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Poll: Pandora Hearts Chapter 66 Discussion


#1
Oct 17, 2011 7:23 AM

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THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
----------------------------------------
Spoilers are out.
"stepyip35" said:
巴魯瑪公知道封印石裡是格連的頭顱。亞瑟-巴魯瑪的筆記是他的懺悔的記憶
Rufus Barma knew that it was Glen's head in the sealing stone. Rufus Barma recorded his regretful memories in his diary.
內容全部都是傑克和蕾西的相遇
This chapter is about Jack and Lacie's encounter
從正在乞討的傑克和蕾西的相遇開始
Starting when Jack met Lacie when he was still a beggar.
傑克是貝薩流士家小妾的孩子,母親也是個歇斯底里的人,生活十分不幸
Jack was the child of one of the concubines of the Vessalius household, his mother had a hysterical personality, he had an extremely unlucky life.
蕾西對傑克說沒有錢的話可以去偷、去賣身,傑克拒絕了。
Lacie told Jack that he could always steal or even sell himself if he didn't have any money, Jack refused.
蕾西說自己討厭常識什麼的。蕾西是兩隻眼睛都是紅色的罪禍之子。唱著天真的歌曲。面對為了喜歡的曲子而笑的 她,傑克也第一次露出了笑容。
Lacie states that she hates common sense (?) and whatnot. Lacie was also 'The cause of misfortune' with red eyes, singing an innocent song. Seeing Lacie, who laughed because of her love for that song, Jack smiled for the first time.
因為罪禍之子可以賣到很高的價錢,類似人販子的人襲擊了兩人。傑克負傷了,說著“居然敢弄傷我喜歡的人,膽 子倒是不小”的蕾西,用鎖鏈將人販子秒殺。鎖鏈的全貌沒有顯示出來,但是可以看到和奧茲一樣的鎖。傑克被在 血雨中快樂的唱著跳著的蕾西的身影迷住了。
Because 'The cause of misfortune' could be sold at a very high price, some people, who seemed to be traffickers, attacked them. Jack was injured and Lacie, who was saying "How dare you hurt the person I like", killed those traffickers with chains. The chains were not fully revealed, but you can see that those chains are the same as Oz's. Jack was captivated by Lacie, who was dancing and singing gleefully in a shower of blood.
這時紅斗篷的巴斯卡比魯登場。叱責蕾西在沒得到格連大人允許的情況下外出。其中一個巴斯卡比魯對蕾西傳達了 Oswald(オズワルド)說會向她道歉這個信息。蕾西高興的笑了
Right at that moment, the Baskervilles made their appearance. They reproached Lacie for going out without Glen's permission. One of the Baskervilles passed Lacie a message, saying that Oswald (?)(オズワルド)will be apologizing to her. Lacie smiled happily.
蕾西對傑克說雖然可惜,也只能和你在此告別了。但是聽到傑克說想再見到的話就一定能再會,自己絕不會忘記巴 斯卡比魯這個名字時,蕾西把戴著的一隻耳環給了傑克。(也就是傑克一直戴著的耳環)。
Lacie told Jack that "It's a pity, but I'll have to part with you here". But after hearing Jack say that "If we really want to see each other again, we will, I will never forget the name 'Baskerville' " , Lacie then gave Jack one of her earrings . (The earrings that Jack has been wearing all this time)
傑克向和巴斯卡比魯一同離開的蕾西伸出手。
Jack reached out to Lacie and the Baskervilles, who were leaving.
想著雖然自己是死是活都無所謂,但是到和蕾西重逢為止,想見她,想見她,想再見到一次她的心情十分強烈。( 這裡有傑克當男妓的暗示畫面)
Jack had always thought that it didn't matter whether he was dead or not, but ever since he met Lacie, he wanted to see her, Jack's wanted to see Lacie really badly.
(Here's the translation of the spoiler in brackets. Please be mentally prepared because my brain crumbled into pieces after reading this)
There are hints of Jack being a male prostitute
使用了各種手段,終於讓自己能在社交場合以“貝薩流士家的傑克大人”的名義介紹給女士們。
By using various methods, Jack was finally able to introduce himself to the ladies during social gatherings as 'Jack from the Vessalius household"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The translation is NOT mine, I have found it on mangafox.
It looks interesting, doesn't it? It seems that Jack became a male prostitute to meet Lacie again. Somehow, I'm not surprised.
Something makes me think that, when this manga ends, Glen, who ordered to kill people in Sabrie, will be the sanest person of them all.
Modified by Lain666, Oct 17, 2011 7:30 AM
“All the evidence shows that God was actually quite a gambler, and the universe is a great casino, where dice are thrown, and roulette wheels spin on every occasion.” - Stephen Hawking
 
#2
Oct 17, 2011 11:08 AM

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Ahh nice, the trinity idea is coming together now. ^_^ Lacies IS just like Alyss/Alice, AND she has the B-Rabbit power. Those Baskerville women, they all be crayzee! XD

And she told Jack to be a prostitute? Haha, that's awesome. I'd buy him!! :D
 
#3
Oct 17, 2011 12:02 PM

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Now that Jack turned out to be a gigolo, I wonder how many fans he will have?

Another thing I have been thinking about is why Laice's tomb is in a property of the Vessalius, not of the Baskervilles.
“All the evidence shows that God was actually quite a gambler, and the universe is a great casino, where dice are thrown, and roulette wheels spin on every occasion.” - Stephen Hawking
 
#4
Oct 17, 2011 12:36 PM

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I'm not quite sure where her tomb is. I kind of assume it's Vessalius property since that's where Oz's coming of age ceremony was, and it's not in Sablier where the Baskerville mansion was... but did the Vessalius always own it?

Oz didn't grow up there, as if the Vessalius actually *live* somewhere else: "It is a beautiful mansion, isn't it? Word has it that it was built over 200 years ago, but now it's only used for the Coming of Age ceremony. You can seldom come here, so think of it as a strange party of sorts and enjoy yourself!"

That mansion is also where the Clock Tower of Silence is, the clock that stopped ticking 100 years ago. It's linked to a prophecy: "When the one whom we await descends upon the promised land, the bell will toll to break the silence." Yura had a clock tower like that in his mansion (here + 2 pages), and when it reached midnight he said "lets reenact the tragedy." Seems important. The Clock Tower of Silence was stuck right before midnight, and when Oz touched it it moved to midnight position.

In that Pandora Hearts pilot, it's said that Black Rabbit controls time.

Anyway, point being, seems like the clock is tied to the Sablier tragedy somehow, but it's not located in Sablier. It's at the now-Vessalius mansion. And is that mansion even owned by Vessalius? Or is it some national landmark because of the prophecy so everybody goes there?

...where was I going with this? >.
 
#5
Oct 17, 2011 6:42 PM

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Neiru2012 said:
The Clock Tower of Silence was stuck right before midnight, and when Oz touched it it moved to midnight position.
In that Pandora Hearts pilot, it's said that Black Rabbit controls time.


Very nice point/connection. I haven't ever made much notice of that (don't even remember Black Rabbit controls time!).

I'm very happy about this chapter's recent developments. I actually was never a big fan of Jack before, but I definitely am now. The fact that Jack may really have sold himself as a prostitute adds some tragic element to his character that somehow makes him feel more realistic. This is the type of thing that many anime/manga shy away from in fear of causing controversy, losing fans, etc., but I appreciate that Pandora Hearts is taking step into this.

Since it's more or certain that both Alices are part of a whole, I had better start paying more attention to this manga, as it's sure to resolve soon, and I won't understand the ending well, I feel, if I hadn't a deeper understanding of the plot. Time to re-read a couple of chapters, oh well :/

(I have long-term memory issues)
[An incredibly creative signature]
 
#6
Oct 17, 2011 6:52 PM

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OMGGGGGGG. i knew, i knew * whispers of relief* i knew my Jack was not the source of evil. It was Lacie, just like i thought. not saying she is also totally evil, but she seems to be pretty sadistic...

Still...
why did she love Jack, if she just met him? perhaps she met him before, but he was too young to remember her... If Lacie is a contractor, she does not age, right? Lacie you pedophile.

iofjdhsfhjfh*nosebleeds*
Jack as a male prostitute T_T what a guy must do for love, oh damn you Lacie.

Seriously now...i really pity Jack. What a terrible childhood. Anyone in his situation would get mental scars. Now that i know what he´s been through, ill definitely keep supporting him even if he turns into evil mode.

Jack T_T
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#7
Oct 17, 2011 9:58 PM

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Oh yes, I'm sure Jack had a horrible time charming the skirts off noble ladies. XD

I kid. I know he had a terribly rough childhood, and I love him all the more for it. Obviously his career would have to start with much more unpleasant customers. I mean, if he started out as young as we saw him on the street, he'd have a harder time attracting female clientele. That age caters to the "creepy old man" demographic. ~_~

I just hope nobody's gonna accuse him of being a gold digger with Glen now. =/ Though it might explain why Glen kept him around 8D... Whatever way that relationship started, Jack and Glen became genuine best friends.

Speaking of Lacie hating "common sense," I was reminded of the Alice quote from the Disney cartoon: "If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?"

And about the earrings Lacie gave Jack. They gotta be some kind of magical mood ring earrings, lol. They change color from blue to red!! (scroll down for pictures) What's up with that??

Ohhh, and this explains the amount of sympathy Jack had for finding Vince and Gil like that. And why he told Vince to be proud of his eyes. SO CUTE!! *_*
 
#8
Oct 18, 2011 3:38 AM

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Aaah, I'm so glad we could finally learn something about Lacie and Jack. I'm definitely starting to like Jack even more.
My only problem with this chapter is that apparently, there is no Break, Vincent or Gil in it, but otherwise cool chapter. XD
I can't wait to see the raw/scanlation.

And lol, the earrings... They were purple in the anime. XD
 
#9
Oct 18, 2011 4:50 AM
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LQ scan of the chapter is out.

Nice haircut of Jack by outgoing, no... creepy, Lucie. She's like another Alice (Intention of Abyss?). What she said at the end makes me think that my thought is correct about Lucie = another Alice.

And Jack became evil just to meet her?
Modified by tsubasalover, Oct 18, 2011 5:09 AM
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Oct 18, 2011 4:56 AM

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Neiru2012 said:Oh yes, I'm sure Jack had a horrible time charming the skirts off noble ladies. XD
I kid. I know he had a terribly rough childhood, and I love him all the more for it. Obviously his career would have to start with much more unpleasant customers. I mean, if he started out as young as we saw him on the street, he'd have a harder time attracting female clientele. That age caters to the "creepy old man" demographic. ~_~
And about the earrings Lacie gave Jack. They gotta be some kind of magical mood ring earrings, lol. They change color from blue to red!!


LOL, well, sometimes, even if you are with 100 people or have 100 girlfriends, it really doesnt matter, because all you want is to be near the person u really love *vomits a rainbow*
Jack was that case, i mean, if even now, after being "dead" he still searches and does everything for Lacie, she is HIS LIFE. Basically he does not have a reason to live without her. Im not sure if the love he fel already went away and is now more like an obsession...
i believe Jack saved the siblings because he was reminded of how he was and that he lived the same hard life, but mostly, ofc, he didnt save them just for that, otherwise we would have saved others before and he didnt, and if he saved every child in the street, he would have an orphanage filled with kids, lol.
And then, finally we know, that it was for Vincent, for sure! Vincent having a red eye, made Jack remember Lacie, and so, he took him and took Gil probably only because Gil was Vince´s brother. ofc, later, his servant would be Vince and not Gil.
And there we reach the conclusion why Vince always loved Jack so much too. Gil´s memories can be fake, but i believe Vince kept his real memories.
the earrings...hum. good point. im curious about them. yes, they change color, how odd. Ive seen them in the manga being blue, red, purple, green.
and another curiosity is that, violet eye color is considered to be most close color to "red" in the eye color classification. (i google it) lol, Alice and Alyss have Violet eyes, Lacie has red eyes...and they almost have the same face, and definitely the same hair. So they definitely are very related.

EDIT: my thoughts after seeing the raws:

Lacie really resembles me the personality of Alyss.
Jack seems like a Oz clone!!!! the resemblance is just sooo... oh men.
Lacie really liked Jack, after all. oh Lacie, now i love u T_T
Lacie controlled the B-Rabbit!!!?
ok, Lacie singing and dancing in the rain of blood of the men she killed was kinda creepy, but at least she saved Jack...
And Lacie blushing when the baskervilles tell her something ( someone that translated mentioned a guy, probably that Oswald was waiting for her) [who is that guy? and Oswald? maybe it was OZwald who was waiting XP]

and oh f***! its true. Jack not only became a gigolo (for females and just like Neiru said...for old men too! T_T) as well as a killer. He killed for money too, probably went to steal and than stabbed the victim, because he appears with a knife all bloody).

oh my, excellent chapter, cant wait for the full translation.
Modified by Orulyon, Oct 18, 2011 5:24 AM
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Oct 18, 2011 8:34 AM

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Reposting this here:

My english isn't that great, so I hope you guys understand what I'm saying, but here's what I'm thinking.

Lacie = original B-rabbit and alyss
Oz = Jack
Alice = daughter of Glen and Lacie
Alyss = mother of Alice

Basically, Lacie got pregnant with Glen's child (I assume Glen has purple eyes). Soon after the pregnancy she was sacrificed and cast to the abyss. Alice was born in the human world as half chain. She still ages because a part of her is still human, alyss however doesn't age. That's why they look about the same age. Whenever Alice uses the power of B-rabbit, her eyes will turn red. That's because she inhereted the chain part from her mother, who has red eyes. This also explains why Jack is so fond of Alyss. When Alice got killed in the human... ok I'm stuck here. I might've forgotten, but did it ever say in the manga what happens to a chain when it dies? I thought they'd get send back to the abyss, which might explain why Alice was there at the start of the manga.

Then again, I should probably re-read the manga. I've forgotten a lot of facts, so this theorie will probably make no sense. Oh and I haven't seen chapter 66 yet, so I'll probably edit this after I've read it.

Edit: These raws aren't making me any smarter lol. Might aswell wait for the translation then. Oh and if Jack is where I think he is at the end of the chapter, then I might aswell call it. Lacie is going to die next chapter at the party which Jack is attending. The mansion where the party is held is the same mansion where her grave is at right now. Ok now I'm just making stuff up lol.
 
Oct 18, 2011 1:29 PM

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Fantastic chapter. I feel like my love for the series has been revived once again... in fact I think I might just read the whole thing next week.
Well, Lacie is kind of crazy. But awesome.
I hope the next ch is more Jack-memories because I will be furious if Jun makes us wait any longer to reveal the rest -___- This is what we've been waiting for since the beginning of jack's character! REVEAL EVERYTHING! Please? ('3')
(Actually...since it ends with the flashback I'm sure the next chapter will have more to add.......i hope)
 
Oct 18, 2011 6:18 PM

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Orulyon said:
LOL, well, sometimes, even if you are with 100 people or have 100 girlfriends, it really doesnt matter, because all you want is to be near the person u really love *vomits a rainbow*

Yeah, I agree, although I think it's more of a runaway infatuation. Lacie was the first person to really talk to him, treat him like a human being, and not care about his origins. That meant the world to him so he latched onto her like flowers to sunshine, like a newly hatched chick to the first thing they see, like... well, you get the idea. It's really sweet, but also kinda sad too, because I didn't get the impression that she likes him nearly as much as he loves her. She seemed rather flighty and spontaneous, and it sounded like she ran away from home just to throw a tantrum. And then...

Lacie: "What? Oswald? *blush* .... *turns to Jack* aww, you're real cute but I gtg now! ciao!!"
Jack: "will I ever see you again?!?"
Lacie: "uh, ya, sure... go out and kill, steal, and prostitute yourself until you find me! ^_~"
(five minutes later, after everybody's gone)
Jack: "*wide-eyed*..............Okay."

Kind of a tease. XD I don't hold it against her, but just sayin', poor Jack! He took it like Knight being given a quest! He started out broken, felt a brief interlude of happiness with her, and then it got yanked away. And then he put himself through hell to try to find her and probably ended up even more broken!

I'm sorta suspecting that by the time Jack sleeps his way gets to the Baskervilles Lacie was already sacrificed. That's gotta suck hard.

And about the bloody knife thing... yeah, he probably killed or injured somebody, but it didn't look like he liked that at all. He immediately chose prostitution over that. Poor Jack. :(

Here's to hoping next chapter continues the flashback and shows how Jack seduced met Glen. :D

(Sorry for all the sexual references about Jack, hehe. I just think the prostitution thing is so adorable!! >^.^<)

BREAK WON! WOO!! And Gil is still freaking out, poor baby. ~_~; And yet I am awfully amused by how Rufus basically smirks about it and is like, "Is that Raven freaking out? I knew it was Glen's head, hehe." Gil's world-shattering trauma is just a reason for smug confirmation to Rufus.

Orulyon said:
Gil´s memories can be fake, but i believe Vince kept his real memories.

For now I don't think anybody's memories are fake.
Modified by Neiru2013, Oct 24, 2011 7:07 PM
 
Oct 19, 2011 3:48 AM

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@Neiru: everything u said was sooo well!!!! i think precisely the same!*.* exactlyyyy. i agree in everything u said.

i got that sensation too, that Jack loved her more than she will ever love him. In fact, she might like him, but not "love" him, when i saw her blushing for Ozwald i got like =_= wth?!

and omg, i laughed so much with your interpretation of Lacie´s goodbye words, looool. so true. But that´s exactly how it felt.


and let me say although im very grateful to her for giving strength to Jack to live, i cannot be grateful to the way she did it. and then leaving [for YEARS], it was awful. Jack endured too much pain. so many pain that for her he killed his best friend and he´s been killing whoever he needs to kill and that he considers a hindrance. i think he doesnt love her anymore, he is only obsessed with her. i hope someone can "bring him back" u know.

Well i believe that Lacie might be alive when he met Glen, at least for the first meeting... because i find it strange if suddenly Jack appears on Baskervilles mansion and
"Hey, you! i want us to be best buddies because Lacie was important to us! lets create a pocket watch with her song, kay? oh and btw, let me make her a grave in my house"

Glen was a serious, "closed" person. He would not let a stranger to become his bf unless Lacie made them friends? or Jack just seduced him XP.

Other thing i noticed...Lotti did not know who was Lacie and she lived in the Baskerville mansion for some time right? how odd, i wonder how many years the two friends spent together after Lacie´s "death"...

and now that we know that is possible that Lacie had a crush on Ozwald, perhaps the theories that Alice/Alyss are her daughters will revive again, this time with a high possibility of Ozwald being the twin´s dad XD LOOOL
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Oct 19, 2011 4:25 AM

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@Neiru2012
About Lacie being sacrificed to Abyss: But she gave him only one earring and he somehow got second one, because we saw him wearing two earrings in many places in manga. But it is really good idea that Lacie was not long after meeting Jack sacrificed to the Abyss. It suits theory that Lacie could be mother of Alyss and Alice. ( I don’t want to think that she was too young, she doesn’t age like other Baskervilles)

About earrings: Maybe they can change colors LOL, but I thought people who make colorings, changed their color (I saw one coloring with green earrings, too)
About memories, I agree. I don’t think they are faked or changed. Gil’s memories were not complete and he added the most possible and wanted solutions because he really wanted Jack to be his master like Oz. Off course English is not my native, so all is expressed awkwardly, hope you will understand
Modified by Tamacco, Oct 19, 2011 4:36 AM
 
Oct 19, 2011 1:02 PM

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Yeah, it could go either way, I think. Either Lacie is already gone by the time Jack gets to the Baskervilles or she's still around.

If Lacie's dead: Jack might come in asking about Lacie, wearing her earring. Judging by Lacie not being allowed to go out without Glen's permission, she might not have been very well known, or even kept a secret. Glen would want to meet with Jack to see how Jack knows about Lacie. He could hear out his story and sympathize with Jack because he knows what a headache Lacie is, and maybe feel bad that Jack had to go through all that and feel somewhat responsible. He seems like a pretty reasonable guy (like Leo) when you don't push specific buttons that make him lose his temper.

And I'm sure Lacie meant a lot to Glen even though she was so much trouble, so him and Jack could bond over that. Glen could give Jack the second earring, they could make the watch, and... the grave? I'm still not sure whose property that was 100 years ago. Maybe it was Glen's or Oswald's property and Vessalius just claimed it after the tragedy. Though, since Jack took Alice to visit the grave 100 years ago, it must've been a place he had access to, so maybe it was Vessalius' back then... or Glen's.

If Lacie's alive: I'd really like to see the interaction between Jack and Lacie when they meet again. How she'd feel about what he did, what she'd tell him now. I suspect she wouldn't be officially available romantically. Maybe she'd be married off to Oswald. =/ In this case, yeah, she'd probably introduce Jack to Glen. Jack keeps holding a yellow rose in pictures, meaning jealousy, so I expect him to be jealous over Lacie at someone somehow. Maybe Lacie got bored of Oswald and would ask Jack to kill him. ~_~ Well this is all wild speculation. But, if she is alive when they meet, I wouldn't imagine that Jack would take the idea of Lacie being sacrificed sitting down, and he would do something to sabotage that. Yet he seemed to be okay in the flashbacks with Glen.


@Tomacco: where'd you see the green earrings? (I'm collecting earring colors.)
 
Oct 19, 2011 2:26 PM

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OZwald. OZ. Okay. Did you people say that already? You probably did. Okay, I'm really tired.
 
Oct 19, 2011 2:40 PM

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It could also be read as Oz World, hehe.

Oh! Oh! Another thing I wanna see sometime... You know how Oz found the Lacie music watch on Lacie's grave? How'd it get there? I hope there'll be a flashback of Jack visiting Lacie's grave - maybe right before the Sablier tragedy - to say good bye and explain to her what he's planning to do, and hang the watch there. T_T In any other series I'd be like "*grumble* scene wasted on [hetero] romance," but in PH I'm like "aww how cuuuuute!! ^^"
Modified by Neiru2013, Oct 20, 2011 2:06 AM
 
Oct 20, 2011 3:07 AM

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Here they are. Jack’s colorings with green earrings, but I think there is more of them in net. But I'm not sure if links work. One is Lacie with red earrings.

beztytuu5c.jpg

here
here

here
here
Modified by Tamacco, Oct 20, 2011 3:25 AM
 
Oct 20, 2011 4:42 AM

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oh. but those are fan colorings...not official pics. Still they are gorgeous, thanks for sharing:)
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Oct 20, 2011 4:59 AM

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Sorry, I like watching colorings they are really nice but I still know not much about them. I just thought people weren’t sure, what color are earrings, because we can see them having different colors in avatars, icons and fan colorings.
 
Oct 22, 2011 11:48 AM

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Honestly, this chapter kind of disappointed me.

Oh by the way, I don't really like Lacie, though that's not relevant.
 
Oct 22, 2011 3:10 PM

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Wasn't dramatic enough, or...?

Well, I'm kinda high on Jack right now, so I'm loving every moment of it. It's so nice to finally get his backstory. While I would've never outright guessed about the prostitution, I am also not at all surprised, and it's definitely amplified my liking of him. I'm also super excited for the entire flashback arc that's starting. Been waiting to know what happened 100 years ago for years now!! Really looking forward to seeing Jack and Glen's relationship develop and learning the full story about everybody's motives. It'll be amazing to finally see how the Sablier tragedy played out, especially the Jack versus Glen fight. *_*
 
Oct 22, 2011 3:19 PM
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Where did toy find it to read, I cannot find it anywhere yet

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Oct 22, 2011 3:22 PM

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There's some low quality raw pictures out on LiveJournal and a text translation to follow along. The scanlation groups haven't released it yet. They don't even have the high quality raws yet since the scanner was on vacation.
 
Oct 22, 2011 3:23 PM
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Ah I see I see, thanks for the information Neiru

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Oct 23, 2011 4:20 AM

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Neiru2012 said:
Wasn't dramatic enough, or...?

No, that's not it. I think we've had enough drama so far anyway. It's just that the whole 'Jack was the son of a concubine' explanation seems a bit cheap to me. Though I know that's just me because it reminds me of something but I probably shouldn't get into explaining cause I doubt that anyone cares.

I also sort of hoped that Lacie won't be psychotic but oh well.. No surprise there.
 
Oct 24, 2011 10:00 AM

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GracefulDownfall said:
Neiru2012 said:
Wasn't dramatic enough, or...?

No, that's not it. I think we've had enough drama so far anyway. It's just that the whole 'Jack was the son of a concubine' explanation seems a bit cheap to me. Though I know that's just me because it reminds me of something but I probably shouldn't get into explaining cause I doubt that anyone cares.

I also sort of hoped that Lacie won't be psychotic but oh well.. No surprise there.

^ This.

No surprises at all.

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Oct 24, 2011 10:02 AM

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Goddamn Lacie, way to corrupt Jack like that. Then again Jack was already broken to begin with. Im also surprised Jack's situation was somewhat similar to Oz's regarding their fathers.
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Oct 24, 2011 10:19 AM

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Why did i mentaly pictured Jack and that maid refusing him when i saw him with that old lady being a prostitute o.o
i hope we will find out what actually happened to Lacie in the next chapter
There is still much love for Jacks character but what worries me is how Oz will see him now.As we know Oz had Dad isuees too...and no mother....but still he had Uncle Oscard who in contrast to Lacie did help Oz in growing up the right way ^^
 
Oct 24, 2011 11:07 AM
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Lacie is one crazy bitch lol
I have mixed feelings about Jack. What he did wasn't good, so many died just cause of one person and his obsession with her but then again he was an abandoned person without will till he met her so mehh.
 
Oct 24, 2011 11:15 AM

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Look guys Blood Red Rain~ AHAHAHAHAH~

O_O...Lacie seems like a nice girl.
 
Oct 24, 2011 11:31 AM

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Lain666 said:
Now that Jack turned out to be a gigolo, I wonder how many fans he will have?
Another thing I have been thinking about is why Laice's tomb is in a property of the Vessalius, not of the Baskervilles.


JACK'S A WHORE. I LOVE HIM MORE NOW!***
Sorry about the caps, I'm making a very important point.

hum, in fact...and I never had thought about that! Lacie was always strongly connected to Jack. The song...The TOMB! I wonder...


I love Lacie. I really don't care what sins/crimes she may have committed...Her arguments about the common sense were just great. Even if you come to the same conclusion, you should ask 'Why'. Plus she likes blood red rain. Totally creepy.
She's as creepy as Alyss.

And now, there's something with this manga and cutting hair; there's something with this manga and scissors (srsly just by looking at the scissors, I went 'OMG scissors!!') there's something about this manga and wounded ears!

***lol not because he was a whore. His character is much more interesting now, before he was just the hero everyone worshiped, and appeared to say some nice words or pwn some bad guys through Oz's body... I'm so curious about all this...Jack, Jack, what have you done, what did you want, what do you aim for?
If Lacie was all that mattered to him...what happened when she died? Jack's been smiling since the manga started! wtf has happened?!
Modified by Rianri, Oct 24, 2011 12:28 PM



 
Oct 24, 2011 1:07 PM

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Maffy said:
I have mixed feelings about Jack. What he did wasn't good, so many died just cause of one person and his obsession with her

What Jack did? You mean the part where Glen ordered the massacre of the whole city? We don't know what Jack did yet... besides kill Glen.
 
Oct 24, 2011 1:54 PM

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3 things.
I love Jack, I never give him much attention but now he's really interesting guy and I love people like lost sheeps

I don't like Lacie. Just hate her, She's twisted but that's not what maked me not like her, i don't know wat is exactly is.

Why this manga don't come out ofteen??? T^T

And now I really need to read everything frm the start. I forgotten so many things that I can't enjoy chapters properly.
Sorry for my English ^^' If you notice any mistakes, please tell me about it ^^ Thanks for corrections ^^
 
Oct 24, 2011 2:11 PM

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Just finished the chapter~ TOO SHORT!!!
OK... so here goes my thoughts on discussion and chapter-
I DO think Lacie was dead by the time Jack met Alice. I personally believe that Jack befriended Glen in attempt to get closer to Lacie. Maybe Glen finally had someone who wasn't afraid or subserviant to him, and that is why he befriended Jack, in almost the same way Elliot befriended Leo. Having now befriended Glen, Jack would be free to roam around and look for Lacie, but instead finds Alice, who has no recognition of Jack. (How do you think that made HIM feel? Did he already know?)
And Lacie was sooooo like Alyss... friendly one moment, killer the next. But it does seem like Lacie had a little better control of herself then Alyss...
Personally, I don't think it is right to assume there is one major evil player in this. Maybe it is just about screwed up people with their screwed up intentions, like Vincent wanting to die to make Gil happy, despite Gil not wanting this, and Leo mourning for Elliot by trying to destroy himself through Oz, and Jack s obsessed with Lacie that nothing will stop him from reaching her...
And that earring thing kinda creeps me out... It was one of the things I ALWAYS notice on Jack, how his earring was sitting there, how no other guy had an earring, but I never considered that Lacie gave it to him! ((gah...))

I'll try to find proof when I have more time...
 
Oct 24, 2011 2:18 PM

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Vincent, Oscar, Glen, Reim, Gilbert, Fang, and prolly other guys, all wear earrings... but Jack's are magical color-changing earrings! ^^;
 
Oct 24, 2011 3:46 PM

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Neiru2012 said:

Lacie: "What? Oswald? *blush* .... *turns to Jack* aww, you're real cute but I gtg now! ciao!!"
Jack: "will I ever see you again?!?"
Lacie: "uh, ya, sure... go out and kill, steal, and prostitute yourself until you find me! ^_~"


That's exactly what I thought!! Poor kid, he definitely loved her cause she was the first person to actually care about him and not what his background was but the way she left him just made me mad.

Hope we get to see more of his past next chapter.

 
Oct 24, 2011 6:22 PM

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I MUST READ THIS CHAPTER 10 TIMES MORE!
IT'S TOO AWESOME.

    I bet Jack has made a promise like: "I won't cut my hair until i find her again."
    Which leads me to think that he didn't get to meet her, she probably had already been made as a sacrifice to the abyss. I wonder how Jack lived all this time beside Glen knowing what he did. When Jack said he didn't want to be called a hero because he killed his best friend, i don't think he was lying.
  • Maybe when he met Glen, he found out that he was just like him back then, when he was almost literally lost in the world, until Lacie found him. I guess Jack wanted to "find" Glen the same way Lacie did to him, giving him some hope and a reason to live. For Jack, Lacie was the reason. For Glen, that would be the Abyss - he place he said once was revolved in gold. But if he knows the abyss was like this, Glen must have been there, right?
    He must have met someone there, like Oz met Alice. That wouldn't be Lacie, or else it would still be a beautiful place while they were there. And Glen wouldn't sacrifice the person he met there.
  • Or maybe Lacie was just composed about being made a sacrifice, and asked Jack to not hate Glen.

    I'm actually in love with Lacie right now. She really is like Alice/Alyss. The way she changed her expression when she cut Jack's ear and licked, so awesome.
    And I still love Jack. I knew he had secrets, but i've never thought he was a bad guy. He probably had to manipulate people to get to the Vessalius's house without being called a bastard, but who cares.

    Btw, i got my first Pandora Hearts volume yesterday, didn't buy before because where i live doesn't sell it, so i had to import it. I'm so damn happy. ^o^

    Oh, and couldn't help but remember this when i read Lacie had red eyes:
Modified by Liinah, Oct 25, 2011 6:19 AM
 
Oct 24, 2011 6:25 PM

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Neiru2012 said:
In any other series I'd be like "*grumble* scene wasted on [hetero] romance," but in PH I'm like "aww how cuuuuute!! ^^"


This. ♥ Hahahahahahaha.
I'm not sure what to think about Oswald. I don't think it's Oz. Unless (seriously) EVERYONE now is someone from 100 years ago. -__- But I don't think it would make sense, because Zai took Oz as a baby... somewhere... So how could he have been living 100 years ago, old enough to interact with Lacie?
I don't even know with PH anymore. I love this manga so much because you can actually theorize and think deeply about it, but it really gives me a headache -_-
I hope the flashback contains everything - including what really happened with the Tragedy. But I doubt that'll happen.
It's amazing to think about how much we STILL don't know. ._.
Lacie reminds me a lot of both Alyss and Alice. I'm beginning to side with the theory of Lacie being split into two parts - Alyss and Alice, though I'm not sure how that was done yet. Through being sacrificed to the Abyss, maybe.
I WISH THIS WASN'T A MONTHLY RELEASE. I WANT IT TO BE WEEKLY ._. there's never enough PH for me.
Modified by marmalah, Oct 24, 2011 6:30 PM
Can we break free from chains of never-ending agony?
 
Oct 24, 2011 6:50 PM

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I always thought Jacks earings where green... but whatever ~(-w-)~

My favorite part of this chapter was when Gil screamed, the concerned look on Vince's face, and Break and Rufus.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the rest of the chapter, but that part... I love them ಥ_ಥ

OH MY GAWWWWWWWWWWWWWD, I CAN'T TAKE THE ONCE A MONTH RELEASES! I NEED TO KNOW EVERYTHING NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW TT-TT
but then ph would be over and I think that would be worse than death
 
Oct 24, 2011 7:12 PM

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Awww Jack. D: I still support him as ever though.

Lacie is so adorable.
 
Oct 24, 2011 10:26 PM

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And more is unearthed regarding Jack and Lacie... Certainly good to get some backstory here. Now I'm curious how Glen fits into the picture exactly, and who precisely Lacie is. Obviously there is a connection between Lacie and Alice & Alyss... And Lacie has the power to create chains much like B-Rabbit (and most chains in general?). And she's associated with the Baskervilles (and presumably Glen)--but is she supposed to be locked up, much like Alice was? (Alice who would sometimes switch places with Alyss?) I'm going to have to seek out all those little flashbacks now in past chapters...

Regarding the one/two pages this chapter not in flashback mode: I'm a bit surprised Break managed to pin Barma so quickly. Of course, Barma may be hoping to get a few words to Break, before bringing out his chain and escaping with the Baskervilles. I still have the feeling Barma's not truly on the Baskerville's side, but the fact it was Glen who sacrificed himself (or was sacrificed?) for the sealing stones certainly complicates things.
 
Oct 25, 2011 8:27 PM

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Some food for thought: Lacie snatched a pair of fancy scissors and gave Jack a haircut with them. Any chance Jack has kept these scissors?
As we know, it was a fancy pair of scissors that were (presumably) used to kill Alice. >_> I know the chapter was making it look like it was Vincent's doing (and it seems he would have been glad to do so), but this *is* Pandora Hearts...

And on another note: Jack's mother lost her mind, and Jack lost "everything." So I'm guessing Jack's mother did something like kill herself and burn the house down? It seems his mother's heirloom was enough to get Jack back into the Vessalius house, but I wonder if he met up with his father again? I'll be curious to see if this is addressed next chapter.
 
Oct 26, 2011 5:16 AM

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I LOVE Jack even more now. He always my fav, and now that he got some naughty past, i adore it. I dont get the point of Jack haters. Jack did what he did, to survive, and so that way, to be able to see Lacie someday, which he deeply loved. It must have been so hard to steal and sell his body T_T
yet he carried on, always smiling with pain and hoping to see Lacie again. He might not be the Hero of the tragedy of Sablier, but he is definitely MY hero XD


Liinah said:
When Jack said he didn't want to be called a hero because he killed his best friend, i don't think he was lying.
Btw, i got my first Pandora Hearts volume yesterday, didn't buy before because where i live doesn't sell it, so i had to import it. I'm so damn happy. ^o^

Oh, and couldn't help but remember this when i read Lacie had red eyes:


So true. I dont believe everything Jack said about glen is a lie. Even if turns out that Jack was evil, i believe he really treasured Glen as a best friend.

what a coincidence!i got my 7th vol yesterday and i jumped of joy;3 and its Jack on the cover, kyaaaaaaa

oh that pic really resembles Lacie and Jack. Because im sure that Jack without his hair unbraided must have precisely that hair!!!*.*
Being a Fujoshi is an ode to male beauty.
 
Oct 26, 2011 6:16 AM
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Neiru2012 said:
Maffy said:
I have mixed feelings about Jack. What he did wasn't good, so many died just cause of one person and his obsession with her

What Jack did? You mean the part where Glen ordered the massacre of the whole city? We don't know what Jack did yet... besides kill Glen.


Well tbh I don't think Glen did something bad. I had all my faith on Jack and guess what, he didn't seem like he actually deserved it. Whatever he did, it seems he was the cause of the massacre, not Glen. And besides killing Glen, he didn't seem so eager to help Gil when he himself slashed him and almost killed him lol
 
Oct 26, 2011 7:26 AM

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Jack cause of the massacre?? D: That's completely unfounded at this point, especially considering it's blatantly shown that Glen ordered the massacre and that Jack was very unhappy about the massacre. But I'm sure... Glen... had a perfectly reasonable explanation for wanting to kill the entire city? O.o;; I'm sure he had SOME "ends justify the means"-style explanation for it, but to say "I don't think Glen did something bad" is willful ignorance. Nobody's innocent here and, as far as we know right now, Glen still has the most blood on his hands.

Also, Jack did not "almost kill" Gil. He very explicitly and deliberately gave him a non-lethal slash - much lighter than the one Oz gave Gil during the coming of age ceremony, btw, since Jack's slash didn't even leave a scratch - and Jack still stayed at Gil's side for a bit after that before going to find Glen again (because, y'know, Glen was massacring the whole city and most likely about to do something bad to Alice). What else could Jack possibly do right then? He was probably on a deadline (judging by Yura's reenactment of the massacre at here + 2 pages) to stop something by midnight, and considering that the Clock Tower of Silence was frozen right before midnight, he barely made it.

*~*~*~*~*

Okay, Theory Time!
I'm... preeetty convinced that Jack was partially possessed by somebody - Lacie or Alice (or Lacie possessing Alice who possessed Jack XD) - during the tragedy:

First, we have the picture of Alice with unconscious Jack who has his sword arm on a string, strongly implying manipulation.

Second, we have the fact that Jack was crying and terribly unhappy throughout the entire tragedy. He wasn't acting like himself (based on Gil's surprise at being slashed, Vince saying that everyone was acting weird because of Alice, how what Jack was saying out loud didn't always match with the agonized emotions he was showing). I mean really, there's a scene of a very miserable-looking Jack, apparently arguing with somebody in his head, saying "Stop it. I don't want to kill people!!"

Third, there is the scene where Jack first confronts Glen. Two odd things happen. First, Glen warns Gil not to come near them, because Jack isn't acting normal (as reinforced by Gil's surprise). Then, Glen attacks Jack. Now, Yen Press translated that last speech bubble of Glen's as "Jack... I must... I have no choice but to take your life--!!" but the actual Japanese volume says "Jack... I... [action particle towards] you--!!"

I dunno how Yen Press got all that out of the vagueness of the phrase (even though, based on the context of Glen charging Jack with drawn sword, we're expected to understand that the "action particle towards" is one of violence), but it still makes me wonder why Glen would have "no choice" but to kill Jack. I don't think Jack non-lethally slashing Gil would provoke that, and Glen was already on a killing spree, which is why Jack was confronting him with desperate questions in the first place. Maybe Glen thought Jack was contaminated and so Glen had "no choice." Maybe the whole city was.

Fourth, we got Glen standing around dead bodies muttering "Lacie." It's too soon to tell if Glen's words are of lament, longing, or blame, but it's clear that something related to Lacie was happening.


Also, it seems that Glen might've done something way in the past that triggered a chain reaction leading to all this, and it weighs heavily on Glen's conscience and karma. Just... the way he talks to Leo during this scene: "Remember that you are the cause of all this. Remember, the fact that you brought him back to life does not mean you saved him. Don't forget that you did this!" And later Leo has internalized this too: "Everything that's happened is because of me!! Well, me and the Will of the Abyss."

While it's understandable why Leo feels this way, Glen's words are interesting. They imply that Glen might've done something similar. This could actually be the reason he wants the Will destroyed. Something he tried to do backfired. Maybe this could also explain why he's hoarding Alice clones. No basis for this yet, but I think it'll be revealed that the Baskervilles are conducting secret experiments to draw the Will into a human-ish body in order to destroy/claim it.
Modified by Neiru2013, Oct 26, 2011 5:59 PM
 
Oct 26, 2011 7:48 AM

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Neiru2012 said:
I'm... preeetty convinced that Jack was partially possessed by somebody - Lacie or Alice (or Lacie possessing Alice who possessed Jack XD) - during the tragedy

Now that you said that, it's kinda possible. This page made me a little curious, more specifically the part where Jack says "Her eyes... are pulling me in", it feels like she would be able to control someone and make them do something for her if she really wanted to.

By the way, i don't know if anyone noticed something when Lacie started killing those guys in this chapter, take a look here. And we even started a theory that Lacie may be Alyss. I'm belphegar there


It's kind ironic how Lacie said all these things to Jack, about not accepting everything he's being told, but in the end he ended up doing all she said "If you are hungry, eat. If you have no money, steal. You've got good looks, Jack. You could sell your body if you wanted to." Everything just to find her, i kinda loved that. It was... crazy, but awesome somehow.

Those pages... Who is the harmony of the abyss?

Now that i stopped to think about it, there's nothing buried in that grave if it's really Lacie's, right? If she was really sacrificed, i don't think her body would stay in the human world.
Modified by Liinah, Oct 26, 2011 8:01 AM
 
Oct 26, 2011 8:05 AM

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Yeah, I noticed the B-Rabbit shadow, but I don't know what to think of the connection between Lacie and Alice yet. They act very similar, but I think there's other explanations for that. Unfounded speculation incoming: I think they were both possessed by the Will as a result of experiments conducted by Glen to harness its power and find a way to destroy it. I think the Black Rabbit is separate from both Lacie and Alice, but I do also entertain the possibility that Lacie was the first one linked to Black Rabbit. The Alices, however, were born from a human womb into the Abyss.
 
Oct 26, 2011 8:05 AM

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Second, we have the fact that Jack was crying and terribly unhappy throughout the entire tragedy. He wasn't acting like himself (based on Gil's surprise at being slashed, Vince saying that everyone was acting weird because of Alice, how what Jack was saying out loud didn't always match with the agonized emotions he was showing). I mean really, there's a scene of a very miserable-looking Jack, apparently arguing with somebody in his head, saying "Stop it. I don't want to kill people!!"

Interesting, it explains this (The picture in which dead bodies are shown. The one beside the picture of stabbed Yura)

It seems that Jack did kill people, but, as you say, he might have been manipulated.

I wonder if he killed those people because of B-rabbit's power?
Modified by Lain666, Oct 26, 2011 8:19 AM
“All the evidence shows that God was actually quite a gambler, and the universe is a great casino, where dice are thrown, and roulette wheels spin on every occasion.” - Stephen Hawking
 
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