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Pandora Hearts Chapter 66 Discussion
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View Poll Results: Pandora Hearts Chapter 66 Discussion
5 out of 5: Loved it!
 
42 73.68%
4 out of 5: Liked it
 
15 26.32%
3 out of 5: It was OK
 
0.00%
2 out of 5: Disliked it
 
0.00%
1 out of 5: Hated it
 
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Voters: 57

#1
10-17-11, 7:23 AM

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THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
----------------------------------------
Spoilers are out.
"stepyip35" said:
巴魯瑪公知道封印石裡是格連的頭顱。亞瑟-巴魯瑪的筆記是他的懺悔的記憶
Rufus Barma knew that it was Glen's head in the sealing stone. Rufus Barma recorded his regretful memories in his diary.
內容全部都是傑克和蕾西的相遇
This chapter is about Jack and Lacie's encounter
從正在乞討的傑克和蕾西的相遇開始
Starting when Jack met Lacie when he was still a beggar.
傑克是貝薩流士家小妾的孩子,母親也是個歇斯底里的人,生活十分不幸
Jack was the child of one of the concubines of the Vessalius household, his mother had a hysterical personality, he had an extremely unlucky life.
蕾西對傑克說沒有錢的話可以去偷、去賣身,傑克拒絕了。
Lacie told Jack that he could always steal or even sell himself if he didn't have any money, Jack refused.
蕾西說自己討厭常識什麼的。蕾西是兩隻眼睛都是紅色的罪禍之子。唱著天真的歌曲。面對為了喜歡的曲子而笑的 她,傑克也第一次露出了笑容。
Lacie states that she hates common sense (?) and whatnot. Lacie was also 'The cause of misfortune' with red eyes, singing an innocent song. Seeing Lacie, who laughed because of her love for that song, Jack smiled for the first time.
因為罪禍之子可以賣到很高的價錢,類似人販子的人襲擊了兩人。傑克負傷了,說著“居然敢弄傷我喜歡的人,膽 子倒是不小”的蕾西,用鎖鏈將人販子秒殺。鎖鏈的全貌沒有顯示出來,但是可以看到和奧茲一樣的鎖。傑克被在 血雨中快樂的唱著跳著的蕾西的身影迷住了。
Because 'The cause of misfortune' could be sold at a very high price, some people, who seemed to be traffickers, attacked them. Jack was injured and Lacie, who was saying "How dare you hurt the person I like", killed those traffickers with chains. The chains were not fully revealed, but you can see that those chains are the same as Oz's. Jack was captivated by Lacie, who was dancing and singing gleefully in a shower of blood.
這時紅斗篷的巴斯卡比魯登場。叱責蕾西在沒得到格連大人允許的情況下外出。其中一個巴斯卡比魯對蕾西傳達了 Oswald(オズワルド)說會向她道歉這個信息。蕾西高興的笑了
Right at that moment, the Baskervilles made their appearance. They reproached Lacie for going out without Glen's permission. One of the Baskervilles passed Lacie a message, saying that Oswald (?)(オズワルド)will be apologizing to her. Lacie smiled happily.
蕾西對傑克說雖然可惜,也只能和你在此告別了。但是聽到傑克說想再見到的話就一定能再會,自己絕不會忘記巴 斯卡比魯這個名字時,蕾西把戴著的一隻耳環給了傑克。(也就是傑克一直戴著的耳環)。
Lacie told Jack that "It's a pity, but I'll have to part with you here". But after hearing Jack say that "If we really want to see each other again, we will, I will never forget the name 'Baskerville' " , Lacie then gave Jack one of her earrings . (The earrings that Jack has been wearing all this time)
傑克向和巴斯卡比魯一同離開的蕾西伸出手。
Jack reached out to Lacie and the Baskervilles, who were leaving.
想著雖然自己是死是活都無所謂,但是到和蕾西重逢為止,想見她,想見她,想再見到一次她的心情十分強烈。( 這裡有傑克當男妓的暗示畫面)
Jack had always thought that it didn't matter whether he was dead or not, but ever since he met Lacie, he wanted to see her, Jack's wanted to see Lacie really badly.
(Here's the translation of the spoiler in brackets. Please be mentally prepared because my brain crumbled into pieces after reading this)
There are hints of Jack being a male prostitute
使用了各種手段,終於讓自己能在社交場合以“貝薩流士家的傑克大人”的名義介紹給女士們。
By using various methods, Jack was finally able to introduce himself to the ladies during social gatherings as 'Jack from the Vessalius household"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The translation is NOT mine, I have found it on mangafox.
It looks interesting, doesn't it? It seems that Jack became a male prostitute to meet Lacie again. Somehow, I'm not surprised.
Something makes me think that, when this manga ends, Glen, who ordered to kill people in Sabrie, will be the sanest person of them all.
Modified by Lain666, 10-17-11, 7:30 AM
“All the evidence shows that God was actually quite a gambler, and the universe is a great casino, where dice are thrown, and roulette wheels spin on every occasion.” - Stephen Hawking
 
#2
10-17-11, 11:08 AM

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Ahh nice, the trinity idea is coming together now. ^_^ Lacies IS just like Alyss/Alice, AND she has the B-Rabbit power. Those Baskerville women, they all be crayzee! XD

And she told Jack to be a prostitute? Haha, that's awesome. I'd buy him!! :D
 
#3
10-17-11, 12:02 PM

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Now that Jack turned out to be a gigolo, I wonder how many fans he will have?

Another thing I have been thinking about is why Laice's tomb is in a property of the Vessalius, not of the Baskervilles.
“All the evidence shows that God was actually quite a gambler, and the universe is a great casino, where dice are thrown, and roulette wheels spin on every occasion.” - Stephen Hawking
 
#4
10-17-11, 12:36 PM

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I'm not quite sure where her tomb is. I kind of assume it's Vessalius property since that's where Oz's coming of age ceremony was, and it's not in Sablier where the Baskerville mansion was... but did the Vessalius always own it?

Oz didn't grow up there, as if the Vessalius actually *live* somewhere else: "It is a beautiful mansion, isn't it? Word has it that it was built over 200 years ago, but now it's only used for the Coming of Age ceremony. You can seldom come here, so think of it as a strange party of sorts and enjoy yourself!"

That mansion is also where the Clock Tower of Silence is, the clock that stopped ticking 100 years ago. It's linked to a prophecy: "When the one whom we await descends upon the promised land, the bell will toll to break the silence." Yura had a clock tower like that in his mansion (here + 2 pages), and when it reached midnight he said "lets reenact the tragedy." Seems important. The Clock Tower of Silence was stuck right before midnight, and when Oz touched it it moved to midnight position.

In that Pandora Hearts pilot, it's said that Black Rabbit controls time.

Anyway, point being, seems like the clock is tied to the Sablier tragedy somehow, but it's not located in Sablier. It's at the now-Vessalius mansion. And is that mansion even owned by Vessalius? Or is it some national landmark because of the prophecy so everybody goes there?

...where was I going with this? >.
 
#5
10-17-11, 6:42 PM

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Neiru2012 said:
The Clock Tower of Silence was stuck right before midnight, and when Oz touched it it moved to midnight position.
In that Pandora Hearts pilot, it's said that Black Rabbit controls time.


Very nice point/connection. I haven't ever made much notice of that (don't even remember Black Rabbit controls time!).

I'm very happy about this chapter's recent developments. I actually was never a big fan of Jack before, but I definitely am now. The fact that Jack may really have sold himself as a prostitute adds some tragic element to his character that somehow makes him feel more realistic. This is the type of thing that many anime/manga shy away from in fear of causing controversy, losing fans, etc., but I appreciate that Pandora Hearts is taking step into this.

Since it's more or certain that both Alices are part of a whole, I had better start paying more attention to this manga, as it's sure to resolve soon, and I won't understand the ending well, I feel, if I hadn't a deeper understanding of the plot. Time to re-read a couple of chapters, oh well :/

(I have long-term memory issues)
[An incredibly creative signature]
 
#6
10-17-11, 6:52 PM

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OMGGGGGGG. i knew, i knew * whispers of relief* i knew my Jack was not the source of evil. It was Lacie, just like i thought. not saying she is also totally evil, but she seems to be pretty sadistic...

Still...
why did she love Jack, if she just met him? perhaps she met him before, but he was too young to remember her... If Lacie is a contractor, she does not age, right? Lacie you pedophile.

iofjdhsfhjfh*nosebleeds*
Jack as a male prostitute T_T what a guy must do for love, oh damn you Lacie.

Seriously now...i really pity Jack. What a terrible childhood. Anyone in his situation would get mental scars. Now that i know what he´s been through, ill definitely keep supporting him even if he turns into evil mode.

Jack T_T
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#7
10-17-11, 9:58 PM

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Oh yes, I'm sure Jack had a horrible time charming the skirts off noble ladies. XD

I kid. I know he had a terribly rough childhood, and I love him all the more for it. Obviously his career would have to start with much more unpleasant customers. I mean, if he started out as young as we saw him on the street, he'd have a harder time attracting female clientele. That age caters to the "creepy old man" demographic. ~_~

I just hope nobody's gonna accuse him of being a gold digger with Glen now. =/ Though it might explain why Glen kept him around 8D... Whatever way that relationship started, Jack and Glen became genuine best friends.

Speaking of Lacie hating "common sense," I was reminded of the Alice quote from the Disney cartoon: "If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?"

And about the earrings Lacie gave Jack. They gotta be some kind of magical mood ring earrings, lol. They change color from blue to red!! (scroll down for pictures) What's up with that??

Ohhh, and this explains the amount of sympathy Jack had for finding Vince and Gil like that. And why he told Vince to be proud of his eyes. SO CUTE!! *_*
 
#8
10-18-11, 3:38 AM

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Aaah, I'm so glad we could finally learn something about Lacie and Jack. I'm definitely starting to like Jack even more.
My only problem with this chapter is that apparently, there is no Break, Vincent or Gil in it, but otherwise cool chapter. XD
I can't wait to see the raw/scanlation.

And lol, the earrings... They were purple in the anime. XD
 
#9
10-18-11, 4:50 AM
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LQ scan of the chapter is out.

Nice haircut of Jack by outgoing, no... creepy, Lucie. She's like another Alice (Intention of Abyss?). What she said at the end makes me think that my thought is correct about Lucie = another Alice.

And Jack became evil just to meet her?
Modified by tsubasalover, 10-18-11, 5:09 AM
I Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!!

 
10-18-11, 4:56 AM

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Neiru2012 said:Oh yes, I'm sure Jack had a horrible time charming the skirts off noble ladies. XD
I kid. I know he had a terribly rough childhood, and I love him all the more for it. Obviously his career would have to start with much more unpleasant customers. I mean, if he started out as young as we saw him on the street, he'd have a harder time attracting female clientele. That age caters to the "creepy old man" demographic. ~_~
And about the earrings Lacie gave Jack. They gotta be some kind of magical mood ring earrings, lol. They change color from blue to red!!


LOL, well, sometimes, even if you are with 100 people or have 100 girlfriends, it really doesnt matter, because all you want is to be near the person u really love *vomits a rainbow*
Jack was that case, i mean, if even now, after being "dead" he still searches and does everything for Lacie, she is HIS LIFE. Basically he does not have a reason to live without her. Im not sure if the love he fel already went away and is now more like an obsession...
i believe Jack saved the siblings because he was reminded of how he was and that he lived the same hard life, but mostly, ofc, he didnt save them just for that, otherwise we would have saved others before and he didnt, and if he saved every child in the street, he would have an orphanage filled with kids, lol.
And then, finally we know, that it was for Vincent, for sure! Vincent having a red eye, made Jack remember Lacie, and so, he took him and took Gil probably only because Gil was Vince´s brother. ofc, later, his servant would be Vince and not Gil.
And there we reach the conclusion why Vince always loved Jack so much too. Gil´s memories can be fake, but i believe Vince kept his real memories.
the earrings...hum. good point. im curious about them. yes, they change color, how odd. Ive seen them in the manga being blue, red, purple, green.
and another curiosity is that, violet eye color is considered to be most close color to "red" in the eye color classification. (i google it) lol, Alice and Alyss have Violet eyes, Lacie has red eyes...and they almost have the same face, and definitely the same hair. So they definitely are very related.

EDIT: my thoughts after seeing the raws:

Lacie really resembles me the personality of Alyss.
Jack seems like a Oz clone!!!! the resemblance is just sooo... oh men.
Lacie really liked Jack, after all. oh Lacie, now i love u T_T
Lacie controlled the B-Rabbit!!!?
ok, Lacie singing and dancing in the rain of blood of the men she killed was kinda creepy, but at least she saved Jack...
And Lacie blushing when the baskervilles tell her something ( someone that translated mentioned a guy, probably that Oswald was waiting for her) [who is that guy? and Oswald? maybe it was OZwald who was waiting XP]

and oh f***! its true. Jack not only became a gigolo (for females and just like Neiru said...for old men too! T_T) as well as a killer. He killed for money too, probably went to steal and than stabbed the victim, because he appears with a knife all bloody).

oh my, excellent chapter, cant wait for the full translation.
Modified by Orulyon, 10-18-11, 5:24 AM
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10-18-11, 8:34 AM

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Reposting this here:

My english isn't that great, so I hope you guys understand what I'm saying, but here's what I'm thinking.

Lacie = original B-rabbit and alyss
Oz = Jack
Alice = daughter of Glen and Lacie
Alyss = mother of Alice

Basically, Lacie got pregnant with Glen's child (I assume Glen has purple eyes). Soon after the pregnancy she was sacrificed and cast to the abyss. Alice was born in the human world as half chain. She still ages because a part of her is still human, alyss however doesn't age. That's why they look about the same age. Whenever Alice uses the power of B-rabbit, her eyes will turn red. That's because she inhereted the chain part from her mother, who has red eyes. This also explains why Jack is so fond of Alyss. When Alice got killed in the human... ok I'm stuck here. I might've forgotten, but did it ever say in the manga what happens to a chain when it dies? I thought they'd get send back to the abyss, which might explain why Alice was there at the start of the manga.

Then again, I should probably re-read the manga. I've forgotten a lot of facts, so this theorie will probably make no sense. Oh and I haven't seen chapter 66 yet, so I'll probably edit this after I've read it.

Edit: These raws aren't making me any smarter lol. Might aswell wait for the translation then. Oh and if Jack is where I think he is at the end of the chapter, then I might aswell call it. Lacie is going to die next chapter at the party which Jack is attending. The mansion where the party is held is the same mansion where her grave is at right now. Ok now I'm just making stuff up lol.
 
10-18-11, 1:29 PM

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Fantastic chapter. I feel like my love for the series has been revived once again... in fact I think I might just read the whole thing next week.
Well, Lacie is kind of crazy. But awesome.
I hope the next ch is more Jack-memories because I will be furious if Jun makes us wait any longer to reveal the rest -___- This is what we've been waiting for since the beginning of jack's character! REVEAL EVERYTHING! Please? ('3')
(Actually...since it ends with the flashback I'm sure the next chapter will have more to add.......i hope)
 
10-18-11, 6:18 PM

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Orulyon said:
LOL, well, sometimes, even if you are with 100 people or have 100 girlfriends, it really doesnt matter, because all you want is to be near the person u really love *vomits a rainbow*

Yeah, I agree, although I think it's more of a runaway infatuation. Lacie was the first person to really talk to him, treat him like a human being, and not care about his origins. That meant the world to him so he latched onto her like flowers to sunshine, like a newly hatched chick to the first thing they see, like... well, you get the idea. It's really sweet, but also kinda sad too, because I didn't get the impression that she likes him nearly as much as he loves her. She seemed rather flighty and spontaneous, and it sounded like she ran away from home just to throw a tantrum. And then...

Lacie: "What? Oswald? *blush* .... *turns to Jack* aww, you're real cute but I gtg now! ciao!!"
Jack: "will I ever see you again?!?"
Lacie: "uh, ya, sure... go out and kill, steal, and prostitute yourself until you find me! ^_~"
(five minutes later, after everybody's gone)
Jack: "*wide-eyed*..............Okay."

Kind of a tease. XD I don't hold it against her, but just sayin', poor Jack! He took it like Knight being given a quest! He started out broken, felt a brief interlude of happiness with her, and then it got yanked away. And then he put himself through hell to try to find her and probably ended up even more broken!

I'm sorta suspecting that by the time Jack sleeps his way gets to the Baskervilles Lacie was already sacrificed. That's gotta suck hard.

And about the bloody knife thing... yeah, he probably killed or injured somebody, but it didn't look like he liked that at all. He immediately chose prostitution over that. Poor Jack. :(

Here's to hoping next chapter continues the flashback and shows how Jack seduced met Glen. :D

(Sorry for all the sexual references about Jack, hehe. I just think the prostitution thing is so adorable!! >^.^<)

BREAK WON! WOO!! And Gil is still freaking out, poor baby. ~_~; And yet I am awfully amused by how Rufus basically smirks about it and is like, "Is that Raven freaking out? I knew it was Glen's head, hehe." Gil's world-shattering trauma is just a reason for smug confirmation to Rufus.

Orulyon said:
Gil´s memories can be fake, but i believe Vince kept his real memories.

For now I don't think anybody's memories are fake.
Modified by Neiru2013, 10-24-11, 7:07 PM
 
10-19-11, 3:48 AM

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@Neiru: everything u said was sooo well!!!! i think precisely the same!*.* exactlyyyy. i agree in everything u said.

i got that sensation too, that Jack loved her more than she will ever love him. In fact, she might like him, but not "love" him, when i saw her blushing for Ozwald i got like =_= wth?!

and omg, i laughed so much with your interpretation of Lacie´s goodbye words, looool. so true. But that´s exactly how it felt.


and let me say although im very grateful to her for giving strength to Jack to live, i cannot be grateful to the way she did it. and then leaving [for YEARS], it was awful. Jack endured too much pain. so many pain that for her he killed his best friend and he´s been killing whoever he needs to kill and that he considers a hindrance. i think he doesnt love her anymore, he is only obsessed with her. i hope someone can "bring him back" u know.

Well i believe that Lacie might be alive when he met Glen, at least for the first meeting... because i find it strange if suddenly Jack appears on Baskervilles mansion and
"Hey, you! i want us to be best buddies because Lacie was important to us! lets create a pocket watch with her song, kay? oh and btw, let me make her a grave in my house"

Glen was a serious, "closed" person. He would not let a stranger to become his bf unless Lacie made them friends? or Jack just seduced him XP.

Other thing i noticed...Lotti did not know who was Lacie and she lived in the Baskerville mansion for some time right? how odd, i wonder how many years the two friends spent together after Lacie´s "death"...

and now that we know that is possible that Lacie had a crush on Ozwald, perhaps the theories that Alice/Alyss are her daughters will revive again, this time with a high possibility of Ozwald being the twin´s dad XD LOOOL
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10-19-11, 4:25 AM

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@Neiru2012
About Lacie being sacrificed to Abyss: But she gave him only one earring and he somehow got second one, because we saw him wearing two earrings in many places in manga. But it is really good idea that Lacie was not long after meeting Jack sacrificed to the Abyss. It suits theory that Lacie could be mother of Alyss and Alice. ( I don’t want to think that she was too young, she doesn’t age like other Baskervilles)

About earrings: Maybe they can change colors LOL, but I thought people who make colorings, changed their color (I saw one coloring with green earrings, too)
About memories, I agree. I don’t think they are faked or changed. Gil’s memories were not complete and he added the most possible and wanted solutions because he really wanted Jack to be his master like Oz. Off course English is not my native, so all is expressed awkwardly, hope you will understand
Modified by Tamacco, 10-19-11, 4:36 AM
 
10-19-11, 1:02 PM

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Yeah, it could go either way, I think. Either Lacie is already gone by the time Jack gets to the Baskervilles or she's still around.

If Lacie's dead: Jack might come in asking about Lacie, wearing her earring. Judging by Lacie not being allowed to go out without Glen's permission, she might not have been very well known, or even kept a secret. Glen would want to meet with Jack to see how Jack knows about Lacie. He could hear out his story and sympathize with Jack because he knows what a headache Lacie is, and maybe feel bad that Jack had to go through all that and feel somewhat responsible. He seems like a pretty reasonable guy (like Leo) when you don't push specific buttons that make him lose his temper.

And I'm sure Lacie meant a lot to Glen even though she was so much trouble, so him and Jack could bond over that. Glen could give Jack the second earring, they could make the watch, and... the grave? I'm still not sure whose property that was 100 years ago. Maybe it was Glen's or Oswald's property and Vessalius just claimed it after the tragedy. Though, since Jack took Alice to visit the grave 100 years ago, it must've been a place he had access to, so maybe it was Vessalius' back then... or Glen's.

If Lacie's alive: I'd really like to see the interaction between Jack and Lacie when they meet again. How she'd feel about what he did, what she'd tell him now. I suspect she wouldn't be officially available romantically. Maybe she'd be married off to Oswald. =/ In this case, yeah, she'd probably introduce Jack to Glen. Jack keeps holding a yellow rose in pictures, meaning jealousy, so I expect him to be jealous over Lacie at someone somehow. Maybe Lacie got bored of Oswald and would ask Jack to kill him. ~_~ Well this is all wild speculation. But, if she is alive when they meet, I wouldn't imagine that Jack would take the idea of Lacie being sacrificed sitting down, and he would do something to sabotage that. Yet he seemed to be okay in the flashbacks with Glen.


@Tomacco: where'd you see the green earrings? (I'm collecting earring colors.)
 
10-19-11, 2:26 PM

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OZwald. OZ. Okay. Did you people say that already? You probably did. Okay, I'm really tired.
 
10-19-11, 2:40 PM

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It could also be read as Oz World, hehe.

Oh! Oh! Another thing I wanna see sometime... You know how Oz found the Lacie music watch on Lacie's grave? How'd it get there? I hope there'll be a flashback of Jack visiting Lacie's grave - maybe right before the Sablier tragedy - to say good bye and explain to her what he's planning to do, and hang the watch there. T_T In any other series I'd be like "*grumble* scene wasted on [hetero] romance," but in PH I'm like "aww how cuuuuute!! ^^"
Modified by Neiru2013, 10-20-11, 2:06 AM
 
10-20-11, 3:07 AM

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Here they are. Jack’s colorings with green earrings, but I think there is more of them in net. But I'm not sure if links work. One is Lacie with red earrings.

beztytuu5c.jpg

here
here

here
here
Modified by Tamacco, 10-20-11, 3:25 AM
 
10-20-11, 4:42 AM

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oh. but those are fan colorings...not official pics. Still they are gorgeous, thanks for sharing:)
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