teenagers? Mich666 said: Lancer, Saber, Rider and Archer are all being fleshed-out pretty well and I like those characters. Doesn't this contradict what you just said about bad characterization? |
ssjokg said: ^Ok.....Heretic. Really if we bring characterization to the table, Deen's FSN is miles behind. When talking about characterization, I was talking about visual novel, ofc. Deen was doomed when they tried to adapt all three routes at once and their problem with explaining fundamentals is all known. The thing is, I actually enjoyed what they did (at least up to the ep14) as it was great to relive some moments from novel. I am very curious what Ufotable gives us this year and I am looking forward to see their pacing as putting 100+ hour novel into 13 hours anime is one big challenge. I fear they'll go all dark and serious, cutting all slice-of-life stuff but that's to be seen. fst said: Maybe because they're not "normal" teenagers? You don't have to be a teenager to actually relate to some characters (no to mention I am no longer one). It's more about of how their decisions and thinking are presented to the viewer in way of emotions and experiences to relate to. fst said: Doesn't this contradict what you just said about bad characterization? No, because I was talking solely about masters in that paragraph. I am talking about Servants in next one (and I actually like their characterization, Rider and Archer being the best). But regarding this war's masters - let's face it, from what we actually saw, can you symphatize with anyone? Tokiomi - is just hiding and observing situation Ryuunosuke - is deranged mental that likes killing, nothing else Keyneth - was excessively self-confident mage who sufferred because of his overly bloated ego Sola Ui - is poor mage that got the power. One moment she is head over heels over Lancer and the next one she is breaking Kayneth's fingers. I really don't know who she is, we got no details of her past. Yes, there is some suspicion surrounding her but hey, is that really enough? Kariya - is good character, but he was almost nonexistent in the first half Waver - is boy who still doesn't know what he wants Kotomine and Kiritsugu aside, as those two are just doing precisely what's expected of them based on FSN novel. But I have to admitt they did a good job with Iri (though technically, she isn't master). I'm just saying that with Servants getting most of the screentime, there was little to no time to flesh out those Masters better in other way than just showing their archetypes. I am not saying this is all bad in long term but when you look back on those thirteen eps (as there was three month pause during original screening) you quickly realize they moved almost nowhere. You can say they spent whole first half on building the world and the base for everything that's poised to happen in the second half. They really took their time talking as long as they could before the blowing everything up. The amount of new characters they needed to introduce didn't help either, it only slowed-down overall pacing. The fact that many people liked that is only coming from promise of even greater resolution. The thing I fear is they raised the bar too high. I mean, if they continue to develop those characters even further and if they actually give us some satisfactory conclusion then I would say it was well worth it. But if not, well, then this was just a nice little extra for FSN fans and very long introduction for first time viewers, nothing more. |
| This episode made me grow fond of Ryuunosuke and his servant. They're insane as hell, but they're a pretty cool pair who are not afraid of anything. |
Mich666 said: fst said: Doesn't this contradict what you just said about bad characterization? No, because I was talking solely about masters in that paragraph. I am talking about Servants in next one (and I actually like their characterization, Rider and Archer being the best). But regarding this war's masters - let's face it, from what we actually saw, can you symphatize with anyone? They don't need to be relatable to be interesting to watch, it just makes it hard to care about what happens to them. Which is just as well since it's a deathmatch and you know from episode 1 that most of them will get the axe. Mich666 said: Tokiomi - is just hiding and observing situation Ryuunosuke - is deranged mental that likes killing, nothing else Keyneth - was excessively self-confident mage who sufferred because of his overly bloated ego Sola Ui - is poor mage that got the power. One moment she is head over heels over Lancer and the next one she is breaking Kayneth's fingers. I really don't know who she is, we got no details of her past. Yes, there is some suspicion surrounding her but hey, is that really enough? Kariya - is good character, but he was almost nonexistent in the first half Waver - is boy who still doesn't know what he wants Tokiomi doesn't do much, but personally I find him hilarious, though not due to anything that he does in the first half. If you want to know more about Sola, the novel gives more backstory on her character. But frankly... her motivations are much simpler than that. Waver is probably by far the most sympathetic master in this war. But, for him more so than almost all of the other masters, it's pointless to discuss the merits of his character until the end. Mich666 said: Kotomine and Kiritsugu aside, as those two are just doing precisely what's expected of them based on FSN novel. But I have to admitt they did a good job with Iri (though technically, she isn't master). I'm just saying that with Servants getting most of the screentime, there was little to no time to flesh out those Masters better in other way than just showing their archetypes. It's difficult to have 14 really well fleshed out characters in a 26 episode series. Once the bodies start piling up though, it leaves more screentime to flesh out the ones who are still alive. |
| The only thing I have to say about what you said Mich666, is that Caster Team is by far the best couple in FZ.Sure you can also mention Kirei and Gil or Rider and Waver, but Caster and Ryuunosuke was the best pair since the first minute of the contract.Yes they are crazy bloodthirsty serial killers and aI could add even more to that characterization, but that doesnt change their chemistry. Ryuunosuke's acceptance(for lack of better word) of Caster and Caster's devotion to him is one of the best parts, regarding Servant-Master relationships in the series. |
fst said: They don't need to be relatable to be interesting to watch, it just makes it hard to care about what happens to them. Yes, and that's precisely why I was talking about that. spoiler regarding next two episodes: fst said: Once the bodies start piling up though, it leaves more screentime to flesh out the ones who are still alive. And that's why I am looking forward to next episodes as clash of Kotomine x Kiritsugu worldviews is something that pretty much defines worth of this series. ssjokg said: The only thing I have to say about what you said Mich666, is that Caster Team is by far the best couple in FZ.Sure you can also mention Kirei and Gil or Rider and Waver, but Caster and Ryuunosuke was the best pair since the first minute of the contract.Yes they are crazy bloodthirsty serial killers and aI could add even more to that characterization, but that doesnt change their chemistry. Ryuunosuke's acceptance(for lack of better word) of Caster and Caster's devotion to him is one of the best parts, regarding Servant-Master relationships in the series. I'm afraid I can't see your point here but let's say we have different tastes with this one. For me, the best couples are Waver/Rider and Saber/Iri (yes, she is no master but acts as one) and that's mainly because of their great interactions with each other, those really fleshed out their characters. Yes, Ryuunosuke and Caster had the most understanding for themselves but they actually didn't take this War seriously and in the result they felt bit out of place for me. And I guess their backgrounds could have been done better. |
| I think you are watching this with the wrong mindset. For example the planning part: .And although Tokiomi plans are retarded and give him no real advantage in the war, because he sucks, they are still better plans than just going out at night a la Shirou. Also about "everyone's" fate is FZ.Excluding Kirei and Kiritusgu There is the element of surprise in who survives even if you have read FSN. FZ has nothing to do with other works or fanboys go around spoiling it (irony). [quote=Mich666] fst said: ssjokg said: The only thing I have to say about what you said Mich666, is that Caster Team is by far the best couple in FZ.Sure you can also mention Kirei and Gil or Rider and Waver, but Caster and Ryuunosuke was the best pair since the first minute of the contract.Yes they are crazy bloodthirsty serial killers and aI could add even more to that characterization, but that doesnt change their chemistry. Ryuunosuke's acceptance(for lack of better word) of Caster and Caster's devotion to him is one of the best parts, regarding Servant-Master relationships in the series. I'm afraid I can't see your point here but let's say we have different tastes with this one. For me, the best couples are Waver/Rider and Saber/Iri (yes, she is no master but acts as one) and that's mainly because of their great interactions with each other, those really fleshed out their characters. Yes, Ryuunosuke and Caster had the most understanding for themselves but they actually didn't take this War seriously and in the result they felt bit out of place for me. And I guess their backgrounds could have been done better. My point is that they arent the worst couple in FZ.Unlikeable yes.Most hated ones(except Zouken) yes but not the worst. Bold:Doesnt really matter. Gil doenst care about the war either, but he just happens to have a different sources of pleasure. The background could have been better for everyone, like Maiya who is just Kiritsugu tool in the anime or Sola who is just a out of nowhere yandere, but that doesnt stop them from being interesting. |
| While I feel like a fool for holding off watching this for so long, being a huge FSN fan, I'm so happy I did. Can't even imagine the torture of waiting for the second season with such a cliffhanger. Overall brilliant first half, enjoyed every second of every episode. Not a single disappointment, loved it all the way through! 9/10. Probably 10/10 if it was one full season. |
| A serial killer with an understanding of God. I wonder what the secular world's excuse is. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| What a horrible cliffhanger. Gonna score this after I see Season 2. But for now I don't really see why people hype it better than F/SN, before even seeing S2. Personally I am not all that impressed for now. |
MeritasSep 7, 2014 1:38 PM
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Meritas said: Because DEEN's anime is mediocre and looks like shit.What a horrible cliffhanger. Gonna score this after I see Season 2. But for now I don't really see why people hype it better than F/SN, before even seeing S2. Personally I am not all that impressed for now. The VN is better than F/Z though. |
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| On to s2 |
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| That god stuff were terrible, had to skip it. Meh episode overall. 7.5 -> 8/10 (I had 7 in mind but episode 11 was too good). Decent series so far, has some problems, but might get fixed in the second season. I will watch the second season after a while. |
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| I have seen this series twice and in two different languages, preferred the dub oh so so much, to try and understand and make since of this series. LOTS OF TALKING! LOTS! To me that hurt the execution. Sometimes it was as boring as how Gilgamesh felt about Tokiyomi. I could not take stuff like Saber and Lancer's fight seriously when they make it seem like they were on a date. (Spoiler: Although that gets put to bed much later.) I couldn't really "enjoy" the "Joy" talks between Kirei and Gilgamesh because you have to watch their scenes like a freaking psychoanalyst, but the dub helped greatly in deciphering those scenes. Also, my favorite episode was the Rin focused one. That said, I did understand where a lot of the stuff I missed or misunderstood came and went. Kiritsugu is scared of Kirei because he can't read how Kirei operates like he can the other Masters. Kirei is interested in Kiritsugu because Kiritsugu seems like a death seeker more than a mercenary, but it was Kariya's circumstances that actually started sadistic nature. Tokiyomi is MEANT to be as boring a character as Gilgamesh makes him out to be.Even if he does have some good moments. Also, as focused as I had to be during Kirei and Gilgamesh's "Joy" talks; understanding them made watching the rest of Kirei's development later much more fun to watch. This season is basically the "set-up" season for when crap hits the fan in season 2. I'm kind of surprised the show did as well as it did considering the awful spot they decided to leave the audience at for the six month wait for season 2. Season 1 is the only season I felt I needed to say something about. I give season 1 7/10, Season 2 8/10, and the show totally 8/10. Plug time: To get around some WAY overpriced Aniplex of America dubs remember this: Netflix is your friend. |
iCardsOct 23, 2014 9:24 PM
| I really enjoyed this season. The first episode bored the hell out of me but the pacing improved rapidly afterwards. My friend hyped it up so I was expecting more philosophy and shit. Nevertheless, it was quite amazing overall especially for someone like me who hates watching action and fights. 7/10 although I'm considering an 8/10 but I can't think of any reasons why I would rate this higher. :/ It's probably just my low attention span, but I still didn't understand the rivalry between Kirei and Kiritsugu. And some other things confused me. I'll read it up later. My favourite characters are Rider (lol he and Waver are a hilarious combo), Lancer (mostly bc his backstory and voice actor hnnng) and Gilgamesh who's just LOL in general and sassy. |
MayukaNov 17, 2014 7:27 PM
Aozure said: While I feel like a fool for holding off watching this for so long, being a huge FSN fan, I'm so happy I did. Can't even imagine the torture of waiting for the second season with such a cliffhanger. Overall brilliant first half, enjoyed every second of every episode. Not a single disappointment, loved it all the way through! 9/10. Probably 10/10 if it was one full season. +1 |
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| Welp, that was an odd but interesting way to end the cour. I feel like this cour was more or less about developing Waver and ISKANDAR KING OF CONQUERORS, as well as Ryuunosuke and Caster to a lesser degree, so I'm guessing they'll take the back seat next cour while the other Masters are further developed. Kiritsugu is supposed to be the main character, but how many scenes did he truly get? Hopefully the second cour focuses on him much more. In any case, this first half was utterly amazing and as a considerable F/SN fan fulfilled my expectations and then some. Since the second cour is supposedly when everything comes together, I predict I'll ultimately end up appreciating F/Z even more than I appreciate F/SN. P.S. the dub is fucking fantastic and the dialogue is too amazing for me to have witnessed this in Japanese where I wouldn't truly "get it." Still trying to get used to Kari Wahlgren as Saber though after spending so much time with Ayako Kawasumi. :c |
 ☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
| Completed for the second time the vision of the first season of F / Z, which mean ...! Excellent, although I saw during this fall 2014, the new production studio Ufotable or Fate / SN UBW. Anime that retains its charm due to the drawings of great quality, excellent animations, good scenarios and charismatic characters. Add to this a nice soundtrack. Final episode well managed in the dialogues, which succeeds in the narrative to convey the pathos worthy of the best anime. Final rating of 9/10! |
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| Warning!The following text is not suitable for fanboys,who can´t comprehend any bad things said about their favourite show.Short version : I found F/0 season one shitty. |
SemRomJan 24, 2015 1:13 AM
| So it is shitty because not all teams care enough about some wish?Because they dont have a wish?Not to mention their limitations both as magi and as being tactical. Oh so Saber is gonna win because of the cover? Also you use quotes form ONE ep to judge an entire forum? Building up means being shitty? What does that make Baccano then? And that's why Priests are being dicks to others. |
| FZ despite what Zero secondaries say is NOT about grail war either. It is about characters fucking up. Characters making mistakes, or being stupid or not focusing on their goals enough IS THE POINT because the outcome of this greek tragedy is predetermined. Viewers are expected to expect those people to FAIL and to be interested in HOW. So yes, it is correct whoever said that Zero is an INTENTIONAL Greek Tragedy. It is exactly that. It is a countdown to the event that gives birth to the actual Fate Stay Night storyline and by this point a viewer should already know what that is and be interested in finding out HOW it all plays out. If Fate franchise was a detective thriller, then FSN would be the main part of the movie where characters interact and try to solve a murder, while Fate/Zero would be that flashback near the end that recounts on HOW exactly that murder happened. |
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| Recently decided to start going through this series (starting with Zero) and I'm thoroughly satisfied with this first season. Has some the most gorgeous animation I've seen but the dialogue is equally engaging. |
| Hoping I soak up enough game to play three systems with one controller |
| Inb4 Fai attack about how should've watched SN first. Not that I disagree with him. |
InsertanamehereFeb 7, 2015 11:52 AM
Prodigal_Enigma said: Recently decided to start going through this series (starting with Zero) and I'm thoroughly satisfied with this first season. Has some the most gorgeous animation I've seen but the dialogue is equally engaging. Good choice. Starting with UBW is a bad idea. |
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tsudecimo said: Prodigal_Enigma said: Recently decided to start going through this series (starting with Zero) and I'm thoroughly satisfied with this first season. Has some the most gorgeous animation I've seen but the dialogue is equally engaging. Good choice. Starting with UBW is a bad idea. How? or is it just bait? |
Insertanamehere said: tsudecimo said: Good choice. Starting with UBW is a bad idea. How? or is it just bait? FSN isn't very "introducing" |
xcllnt said: If you start with F/Z you will realize F/SN is some generic harem shit with horrible pacing. That happens either way bruh, nothing can fix that. Vittoria said: FSN isn't very "introducing" F/Z is? |
Insertanamehere said: Vittoria said: FSN isn't very "introducing" F/Z is? If your trying to "get into" the series, I would say yes. But is it the optimal way to watch it? Nope. |
Vittoria said: Nope.Both series introduce what the HGW background is in the first 3 eps.Insertanamehere said: How? or is it just bait? FSN isn't very "introducing" |
| Both explain almost the exact same things at the beginning. I don't understand how one is easier to get into than the other. |
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| I'm big on chronological order when I can help it and since Fate/Zero is a prequel I figured I should start with that. |
| Hoping I soak up enough game to play three systems with one controller |
Prodigal_Enigma said: Well that's not how it usually should be done. You'll enjoy it either way I guess.I'm big on chronological order when I can help it and since Fate/Zero is a prequel I figured I should start with that. |
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xcllnt said: Insertanamehere said: How? or is it just bait? If you start with F/Z you will realize F/SN is some generic harem shit with horrible pacing. Vittoria said: Insertanamehere said: How? or is it just bait? FSN isn't very "introducing" Well said, fellow Kings of Heroes. Much yuetsu. |
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StrayBotato said: Prodigal_Enigma said: Well that's not how it usually should be done. You'll enjoy it either way I guess.I'm big on chronological order when I can help it and since Fate/Zero is a prequel I figured I should start with that. On a serious note though, as long as you come into F/SN with an open mind and don't expect it to be a F/Z 2, then you should be fine. It isn't the ideal intended order though. |
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Prodigal_Enigma said: Recently decided to start going through this series (starting with Zero) and I'm thoroughly satisfied with this first season. Has some the most gorgeous animation I've seen but the dialogue is equally engaging. Not sure if bait or srs..... If serious, genuinely feel sorry for your decision. Vittoria said: Insertanamehere said: How? or is it just bait? FSN isn't very "introducing" Except that it is. FSN is set to slowly introduce the world and the setting. Zero is not introducing. It is recaping the basics it expects you to already know from FSN. ZeroDragon said: StrayBotato said: Well that's not how it usually should be done. You'll enjoy it either way I guess. On a serious note though, as long as you come into F/SN with an open mind and don't expect it to be a F/Z 2, then you should be fine. It isn't the ideal intended order though. IT WILL take away any sort of impact from any sort of big reveal though since FSN narrative expects you to not know them and Zero outright spoils them in first episode alone. Not as big for UBW(barring things like Tokiomi and usual fate spoilers like Saber's identity, Illya's identity, etc). It WILL majorly suck for HF though considering the whole hook for that one will be "Gee I wonder who Sakura is and what is her connection to Rin?" And yeah, expectations. Going from Zero people would expect a death game show with an ensemble cast and a follow up on various plotlines, only to see a show focusing on a single character and most of said plotlines ignored because the viewer is not supposed to know them. So separating your knowledge AND expectations of Zero FROM FSN is a must I'd say. Otherwise bad things happen. |
AhenshihaelFeb 8, 2015 6:24 PM
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CookingPriest said: Not sure if bait or srs..... Okay... |
| Hoping I soak up enough game to play three systems with one controller |
Prodigal_Enigma said: CookingPriest said: Not sure if bait or srs..... Okay... Don't worry, that's just Fai. |
Insertanamehere said: Prodigal_Enigma said: Okay... Don't worry, that's just Fai. Ah. I'll ignore it, then. |
| Hoping I soak up enough game to play three systems with one controller |
Prodigal_Enigma said: Insertanamehere said: Don't worry, that's just Fai. Ah. I'll ignore it, then. He's always needlessly aggressive like that. I also wouldn't have recommended starting with Zero myself, but it can work either way if that's your choice. It might make your F/SN experience.....different, though. ZeroDragon said: On a serious note though, as long as you come into F/SN with an open mind and don't expect it to be a F/Z 2, then you should be fine. It isn't the ideal intended order though. |
InsertanamehereFeb 9, 2015 6:47 AM
Prodigal_Enigma said: This place is frequented by trolls and people who make alternate accounts just to rile people up. Had to me sure, no hard feelings.CookingPriest said: Not sure if bait or srs..... Okay... Insertanamehere said: [/quote]Prodigal_Enigma said: Ah. I'll ignore it, then. He's always needlessly aggressive like that. You sure not confusing me with Fake-kun?: Last time I checked it is HIM who walks around attacking people who state something unresearched. But gotta slander someone who dared to critique anything and not claim ufoubw is perfect. Gotta love the circlejerk. |
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CookingPriest said: But gotta slander someone who dared to critique anything and not claim ufoubw is perfect. Gotta love the circlejerk. But I don't think UfoUBW is perfect? The problem is someone decided to watch F/Z first and made no other comments and you jumped on it and called it bait. |
InsertanamehereFeb 9, 2015 7:04 AM
ZeroDragon said: I expected you to call them imposters.xcllnt said: If you start with F/Z you will realize F/SN is some generic harem shit with horrible pacing. Vittoria said: FSN isn't very "introducing" Well said, fellow Kings of Heroes. Much yuetsu. Insert is an imposter now too btw. |
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StrayBotato said: Insert is an imposter now too btw. those words hurt meh |
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