MyAnimeList.net

Manga Information
Forums

Recent Posts | My Watched Topics | My Ignored Topics | Search

Claymore Chapter 121 Discussion
MyAnimeList.net Forum »» Manga Discussion »» Series Discussion »» Claymore »» Claymore Chapter 121 Discussion

Pages (4) « 1 2 [3] 4 »
View Poll Results: Claymore Chapter 121 Discussion
5 out of 5: Loved it!
 
24 55.81%
4 out of 5: Liked it
 
11 25.58%
3 out of 5: It was OK
 
6 13.95%
2 out of 5: Disliked it
 
1 2.33%
1 out of 5: Hated it
 
1 2.33%
Voters: 43

12-14-11, 7:28 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 651
HegemonKhan said:
As to whether Irene-Ilena-Ilene is dead, it depends upon whether Rafaela executed her or not.

The evidence though is that Irene-Ilena-Ilene is most likely dead, killed by Rafaela.

---------------

P.S.

I'm going back to using jsut Irene now, as I'm getting sick of writing the all 3 versions of her name, lol


Exkalamity said:
Ilene =/= Irene at all. Totally sound different, even in Engrish....
and lol Irene coming back would be absolute madness, though we would have to explain how she survived for seven years with no arms. Perhaps she awakened....


Excuse me if my english is lame.

Nobody know what was happened to Ilena in the chapter 38, except Clare who has the memory of Rafaela, it is very weird isn't it ?

Rafaela wished to kill her sister before and when she saw her in the chapter 64(she already had her sword in her hand), she changed her descision. Why not the same thing with Ilena ?

And Mr Exkalamity I told in my previous post : she will have the left arm of Ophelia and the right arm of Flora.

If Ilena was awakened, Clare would feel it. Maybe Rafaela give her pills to delete her youki.
 
12-15-11, 5:51 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3905
They did look fairly boring for abyssal ones compared to the others.
 
12-15-11, 12:56 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 651
I wonder if Clare won't fuse with Pricillia... Of course after a fight of spirit !

We need some data on the Blob, maybe in 2 weeks ...
 
12-16-11, 1:02 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 259
Irene's Arm on Clare did twitch at roughly the same time that Rafaela would be killing Irene, so it's more likely that indeed Irene is dead, killed by Rafaela.

Also, Rafaela has no qualms about killing her fellow Claymores, as the only one she cares about is her beloved older sister Luciela, and Rubel is using his information ABOUT Luciela to "own" Rafaela as his "pawn". And so, Rafaela will do whatever Rubel wants of her, and/or whatever she needs to do, for her beloved older sister Luciela, and Rafaela's mission to save-protect Luciela by returning her to being a Claymore or a Human possibly from being an Awakened, an AO. Rafaela would gladly kill all of her fellow Claymores, if it meant she could get her beloved older sister Luciela back. And indeed she did kill some or maybe many Claymores as the Org's... well Rubel's... "Assassin of the Org". Also, she thought that she what she was doing, was going to sacrifice her own life force, to give to her just killed Luciela by her own hands, and so to revive Luciela from the dead as a Claymore or possibly a Human. At least that's what Rubel told her would happen though he likely was actually telling her how to creater an Uber Awakened... my theory anyways in conjunction with Rubel's mysterious information ABOUT Luciela, hehe.
Modified by HegemonKhan, 12-16-11, 1:08 PM
 
12-20-11, 3:19 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 651
First Rafaela made a mere contract with the Organization thanks to Rubul. Rafaela only needed informations on Luciela. As she said to find Ilena was very hard and the organization didn't send someone for spying Rafaela... Then Rafaela could lie easily on her mission.


Clare felt a change in Ilena's yoki (she turned around and said :" Ilena !") and after that, her new right arm made a noise like a heartbeat (chapter 38).
Ilena told Rafaela : "As strong you are, why have you stopped at number 5 ?" And Before that Ilena asked her something about her left eye. Then Ilena heard about Rafaela 21 years ago (until now) in this time Ilena was a trainee like Teresa (chapter 64).

Maybe Ilena heard about a story on a Abyssal one which borned on the lands of the Organisation when she was a trainee, or she read the report on Rafaela & Luciela. Maybe the discussion between Ilena and Rafaela was more longer. And Rafaela decided to save Ilena for some reasons.


In the war of Pieta the organization lost a lot female warriors (24 warriors) and other female warriors died in other situations :

-Ophelia (killed by Clare)

-Elena (killed by Clare. She sent a black card to Clare)

-Jean's friends (killed by Riful & Duff),

- Eva and her friends (killed by awakened beings of the North)


the organization lost 33 female warriors very fast in this generation.


Do you really think the organization wished that a powerful female warrior like Rafeala go away ?......Mostly after the war of Pieta, with the arriving of many awakened beings ? The organization never gave to Rafaela informations on Luciela, they were afraid that Rafaela disappear . Once Rafaela had informations on her sister, she did't need the organization anymore. And I am sure Ilena told Rafaela something like : "The organization needs you too much, they won't tell you nothing on your sister !"


And until now we have no real proof about the Ilena's death. Nobody in the manga talk about the Ilena's death.
 
12-20-11, 9:45 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 259
Rafaela wasn't exactly very talkative to Irene:

Rafaela responding curtly to Irene's interrogation: ~"I have no need to speak, as you're going to be dead in the next second, a corpse has no use for my answers"

------------------------

Also, I don't see any signs of recognition by Irene. She's merely aware that this is no "rank 5", as she knows well about powerful Claymores... Teresa and then Priscilla, poor Irene. Surely, just from one look at Rafaela, and Irene know she was dealing with a Claymore quite possibly (my theory anyways) in the SAME Elite league as that of Teresa and Priscilla, the Claymores who are beyond a rank 1.

-------------------------

The Org doesn't care even about its Rank 1 Claymores! And personally I'm not sure how dependant the Org's BCs actually are upon their rank 1 Claymores to protect them from the AOs or other threats...

As much as the Org seems to be in desperation throwing first their AFs and now 3 AOs, while hiding inside, Rimuto is far to calm and cool, he and the Org still have a "trump card" should they need it, they'd just rather not expose that "trump card" if they can help it. Rimuto could possibly be an unber powerful Awakened.

And, then we've got Rubel... fearlessly outside... or is he too powerful to be killed, hehe :D (Ya, Dae is outside too, but he's too excited this time to care about his own survival, lol. But, meh, maybe he too is uber powerful, hehe)
Modified by HegemonKhan, 12-20-11, 9:49 PM
 
12-21-11, 1:56 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 651
I very disagree with you

First : Rafeala told Ilena why she came to her (her mission), and how she succeeded to find her. Ilena asked her name, and Rafaela introduced herself to Ilena (her name ans her number).

Rafaela talked about the other person who was with Ilena, before Ilena began to talk.

Rafaela has twice more balloons than Ilena (chapter 38), then Rafaela talked more than Ilena in this chapter.

Second : How could Ilena feel Rafaela's power (yoki) ?? The Rafaela's yoki was sealed. Ilena could not guess the Rafaela's level of power.

The organization gave Rafaela the number 5 because, there is a deep difference between the number 5 and the number 6 (Miria's words in the chapter 31) and among the 5 first female warriors of the organization she was the only one who had her yoki sealed.

Third : As I told you ,Rafaela talked about the other person who was with Ilena, before Ilena began to talk. Indeed Rafaela felt another yoki (Clare's yoki). After that Rafaela told Ilena : It was a mistake to practice your "Quick sword technique", because of that you are radiating yoma energy like a normal warrior.
After Rafaela noticed Ilena has not her arms anymore. Why did Ilena release her yoki with her quick sword and cut her last arm after ? It made no sense for Rafaela (and me too). Rafaela understood that Ilena gave her right arm to the other person who was with Ilena before her meeting with Ilena. (chpater 38)

In the chapter 50 Rafaela found Clare and Jean in a forest (Rafaela felt their yoki). I am sure Rafaela recognized the female warrior's yoki who was with Ilena before her meeting with Ilena. And that female warrior was Clare.

And a question for you : Why did not Rafaela make a report for the organization on the Clare's new right arm ?

Fourth : master rimuto, a awakened being, it is impossible !!!!
 
12-21-11, 6:12 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 259
amenboy972 said:
I very disagree with you

First : Rafeala told Ilena why she came to her (her mission), and how she succeeded to find her. Ilena asked her name, and Rafaela introduced herself to Ilena (her name ans her number).

Rafaela talked about the other person who was with Ilena, before Ilena began to talk.

Rafaela has twice more balloons than Ilena (chapter 38), then Rafaela talked more than Ilena in this chapter.

Second : How could Ilena feel Rafaela's power (yoki) ?? The Rafaela's yoki was sealed. Ilena could not guess the Rafaela's level of power.

The organization gave Rafaela the number 5 because, there is a deep difference between the number 5 and the number 6 (Miria's words in the chapter 31) and among the 5 first female warriors of the organization she was the only one who had her yoki sealed.

Third : As I told you ,Rafaela talked about the other person who was with Ilena, before Ilena began to talk. Indeed Rafaela felt another yoki (Clare's yoki). After that Rafaela told Ilena : It was a mistake to practice your "Quick sword technique", because of that you are radiating yoma energy like a normal warrior.
After Rafaela noticed Ilena has not her arms anymore. Why did Ilena release her yoki with her quick sword and cut her last arm after ? It made no sense for Rafaela (and me too). Rafaela understood that Ilena gave her right arm to the other person who was with Ilena before her meeting with Ilena. (chpater 38)

In the chapter 50 Rafaela found Clare and Jean in a forest (Rafaela felt their yoki). I am sure Rafaela recognized the female warrior's yoki who was with Ilena before her meeting with Ilena. And that female warrior was Clare.

And a question for you : Why did not Rafaela make a report for the organization on the Clare's new right arm ?

Fourth : master rimuto, a awakened being, it is impossible !!!!


1. And all of these comments by Rafaela were formal and business-like only.

2. Irene couldn't Yoki Sense Rafaela's power (unless Irene is an equal or a better Yoki Sensor than Teresa, neither of which she isn't. Teresa as a mere Trainee could Yoki Sense NYS Rafaela, which not even Blind Galatea could sense the NYS Ghosts, hehe)

Irene knew Rafaela was powerful the "conventional" way, through experience.

I for example, from just one single look, tell if I could win in a fight against someone or in how strong they are. All the subtle cues that only those with experience are able to look for and notice-see in someone :D

Like being a body language expert (or you don't have to be officially-statusly one as well), you can tell who's lying and who's not.

Mike Tyson's coach, could tell Mike (as a kid) would become the best boxer in the world

etc etc etc

3. Irene had NYS* status too, which is why Rafaela couldn't find her, unlike Irene used her QS on Claymore Ophelia and in training Clare.

*NYS=Natural Yoki Suppression. Achieved through not using Yoki ever (or hardly ever) and/or not using Yoki for a very long time.**

**Those who had NYS status: Exiled-Banished Rafaela, Teresa, Claymore Priscilla, Awakened Priscilla, Deserter Irene, the 7 Ghosts (Miria, Clare, Deneve, Helen, Cynthia, Tabatha, and Yuma), and maybe Deserter Galatea. All no longer have their NYS status, except maybe Tabatha, hehe.

4. Don't forget that it was Rubel+Rafaela who found Clare+Jean, she's working for (actually she's his "pawn", due to blackmail by) Rubel, unknown by the Organization.

5. About Clare: It's possible that Rafaela was also under orders by Rubel to find Clare, as well as to assassinate his one witness, Irene. hehe :D Hence Rafaela questioning Irene. Again, pure business... hehe

6. Rimuto... I wouldn't be surprised if he were an uber Awakened (along with Rubel too)...

also, there's something peculiar about Rimuto:

he has on armor underneath his "black coats", and a metal collar around his neck...

a metal collar around his neck is suspicious... as an Awakened, that would be quite handy to have, to protect against decapition, lol.

Also... there is the YSPs (Yoki Suppression Pills)... lots of issues with those... :D
 
12-24-11, 5:07 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 651
HegemonKhan said:
Don't forget that it was Rubel+Rafaela who found Clare+Jean, she's working for (actually she's his "pawn", due to blackmail by) Rubel, unknown by the Organization.




Only Rafaela found Clare and Jean in the forest for Rubul because Jean and Clare didn't feel yoki when they were close to Rafaela and Rubul. Then Rubul is a human.

The way Rubul found Rafaela in the chapter 64 is very weird, but maybe there were spies who followed Rafaela during those 7 years to know if Rafaela awoke.


HegemonKhan said:
About Clare: It's possible that Rafaela was also under orders by Rubel to find Clare, as well as to assassinate his one witness, Irene. hehe :D Hence Rafaela questioning Irene. Again, pure business... hehe



I thought about a secret contract between Dae and Rafeala. Rafaela brought Ilena alive to Dae, and Dae gave Rafaela data on Luciela and Issley's purposes.

Dae made some scientific experiences on Ilena. It is the job of the Dae's team to recover the female warriors's corpses. Maybe Dae Kept Ophelia's corpse to make scientific experiences.


HegemonKhan said:
6. Rimuto... I wouldn't be surprised if he were an uber Awakened (along with Rubel too)...

also, there's something peculiar about Rimuto:

he has on armor underneath his "black coats", and a metal collar around his neck...

a metal collar around his neck is suspicious... as an Awakened, that would be quite handy to have, to protect against decapition, lol.

Also... there is the YSPs (Yoki Suppression Pills)... lots of issues with those... :D



For now in the manga the situation is chaotic in the organization with the 3 new abyssal ones. Master Rimuto is quiet, maybe because he knows a hidden place in the organisation to protect him if the Abyssal ones kill the Deneve Team, Miria, the Twins and the other female warriors.
 
12-26-11, 12:30 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 259
The problem with Dae, that's purely created by you, your own fancy or belief, as the manga shows no interaction between Dae and any Claymore, but with Rubel, it sure does. It's empirical-factual right from the manga, whereas it's not with Dae.
 
12-26-11, 7:51 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 651
HegemonKhan said:
The problem with Dae, that's purely created by you, your own fancy or belief, as the manga shows no interaction between Dae and any Claymore, but with Rubel, it sure does. It's empirical-factual right from the manga, whereas it's not with Dae.


so what ?

Dae is a man in black like another. The Dae's team have more tasks than the others (to recover the female warriors's corpses)
There are a lot of men in black that we never saw with a female warrior, because there are less females warriors than the previous generations (chapter 66 and 74)

Dae talked to Roxanne, Cassandra and Hysteria when they awoke (chapter 115).

The place where Ophelia was killed is not far to the Ilena's house. so Dae should have the Ilena's corpse and Mister Rimuto or Rubul never talk about that, but they talk about Ophelia's corpse (chapter 41). Why ?

And your story with Master Rimuto is so powerful and so nice, ho my god !!! narf narf narf!!!
 
12-27-11, 4:45 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 259
terribly sorry, for the badly phrased previous post of mine.

I'm not saying that you can't be nor aren't correct, merely that Dae doesn't have the manga content support to back up your view that Rubel does for my view.
 
12-27-11, 1:31 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 651
No problemo

I think that maybe Ilena's death has not yet been confirmed, because Norihiro Yagi want to increase the curiosity of the readers. But it is very weird that the only one character who knows the truth about that is invalid for now...

In that manga there was another purge which failed, the Galatea's purge (chapter 79).

So, take that :http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1340241869
Modified by amenboy972, 12-27-11, 2:05 PM
 
12-27-11, 2:00 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 259
from the literary stance, it is unlikely that Irene (and Renee too) are still alive. Too much time has passed... with them being gone or missing.

Yagi would never have a character "brought back from the grave twice". That's poor writing.

Miria and Irene have already been "brought back from the grave once", and so Irene is likely dead this time around with Rafaela, and should Miria die again, it'll be for good.
 
12-27-11, 2:16 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 651
Miria already came back from the grave twice :
After the war of Pieta : chapter 61 & chapter 66
In the organization's HQ chapter 107 and chapter 113
 
12-27-11, 5:59 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 259
True, about Pieta Battle, but I'd say that's a bit of a special and "stand alone" case, as at least half the purpose of the Pieta Battle was a way of the Org to "cleanse-purge" (execute-kill off) those "Troublesome" 24 Claymores, without having their own "hands stained or being able to be accused of their actual intent of malice".

and if you want to get more technical... Clare should have been dead (or Awakened) many many many times, too. Clare has technically "come back from the grave many times".

My statement was more in this loose-general manor and not so specific or technical or special cases-exceptions as there are.

---------

and again, the point of my (badly done-used) statement is that of the literary, poor writing-story telling.

you can only use a surprise once. If you have a haunted house full of surprises, all of those additional "surprises" aren't surprises, as you're now ready for them or aspecting them more and more with after each additional surprise. Same with a horror movie too, the more surprises, the less you are surprised ("jump up in your seat") by them.

this applies to writing-story telling, to literary.

having a character "come back from the grave" is a surprise, but do it a second or third or fourth, becomes very lame and boring (DBZ, Bleach, Naruto, and etc... with their "Insta-magically" power ups after a beatdown, over and over). thus, it is very bad writing-story telling to have a character "come back from the grave twice or more times".

Aizen being revealed as the villain was excellent in Bleach, but what if there was another such plot twist and another and another, they'd not have that same excellence, that same shock value, as did Aizen's revealing as being the villain.

Irene being revealed to have actually survived Priscilla was excellent, NO ONE could have foreseen-guessed that, as there wasn't anything for us to know, hehe.

Having Irene still alive after Rafaela, would just be lame. Irene has already fulllfilled her purpose, let her "Exit in glory", same with Teresa too, let Teresa remain dead, as the Legendary Ultimate Being, even more powerful than Awakened Priscilla, hehe :D

Renee could be brought back like Irene was, but I just don't see how it could be done for significant purpose, in how it could be done well... Irene's "comeback" was excellent and significant... saving Clare from trully about to being killed by Ophelia, hehe, and then in cheering up Clare about being responsible for Teresa's death, and finally in teaching Clare the QS, Yoki Focusing Ability, and giving Clare her Arm, so that Clare again has two arms.

The same applies to Riful as well... I don't see any way for Riful to be "brought back" with any type of significance, in a well-done way...
Modified by HegemonKhan, 12-27-11, 6:26 PM
 
12-30-11, 10:22 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 651
With the war of Pieta the organisation " killed two birds with one stone" 7 years ago :

- it gave the organisation more time for the twins's training (Alicia and Beth)

- it was a way to kill the half-awakened female warriors.



I think the case of Clare is very different than the other female warriors :

-she has the flesh and blood of Smile Teresa which give her a powerful reading of yoki.

-she was in the Phantom Miria's team during the hunt of the awakened being of the Paburo Moutain.

-she fought against Ophélia and Ilena came save her, and got a powerful right arm.

-she killed Ophelia

-when she saved Jean she began to master the quick sword.

-she killed Rigald the "Silver-Eyed Lion King" with a partially-awakened form..... And you know the rest 7 years later.


The hard way that Clare chose, make her more and more stronger than before. Sincerely I think, it is her destiny to survive and to arrive where she is for now, and with the Rafaela's memories she has a purpose to accomplish.


Ilena and Renee (the number 6) are female warriors who disappeared for a period long or short (the Yagi's choices). Their deaths are not confirmed until now.


For Clare and Pricillia we could say the same thing but, there is a single difference : we know where they are ! ---> so they are alive.



Conclusion : For now they all are extra characters (in the set / in the scenery).... Galatea too, Miata too, Clarisse too.
 
09-12-12, 11:25 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4460
Good it took them a long time to arrive. At least they saved Miria from awakening (imagine that!)
If you reply to one of my comments, please PM or write on my wall me so I can read/respond in kind. I won't bite, I promise.
 
06-14-13, 4:09 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3152
Hysteria looks so horribly.

Anyway, Justice League is here to save the day. Nothing to worry about.
 
12-26-13, 2:45 PM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 241
n10sity said:
Ani-Blast said:


Exkalamity said:
I feel like these new abyssal ones are lacking the creativity and sheer horror that the original awakened beings instilled.


Well, don't forget the fact that the 3 abyssal one's we're used to were gradually and naturally produced.


I don't believe these new abyssal ones are lacking in creativity or any less menacing per say than the original abyssal ones. But I do feel that the original abyssal ones had an air of invincibility and power that has been all but utterly destroyed by this point. The term abyssal ones doesn't have the same chill (down spine) factor as it once manufactured in the reader. It's all Priscilla's fault. I hate her. She's so broken.
I think Roxanne herself as a Claymore is more menacing than just about anything in the series. She gives me the chills.
Interested in Japanese dance songs? See this thread: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=702085
 
Top
Pages (4) « 1 2 [3] 4 »
Help     FAQ     About     Contact     Terms     Privacy     AdChoices