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Pandora Hearts Chapter 68 Discussion

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Poll: Pandora Hearts Chapter 68 Discussion


12-21-11, 12:26 PM

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Liinah said:

Thanks for the explanation as well. ~
And are you sure she's hugging her belly and not just her arm? I can't really tell. Is this panel, right?
omg, i really want little lacie


I thought it was her stomach but.. o Ao"
Maybe she isn't.. oops.

me too me too! @ u @
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12-21-11, 1:19 PM

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Liinah said:

And about Break, that's true... But i don't think he can hear it, though he does have an interesting chain that can swallow things related to the abyss. Why would a chain like this exist? It's like the chain is rejecting things from the place she comes from, kinda weird.


As I mentioned in my previous post, he also got to meet the Will of the Abyss, which is quite similar and most probably related to the Core of the Abyss, which may have been caused in some way by his red eyes?
Actually, it was completely caused by his red eyes.

Liinah said:

And I was about to say that Lacie could have merged with B-rabbit once she was in abyss's core, but i forgot that Alice now is the B-rabbit. If she were only a human with contracted chain, Lacie could have been the B-rabbit. ;A; I want to know all those mysteries!

So Lacie, B-Rabbit, and Alice are really a confusing bunch. As far as I've been able to tell, Lacie did have a contract with it, and Alice seems to have merged with it in some ways, though when Oz's incuse progresses, Alice becomes transparent, suggesting a reliance on the contract. And remember how familiar Jack is with B-Rabbit's power? It suggests tht he had a contract with B-Rabbit after Lacie did, which would probably mean that she didn't merge. Maybe Jack merged B-Rabbit and the Alice twins together during the tragedy to keep Lacie's legacy alive? I have several (unlikely) theories floating around my head.

cielleia said:

Alice and Oz's eyes turn red when in B-Rabbit mode, not just Oz, right?

I'm unsure... I'll look around to see if it says that anywhere.
 
12-21-11, 3:52 PM

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ToshiMonster said:
As I mentioned in my previous post, he also got to meet the Will of the Abyss, which is quite similar and most probably related to the Core of the Abyss, which may have been caused in some way by his red eyes?
Actually, it was completely caused by his red eyes.

I believe as well that the place where Alyss lives is the core of the abyss, I even mentioned it here. And awesome catch with this manga page! Alyss eyes should be red, she'd look cool with them and the theory about the red eyes would make even more sense. Though when Vince went to the abyss and found Alyss, Gilbert was with him as well, but I guess he got there just because Vince was holding him.
ToshiMonster said:

So Lacie, B-Rabbit, and Alice are really a confusing bunch. As far as I've been able to tell, Lacie did have a contract with it, and Alice seems to have merged with it in some ways, though when Oz's incuse progresses, Alice becomes transparent, suggesting a reliance on the contract. And remember how familiar Jack is with B-Rabbit's power? It suggests tht he had a contract with B-Rabbit after Lacie did, which would probably mean that she didn't merge. Maybe Jack merged B-Rabbit and the Alice twins together during the tragedy to keep Lacie's legacy alive? I have several (unlikely) theories floating around my head.

I wonder what will happen to Alice if Oz keeps using B-rabbit's power. The first time he did was in the Headhunter's arc and I don't recall Alice having transparent body.
If Jack really did merge B-rabbit with someone, I guess it was just Alice or else Alyss would be able to use it's power too.
And by the way, I think Lacie was once in the abyss. She says "I can always come back" like she had been there, plus I'm not sure if it's her but I guess it's Glen who says "How many times do I have to tell you to stay away from that place?" So I suppose B-rabbit already existed before her and she made a contract with it? And then somehow she got powers to go there whenever she wanted.
And the old baskerville woman said the misfortune children should be thrown at the place they came from, so maybe Lacie was born there somehow? Hm... Maybe not, that would implie in too much backstory for her.
Modified by Liinah, 12-21-11, 3:57 PM
 
12-22-11, 7:40 AM

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Haha, I absolutely loved the small interactions between Jack and Oswald in this chapter, they were too adorable. XD
Finally, we got to learn something about that creepy old lady.
I've always wondered why Glen wanted to do the ceremony with such a young Gil, but now we know that it can take decades for all the chains to get transferred to the next vessel's body. And a child of misfortune needs to be sacrificed, interesting...
Is the tower where Lacie is kept in the same where Alice lived later?
Sooo... if Gil (and Vincent) were called to Glen by the golden lights and went on their own, does that mean that the flashback about Jack picking them up from the street when they were half dead is fake? D: Or did that happen later?
 
12-22-11, 7:58 AM

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Amarevia said:
Is the tower where Lacie is kept in the same where Alice lived later?

At first I thought it was, but I don't think it is anymore. The tower seems different to me on the outside and the inside even more. Unless Glen has put the curtains, dolls and other stuff only when Alice started living there.
 
12-22-11, 8:17 AM

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After I've read this chapter I thought "Oh, I think I understood smth new and the whole story is now more understandable", but some time later I asked myself about what I'd understood and then understood that I understood nothing, or, ok, a little bit.(LOL, my english isn't very rich, sorry^^"). In best traditions of PH new chapter gave us few information and left so many questions opened. I love this manga sooo much. *___*
 
12-22-11, 11:25 AM

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I like the direction that it takes.

Also I felt sad for Lacie.
 
12-22-11, 12:55 PM

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Liinah said:
so it's possible that she got pregnant in one of this adventures.

Except for one thing, Lacie is 23, Alice is 13. She couldn't have been pregnant at 10.

Then again, she's a Baskerville and they age slower so it could be possible somehow. Oh, I don't really get the aging thing though. Both, her and Glen seemed to age normally. Gil as well. Unless they weren't fully Baskervilles or something. I don't know. Nevertheless, Lacie being Alice's mother is still unlikely, if you think about her age.
Modified by kawaiiyuris, 12-22-11, 1:02 PM
 
12-22-11, 1:01 PM

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Adorable kiddies in this chapter;)

Love the way Jack and Glen are getting closer*A*

Anyway, "real" Glen seems to have hidden intentions. i really hope he doesnt get Lacie pregnant *shivers*

Definitely Lacie is connected to Vince... and both connected to the core of the abyss.

what made me feel real bad was knowing that it will be Oswald killing Lacie. C´mon, killing his own sister, wtf. Also, I wonder if he ever told that to Jack. Because if he did, then i doubt Jack would become his best friend like he did...unless Jack wanted revenge.
Being a Fujoshi is an ode to male beauty.
 
12-22-11, 1:04 PM

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Orulyon said:
Also, I wonder if he ever told that to Jack. Because if he did, then i doubt Jack would become his best friend like he did...unless Jack wanted revenge.


I'm pretty sure Jack knew, and Glen probably told him that it could not have been avoided. Jack might have accepted that, however, he still ended up killing Glen. Let's just wait and see~
 
12-22-11, 1:21 PM

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GracefulDownfall said:
Liinah said:
so it's possible that she got pregnant in one of this adventures.

Except for one thing, Lacie is 23, Alice is 13. She couldn't have been pregnant at 10.

How are you so sure about Alice's age? It's her current age or what?
Because i was giving her like... 10 or something, because she seems to be the same age as Vincent and Gil. < In the past, when they first met each other.

By current i mean now she's with Oz, ignore the 100 years that has passed. 8D
 
12-23-11, 3:26 PM

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It's her official age. We just know it xD Like we know that Vincent is 23 and Gilbert is 24.

Not 100% sure about Lacie though, but she's 24 at most. Because Glen was 25 and she's the younger sibling.
 
12-23-11, 6:17 PM

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Well, one of the small questions that has been nagging me ever since I started really scrutinizing PH finally got answered; why the Will of the Abyss said that she thought "Red eyes suited Cheshire best".

Seems like the Tragedy of Sablier might've indirectly saved Kevin/Break's life (then again; he's still doomed, still ended up at the core abyss, etc, so maybe not so much), as the Baskervilles weren't active when he was around... But he has been called a "child/cause of misfortune"; vincent said that at the end of chapter 32

Little Oswald and Lacie are entitely adorable.
... Am I the only one that still likes Humpty Dumpty Glen? (Although breaking his promise to Lacie nine times when she has so little time to live is a bit horrible.)

ToshiMonster said:
So old woman Jiri- we haven't seen her around before. If she checked on Glen's, maybe Ozwald/Glen killed her? Or maybe she's still lurking around, even now, since the current Baskervilles apparently


We have seen her before; she's the one that 'brainwashed' Gil in chapter 38. But it would be interesting if she's still around.

That Leo's eyes are so... unique and different from the other glens' has been rather curious to me, I ended up satisfying myself that he's probably different because he was born the head of baskervilles... But who knows what it is...

I am not bruising my head trying to understand any of the Lacie-Alice-B.Rabbit-Oz connection. Just no. I'll be a patient girl and wait for Jun clear that up.... I hope...

That last page with Gil and vince was painfully and depressingly ironic; knowing that (uh, had Certain People not messed with Certain Things) Gil'd (most likely; then again I think the chances of Vincent's heterochromia being random has dwindled) have to throw his little brother in the abyss was a pretty miserable thought. And then I thought to after the whole Tragedy business; and what Gil did when he was first reunited with Vincent at the Nightray's... These characters are so very pitiful. But then again, in Collapse Gil was kind of able to keep his promise, if only that once, and that's some sort of sweet.

I am a little surprised that this chapter didn't connect with the last; there's still a lot we don't know about the Barmas (haha... And not to mention Nightray and Rainsworths, but I'm getting ahead of myself)... Other than Miranda's a cruel, manipulative psychopath that I'm all too happy to hate.

... I really do love this manga. It's all so exciting and complex and delightful...
Modified by Raemya, 12-23-11, 6:29 PM
 
12-24-11, 12:15 AM

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Raemya said:
Am I the only one that still likes Humpty Dumpty Glen?

He's a bit creepy and doesn't seem to be "good boy", but I like him too.)
 
12-24-11, 2:20 AM

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Liinah said:
Barbara-chan said:
Well that makes sence, for Gil and Vincent, but what about Alice? Is she a nother child what was made like an experience? It's sounds a little creepy that Lacie has 4 child:-O

For Gil I think he is soon going to become Glen:/

Somehow the Lacie part made me laugh. XD 4 babies, poor her!
& isn't Leo the "new" Glen?

Leo is Ozwald's reincarnation. Glen was sealed. Ok Leo could be too Glen when the seal had broken, but Jack killed him. The Baskervilles just followed him, because he was the previous Glen, but he isn't becomed Glen, because he didn't have the 5 chain, and of course Glen's soul. But now because the seal had broken, Glen is going to be reborn, and the only one Glen body is exist now is Gil, and he is having Raven too. Gil had Raven once, when he was with Ozwald Glen, but then Miranda camed, and made Vincent to open the gate(I think Vincent's misfortune eye the key to open the gates, and the 5th gate), and everything has becomed worse. Gil loosed Raven, but later he had it again. Duke Barma had said too when Gil screamed, that "then the head was Glen's head", and that is because, he knew that Gil was a Glen body.
cielleia said:
@ToshiMonster

-Oz, who we've defined clearly as a green eyed kid, like Jack, has red eyes here, when he uses B-Rabbit's power at Yura's. Red, Lacie's eye color, the children of misfortune, does all this have a connection to B-Rabbit?

----------------------------------

Alice and Oz's eyes turn red when in B-Rabbit mode, not just Oz, right?

Lacie was also contracted to B-Rabbit. Her eyes were already red though.

For Oz this is just my thought, I think Oz is the real will of the Abyss. He is just similar to Jack because, he hasn't had a real shape, and from Alice memories he choosed this form, because Jack was the most closest person to Alice(and collect him, to destroy it, to protect Alice, this is madness too from him yeahXD). But now he is just sleeping, sometimes woke up, but he is just in a half-a-sleep mode. And the madness too, when he is in that mode, he is become mad, and that is because the Abyss is become mad too, since the time what happened Sablier.

And a nother thought of me, I think who killed Alice was Jack, because for Alice it was a painfull memory, and why could be a painfull memory, if Vincent or Glen killed her? Alice loved Jack, but he killed her, and that is why Alice wanted to forget that person.
For Jack why did he do that, the reason could be anything, we are going to know this soon though.
 
12-24-11, 7:21 AM

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Barbara-chan said:
And a nother thought of me, I think who killed Alice was Jack, because for Alice it was a painfull memory, and why could be a painfull memory, if Vincent or Glen killed her? Alice loved Jack, but he killed her, and that is why Alice wanted to forget that person.
For Jack why did he do that, the reason could be anything, we are going to know this soon though.

Same here, I actually got in a discussion like that once in Mangafox. And I remember reading someone mentioning that the reason Alice cried everytime she remembered something about her memories and everytime she sees Jack as well, is probably sadness tears. Which makes since if he was the one who killed her.
The reason I believe is because he wanted to protect her from being used by Glen the same way Lacie was. I started this thoughts a long time ago, because I was had the feeling that Jack was hiding something behind his smile. i even made a fanfic about him killing her, though it's in portuguese 8D
 
12-24-11, 8:07 AM

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Liinah said:
Barbara-chan said:
And a nother thought of me, I think who killed Alice was Jack, because for Alice it was a painfull memory, and why could be a painfull memory, if Vincent or Glen killed her? Alice loved Jack, but he killed her, and that is why Alice wanted to forget that person.
For Jack why did he do that, the reason could be anything, we are going to know this soon though.

Same here, I actually got in a discussion like that once in Mangafox. And I remember reading someone mentioning that the reason Alice cried everytime she remembered something about her memories and everytime she sees Jack as well, is probably sadness tears. Which makes since if he was the one who killed her.
The reason I believe is because he wanted to protect her from being used by Glen the same way Lacie was. I started this thoughts a long time ago, because I was had the feeling that Jack was hiding something behind his smile. i even made a fanfic about him killing her, though it's in portuguese 8D


That is one of the reasons it could be. But we are going to know this soon:D
 
12-25-11, 1:30 PM

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Ok no one ever said Alyss & Alice were Lacies children....

I think Alice/B-Rabbit and Alyss/Intention of the Abyss are actually each both a half of Lacie. One thing I have to support this is that neither Alice nor Alyss are on a cover when almost any other important person has. Also Alice says she was kept in a tower by Glen, when we first see Lacie in retrace 67 she is in a tower. And both Alice and Alyss appear to be very found of Jack, whom Lacie also appeared to be found of, I don't believe anything about Alice being Jacks daughter it makes no sense. (there were people saying this)

Gil and Vince are surely siblings in a flashback Vincent rembers them in the cage after their mother sold them...

Little Ozwald and Lacie are so cute!

While writing this I came up with another theory...
What if Alice/Alyss are each halves of Lacie because Lacie was sacrificed but her heart wanted to there?

Damn I'm rambling on.......
 
12-25-11, 4:34 PM

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TheWorldIknow said:
I think Alice/B-Rabbit and Alyss/Intention of the Abyss are actually each both a half of Lacie.

I thought Alice and Alyss could be split parts of Lacie, but.. Take a look here. Nurtured in the womb of human.
 
12-26-11, 7:43 AM

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Hm.......*thinking* sigh.....gives up till next chapter.....
Pandora Heart's is such a crazy guessing game.
 
12-29-11, 6:43 AM

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woahhh~
child of misfortune is Lacie and she needs to come back to the abyss, doesn't that mean that she's really the will of abyss?

weee. its like the GLENN is the one who produced those five great chains o ne? and at that time, Glenn needs to produce jabber.... and pass it to Oswald, and then he will throw Lacie to the abyss..

Oswald making face was soooOoooOoo kawaii~ :DD

Somehow, its like the Barkervilles are the legend of PH's world, ne? all of the mysteries came from their family..

children of misfortune eh? So there isn't only one.

Ohhhh~ Experiment of Glen. I wonder what is that? i think it was connected to the two Alice..



 
12-30-11, 10:59 PM

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inn0centdem0n said:
"woahhh~
child of misfortune is Lacie and she needs to come back to the abyss, doesn't that mean that she's really the will of abyss? "



I think the "Will/Intention of the Abyss" is an entirely separate being that can join with another person or thing/object, like Alyss ( White/Sweet Alice ) or other human beings.

The reason Lacie must be thrown into the Abyss is because she is a threat to Glen's life and can communicate and sense the presence of the Core of the Abyss which Glen is only permitted to do at special or urgent times. ( another person said she could hear the voices of the abyss too so to add that doesn't help her chances. )

Although it's possible that Lacie might've "joined" with the Core and ended up as the Will/Intention of the Abyss after she was sent there, I don't believe she started out as the Will/Intention of the Abyss.

- If Lacie did end up as the Will/Intention of the Abyss then why does she call herself Alice/Alyss? Alice and Alyss are twins, Lacie didn't have a twin but an older brother. Unless Jun has another surprise for us, which I won't be surprised at since they seem to enjoy trolling us. c;
❝ & your heart, as it was then, will be on f i r e.

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01-01-12, 6:51 PM

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Maybe Gilbert was chosen as the next "Glen" and had to kill Vincent in the future.
 
01-01-12, 9:08 PM

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YumeFuragumento said:
Maybe Gilbert was chosen as the next "Glen" and had to kill Vincent in the future.


He was supposed to be the next Glen since they were going to transfer Raven and the other chains to him but because he 'disappeared' they put Glen's soul in Leo, like a safe hold. ( right ? )
❝ & your heart, as it was then, will be on f i r e.

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01-07-12, 11:04 PM

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its hard to make theories because i am trying to replace all of the parts of the past with glen instead of jack. it was still glen who locked alice up in the tower. i agree with the theory that alice and abyss are Lacie's children. It makes much more sense. I think Jack was actually interested in alice to begin with because she resembled Lacie. Jack is definitely going to go full psycho mode after he realizes Lacie's death. and I also support the theory that Jack killed alice. Although I remember in one panel a few chapters back that when Oz was remembering Alice's dead body at Sabrie there was a pair of scissors next to her. Does that mean that Vincent killed her? I can't believe I have to wait 10 days for the next chapter...although I just caught up now heheh

I LOVE CONFUSING STORIES! can't get enough

Edit: actually the lacie being the mother theory doesn't make any sense. based on gil and vincents appearance at the end of the chapter alice already had to be near her age in the flashbacks. i still dont understand why she looks so much like lacie tho? maybe she was born in the abyss and spit out at her present age. that would be possible since the abyss ignores the constraints of time. she could still be lacies daughter based on that though. confusinggg
Modified by aelove, 01-07-12, 11:15 PM
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01-09-12, 7:22 AM

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aelove said:
Although I remember in one panel a few chapters back that when Oz was remembering Alice's dead body at Sabrie there was a pair of scissors next to her. Does that mean that Vincent killed her?

A lot of people think this as well, but... it's too obvious. Plus, when Oz got to the tower, Alice was falling dead on the floor, it's impossible for her to die so fast with just a scissor wound. Wouldn't she agonize first or something? Though I can't think of any other way she would die so fast. Maybe she was killed by some chain, idk.
aelove said:
Edit: actually the lacie being the mother theory doesn't make any sense. based on gil and vincents appearance at the end of the chapter alice already had to be near her age in the flashbacks. i still dont understand why she looks so much like lacie tho?

Well, Lacie was really young when Glen first asked her to help him with his experiment, I still think it's possible that she got pregnant. ~
 
01-11-12, 6:08 AM

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Liinah said:
Plus, when Oz got to the tower, Alice was falling dead on the floor, it's impossible for her to die so fast with just a scissor wound. Wouldn't she agonize first or something?

Yeah, it seems Alice had already been dead and her body was just thrown on the floor when Oz got there, but Oz doesn't see who (or what) killed her. I'm not even sure that the murderer's weapon is the scissors we saw there, it could be the same scissors Vince used to pluck out Cheshire's eyes with or something.

I hope we'll get some answers about Alice and her role in all this sometime soon.
Couldn't it be that Glen's experiment had something to do with the B-Rabbit?

Anyway, chapter 69 comes out in Japan in only a week now.
Modified by Amarevia, 01-11-12, 6:16 AM
 
01-11-12, 6:34 PM

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Amarevia said:


Anyway, chapter 69 comes out in Japan in only a week now.


Ooh, it feels like its been forever...

Amarevia said:


I hope we'll get some answers about Alice and her role in all this sometime soon.
Couldn't it be that Glen's experiment had something to do with the B-Rabbit?


Anything seems possible with Glen's experiment atm, who knows...
I'm actually kinda starting to doubt we'll be getting nearly as many answers as we hoped for in this arc (I particularly doubt we'll know the truth about that experiment for a while), and... Alice has been so neglected for quite some time, but I feel like whatever revelations regard her would probably be revealed whenever the focus shifts back to her (in current time).

Speaking of which, I really hope she isn't still fighting with Echo. Hello, girls, you might just want to pay attention to what those other two are doing. That is, if Echo hadn't chased them out of sight, which, I suppose, is possible. I'm actually really interested to see alice'd react to Jack, here (or even how Jack'd react to Alice). Although, then again, perhaps we will get to see more of Alice in the flashback arc, because for the life of me I don't understand Jack's view/attitude towards Alice. Seriously, he was all so cheerful and lighthearted up to right before the tragedy of Sablier (and yes, that was after Lacie was sacrificed - Jack was always shown wearing both earrings). The best insight on the matter I could scrounge up was that "if it's true that every hope has been snatched away, then there won't even be despair left" (ch 37).

Amarevia said:

Yeah, it seems Alice had already been dead and her body was just thrown on the floor when Oz got there, but Oz doesn't see who (or what) killed her. I'm not even sure that the murderer's weapon is the scissors we saw there, it could be the same scissors Vince used to pluck out Cheshire's eyes with or something.


Scissors... Whether or not they were the murdur weapon, they had to be shown for some reason of relevence, and atm the murdur seems the most likely candidate. Knowing this author, I won't bet on it. But, in any case, I know the scissors that were shown with Alice's corpse are almost certainly the ones Vince used against Cheshire , and definitely the pair Vince found laying around in Alice's tower and used to mutilate dolls after their first encounter. What's interesting, though, is that the scissors Vince was using when he was tearing up the corpses in Sablier are not .

On another note, I wonder if Lacie's just gone and done now (other than an explanation of the experiment), or if we'll actually see her at the darkness of the Abyss and perhaps interacting with the core/presence there.
Modified by Raemya, 01-11-12, 6:48 PM
 
01-14-12, 5:52 AM

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Aw yeah, it's possible. I've had this idea for a while now that Alice will be the cover character of the last volume and will get a big role only then.
Still, I'd really like to know more about her and her relationship with Jack. She is supposed to be the heroine of the story, Jun really should give her a bit more screentime (pagetime? lol) after neglecting her for so long. D: And Jack's attitude is a complete mystery to me, the only thing I know is that he's opposing the Baskervilles and would do anything to stop Glen. And that his cheerful attitude is only a facade.

Raemya said:

Scissors... Whether or not they were the murdur weapon, they had to be shown for some reason of relevence, and atm the murdur seems the most likely candidate. Knowing this author, I won't bet on it. But, in any case, I know the scissors that were shown with Alice's corpse are almost certainly the ones Vince used against Cheshire , and definitely the pair Vince found laying around in Alice's tower and used to mutilate dolls after their first encounter. What's interesting, though, is that the scissors Vince was using when he was tearing up the corpses in Sablier are not .


Ha! That's interesting. =D
 
01-14-12, 6:29 AM

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Amarevia said:
And Jack's attitude is a complete mystery to me, the only thing I know is that he's opposing the Baskervilles and would do anything to stop Glen. And that his cheerful attitude is only a facade.

That's something I still don't get it, Jack seems really friendly with Glen now that he's using Oswald body, smiling and so, and I'm pretty sure this happened after Lacie was sacrificed. I don't get why he moved on so fast and forgave Glen, plus, I don't think he killing Glen in the Sablier Tragedy was revenge either.
 
04-20-12, 1:25 AM

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uhm. okay. so am i the only one who thinks it's really weird that the next vessels for 'Glen Baskerville' all have brother/sister with red eye(s)?

And Glen... I mean Oswald was far too calm and relaxed even with the knowledge of his sister being thrown into abyss, and his soul to be exterminated from his body. I mean, how the hell these siblings could be so calm with the thoughts of their deaths? And Jack looked more and more like psycho...

And I can't believe that Revis was a pedo -___- Lacie was like, twenty-or-more times younger than he was! That's just sick >__>

Sad that these siblings would kill each other in the end though...
 
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