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Dec 22, 2011 5:10 PM

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She's a shits load better than Ume from Ben-to
 
Dec 22, 2011 6:28 PM

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I like characters that are tough and abrasive like Yozora. But I never felt she was uncaring or heartless deep down. And I definitely don't believe that she dislikes Sena either, just like Kobato and Maria don't truly dislike each other.

Yozora treats all people the same, the difference is only how each person handles it. It's just like how some people are easily offended by sarcasm, some handle it fine without taking offense, and others still can dish it right back. It's just personalities.

Yozora has got a sort of prideful resentment towards being openly nice and friendly. Basically, since she was lonely and without friends, she just convinced herself that she didn't want friends anyway and that she resented all the traits they seemed to have and all the things they seem to do (aka, cognitive dissonance). She makes a point of acting like she believes this too, in order to convince others that she should be envied, not pitied. But she doesn't really feel this way. She's just stubbornly shy about showing weakness or imperfections.



I think some people dislike her because she so stubbornly maintains her act. She never caves in to her emotions, but rather she keeps them bottled up. She acts only as she thinks she should act, not how she feels. So some people see her as a cold-hearted, uncaring, self-serving bitch.

But I don't see it that way. She should be pitied, not disliked. She doesn't dislike the others. She's just putting on the tough girl act so that nobody will even think to give her the pity she deserves.
 
Dec 22, 2011 6:38 PM

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Yozora's very unlikeable because she's simply a manipulative bully with no real redeeming qualities. Of course, there are those who like bullies (or just bully characters), so it's natural she has some fans.
 
Dec 22, 2011 8:08 PM

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If you read the light novels, you'll come to like Yozora more because her character has more depth than Sena. As the story progresses, Yozora will (very) slowly defrost and show her true emotions more often while Sena just becomes more and more of a pervert (even more so than Rika).
A Humble Pawn of the Hakuou Gakuin Seitokaichou, Hinagiku Katsura!
 
Dec 22, 2011 8:22 PM

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legwkio said:
If you read the light novels, you'll come to like Yozora more because her character has more depth than Sena. As the story progresses, Yozora will (very) slowly defrost and show her true emotions more often while Sena just becomes more and more of a pervert (even more so than Rika).


Which I guess is the origin of her infinite amounts of Doujins. It's entertaining actually
"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys
 
Dec 22, 2011 8:35 PM

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GodlyKyon said:
RealScreamer said:
GodlyKyon said:
What? some of the things Sena plays is pretty shameful...... in public


Indeed. But most people don't have a problem with it like they do with Yaoi. I think it is shameful, but it doesn't hurt anyone. So people stress over those types of stuff too much.

Leon-Gun said:
Since someone mentioned Kuroneko, it's nice to also point out that behind Ruri's curtain of anti-social behaviour and abusive language she actually cares for her friends and family (and sacrifices a lot to keep her family stable). She's done plenty of favors and helped Kirino when in need even when saying otherwise. I don't think Yozora has ever done anything for anyone and when she has (like the snacks she brings for Maria) they are just bribes or with ulterior motives.


In saying that, that all happened when the show was ending and Kuroneko had some decent air time, right? Boku is more than likely getting a second season, Yozora will more than likely get development. And honestly, Yozora actually cares for the people in her club, the girl can't express her feelings at all. Come on, she takes the time to tease Sena and Maria, every chance she gets? And even plays games with Sena?? Both are lying to themselves and are friends, they both just don't notice yet. Same goes for everyone else's relationship in the club.

If she really did hate everyone. her words would be more serious and not exaggerated bullcrap.



___
I think it would be better if people just say they don't like Yozora because she's an "Unsociable" person. Coming up with development issues in a pretty "bleh" adaption, "jealousy", "mean" and assumptions that are way off are just extremely silly to me. Especially when this is an a exaggerated comedy with 90% of humor that "annoys" people, in a series that's most likely not finished - with everyone in the cast being flawed.

It's apparently okay for Sena and Rika to sexually harass Kobato, huh? No one says a negative word about it, even though Kobato is obviously scared. I really don't get some people..

Anyways, bleh, just "bleh". Topic got old, discussed so many times and so many opinions tossed over without either side getting it.


Alright, I will just say I hate Yozora because she psychologically assaults people like a bitch, while it's not amusing either.

So it's settled, people mainly are entertained by Yozora or not, that is it. Or else they like her because of her looks.

I guess Kobato's reactions are cute? I suppose Sena is more similar to some fans. I like her. I also dislike Yaoi, but Fujoshi can be repelling.


>I guess Kobato's reactions are cute?

Wut.

I would say the face Sena puts on while calling Yozora stupid while running away is cute.

Yet if it's Yozora it's wrong but if it's full on sexual harassment that makes the younger character scared and makes Sena look like a complete paedophile it's okay?

Some flawed logic you have there... I personally see full on paedophilia through sexual harassment a lot harsher than a few insults.
 
Dec 22, 2011 9:30 PM

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Otsdarva said:

Yozora has continually been cruel to a multitude of characters. I'm surprised anyone likes her at all because poor restraint and hypocrisy aren't valued qualities.

Shinji and Shu are stressful because of their archetype and stereotype. Yozora is disliked because her mash-up of archetype and personality. I only felt sympathy towards her once, and that was episode 1.

She legitamizes bullying by doing it to Sena while she explicitly stated she hates it. Let's not forget about Maria on this one either. this kind of social cruelty makes her hard to be likable because what she is doing and what she says she wants are two different things.

She want friends but refuse to be socially acceptable.
She wants the neighbor's club to be active in public places but refuses to be around crowds.
She wants cooperation but outright makes it impossible to get any from her.

You see, these quirks just make her uncomfortable to watch. While some of her moments are actually teasing (the playful variant.) most often she is either giving Sena or Maria a hard time, or is backsiding any efforts for the neighbor's club activities.


I don't like her for the above. People are free to like her. There isn't a problem. I just find her insufferable. Hopefully me going "I'm" and "Yozora" instead of "This" and "That is" helped with subjectivity.


You pretty much say why i almost hate Yozora existence in the series.

RealScreamer said:
GodlyKyon said:
What? some of the things Sena plays is pretty shameful...... in public


Indeed. But most people don't have a problem with it like they do with Yaoi. I think it is shameful, but it doesn't hurt anyone. So people stress over those types of stuff too much.

Leon-Gun said:
Since someone mentioned Kuroneko, it's nice to also point out that behind Ruri's curtain of anti-social behaviour and abusive language she actually cares for her friends and family (and sacrifices a lot to keep her family stable). She's done plenty of favors and helped Kirino when in need even when saying otherwise. I don't think Yozora has ever done anything for anyone and when she has (like the snacks she brings for Maria) they are just bribes or with ulterior motives.


In saying that, that all happened when the show was ending and Kuroneko had some decent air time, right? Boku is more than likely getting a second season, Yozora will more than likely get development. And honestly, Yozora actually cares for the people in her club, the girl can't express her feelings at all. Come on, she takes the time to tease Sena and Maria, every chance she gets? And even plays games with Sena?? Both are lying to themselves and are friends, they both just don't notice yet. Same goes for everyone else's relationship in the club.

If she really did hate everyone. her words would be more serious and not exaggerated bullcrap.



___
I think it would be better if people just say they don't like Yozora because she's an "Unsociable" person. Coming up with development issues in a pretty "bleh" adaption, "jealousy", "mean" and assumptions that are way off are just extremely silly to me. Especially when this is an a exaggerated comedy with 90% of humor that "annoys" people, in a series that's most likely not finished - with everyone in the cast being flawed.

It's apparently okay for Sena and Rika to sexually harass Kobato, huh? No one says a negative word about it, even though Kobato is obviously scared. I really don't get some people..

Anyways, bleh, just "bleh". Topic got old, discussed so many times and so many opinions tossed over without either side getting it.


I get it, and i know that the character type of Yozora you could like it or not, but i dont really "hate" or "dislike" the character, i think it's ok for the most part except for one tinny reason that really bothers me, she is the "childhood friend"

I know that this show is like 90% comedy and 10% romance, but Yozora fails the 95% of that 10% and thats why i dislike Yozora.

If she wasnt the main heroine i wouldn't care at all, but her character is really underdevelop, apart from creating the club, she does close to nothing as a character in the series just in the final episode they give us a legitimate reason to like her as a heroin wile the whole show is based on Sena and Kodaka getting closer to each other.

But to me she fails as a heroine wile they make me like Sena in spite that i don really like "fan service" characters as main heroines.

And dont bring the LN or manga here, this is for the anime series, if she really get any development on the possible 2 season we'll see that, but, based only in this 13 episodes i dont like her.

Tenchi_Ryu said:
She's a shits load better than Ume from Ben-to


A Brick is a load better than Ume.
 
Dec 22, 2011 10:37 PM

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EvilSniperTom said:
GodlyKyon said:
RealScreamer said:
GodlyKyon said:
What? some of the things Sena plays is pretty shameful...... in public


Indeed. But most people don't have a problem with it like they do with Yaoi. I think it is shameful, but it doesn't hurt anyone. So people stress over those types of stuff too much.

Leon-Gun said:
Since someone mentioned Kuroneko, it's nice to also point out that behind Ruri's curtain of anti-social behaviour and abusive language she actually cares for her friends and family (and sacrifices a lot to keep her family stable). She's done plenty of favors and helped Kirino when in need even when saying otherwise. I don't think Yozora has ever done anything for anyone and when she has (like the snacks she brings for Maria) they are just bribes or with ulterior motives.


In saying that, that all happened when the show was ending and Kuroneko had some decent air time, right? Boku is more than likely getting a second season, Yozora will more than likely get development. And honestly, Yozora actually cares for the people in her club, the girl can't express her feelings at all. Come on, she takes the time to tease Sena and Maria, every chance she gets? And even plays games with Sena?? Both are lying to themselves and are friends, they both just don't notice yet. Same goes for everyone else's relationship in the club.

If she really did hate everyone. her words would be more serious and not exaggerated bullcrap.



___
I think it would be better if people just say they don't like Yozora because she's an "Unsociable" person. Coming up with development issues in a pretty "bleh" adaption, "jealousy", "mean" and assumptions that are way off are just extremely silly to me. Especially when this is an a exaggerated comedy with 90% of humor that "annoys" people, in a series that's most likely not finished - with everyone in the cast being flawed.

It's apparently okay for Sena and Rika to sexually harass Kobato, huh? No one says a negative word about it, even though Kobato is obviously scared. I really don't get some people..

Anyways, bleh, just "bleh". Topic got old, discussed so many times and so many opinions tossed over without either side getting it.


Alright, I will just say I hate Yozora because she psychologically assaults people like a bitch, while it's not amusing either.

So it's settled, people mainly are entertained by Yozora or not, that is it. Or else they like her because of her looks.

I guess Kobato's reactions are cute? I suppose Sena is more similar to some fans. I like her. I also dislike Yaoi, but Fujoshi can be repelling.


>I guess Kobato's reactions are cute?

Wut.

I would say the face Sena puts on while calling Yozora stupid while running away is cute.

Yet if it's Yozora it's wrong but if it's full on sexual harassment that makes the younger character scared and makes Sena look like a complete paedophile it's okay?

Some flawed logic you have there... I personally see full on paedophilia through sexual harassment a lot harsher than a few insults.


uh, no. I am just stating the general census. their interaction give the fans a friendly feeling regarding to Sena rather than her trying to harm Kobato, which Yozora does apparently for fun, or so it't the impression it gives.

Kobato's character is really designed to be cute, so everyone likes her. I guess Sena makes the fans feel the same way she does?

Have you seen in animes where the girls grab each others' boob in the lockerroom? I suppose you can say Sena is like that to Kobato......
"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys
 
Dec 23, 2011 1:32 AM

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^^^ Still, that's not something to defend. I'm sure if it was reality, most of us would be in jail. What would be our excuse? The girl had a cute reaction? lmao...


Sery said:
If she wasnt the main heroine i wouldn't care at all, but her character is really underdevelop, apart from creating the club, she does close to nothing as a character in the series just in the final episode they give us a legitimate reason to like her as a heroin wile the whole show is based on Sena and Kodaka getting closer to each other.

But to me she fails as a heroine wile they make me like Sena in spite that i don really like "fan service" characters as main heroines.

And dont bring the LN or manga here, this is for the anime series, if she really get any development on the possible 2 season we'll see that, but, based only in this 13 episodes i dont like her.


Which is why I don't know how people can judge so quickly and why I use material other than the anime. These 12 episodes IMO, have been nothing but comedy and fanservice. And no, I don't see Sena's pool episode to be "development". She just starts to like Kodaka, nothing else - her character still is a major Tsundere just like after "Yozora's revealing" - she will still be a complete sadist. In saying that. No one really developed. Rika is still a weird pervert, Maria is still a whiny child, Yukimura is still...doing whatever she's doing, lol..etc. Remember, it's not only Yozora and Sena in the running, the other girls didn't have much time either.

Most importantly, of course they had to give a few episodes to Sena, Yozora already has "the upper-hand" in all of this, so no need to make it completely obvious that she's gonna "win".

Shia-Neko-Chan said:
Yozora's very unlikeable because she's simply a manipulative bully with no real redeeming qualities. Of course, there are those who like bullies (or just bully characters), so it's natural she has some fans.



It's natural that most people can understand characters and not just blindly hate them. People liking "bully characters" is silly.
 
Dec 23, 2011 2:11 AM

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RealScreamer said:
. And no, I don't see Sena's pool episode to be "development". She just starts to like Kodaka, nothing else - her character still is a major Tsundere just like after "Yozora's revealing" - she will still be a complete sadist. In saying that. No one really developed. Rika is still a weird pervert, Maria is still a whiny child, Yukimura is still...doing whatever she's doing, lol..etc. Remember, it's not only Yozora and Sena in the running, the other girls didn't have much time either.

I completely DISAGREE!

Development is the GROWTH of a character!

And we DID see the growth of Sena, she started out as a conceded Oujou-sama that ALWAYS has to have it her way.

The pool episode between Kodaka and Sena is important because not only does Sena begin to like Kodaka but she learns that she can't keep acting so arrogant towards other people. Kodaka tells her that it was HER FAULT those guys picked on her because she wouldn't stop acting so damn smug around them.

BY NO MEANS is Sena a "Major Tsundere", she might hide some of her feelings (like most people do), but she doesn't hate Kodaka, she doesn't hit him for no reason, and for the most part she gets along with him very well.

For example the episode where Kodaka stayed over at Sena's house, she wasn't complaining nor was she acting Tsundere by calling Kodaka a "Baka" or other nonsense.

In fact in that episode we see Sena's development again, she might be rich and somewhat conceded but by inviting Kodaka over and wanting him to stay overnight, she is displaying more and more feelings of affection even if they are indirect.


As for Yozora, we FINALLY see development, but not until the very last episode.

I truly hope we do have a season 2 because I really enjoyed this anime, and I would love to see what happens next. And hopefully Yozora does become a better character.

But as for Season 1, Yozora was NOT a good heroine nor was she very likable, at least not until the very last episode.
Modified by ichigo03, Dec 23, 2011 2:16 AM
 
Dec 23, 2011 2:35 AM

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ichigo03 said:
The pool episode between Kodaka and Sena is important because not only does Sena begin to like Kodaka but she learns that she can't keep acting so arrogant towards other people. Kodaka tells her that it was HER FAULT those guys picked on her because she wouldn't stop acting so damn smug around them.

BY NO MEANS is Sena a "Major Tsundere", she might hide some of her feelings (like most people do), but she doesn't hate Kodaka, she doesn't hit him for no reason, and for the most part she gets along with him very well.

For example the episode where Kodaka stayed over at Sena's house, she wasn't complaining nor was she acting Tsundere by calling Kodaka a "Baka" or other nonsense.

In fact in that episode we see Sena's development again, she might be rich and somewhat conceded but by inviting Kodaka over and wanting him to stay overnight, she is displaying more and more feelings of affection even if they are indirect.


Tsundere's don't actually hate the guys, they just don't like telling the truth to them most of the time, and become embarrassed, which is Sena. Her obvious background of being rich makes her oblivious to "action" - she only uses her tongue to "hit" where it hurts, to males.

More over, Sena likes Kodaka, so she wants him to stay, it's obvious, so duh - it's also obvious due to Kobato.

I just don't see it as a "huge" development like everyone else does, she still acts like an "ojousama". Also, her deal with guys isn't the issue. It's with women. Which is why the first thing she says in the beginning is she wants friends that are girls. Nothing developed in that area, so I don't see it as such a big deal when her main goal is still the same.

More over, I see a big debate coming with this Sena opinion I have, so I'll leave it off here, as I don't want to dislike Sena over pity debates, like most people do with other characters, due to fanbase.
 
Dec 23, 2011 2:54 AM

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I'm not sure about the LN so bear with me but the the anime didn't really give Yozora a chance to get any proper character development. It tends to put Sena in the "victim" position while Yozora is always the villian.

Like in the episode when they Yozora adds Kodoka as a phone contact. Sena gets really upset tells off Yozora. So Yozora get her back but because Sena is more emotional everyone is on her side. Even though it was her fault in the first place.

I'm not that Yozora is being falsly accused because she really can be a bitch. But Sena can be too. But because Sena gets put in a more sympathetic light and Yozora never really gets put in a position where we can actually understand her as a relatable character.
 
Dec 23, 2011 3:06 AM

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See the last episode,you will see her in a different light.
 
Dec 23, 2011 3:24 AM

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What I don't like about Yozora she doesn't even seem to try to change. She had it hard, okay, she has attachment issues, okay, that sucks. But that doesn't mean she has to stay this way for the rest of her life. She doesn't realize she won't get anywhere with her current behaviour but even thinks her behaviour is good. She is obviously doing something wrong, but naah, changing would mean going of my comfort zone, for example, suffer the crowd of people to the end because everyone is happy, I'll just destroy everyone's mood for my sake, thank you, or another example: being honestly nice. She wants friends. Sena obviously tries to be her friend. She even likes the, rather offensive, nickname 'meat' - and the only thing she gets in return is bullying. That she doesn't know how to treat people? Please. Sena runs out crying, even an idiot would conclude that's not a way to go, yet she does it again. And apparently, she did have a friend (hell, she even has an imaginary friend), why not just go the similar way as she did back then? Seriously, how is one supposed to get closer to her when she is determined to make one hate her?
Also, she is in a Neighbours' Club. NO ONE has any friends there and barely had any before, not only her. No one has any similar behaviour to hers. Observing others a little maybe? But as I said, she's just not willing to do anything.
First thing to do with most of psychological issues (attachment issues) is to admit it. If she wanted to change, she would.
 
Dec 23, 2011 11:47 AM

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Doesn't matter that Yozora doesn't "try" to change, the fact of the matter is that she IS changing regardless. Through this 12 episode span, there has definitely been an improvement in Yozora and Sena's relationship, and it is no where near hostile like it once was.

The ones making arguments for Yozora should be fair and make equal ones for Sena. If Yozora is being stubborn about her petty-ness, Sena is being stubborn about dropping her snobbish attitude and slick tongue. Both of these girls has issues that need to solved, and they are both getting there.

Sena gets a lot of unfair slack when she can be just as bitchy as Yozora. Yes people, making fun of someone's financial status cause you're rich and they're not is BAD.
 
Dec 23, 2011 12:11 PM

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Pew to much text.
Didn't read it all ~ but I like Yozora therefore I'd say she's likeable ;3
I honestly don't get the whole fuss people tend to make over Sena & Kobato. Compared to them Yozora is a lot more original. She might be a bully and all but who isn't?
Sena gets back at her whenever she has the chance to do so. And Kobato & Maria love to bully each other.

I just run over this page and Bitterblue said something about Yozora not trying to change and how that's a bad point and all. . . . I believe all of them don't need to change at all. They only have to realise that, what they are doing is exactly what friends do => that they already are friends. Buuuut well it would be good for Yozora & Rika to become more social.
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If you find mistakes be it grammar or anything else please send me a note~
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Dec 23, 2011 1:03 PM

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RealScreamer said:
^^^ Still, that's not something to defend. I'm sure if it was reality, most of us would be in jail. What would be our excuse? The girl had a cute reaction? lmao...

Which is why I don't know how people can judge so quickly and why I use material other than the anime. These 12 episodes IMO, have been nothing but comedy and fanservice. And no, I don't see Sena's pool episode to be "development". She just starts to like Kodaka, nothing else - her character still is a major Tsundere just like after "Yozora's revealing" - she will still be a complete sadist. In saying that. No one really developed. Rika is still a weird pervert, Maria is still a whiny child, Yukimura is still...doing whatever she's doing, lol..etc. Remember, it's not only Yozora and Sena in the running, the other girls didn't have much time either.

Most importantly, of course they had to give a few episodes to Sena, Yozora already has "the upper-hand" in all of this, so no need to make it completely obvious that she's gonna "win".


That's why i don't like Yozora, one thing is had the upper hand and other is being part of the scenery for the most part of the show and just at the very end almost split on Kodoka's face that she is her childhood friend.

Srsly i would have enjoy Yozora if that would happened earlier in the series to let both of them interact more.

In no way i expect a mayor development in this series, like say Ouran or Stains;Gate, but it's a little bit on all of this after all, that's i like the show in general.
 
Dec 23, 2011 2:15 PM

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RealScreamer said:
^^^ Still, that's not something to defend. I'm sure if it was reality, most of us would be in jail. What would be our excuse? The girl had a cute reaction? lmao...


Sery said:
If she wasnt the main heroine i wouldn't care at all, but her character is really underdevelop, apart from creating the club, she does close to nothing as a character in the series just in the final episode they give us a legitimate reason to like her as a heroin wile the whole show is based on Sena and Kodaka getting closer to each other.

But to me she fails as a heroine wile they make me like Sena in spite that i don really like "fan service" characters as main heroines.

And dont bring the LN or manga here, this is for the anime series, if she really get any development on the possible 2 season we'll see that, but, based only in this 13 episodes i dont like her.


Which is why I don't know how people can judge so quickly and why I use material other than the anime. These 12 episodes IMO, have been nothing but comedy and fanservice. And no, I don't see Sena's pool episode to be "development". She just starts to like Kodaka, nothing else - her character still is a major Tsundere just like after "Yozora's revealing" - she will still be a complete sadist. In saying that. No one really developed. Rika is still a weird pervert, Maria is still a whiny child, Yukimura is still...doing whatever she's doing, lol..etc. Remember, it's not only Yozora and Sena in the running, the other girls didn't have much time either.

Most importantly, of course they had to give a few episodes to Sena, Yozora already has "the upper-hand" in all of this, so no need to make it completely obvious that she's gonna "win".

Shia-Neko-Chan said:
Yozora's very unlikeable because she's simply a manipulative bully with no real redeeming qualities. Of course, there are those who like bullies (or just bully characters), so it's natural she has some fans.



It's natural that most people can understand characters and not just blindly hate them. People liking "bully characters" is silly.


YOU ARE THINKING IT WRONG!!!!

there is a huge difference between MEN and WOMEN, women can get away with just about anything. And usually it's a "friendly touch", nothing major(see Kodaka's reaction)
"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys
 
Dec 23, 2011 5:17 PM

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Sery said:
That's why i don't like Yozora, one thing is had the upper hand and other is being part of the scenery for the most part of the show and just at the very end almost split on Kodoka's face that she is her childhood friend.

Srsly i would have enjoy Yozora if that would happened earlier in the series to let both of them interact more.

In no way i expect a mayor development in this series, like say Ouran or Stains;Gate, but it's a little bit on all of this after all, that's i like the show in general.


I'm confused about the "upperhand" response. One thing you don't like about her is for that reason? You would have liked it better if she had never met Kodaka? Or are you implying that, even though "she has the upper hand", she didn't have much interactions to "win"...?

You know, that childhood friend thing can either go two ways, best friend or girlfriend. And as said before, even though she was his friend, Sena had more interactions with him this season,therefore, making it kinda even. Not to mention, he met her father. I believe next season(if made) will be fair game... So it's not much of a bid deal to dislike a character for. But, to each their own.

GodlyKyon said:
YOU ARE THINKING IT WRONG!!!!

there is a huge difference between MEN and WOMEN, women can get away with just about anything. And usually it's a "friendly touch", nothing major(see Kodaka's reaction)


No need for caps :X

It wasn't implied for men only, it was for both genders, realistically speaking. I know if I was being talked to or touched like Kobato, even though it was a women, I'd have her ass in jail. I don't believe in that whole "women getting away with it more" nowadays thing, especially where I live. But it's all, just comes down to "comfort zone" and if other girls are fine with being sexually harassed by another woman, oh well.

But I still say, despite me not taking the show seriously, and taking all the jokes in as humor only and nothing offensive, doesn't bother me and I laugh at it. But just to clarify that no one is innocent in this, had to be said. And with that, I hope we can drop this for now and more than likely talk about it again, if season 2 happens lol.
 
Dec 23, 2011 5:35 PM

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I wouldn't call it unlikable, but I just don't sympathize with her.
She's always bullying Sena, at first I didn't really mind but then it got me really pissed. And she was the only one always saying: "Have any of you here made any friends?" And never stopped to think that they were already friends. Somehow saying those stuff she was making people incapable of even thinking about it.
Last episode:
 
Dec 23, 2011 5:59 PM

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Yes, since as a character she could be called an antagonist because of confrontation she brings to the table by some but she could at the same time be called likeable by different people that can appreciate how antagonists can "stir the pot" or empathize with her self-defeating nature.

 
Dec 23, 2011 6:22 PM

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RealScreamer said:
Sery said:
That's why i don't like Yozora, one thing is had the upper hand and other is being part of the scenery for the most part of the show and just at the very end almost split on Kodoka's face that she is her childhood friend.

Srsly i would have enjoy Yozora if that would happened earlier in the series to let both of them interact more.

In no way i expect a mayor development in this series, like say Ouran or Stains;Gate, but it's a little bit on all of this after all, that's i like the show in general.


I'm confused about the "upperhand" response. One thing you don't like about her is for that reason? You would have liked it better if she had never met Kodaka? Or are you implying that, even though "she has the upper hand", she didn't have much interactions to "win"...?

You know, that childhood friend thing can either go two ways, best friend or girlfriend. And as said before, even though she was his friend, Sena had more interactions with him this season,therefore, making it kinda even. Not to mention, he met her father. I believe next season(if made) will be fair game... So it's not much of a bid deal to dislike a character for. But, to each their own.

GodlyKyon said:
YOU ARE THINKING IT WRONG!!!!

there is a huge difference between MEN and WOMEN, women can get away with just about anything. And usually it's a "friendly touch", nothing major(see Kodaka's reaction)


No need for caps :X

It wasn't implied for men only, it was for both genders, realistically speaking. I know if I was being talked to or touched like Kobato, even though it was a women, I'd have her ass in jail. I don't believe in that whole "women getting away with it more" nowadays thing, especially where I live. But it's all, just comes down to "comfort zone" and if other girls are fine with being sexually harassed by another woman, oh well.

But I still say, despite me not taking the show seriously, and taking all the jokes in as humor only and nothing offensive, doesn't bother me and I laugh at it. But just to clarify that no one is innocent in this, had to be said. And with that, I hope we can drop this for now and more than likely talk about it again, if season 2 happens lol.


Ok I suppose. But there are many cases where a man does something sexual to a younger person(student eg). The man gets punished to the point he's practically useless but on the other hand, women get away with it MUCH easier. Very sure that is how it is in japan recently.

Last note: Yozora made me feel she's a barrier between the club and realizing they're friends already, that is not a good point to add for me as she's already a major bitch(maybe not Kirino level though). And now she cut her hair...,.. NOOOOO!!!!!!!
"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys
 
Dec 28, 2011 7:29 AM

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RealScreamer said:

More over, I see a big debate coming with this Sena opinion I have, so I'll leave it off here, as I don't want to dislike Sena over pity debates, like most people do with other characters, due to fanbase.


I hear you on that. I essentially had the same thing happen to me over Sheryl Nome; went from mild amusement in the early episodes to slight apathy at her fall from grace to a deep seeded annoyance for the character post episode 18 on that's only recently subsided through the redo of the character in the movies and many years. Fandom's silly like that.

Personally, Yozora's interactions with Sena were what made the show entertaining, so I can't find her anything but likeable. It's kind of sad how so many can't read through the lines and can only hate characters with obvious foibles. Seems a character has to be a practical Mary Sue just to be ok to "like". The girl doesn't know how to interact with others, making her amusing to watch since it's hard to take her over the top bullying seriously (she knows how to push buttons, not a bad thing), and she's kind of sad in her obvious loneliness, so I can relate.

Though I'll admit I was starting to like Sena a bit more until around the Kobato incidents. That was a MAJOR buzz kill. It's meant to be in cute fun, but Kobato REALLY doesn't like it AT ALL; which takes a lot of the fun out of it, and just makes Sena creepy. She is a bit of a crybaby too, but whatever. I still like her for the eroge angle though. Episode 2 is still the funnest of the lot. Though i haven't watched the last two episodes yet.

I agree what much of what you've said. Thanks for the insight. Reminds me a lot of all the hate threads on Mitsuki Hayase from Kiminozo years back. Another greatly misunderstood and reviled character just because she didn't follow the usual path of "sweet, all-loving, perfect heroine".
Modified by tifaonacloud, Dec 28, 2011 7:32 AM
 
Dec 28, 2011 1:25 PM

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tifaonacloud said:
RealScreamer said:

More over, I see a big debate coming with this Sena opinion I have, so I'll leave it off here, as I don't want to dislike Sena over pity debates, like most people do with other characters, due to fanbase.


I hear you on that. I essentially had the same thing happen to me over Sheryl Nome; went from mild amusement in the early episodes to slight apathy at her fall from grace to a deep seeded annoyance for the character post episode 18 on that's only recently subsided through the redo of the character in the movies and many years. Fandom's silly like that.

Personally, Yozora's interactions with Sena were what made the show entertaining, so I can't find her anything but likeable. It's kind of sad how so many can't read through the lines and can only hate characters with obvious foibles. Seems a character has to be a practical Mary Sue just to be ok to "like". The girl doesn't know how to interact with others, making her amusing to watch since it's hard to take her over the top bullying seriously (she knows how to push buttons, not a bad thing), and she's kind of sad in her obvious loneliness, so I can relate.

Though I'll admit I was starting to like Sena a bit more until around the Kobato incidents. That was a MAJOR buzz kill. It's meant to be in cute fun, but Kobato REALLY doesn't like it AT ALL; which takes a lot of the fun out of it, and just makes Sena creepy. She is a bit of a crybaby too, but whatever. I still like her for the eroge angle though. Episode 2 is still the funnest of the lot. Though i haven't watched the last two episodes yet.

I agree what much of what you've said. Thanks for the insight. Reminds me a lot of all the hate threads on Mitsuki Hayase from Kiminozo years back. Another greatly misunderstood and reviled character just because she didn't follow the usual path of "sweet, all-loving, perfect heroine".
Finding her entertaining and finding her likable are completely different things. I find it hard anyone can find her attitude good or entreating. She's there to be a foil to Sena's role as the weak girl who wants friends. If we're to think it logically, the only one who actually want any friends in the whole series are Sena and Kodaka.

Anyway I went on a tangent there but, as pure comedic foil Yozora does her job (and even exceeds it) but even if she's necessary for the series' flavor of comedy the viewer has no obligation to sympathize with her attitude. In fact, they do every step to try to get you to symphatize with the other members more than with Yozora. Just so happens some viewers like the sadistic "mean" characters hence why there's so many who disagree with the opinion she's unlikable. But if we were to judge it in a more real-life scenario where comedy has zero bearing, Yozora is the kind of person you would never want near you.

Personally, I am not a fan of sadistic comedy and really cringe at bullying, even when done in jest.
Modified by Leon-Gun, Dec 28, 2011 1:31 PM

 
Dec 28, 2011 3:20 PM

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Leon-Gun said:
Finding her entertaining and finding her likable are completely different things. I find it hard anyone can find her attitude good or entreating. She's there to be a foil to Sena's role as the weak girl who wants friends. If we're to think it logically, the only one who actually want any friends in the whole series are Sena and Kodaka.

Anyway I went on a tangent there but, as pure comedic foil Yozora does her job (and even exceeds it) but even if she's necessary for the series' flavor of comedy the viewer has no obligation to sympathize with her attitude. In fact, they do every step to try to get you to symphatize with the other members more than with Yozora. Just so happens some viewers like the sadistic "mean" characters hence why there's so many who disagree with the opinion she's unlikable. But if we were to judge it in a more real-life scenario where comedy has zero bearing, Yozora is the kind of person you would never want near you.

Personally, I am not a fan of sadistic comedy and really cringe at bullying, even when done in jest.


Sense a bit of faulty generalization. You are generalizing a character is such as such because they behaved specifically to certain other characters. Sena absolutely craves Yozora's attention, and may appear earnest friend seeker, but on the flip side she doesn't give a damn about the other girls in her class. Her flaw is not weakness, but a total disregard for anyone she doesn't care about. According to Sena they are all bitches. Yozora is also a bitch except she's the bitch that Sena always pays attention to. Yozora is sadist towards Sena though she is an awkward recluse when it comes to her class mates.
 
Dec 28, 2011 3:43 PM

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I wish I got into this tread earlier.
Do I like yozora? No. Is she an unlikabled character? I dont think so. Given enough time and interaction anyone can be liked. As it has been pointed out sena is liked even though she is as flawed as yozora and is given more screen time.



And curiosity sake, if I met yozora in real life would I be positive to her? I would be neutral.
 
Dec 28, 2011 9:18 PM

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potplant said:
Leon-Gun said:
Finding her entertaining and finding her likable are completely different things. I find it hard anyone can find her attitude good or entreating. She's there to be a foil to Sena's role as the weak girl who wants friends. If we're to think it logically, the only one who actually want any friends in the whole series are Sena and Kodaka.

Anyway I went on a tangent there but, as pure comedic foil Yozora does her job (and even exceeds it) but even if she's necessary for the series' flavor of comedy the viewer has no obligation to sympathize with her attitude. In fact, they do every step to try to get you to symphatize with the other members more than with Yozora. Just so happens some viewers like the sadistic "mean" characters hence why there's so many who disagree with the opinion she's unlikable. But if we were to judge it in a more real-life scenario where comedy has zero bearing, Yozora is the kind of person you would never want near you.

Personally, I am not a fan of sadistic comedy and really cringe at bullying, even when done in jest.


Sense a bit of faulty generalization. You are generalizing a character is such as such because they behaved specifically to certain other characters. Sena absolutely craves Yozora's attention, and may appear earnest friend seeker, but on the flip side she doesn't give a damn about the other girls in her class. Her flaw is not weakness, but a total disregard for anyone she doesn't care about. According to Sena they are all bitches. Yozora is also a bitch except she's the bitch that Sena always pays attention to. Yozora is sadist towards Sena though she is an awkward recluse when it comes to her class mates.


It appears she can talk to "people without friends". Sena wants Yozora's attention, I guess it's because other girls in real life never wanted to be involved with her.
"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys
 
Dec 30, 2011 12:59 PM

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Here is a question for all of you... Would you be able to hang out with her in real life? Liking her on a anime is much different then having to actually deal with her. She is a bitch.
 
Dec 30, 2011 3:17 PM

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korn7809 said:
Here is a question for all of you... Would you be able to hang out with her in real life? Liking her on a anime is much different then having to actually deal with her. She is a bitch.


What does that matter? You'd never meet these characters in real life, at best you'd find people who have some similar personality traits. I can't imagining having an enjoyable time with half the characters I like from fictional stories.

 
Dec 30, 2011 10:58 PM

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korn7809 said:
Here is a question for all of you... Would you be able to hang out with her in real life? Liking her on a anime is much different then having to actually deal with her. She is a bitch.


now this is where it comes from. I think most of the fanbase thought of it this way and concluded that.

And also, the Otakus would probably MUCH rather play eroge with a hot girl.
Anime_Name said:
korn7809 said:
Here is a question for all of you... Would you be able to hang out with her in real life? Liking her on a anime is much different then having to actually deal with her. She is a bitch.


What does that matter? You'd never meet these characters in real life, at best you'd find people who have some similar personality traits. I can't imagining having an enjoyable time with half the characters I like from fictional stories.


Too true, but it's more of how the series make you feel.

If the series makes you feel it's POSSIBLE that the world in the series is your's, there is a way more likely chance to think that way. If not, Something like haruhi, You Would not really feel that way. (Which is probably why people hate Mikuru. I am sure most people would be like kyon if they were in teh same position, but it's hard to think the world you exist have A/E/TT in it, so they thought Mikuru was useless and annoying)

BTW, great Sig, that twin brother is an asshole
"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys
 
Dec 31, 2011 1:12 AM

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Yes, she is an unlikeable character.
 
Jan 1, 2012 12:24 AM

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All of them in real life except Kodaka/Kobato/Yukimura would be "bad to interact" with. Sena not being able to get along with girls and treating boys like slaves at school while being a rich pompous bitch would piss people off, Yozora for being too straightforward with her bitchness would also piss people off, Maria for being a little whiny brat and Rika for being a weird ass extreme pervert always getting off on things. Those girls would all be a pain to handle, they are all flawed - especially Rika, not even Yozora can shut her up.... In fact - if you all noticed, if you don't piss Yozora off and just talk to her about nothing "major", she seems like the most likeable - shown dealing with Maria.

GodlyKyon said:
Last note: Yozora made me feel she's a barrier between the club and realizing they're friends already, that is not a good point to add for me as she's already a major bitch(maybe not Kirino level though). And now she cut her hair...,.. NOOOOO!!!!!!!


I have no idea how that's possible when she started the group, makes activities for the group, most of the time listens to what others want to do and last episode showed even with the cutting of her hair - being "holy shit" worthy - ('cause no female with long hair wants it to be cut), they're still carrying out the main objective. And so episode 12, to me - it looked like Yozora wasn't just in the club for Kodaka anymore - which is why she seemed to put a "barrier" when talking to him. It's not just friends with him now, it's everyone else and more which is why he isn't getting the "special privilege" to call her "Sora". But, it is your own feelings, so to each their own.

also, don't understand the "realizing friends isn't a good point because she's a major bitch" - makes no sense, that doesn't have to deal with anything nor is it a good reason to hate the "realization of they're all friends deep down". I think it's rather funny how they're all looking for friends when in fact, they all found some pretty good ones, despite all their faults.

On a off note - I like her hair short, doesn't really bother me. Makes her look "cool" - Though, the art of her with it, looks better in the Novel illustrations. Would be interesting to see Sena with short hair...can't really imagine it, lol.

spankfestival said:
I wish I got into this tread earlier.
Do I like yozora? No. Is she an unlikabled character? I dont think so. Given enough time and interaction anyone can be liked. As it has been pointed out sena is liked even though she is as flawed as yozora and is given more screen time.



 
Jan 4, 2012 1:57 AM

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I like Yozora its Maria I can't stand god she is so annoying. Dx I know she is a kid, but still damn.
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character thats for sure!"
 
Apr 24, 2012 4:50 PM

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The teasing in the rivalry between her and Sena is simply too one sided and a bit too overboard at times. This makes it come across as bullying which by itself is not the problem in my opinion. The problem arises from the impression given from her personality in the beginning.

Judging from the main character's description of her in the first episode and her statement that she doesn't like bullying as well as the flashback of her defending him from bullies we are given the impression that she has a more noble character with a strong sense of justice. This first impression strongly clashes with the later perceived bullying and makes he seem hypocritical which is a generally negative trait.

To me it honestly feels like Sena was originally going to be a stronger and more stuck up character, which would balance with Yozora, but decided to make her rather innocent right away rather than become that way through characterization leaving Yozora's character kinda out of place. This last part was just pure conjecture on my part as i don't have an ounce of proof.
 
Apr 24, 2012 4:53 PM

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All I can say is that she's my favorite character.
 
Apr 28, 2012 2:55 PM

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I don't like Yozora. I honestly absolutely loathe her. And this is the first time I ever disliked a character so deeply. But I can understand and relate to her somewhat. Yes, I get that she's anti-social and doesn't know how to express her feelings to people. I can be rather difficult. Scratch that. I AM difficult and hard to befriend. We're similar but at the same time, not. Our mindset and the way we handle our inner issues are very different. Which is why I cannot bring myself to like her.

Point is. I can understand Yozora and her problem but I just can't simply sympathies with her. She constantly takes things way too far. She's hypocritical and contradicts herself. She has an attitude problem. She's manipulative, obnoxious, and condescending. So what, her childhood best friend disappeared for 10 years. Big deal. Everyone had had a friend they haven't seen for years, maybe longer than that. And then she has the nerve to be irritated that said childhood friend didn't recognize her when she knew he always thought she was a boy. He's not going to go up to a beautiful long hair girl and say "OMG you look like a friend I knew back 10 years ago!" and she'll be like "OMG, you recognize me even if I'm a girl now! asllkafaajk I am that childhood friend! Let's make love!" and then everything'll be mwuh mwuah hankypanky again. Not to mention, he's already awkward himself!

Anyway, topic. I found Yozora to be unlikable and unbearable to watch. I much prefer Sena cause while she was a b*tch herself and somewhat similar, just weaker, at least it felt like she was trying to actually make friends with everyone. Even if I'm not fond of either the two. (The only ones I actually liked to an extent were Kodaka and Kobato.) I would hate myself if I were to turn out like Yozora did. I can understand where she's coming from but I simply cannot sympathesize. As much as I want to, I just can't.
 
Apr 28, 2012 3:01 PM
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I have no problem with Yozora tbh
 
Apr 29, 2012 4:43 PM

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This thread is a huge tl;dr so I'm just gonna say I think Yozora is the best character in the series and I personally don't like Meat all that much.
 
Apr 29, 2012 4:54 PM

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The whole cast is sigh-worthy, since it's so unoriginal. Yozora firstly shows up to be the cool, dominant girl and then in the end they try to make it emotional over some stupid childhood that never felt like the main focus during the anime.
 
Apr 29, 2012 6:20 PM

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I don't like Yozora, but I don't dislike her either. I'm kind of neutral. It just bugs me when she takes things too far with Sena or Maria. Especially when Sena actually tries to be friends with her. I understand that she has issues with interacting with people, but how she treats them sometimes is just bullying. So while I don't dislike her myself, I can understand why people don't like her.
 
May 26, 2012 11:47 AM

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what Kumis said

if she wasnt such a bitch to Sena id even like her
 
May 26, 2012 1:27 PM

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incisorr said:
what Kumis said

if she wasnt such a bitch to Sena id even like her


How about not being such a bitch in general?
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May 28, 2012 12:19 AM

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GodlyKyon said:
incisorr said:
what Kumis said

if she wasnt such a bitch to Sena id even like her


How about not being such a bitch in general?


She's a bitch, for sure...but I think her character is more compelling because of the dynamic she has with kodaka. Her backstory with kodaka and her reasons why she started the neighbor's club offers more depth into yozora's character more than other characters. If anything, I think the writing staff just timed it poorly and tried to cram too much information into the last episode.

Btw, maybe the reason as to why she is a bitch could be because of her ambivalent feelings towards gaining so many companions in the club. On the one hand, she gets more friends, but on the other hand, her original objective for forming the neighbor's club was for only herself and kodaka to get along.
 
May 28, 2012 7:07 AM

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Yozora looks can be so kind unlike Kirino
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Jul 9, 2012 8:20 AM

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Is Yozora an unlikable character? Well, just let’s summarize what she has done:

The neighbor club is a kind of “cage” where Yozora can look over Kodaka. At the beginning she just wanted a room for him and herself so they can spend some time together and she hoped that he will remember that she is Sora.

She fooled him that the intention of the club was to make friends. Yes, of course it was her own intention to become friends with him again, and only with him. She never thought about his own intention and feelings, she never cared about it from the beginning and even at the latest volume of the light novel she does not consider what he might think – she only thinks about herself.

She actually hinders him to find friends on his own as long as he remains in the club and under her supervision. She shoos away any other member that comes to close to him. She doesn’t want him to have other friends besides her – like in the old days as Taka and Sora where they only had themselves.

Kodaka improves his relationships mainly outside of the club where Yozora is out of range, like visiting Sena’s dad or the swimming lessons with her and some other events where Kodaka meets some people and where Yozora is NOT involved. Within the club there is no progress at all – between him and Yozora - much to her anger.

At the pool Kodaka was able to protect Sena against three guys and he cared for her and he also scolded her. There he was strong. Within the club however Kodaka seems rather weak if Yozora is around. He watches more or less passively how Yozora bullies the other members, mainly Sena and Maria. Yozora does not bully Kobato because she is Kodaka’s sister. Normally Yozora bullies anyone who is weaker than her. Her negative attitude and behavior has a bad influence on the others.

Yozora seems to enjoy it if everything is under her control – she controls/fools Sena, Yukimura, Maria and Kodaka. Only Rika is out of her control.

Kodaka and Yozora had their friendship in the past, but now Yozora is not even interested in Kodaka's present self, she only talks about the past friendship, her own problems and some sad memories. Seriously, Kodaka don't even open up to her and Yozora herself is running away from reality (the present matters more than the past). She just sticks to those memories, and she hates all normal people that are luckier than her. She already has given up herself.

Kodaka wants to be a "normal" and don't want to be a loner forever like Yozora. And that's exactly what Yozora wants. Both should be always together. She does not care about his feelings. If they stay together, Yozora will be happy, but Kodaka will be very unlucky, because that would mean that he also has given up on his dream to have a fulfilled life.

Yozora is the biggest obstacle for Kodaka to have a fulfilled life, because as long as she clings to the past he always will feel guilty that he left her alone ten years ago.

Kodaka is the only one who can stop Yozora from going too far, but he does not do it very often (once he stopped Yozora from teasing Maria). Someone has to show Yozora her limits but that will likely not be Kodaka himself because I assume he is afraid of her. Rika could do it, I guess.

Kodaka and Sena REALLY want friends, so they try to endure dealing with Yozora.

Yozora is frustrated and pitying herself why she is so unlucky. She is not able to recognize that she is responsible for her own luck. Everything bad she does backfires after some time. Even that does not help her to realize things. I guess we are just running into a climax where Yozora will just break down at the end.

So, is Yozora an unlikable character? She wants anyone to feel like her (and mainly wants Kodaka to stay as an outcast on her side) - just think about if she would be able to break Sena's cheerful personality (like her creepy behaviour in Vol. 4 showing she is really suffering) and those bullied by her also starts to hate people like she does.

Yozora is dangerous for society! It's better to leave her alone and she should just remain with her air friends and continue to dream about friendship where she has full control over others and where everything turns out in her favour.

 
Jul 18, 2012 8:32 PM

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Well said.

I don't mind Yozora's attitude. It gives her that unique trait and I can't imagine her being a nice girl.

The only times I think Yozora is unlikeable is when she treats Sena the way she does...
 
Jul 21, 2012 4:34 PM

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I kinda like Yozora actually~
By doing what she is doing, she's actually uplifts the other characters.
Normally friends does make fun of each other.

If its something to be unlikeable, I say its Sena's high and mighty attitude toward boys and that she runs away whenever she can't handle the teasing or embarrassment.

I know these aren't reasons enough but this is what I think...
If I were Kodaka, I'll go for Sena though because she's a gamer girl ^___^
(also partly because Yozora cut her hair too short for my taste)
 
Jul 21, 2012 4:36 PM

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Yozora was main reason why i enjoyed this show.I couldnt stand Sena though.
 
Jul 21, 2012 6:09 PM

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Sena is the most likeable character in my opinion. She undergoes the most growth, and despite constantly being at odds with Yozora, she continues to make attempts at becoming friends with her.

Yozora is despicable. Every time I start to feel any sort of sympathy towards her character, she quickly turns it to disgust with the way she bullies everyone. And as others have pointed out, she's a huge hypocrite for disliking bullying so much and yet being one herself. I start losing any interest in her character every time Sena tries to be nice to her, and she just finds some way to insult Sena.

I think the last straw for me was when Sena was feeling left out as the only one without a cellphone. She brought one in the next day and was overflowing with happiness that she could join in with everyone else. She went to Yozora excitedly asking to exchange information with her, and Yozora immediately shoots her down like a complete bitch. And if that wasn't bad enough, she finds a way to sabotage Sena's phone, leaving Sena crying in worry that her brand new cellphone was already broken. After that, I felt zero sympathy for Yozora. I couldn't help but laugh that her plan backfired when it only brought Kodaka to Sena's rescue, leaving Yozora alone to ponder just what a bully she is.

Despite most of these stories having the male protagonist end up with his childhood friend, I really hope Kodaka goes for Sena instead.
 
Aug 16, 2012 8:07 PM

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Yozora is the reason I didn't drop this anime. I just love manipulative and evil girls! And she being an antisocial is a plus too. I always like deep or soft voice than a high pitched or noisy one like Sena/Maria.

I slightly dislike Sena. She is too spoiled and crybaby for my taste and her fanservice is disturbing.

I want a Kodaka/Yozora ending. BADLY.

This is my personal opinion though.
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