The Real Ending to Code Geass

Dec 1, 2012 8:11 AM

Offline

Aug 2012

156

Don't blame them Bastet777, they just hate made same story if Lelouch live but he too great to be erased that which made the ending vague

Dec 12, 2012 3:17 PM

#42

Leaulux

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Dec 2012

251

I watched Code Geass years ago but still regard it as my favorite anime. The question about him being dead or not still comes to my mind every once in a while.

The hints/clues about Lelouch gaining immortality are there, but either way I believe that he is "metaphorically" dead in the sense that Lelouch Lamperouge the character died but physically, he is alive, roaming the world as an exile.

Perhaps with Orange-kun and the other girl on that farm. I think most of all I am glad that it is an open ending rather than what Death Note was lol.

Dec 13, 2012 9:23 AM

#43

Jovoo

Offline

Dec 2012

1618

I much prefer the second ending that they did, that hint that he was alive is much better than him actually being alive, it let's the watcher decide, and that's always good.

The forums are dark, and full of ego.

Dec 29, 2012 7:06 PM

#44

Nirvash225

Offline

Dec 2012

1

"Lelouch" is alive.

Remember the cave scene from season 1, Lelouch called C.C.by her previous name .The second season is titled R2(R.R) .Lulu's immortality is activated when Charles strangles him . The statement by the creators is that Lelouch is dead.

Lelouch is dead but he has been reborn immortal with the alias R.R?(R2)

This is my take on what happened, I just finished watching the entire series tonight. A very good piece of anime but the first season is hands down better overall then R2.

Dec 29, 2012 11:38 PM

#45

Azkar

Offline

Nov 2012

35

I personally preferred season 2 as compared to season 1, but that's just me.

This is what I think happened, and other might have stated it also:

Lelouch did die when he was killed by the new "Zero". However, Lelouch is now fulfilling his contract with C.C (wish the producers said he real name, along with what the girl said before the group of people charged out to free the prisoners). Lelouch is alive, but he is dead in the sense that he is no longer Lelouch, he no longer has any family, and he is in a sense completely isolated. That is what C.C. was saying at the end during her speech, however since Lelouch and C.C. are together its "not entirely correct, is it Lelouch".

While I might be looking in a little to much for this, this also goes with what Nunnally was saying in that to be happy she only wanted to be with him. She and Kallen realized what was happening at the end (though Nunnally only realized that he was still alive). This also includes the fact that she touched his hand, and thus would have felt the life coming back to him (don't know how long it takes to get "revived), along with all his memories.

Jan 3, 2013 4:22 PM

#46

Pknoctis

Offline

Dec 2010

2198

Nirvash225 said:
"Lelouch" is alive.

Remember the cave scene from season 1, Lelouch called C.C.by her previous name .The second season is titled R2(R.R) .Lulu's immortality is activated when Charles strangles him . The statement by the creators is that Lelouch is dead.

Lelouch is dead but he has been reborn immortal with the alias R.R?(R2)

This is my take on what happened, I just finished watching the entire series tonight. A very good piece of anime but the first season is hands down better overall then R2.

This makes good sense, and works with creators saying Lelouch is dead.

Lol '13 and still loving Code Geass.

Jan 19, 2013 1:48 AM

#47

c22

Offline

Jan 2013

1

To strengthen the point Luloush is immortal now:

The creators say that Luloush is dead. Hence Luloush the 99th emperor of britannia is literally "dead". Meaning that his mortal body is "dead" and he becomes the immortal. C.C. and V.V. had a "name" before they were renamed. HENCE when they become immortal they have a new name. SO Luloush is LITERALLY not Luloush but probably L.L. or something LOL. Also, immortals cannot die unless killed by a person who has mastered the Geass. And Luloush used the world of C. to devour his parents. Hence they are dead and the Code has passed onto Luloush upon death.

When Suzaku says " I will accept this Geass" it was because Luloush made a metaphor that the real Geass was like people's wishes. So being Suzaku... he always gets tricked and decieved by Luloush. So when he accepts the Geass he means he accepts holding the burden of people's wishes AND the Geass casted on him to keep "living" so that he can atone for his sins. Which is friggin smart coming from Luloush because he has always wanted Suzaku to take care of Nunnaly for him and no one else can do that for him.

As for Orange and Anya, Orange did NOT stop Suzaku from killing Luloush and he had NO sign of sadness and he can dispel Geass. There must be something up with that because he is a very loyal character and is unsatisfied when he cannot serve his highness. Orange did not take Anya's life and from hearing Anya's explanation of not remembering anything would make sense that Orange would bring Anya to live with C.C. and Luloush. As for C.C., she wants to die and she never smiles unless she's with someone she loves, which is Luloush. C.C. cried at the Chapel because she understands that living forever is the biggest pain and Luloush would have to take that road. Also, Luloush promised to fulfill C.C.'s wish which is to be loved. C.C. smiles in the end. Why would one smile when their wish is not fulfilled? Also, C.C. is not a person to bring momento's with her. Only Luloush gives a rat's ass about Nunnally except Suzaku. C.C.'s last statement:" The Power of the Kings, known as Geass, brings Solitude"( which is defined as being ALONE) "Not quite accurate is it?Right, Luloush?"
MEANING that Luloush is not ALONE. BUT if he died, then he would be ALONE.
Also, both of them have Geass. So if both of them have Geass and are together then they are not alone no more.

As for Luloush's nature, he lies, manipulates, decieves, and he uses that to his advantage. Meaning he never stopped lying EVEN given the opportunity to justify. A man who understands the game beats the game. He is fully aware and when he told Nunally that they would walk their own paths because she had her own way of thinking. Luloush would not kill himself without being immortal, ESPECIALLY if nunnally is alive. Reason is because Luloush's purpose of living was for Nunnally to live her life and as well as fulfill C.C.'s wish. When Luloush's mortal body dies, he was not in fear, WHICH he is always a pussy when his life is on the line and always indicates that he thinks he is gonna die. No sign of fear and instead he smiled. He did not even wish for Nunnally to live on or etc. He didn't even have any final words to say to Nunnally, which is SUPER unusual. He doesn't even say I love you LOL. I... destroy worlds... and create worlds. da fuq? LOL

ALSO, Nunnally's EXISTENCE could also mean that Luloush is still alive because she said she could not live on without him. And Luloush cannot lie to Nunnally. So he probably told her AFTER because she would have acted differently if not lied properly. Especially from such a cautious character.

Suzaku is always lied to by Luloush and tricked into doing what he intends him to do. So that's Suzaku's nature. Meaning anything that Luloush tells Suzaku is most likely a lie and to guilt trip him to doing what he wants. Also, Suzaku has no clue about the immortal nonsense LOL. Innocently caught in the act of a genius' work of crime.

Feb 25, 2013 11:28 PM

#48

ZomBreeXwX

Offline

Feb 2013

1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo

Enough Said!!!!

To viewers he can be dead or alive thats what they wanted, for you to choose but originally they had him alive!

Apr 16, 2013 8:38 PM

#49

Hamburgler

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Apr 2013

2

Plus if you look closely at the ending you can see that the cart driver has the same color hair as Lelouch

Apr 24, 2013 4:28 PM

#50

ecimir

Offline

Jan 2012

122

Yes there are dozens of hints he lives, not definitely clear ending is made only for those viewers who thinks Lelouch deserves to die. Your theory is good, not explained enough, but what you hugely lack is themeaningl of character C2. The only reason why she choose not to die is because her true wish is to be loved, and only way to obtain that wish , for Lelouch, is to obtain immortality. The last scene is showing paper crane after all.

What is most fascinating is the fact that show finished 5 years ago and people are still discussing it. The true proof of Code Geass greatness.

Apr 29, 2013 4:37 PM

#51

Hamburgler

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Apr 2013

2

I was not referring to the youtube video i was talking about the actual ending

May 16, 2013 11:22 PM

#52

jabsalot718

Offline

May 2013

10

for those who dont think he is alive here is concrete proof the directors cut shows lelouch [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo]

May 19, 2013 11:02 AM

#53

guyuz

Offline

Apr 2013

171

At first, when I saw the end I thought it was the best ending I've yet seen (Then again, I'm a pretty new anime watcher). After learning about this whole possibility he's alive... That's just awesome.

To me, both endings make sense. There's no hard proof for anything, and the fact that there so many hints that he's alive... Well damn, intentional or not, that just made the ending so much more fun to discuss! I personally think he's alive. It's nice for me to think that as harsh as that show was, Lelouch got out of this story alive.

PS: Considering the amount of fan mail I can assume those who made CG got (Again, not an expert on companies), it's fair that if they didn't want to bother with making an OVA or something to give full proof, and wanted people to just shut up, they'll say he's dead. I'd believe the fact that they lied about Lelouch dying to get people to stop bothering the company more than I'd believe that "His identity is dead, but he's truly alive as R.R or R2 (OMG THE SHOW IS NAMED R2)". It just seems like people are trying to hard, in my taste.

May 19, 2013 1:56 PM

#54

Dragoon4002

Offline

Feb 2009

96

I think the beauty of Code Geass is the fact that the viewer can decide how it ends. We have seen plenty of arguments for both sides, so just believe what you like and enjoy it for what it is :)

May 19, 2013 6:09 PM

#55

AriaFlame

Offline

Nov 2011

64

He's dead. About that ending scene you said were for the "stupid" people, you have to be beyond ignorant to think C.C. was speaking to Lelouch just because she said his name.

After Lelouch died, there was a cut of the result of his actions with Kallen narrating, and she was "addressing" Lelouch too- are you going to say that she was insane or that she was speaking to him? Hell no. It's a form of escapism, or, if you prefer, a wish that the person they are addressing could somehow hear them.

Here's a Japanese to english transcript that I got online, with Lelouch explaining the Zero Requiem along with Suzaku:

"The punishment for what you've done shall be this, then. You will live on, always wearing that mask serving as a knight for justice and truth. You will no longer live your life as Suzaku Kururugi. You shall sacrifice the ordinary pleasures of your life for the benefit of the world. For eternity..."

>FOR ETERNITY

If you don't understand what this means, you are retarded.

(inb4 but noo suzaku didn't have the highest level of geass, LELOUCH VI BRITANNIA gave him the code, don't question the man.)

And about Nunnally seeing his memories, you do realize that they were pitching her as transhuman, right? She could tell when ordinary people were lying, and it was pretty damn obvious that she purposefully reached for Lelouch's hand as he fell next to her. She wasn't hysterical then, and it wasn't shock, because it's clear that Nunnally's natural power is one to see through the true intentions of people. Obviously Lelouch would be thinking of why he was dying at the time, and ta-da, a convienent explanation of the Zero Requiem.

The reason I say it wasn't shock is because she truly believed he was a monster, until that moment where she saw through his true intentions and her emotions, her wish to live happily with him came pouring out.

And about Jeremiah - WHY WOULDN'T HE BE SMILING?! His master's greatest wish is about to fulfilled! Honestly, you people make me sad.

And this is really bothering me: "Lelouch Vi Britannia is the first one to ever get the "Code Geass" "

No. NO HE WASN'T. Wtf? Every immortal, C.C., V.V., the lady that forced C.C. to become immortal, Charles, and all that preceded them had attained what you call "Code Geass". The hell are you talking about? They all possessed the Geass until the Code activated when they died.

Hamburgler said:
Plus if you look closely at the ending you can see that the cart driver has the same color hair as Lelouch

You mean those 3 pixels of dark coloured whatever under the hood? I'm not even going to bother addressing this one. You aren't this stupid. I know you aren't. I know you don't think that was irrefutably hair instead of something more plausible, like a shadow, or an ink smudge.

Please stop killing humanity.

IZUMI64 said:

DJIzzyIzzyHitler said:

whatevn said:
3 YEARS
AND PEOPLE ATILL DENATE ABOUT THIS

even the creator outright stating lelouch is dead doesnt shut them up

Yeah, they did officially announce that Lelouch is dead.

. CC said "as the price of casting geass on other people, you..."
we can interpreted Lelouch became immortal like what happened to CC.

you can't just blame to CG fanboys if they are still hoping Lelouch is still alive. Blame the anime staff for making such a vague ending.

Wtf? No. You cannot interpret that Lelouch became immortal from that line. The price for the geass is his life. How can you possibly miss something so obvious?

And no. Do not blame the staff. Lelouch took a friggin sword to the heart. THAT'S vague? Are you kidding me?

c22 said:
Luloush

WHO IS LULOUSH? WHO? TELL ME RIGHT NOW. HOW CAN YOU MANAGE TO SPELL THE MAIN CHARACTERS NAME WRONG?

AriaFlameMay 24, 2013 9:05 PM

Jun 21, 2013 12:39 AM

#56

AriaFlame

Offline

Nov 2011

64

SacroSanct said:
The anime ending is just too vague. It was probably made so that they could either make a sequel by a random struck of script genius, or claim Lelouch is dead if they couldn't come up with material.

Seriously. Why have a scene of the cart driver with his upper face(eyes importantly) by his hat for 3 seconds. Then, have a 4 second screen pan-up of the side of said cart driver conveniently just at the edge of the white cloth. At the very edge of said cloth where it would be worn as to not block said driver's eyes. It's like everything was made to block that character's eyes. They might as well have shown a sterotypical old anime man with wrinkly skin with his eyes closed, or not show him at all and just have the top view of C.C.'s hot body. Who the fuck is that cart driver anyway? Why is he carrying C.C. with him? Don't tell me this is gonna be a spice and wolf scene where peddler meets immortal girl hitch hiker.

Fans will be fans. The endless debate on Lelouch's real intent is quite fascinating. Plot inconsistencies aside, if we only talked about Lelouch.

Would he really have atoned for his sin by dying? Immortality is also punishment, is it not? On a side side not if C.C. is still immortal, then that'd suck for her.

Would he have manipulated everyone to think he is dead as it would hold the same effect if he really was? Like how Suzaku asked him to "lie till the end" on their "1 on 1" meeting at the temple.

Either way, it just shows how decent the anime is. The word justice and right is used so often, yet we as viewers can not fully side with any of the characters. A lot of the characters had their principles broken by other people or by themselves. Most of them have endured a dark past, each with a different vision on how to save the world, mostly using evil things to achieve it. Most prominently showcased on Lelouch's statement of Charles wanting the past, Schneizel wanting the present, and him wanting the future.

It wasn't vague. He took a sword. Through. His. Chest.

Sword+ Chest = Dead.

The way people question the man in the hat makes me laugh and shudder at the same time - I mean, come on, you're grasping at straws. The way people argue for the hat guys importance could be applied to anything- ex) what is the purpose of the people screaming about how bad and evil lelouch is at the end? It's like everything was made for them to scream and blame him at the end.

But here, where the reason is obvious, you little plebs can see the answer- they are used to set the tone. Now apply the obvious to the cart scene, plebs.

By covering up his face, they remove his importance. Please note- they didn't throw a god damn mask on him, they barely brushed by him. Hatted-Cart-Man was a device used to set the tone of the ending- a completely unknown guy just doing his job, living an unassuming life, and he carries C.C., most likely because she just hitched a ride (>inb4 NTR). The meaning behind this is clear, she intends to live on and have a humble life, just as the guy driving the cart is.

Using a young man with a known face would just provide unwanted NTR fantasies among people, as his face being known would provide a suggestion of importance. Notice that the face of someone being known represents importance- Shirley's mental breakdown, vying to see the faces of people, and the more obvious- "Who is Zero" thing going on, where people want to know who he is.

The subway scene in R1 also points out this importance, as the first thing they asked for was his face, automatically associating the face with importance for the rest of the series. They also wanted to make cart man a "symbol" (like Zero becoming a symbol) for her being carried into her new life, hence the facelessness.

Now, hopefully you see that your idea of just showing C.C's body alone. has been blown out of the water, since that would diminish the effect of the humble man. To address the old man bit- the goal was to set the mood. She's not going to age. That presents a bit of an obvious problem.

You could argue that an old person would represent her completely shedding her idol-esque status, but that is a blatant contradiction to her ending statement- "I guess the power of the king doesn't isolate you after all" (or something to that effect). In other words, she has accepted the Geass and all that it entails- including her Code. She's going to be humble and live her immortal life peacefully. This ties into her scene with Kallen, where she's surprised she still has feelings of win/lose - in other words, surprised she wasn't actually "humble".

She simply created an image of herself which explains how aloof she tries to appear with Lelouch in the beginning, but naturally loses her facade. At the end, her facade becomes reality; her humble self that she projected as a result of the Geass/ Code is now how she will actually live.

Also, an old man driving a young woman in the heat is just weird. Ignoring the sexual innuendo, he's old. He can't move, damn it.

Immortality is not a punishment. C.C. felt it was because she was alone. If Lelouch lived, then they had each other. How punishing? I already addressed C.C. being immortal and alone in my previous argument about the cart guy.

And no. The lie til the end was just Suzaku telling Lelouch to be the villain he created. Lelouch told Suzaku he did the atrocious things that were actually in fact accidents in order to portray himself as a villain, and Suzaku, upon realizing Lelouch was BSing, told him to actually become the villain, which created the basis for the Zero Requiem.

AriaFlameJun 21, 2013 12:48 AM

Jun 23, 2013 9:28 AM

#57

Bigmaccas

Offline

Jun 2013

1

Thought this might help :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeHmVBf0NJ8

Jun 24, 2013 10:43 AM

#58

AriaFlame

Offline

Nov 2011

64

Yellow101 said:
Thought this might help :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeHmVBf0NJ8

That's not from the dvd. It's a fan made fake. Go back to the Zero Requiem revelation scene and listen to the laugh that Lelouch makes. They simply c+p'd it onto that scene.
Do you honestly think they couldn't afford to have fukuyama jun laugh?

And obviously the symbol in the top right vanishes, which points to a fake. Granted, it vanished in other parts of the video too, where the colours are light/almost white, but the hat of the driver is dark enough for it to appear. Unless you somehow want to posit that brown is lighter than the blue sky.

AriaFlameJun 24, 2013 10:51 AM

Jun 24, 2013 10:50 AM

#59

NickyCharisma

Offline

Oct 2012

1777

Does any other medium have these long winded fan debates? Are people still talking about the end of the Sopranos or Lost in Translation?

Let this be our little secret, no needs to know we're feeling HIGHER AND HIGHER AND HIGHER!

Aug 13, 2013 6:38 PM

#60

Valencia

Offline

Jan 2012

198

He's ALIVE! He's ALIVE I tell you! ^.^

Aug 30, 2013 3:46 PM

#61

NOChamp

Offline

May 2013

2

Ok even if Lelouch was being selfless to make a better world for Nunally I think he adequately showed near the end of the series in his battle with his brother that he was done losing. I mean lets be honest throughout the series if Lelouch was ever caught "in check" he always bounced back that's why I say he is definitely alive.

Sep 1, 2013 8:43 PM

#62

Valencia

Offline

Jan 2012

198

I have reason that he is alive. Ok, let me start! First of all when Lelouch check mate Schneizel before he could escape, he used his geass on him and said "You will obey Zero", but think about it. Why didn't he just say "You will obey Lelouch"? And now that geass will come into affect when Lelouch talks to Suzaku about his plan, as he talks he said "Schneizel too will obey and follow Zero". My guess is if that order from Lelouch's geass said to obey Zero (which is Suzaku now) mean that geass order is still in affect on Schneizel and that Lelouch is not yet dead!

Sep 6, 2013 4:02 AM

#63

Fundog

Offline

Nov 2010

586

Forgetfulness said:

Valencia said:
I have reason that he is alive. Ok, let me start! First of all when Lelouch check mate Schneizel before he could escape, he used his geass on him and said "You will obey Zero", but think about it. Why didn't he just say "You will obey Lelouch"? And now that geass will come into affect when Lelouch talks to Suzaku about his plan, as he talks he said "Schneizel too will obey and follow Zero". My guess is if that order from Lelouch's geass said to obey Zero (which is Suzaku now) mean that geass order is still in affect on Schneizel and that Lelouch is not yet dead!

Wow...the things some of you guys come up with to defend that argument...

Okay, let's just take this real simple
1. The anime says he's dead. Self-explanatory
2. The director's also say he's dead. Well, at least until I get some REAL proof of "director's cut" (the Youtube one is fake) or "Lelouch vi Britannia's story ended". As of now, I have only seen the proof below
http://atashi.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/code-geass-r2-the-complete-official-guidebook-review/

therefore, he is dead. Now how hard was that?

Forgetfulness said:

Valencia said:
I have reason that he is alive. Ok, let me start! First of all when Lelouch check mate Schneizel before he could escape, he used his geass on him and said "You will obey Zero", but think about it. Why didn't he just say "You will obey Lelouch"? And now that geass will come into affect when Lelouch talks to Suzaku about his plan, as he talks he said "Schneizel too will obey and follow Zero". My guess is if that order from Lelouch's geass said to obey Zero (which is Suzaku now) mean that geass order is still in affect on Schneizel and that Lelouch is not yet dead!

Wow...the things some of you guys come up with to defend that argument...

Okay, let's just take this real simple
1. The anime says he's dead. Self-explanatory
2. The director's also say he's dead. Well, at least until I get some REAL proof of "director's cut" (the Youtube one is fake) or "Lelouch vi Britannia's story ended". As of now, I have only seen the proof below
http://atashi.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/code-geass-r2-the-complete-official-guidebook-review/

therefore, he is dead. Now how hard was that?

1. Never says he's dead. Only a bunch of easily deceived characters that Lelouch has deceived during the whole series anyway. The only person who Lelouch has been completely honest with is CC.
2. Other than the fact that I only use anime for facts about the anime, the director was referring to Lelouch Lamperouge being dead, because he is now a Code Bearer. He is now L.L or R2, the name of the second season. It's obvious that the creators deliberately created his initials to be repeated. In fact, C.C even hinted at this in the first season, when she asks Lelouch why he chose to keep the surname Lamperouge.

But honestly, I don't expect you to understand all this, given you clearly don't understand the series, instead blindly criticising the second season of being a 'trainwreck', simply because you don't understand the message the author is trying to convey.

And stop using external sources not originating from the anime to argue your point please.

Yoshii Kiria took over as leader of Fairytale and rebuilt it and became one of Tsukunes formidable enemies but let's save that story for another time

Hehe, let me introduce him to you again, kid. This is Shuzen Issa (who is MIA during the final battle), who will become your 'trainer' starting today. You still have much to go if you want to become the headmaster.

Like the two souls have started to become one.

Sep 6, 2013 4:25 AM

#64

Fundog

Offline

Nov 2010

586

AriaFlame said:

SacroSanct said:
The anime ending is just too vague. It was probably made so that they could either make a sequel by a random struck of script genius, or claim Lelouch is dead if they couldn't come up with material.

Seriously. Why have a scene of the cart driver with his upper face(eyes importantly) by his hat for 3 seconds. Then, have a 4 second screen pan-up of the side of said cart driver conveniently just at the edge of the white cloth. At the very edge of said cloth where it would be worn as to not block said driver's eyes. It's like everything was made to block that character's eyes. They might as well have shown a sterotypical old anime man with wrinkly skin with his eyes closed, or not show him at all and just have the top view of C.C.'s hot body. Who the fuck is that cart driver anyway? Why is he carrying C.C. with him? Don't tell me this is gonna be a spice and wolf scene where peddler meets immortal girl hitch hiker.

Fans will be fans. The endless debate on Lelouch's real intent is quite fascinating. Plot inconsistencies aside, if we only talked about Lelouch.

Would he really have atoned for his sin by dying? Immortality is also punishment, is it not? On a side side not if C.C. is still immortal, then that'd suck for her.

Would he have manipulated everyone to think he is dead as it would hold the same effect if he really was? Like how Suzaku asked him to "lie till the end" on their "1 on 1" meeting at the temple.

Either way, it just shows how decent the anime is. The word justice and right is used so often, yet we as viewers can not fully side with any of the characters. A lot of the characters had their principles broken by other people or by themselves. Most of them have endured a dark past, each with a different vision on how to save the world, mostly using evil things to achieve it. Most prominently showcased on Lelouch's statement of Charles wanting the past, Schneizel wanting the present, and him wanting the future.

It wasn't vague. He took a sword. Through. His. Chest.

Sword+ Chest = Dead.

The way people question the man in the hat makes me laugh and shudder at the same time - I mean, come on, you're grasping at straws. The way people argue for the hat guys importance could be applied to anything- ex) what is the purpose of the people screaming about how bad and evil lelouch is at the end? It's like everything was made for them to scream and blame him at the end.

But here, where the reason is obvious, you little plebs can see the answer- they are used to set the tone. Now apply the obvious to the cart scene, plebs.

By covering up his face, they remove his importance. Please note- they didn't throw a god damn mask on him, they barely brushed by him. Hatted-Cart-Man was a device used to set the tone of the ending- a completely unknown guy just doing his job, living an unassuming life, and he carries C.C., most likely because she just hitched a ride (>inb4 NTR). The meaning behind this is clear, she intends to live on and have a humble life, just as the guy driving the cart is.

Using a young man with a known face would just provide unwanted NTR fantasies among people, as his face being known would provide a suggestion of importance. Notice that the face of someone being known represents importance- Shirley's mental breakdown, vying to see the faces of people, and the more obvious- "Who is Zero" thing going on, where people want to know who he is.

The subway scene in R1 also points out this importance, as the first thing they asked for was his face, automatically associating the face with importance for the rest of the series. They also wanted to make cart man a "symbol" (like Zero becoming a symbol) for her being carried into her new life, hence the facelessness.

Now, hopefully you see that your idea of just showing C.C's body alone. has been blown out of the water, since that would diminish the effect of the humble man. To address the old man bit- the goal was to set the mood. She's not going to age. That presents a bit of an obvious problem.

You could argue that an old person would represent her completely shedding her idol-esque status, but that is a blatant contradiction to her ending statement- "I guess the power of the king doesn't isolate you after all" (or something to that effect). In other words, she has accepted the Geass and all that it entails- including her Code. She's going to be humble and live her immortal life peacefully. This ties into her scene with Kallen, where she's surprised she still has feelings of win/lose - in other words, surprised she wasn't actually "humble".

She simply created an image of herself which explains how aloof she tries to appear with Lelouch in the beginning, but naturally loses her facade. At the end, her facade becomes reality; her humble self that she projected as a result of the Geass/ Code is now how she will actually live.

Also, an old man driving a young woman in the heat is just weird. Ignoring the sexual innuendo, he's old. He can't move, damn it.

Immortality is not a punishment. C.C. felt it was because she was alone. If Lelouch lived, then they had each other. How punishing? I already addressed C.C. being immortal and alone in my previous argument about the cart guy.

And no. The lie til the end was just Suzaku telling Lelouch to be the villain he created. Lelouch told Suzaku he did the atrocious things that were actually in fact accidents in order to portray himself as a villain, and Suzaku, upon realizing Lelouch was BSing, told him to actually become the villain, which created the basis for the Zero Requiem.

Oh you mean like how Charles died when he shot himself? Or like how Mao died when he got shot a bunch of times?
No the man in the hat must be Lelouch and no other. Why? Because, out of everyone in C.C’s long life, she admits that Lelouch is truly special. He is the only one to ever thank her, the only one to get close to fulfilling his contract, the only one who is grateful for the Geass she gave him, and most importantly, the only one to give her a reason to live. It has been mentioned multiple times in the anime, since the very beginning that both of them needed a reason to live.
Lelouch’s main reason in the series was to avenge his mother and make a better world for Nunally. However, that changed in episode 15 of first season, when he said, that he would fulfil both their wishes, and it even shows that Lelouch is the one to reinstate their contract. In episode 15 of second season, Lelouch renews his vow to make C.C’s one wish come true. To make her smile. Now how can he make her smile/be loved if she realises that her only chance to die was taken from her by someone who supposedly would make her feel loved and then deserted him??? That would be the ultimate betrayal, given everyone she has done for him, even during the short period of time where she lost her memories. Lelouch has lied to the whole world about everything, including his death, but never to C.C, because she is the only person in the series who he has been completely honest to, and she is the only person to know her name.
In other words, the bond between C.C and Lelouch is a bond that she will most likely never share or has shared with any other person. Now, why would she feel content letting a complete stranger into her life? That person could most likely be one of the many thousands who have shunned and tortured her in the past.
The cart man is not a symbol. C.C would not be so ignorant as to believe all people are like Lelouch. This ‘new life’ you are referring to…if it is indeed with another random mortal, how is that any different than what she’s lived for so many years?? She will never be able to enjoy life because mortals will never understand her, Geass, immortality. Thus she will always have to be wary of mortals and will live the same life as before.
C.C’s final comment about power of the king – someone already explained that it was because Lelouch will indeed be isolated. The world he created, all the sacrifices he made for Nunally, he will never be able to see it. That pain of never knowing if Nunally is safe, that is the isolation. However, ‘not quite correct’ means that at least he can spend his solitude with C.C. You are misinterpreting what she meant in the Kallen scene. She never thought that she would be fighting for someone else, in other words, she never thought that she would have a ‘reason for living’.
Immortality is indeed a punishment, Lelouch will know that in 100 years, with certainty, everyone he loved will have died, and there is the chance that he will grow tired of C.C. What then?? Because of the sacrifice C.C made to seal away her Code and choose to live, Lelouch can never abandon her no matter what.

Yoshii Kiria took over as leader of Fairytale and rebuilt it and became one of Tsukunes formidable enemies but let's save that story for another time

Hehe, let me introduce him to you again, kid. This is Shuzen Issa (who is MIA during the final battle), who will become your 'trainer' starting today. You still have much to go if you want to become the headmaster.

Like the two souls have started to become one.

Sep 7, 2013 8:34 PM

#65

Fundog

Offline

Nov 2010

586

Forgetfulness said:

Cawickeng said:

Forgetfulness said:

Valencia said:
I have reason that he is alive. Ok, let me start! First of all when Lelouch check mate Schneizel before he could escape, he used his geass on him and said "You will obey Zero", but think about it. Why didn't he just say "You will obey Lelouch"? And now that geass will come into affect when Lelouch talks to Suzaku about his plan, as he talks he said "Schneizel too will obey and follow Zero". My guess is if that order from Lelouch's geass said to obey Zero (which is Suzaku now) mean that geass order is still in affect on Schneizel and that Lelouch is not yet dead!

Wow...the things some of you guys come up with to defend that argument...

Okay, let's just take this real simple
1. The anime says he's dead. Self-explanatory
2. The director's also say he's dead. Well, at least until I get some REAL proof of "director's cut" (the Youtube one is fake) or "Lelouch vi Britannia's story ended". As of now, I have only seen the proof below
http://atashi.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/code-geass-r2-the-complete-official-guidebook-review/

therefore, he is dead. Now how hard was that?

Forgetfulness said:

Valencia said:
I have reason that he is alive. Ok, let me start! First of all when Lelouch check mate Schneizel before he could escape, he used his geass on him and said "You will obey Zero", but think about it. Why didn't he just say "You will obey Lelouch"? And now that geass will come into affect when Lelouch talks to Suzaku about his plan, as he talks he said "Schneizel too will obey and follow Zero". My guess is if that order from Lelouch's geass said to obey Zero (which is Suzaku now) mean that geass order is still in affect on Schneizel and that Lelouch is not yet dead!

Wow...the things some of you guys come up with to defend that argument...

Okay, let's just take this real simple
1. The anime says he's dead. Self-explanatory
2. The director's also say he's dead. Well, at least until I get some REAL proof of "director's cut" (the Youtube one is fake) or "Lelouch vi Britannia's story ended". As of now, I have only seen the proof below
http://atashi.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/code-geass-r2-the-complete-official-guidebook-review/

therefore, he is dead. Now how hard was that?

1. Never says he's dead. Only a bunch of easily deceived characters that Lelouch has deceived during the whole series anyway. The only person who Lelouch has been completely honest with is CC.
2. Other than the fact that I only use anime for facts about the anime, the director was referring to Lelouch Lamperouge being dead, because he is now a Code Bearer. He is now L.L or R2, the name of the second season. It's obvious that the creators deliberately created his initials to be repeated. In fact, C.C even hinted at this in the first season, when she asks Lelouch why he chose to keep the surname Lamperouge.

But honestly, I don't expect you to understand all this, given you clearly don't understand the series, instead blindly criticising the second season of being a 'trainwreck', simply because you don't understand the message the author is trying to convey.

And stop using external sources not originating from the anime to argue your point please.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. "don't understand the series" he says. Look, I've seen every single argument for "Lelouch is alive" and NONE of them are solid proof. There is like 1 inconsistency/plothole and 1 implication. Nothing else.
Also, calling me out for using something outside the anime. That's rich, considering how like almost all the "Lelouch is alive" theory is not supported by the story, the Youtube video so many of you use is fake, AND you guys claim that the director said that "Lelouch vi Brittania's story is over"

Let me give you a quick summary of the most convincing arguments/counterarguments why Lelouch is dead
1. First episode,
Lelouch: "only those who are prepared to be killed should kill"
Very last episode, RIGHT BEFORE HE IS KILLED
Lelouch: "only those who are prepared to be killed should kill"
If any of you guys are retarded enough to even THINK he would enjoy a nice and happy life after, then YOU didn't understand Lelouch

2. You guys say that C.C. is the only one he's been true to, but she ALSO implies that Lelouch is going to die. In a scene before he is about to die, she is shown in a church praying and crying, saying "The price of the Geass you're about to cast is...". Now what is the end of the sentence? It's obviously death.
It's not immortality, C.C. was sad because she was alone but that would not be the case with Lelouch

3. Death is NOT a requirement for Code. I'm pretty sure you guys are misinterpreting the scene where Lelouch commands Charles to die. There are fucking huge inconsistencies with that scene. Even a blind monkey would be able to tell that the Geass did not work. There is no Geass sign coming out of Lelouch's eyes, there is no brain altering scene, there are no red rings around Charles eyes and Charles is the only person in the whole show to shoot himself in the heart under Geass (everyone else goes for the neck). Why is this? Because Charles is fucking around with Lelouch to lower his guard and make him come closer. Notice how he comes back up like immediately after Lelouch walks over.

4. If you claim that Lelouch Lamperouge = Rerouch Ramperouge = R2, then tell me. What is Code Charles zi Brittania's abbreviated name? Oh wait he doesn't fucking have one because the series never says that's how you name code users

5. C.C. was not talking to the diver ("Lelouch"). If you watch the scene again, she moves her head like 10 fucking pixels. That isn't nodding to the driver, that's looking at the sky and pretending to talk to a dead person (because the sky is linked to the idea of heaven or afterlife). Saying that the driver is Lelouch because "C.C. is talking to him" must mean that Lelouch lives in Kallen's head because she can talk to him too at the end

6. Lelouch did NOT take Code from Charles. Charles was killed by "God" or "humanity", not Lelouch so he would not inherit Code that way. I also know that some of you argue "Charles must have transferred or lost his Code somehow otherwise he wouldn't have been able to die". No, that's not right either as you can CLEARLY see the Code mark on his hand while he is disappearing. Clearly, in Geassverse, "God" trumps some Geass ability.

I'm probably missing some others cause I haven't went full out arguing this for a while

Now I WILL acknowledge the few theories that I can't disprove
1. Nunally seeing Lelouch's memory
2. The song "Continued Story"'s lyrics are "Lets meet again if we are still alive" or something

Now from those two pieces (well the second one hardly even counts because the fucking background music. It's just there to listen to, not tell the story), I think it's safer to conclude that the first part is just a plot hole. The whole "Lelouch is alive" theory is retarded, trying to change a perfectly clear ending (to quote "Sword + Chest = Dead", Lelouch did not take Code from Charles) based off like one or two plotholes.

Firstly, I don’t use the fake video on Youtube.

1. What Lelouch said about “those who are prepared to be killed should kill” means he intends to die, and be reborn as an immortal. Lelouch is dead, reborn as R.R. Throughout the series, it has been shown that the life of the human and the life of the immortal are two different people. C.C admits that those who loved and hated her have disappeared into the current of time. She says that her only memories are those of a witch. That’s why Lelouch keeps the pink origami crane, because in time, that will be the only way he will ever remember his sister, and why he sacrificed everything. Hence, him being 'killed' means that he leaves his human life, and is reincarnated into an immortal. Furthermore, by thinking that Lelouch actually lives by his principles, it is clear that you are the one who doesn’t understand his character at all. Lelouch is a hypocrite.

2. No, that is what the fans think. What C.C said was open ended, and it is up to us to interpret it based on the anime. C.C does not think that death is the ultimate punishment, if Suzaku lives after destroying Japan and annihilating millions of lives, Lelouch will get a similar punishment, solitude. And no, C.C was not crying for herself, this was indicated in the previous episode where she herself admitted that she was surprised she cared about winning/losing. Meaning she now has a reason to give a crap about life, that reason is Lelouch. C.C won’t cry if Lelouch did die, because it would mean that after all that talk about giving her a smile, and giving her a reason to live, Lelouch went back on his decision, betraying her in the ultimate way. In other words, she would feel betrayed and hate Lelouch. But no, she cries because Lelouch has to suffer like she does despite his intentions being good. The hero who created peace and everything for his sister, has to pay the ultimate price of solitude. The price of Geass has been stated time and time again to be solitude, not death.

3. Never said death is a requirement. What do you mean the Geass did not work?? Lelouch commanded God to continue the forward march of time. Those who did not agree with this were absorbed by C’s world. What brain altering scene are you talking about? No Geass sign?? He had a Geass on each eye… That scene only shows that Code bearers take a very short amount of time to regenerate. C.C only pretended to be dead for ages.
4. No it simply goes to show that Charles is not destined to wield the code for long.

5. The difference is the context. It is very clear that Kallen is narrating whereas C.C wasn’t. And again, she wouldn’t smile knowing that Lelouch betrayed her.

6. Yes, God killed Charles. Yes, it is obvious the creators of the series deliberately showed that Charles still bears the ‘mark of Geass’. C.C is spared because she believes in tomorrow. In other words, those who believe in a tomorrow are spared from being absorbed into C’s world. Charles lunges at Lelouch. Suzaku attempts to get in the way. Lelouch commands him to back off. Why? Because he knows it’s the only way to fulfil both his and C.C’s wish. He knows, thanks to his own actions that there are no more Geass users. He even says that ‘if Geass is the power of the King, then I alone shall have it’. In the end, he is indeed the only one to wield this power. It has been shown that you can possess more than one Code at a time. Charles showed that when he attempted to take C.C’s code while already possessing V’V’s. The only way C.C prevented that from happening is by sealing away her Code. Charles didn’t do that, cos he was too shocked and wanted to take down Lelouch during his final moments.

Continued story – More importantly, the English lyrics at the start – ‘can I share your pain and shed it away.’ This shows that C.C is willing to share the pain of solitude with Lelouch. No the song is also used to tell the story. In fact, it is the only part of the story which shows C.C’s true feelings, her sadness that she has brought solitude upon someone she loved. However, since Lelouch has accepted responsibility for his actions, she is content as well.

Also, there’s also the matter that the first episode of both seasons states that Lelouch is a demon. He admits that he is a demon in episode 25 first season, much like how C.C is a witch. C.C calls him a devil in Episode 11, 13 or something in season 2. Notice how after episode 21, when he defeats Charles, people like Nunally and Cornelia start calling him a demon as well.

You may think that it is the perfect ending for him to die, but you are not being objective. People with lesser crimes have also died, why does he receive the same exit they get. Furthermore, C.C will have to suffer for eternity even though her crimes pale in comparison to anything Lelouch did.

FundogSep 7, 2013 8:47 PM

Yoshii Kiria took over as leader of Fairytale and rebuilt it and became one of Tsukunes formidable enemies but let's save that story for another time

Hehe, let me introduce him to you again, kid. This is Shuzen Issa (who is MIA during the final battle), who will become your 'trainer' starting today. You still have much to go if you want to become the headmaster.

Like the two souls have started to become one.

Sep 7, 2013 9:29 PM

#66

Sexy_Lady

Offline

Aug 2013

134

Shut up OP, fucking Lelouch is dead, deal wiith it

YOKO ONO

Sep 7, 2013 9:35 PM

#67

Red_Keys

Offline

Sep 2012

19238

The real ending, huh.

I think I saw a yaoi doujin with Suzaku and Lelouch. It was like some tragic love thing, and they fucked right before they carried out their plan in the last episode.

That's the real ending I'll believe.

Sep 7, 2013 10:49 PM

#68

Fundog

Offline

Nov 2010

586

Forgetfulness said:
1. What is this I don't even? "he intends to die, and be reborn as an immortal" hahaha, what the hell is this? Lelouch had the same principle in the first and last episodes. Lelouch obviously did not mean "I'm going to die and become a Code user" in the FIRST EPISODE so it is only logical that's also what he means in the LAST EPISODE since he says the EXACT SAME THING.

2. Oh yeah, when Nunnally "died" all those episodes back, C.C. was weeping rivers for Lelouch cause he was 5ever alonez...oh wai-

3. Uh, I was explaining the scene where Lelouch commands Charles to die, not when he commands God to kill Charles.. That's what the whole "Code activates after death" theory is based on right?
Isn't it that you guys think: Charles was "affected" by Geass even after he took the Code from V.V. He is affected by Geass then but the power of Code is shown to work after he gets up, hence the theory that "Code activates after death"

4. Or your argument sucks and you could just admit that you have this one wrong

5. C.C. is looking at the sky, symbolic for the afterlife. How is the context any different?

6. Well that's just stupid because C.C. has her Code and never gave it away. Hence, your "only one king" theory is wrong. Also, I don't think Charles ever tried to take C.C.'s Code WHILE ALREADY HAVING V.V. It's been a while since I watched it but I'm PRETTY SURE he took V.V.'s code AFTER failing to take C.C.'s

I'm not even going to argue with Continued Story. Background music =/= plot, or I could just make up a whole load of shit based off it. For example, the line "Let's meet again someday...if we're still alive". Who is he meeting? He's already with C.C. by your theory. He can't meet anyone else because the whole world hates him. Explain please

I don't care about your objectivity. See point 1., it's not me that thinks it's a perfect end for Lelouch, it's LELOUCH HIMSELF that thinks that way.

1. No he didn’t. In episode 1, he is fighting for himself and Nunally, but now he is doing it for C.C as well. He even said in episode 5 or 7 of the first season, that he was a corpse slowly approaching his death. In episode 24 of R2, C.C even said that she changed his destiny with his Geass. Just because the same thing was said doesn’t mean they have the same meaning. If you think that those mean the same, then you completely ignore the character develop of Lelouch, and that he now has a reason for living. Furthermore, Lelouch will most likely lose all his memories as I said before. Hence, he can be classified as being ‘dead’ in the same sense that Bartholomew Kuma is considered dead in One Piece. Hence the person Lelouch was, is now ‘killed’.

2. What are you talking about? When Nunally ‘died’, CC lost her memories.

3. I never believed in the Geass activating after death thing, in every case where a person takes a Code, the original Code bearer died of injuries.

4. Or it could simply be the fact that people who are destined to wield the Code are young, which Lelouch, CC and VV are. But since it is unlikely that the creators of the series will elaborate on this, I can agree to disagree on this one.

5. She is talking to the actual person, whilst Kallen is speaking as a narrator in her mind.

6. Yes, she sealed her Code away. However, Charles proved that you are capable of taking a Code from someone else not related to your contract. Therefore, Lelouch took Charles’ code. The fact that Charles never intended on taking V.V's code demonstrates that you do not need to possess a Code already to take an unrelated Code.
7. Fair point about the song, I haven’t look at the Japanese lyrics in detail.
Lelouch wouldn’t think the perfect ending would be death, because then C.C would be alone.

Yoshii Kiria took over as leader of Fairytale and rebuilt it and became one of Tsukunes formidable enemies but let's save that story for another time

Hehe, let me introduce him to you again, kid. This is Shuzen Issa (who is MIA during the final battle), who will become your 'trainer' starting today. You still have much to go if you want to become the headmaster.

Like the two souls have started to become one.

Sep 8, 2013 5:48 PM

#69

Fundog

Offline

Nov 2010

586

Forgetfulness said:

Cawickeng said:

Forgetfulness said:
1. What is this I don't even? "he intends to die, and be reborn as an immortal" hahaha, what the hell is this? Lelouch had the same principle in the first and last episodes. Lelouch obviously did not mean "I'm going to die and become a Code user" in the FIRST EPISODE so it is only logical that's also what he means in the LAST EPISODE since he says the EXACT SAME THING.

2. Oh yeah, when Nunnally "died" all those episodes back, C.C. was weeping rivers for Lelouch cause he was 5ever alonez...oh wai-

3. Uh, I was explaining the scene where Lelouch commands Charles to die, not when he commands God to kill Charles.. That's what the whole "Code activates after death" theory is based on right?
Isn't it that you guys think: Charles was "affected" by Geass even after he took the Code from V.V. He is affected by Geass then but the power of Code is shown to work after he gets up, hence the theory that "Code activates after death"

4. Or your argument sucks and you could just admit that you have this one wrong

5. C.C. is looking at the sky, symbolic for the afterlife. How is the context any different?

6. Well that's just stupid because C.C. has her Code and never gave it away. Hence, your "only one king" theory is wrong. Also, I don't think Charles ever tried to take C.C.'s Code WHILE ALREADY HAVING V.V. It's been a while since I watched it but I'm PRETTY SURE he took V.V.'s code AFTER failing to take C.C.'s

I'm not even going to argue with Continued Story. Background music =/= plot, or I could just make up a whole load of shit based off it. For example, the line "Let's meet again someday...if we're still alive". Who is he meeting? He's already with C.C. by your theory. He can't meet anyone else because the whole world hates him. Explain please

I don't care about your objectivity. See point 1., it's not me that thinks it's a perfect end for Lelouch, it's LELOUCH HIMSELF that thinks that way.

1. No he didn’t. In episode 1, he is fighting for himself and Nunally, but now he is doing it for C.C as well. He even said in episode 5 or 7 of the first season, that he was a corpse slowly approaching his death. In episode 24 of R2, C.C even said that she changed his destiny with his Geass. Just because the same thing was said doesn’t mean they have the same meaning. If you think that those mean the same, then you completely ignore the character develop of Lelouch, and that he now has a reason for living. Furthermore, Lelouch will most likely lose all his memories as I said before. Hence, he can be classified as being ‘dead’ in the same sense that Bartholomew Kuma is considered dead in One Piece. Hence the person Lelouch was, is now ‘killed’.

2. What are you talking about? When Nunally ‘died’, CC lost her memories.

3. I never believed in the Geass activating after death thing, in every case where a person takes a Code, the original Code bearer died of injuries.

4. Or it could simply be the fact that people who are destined to wield the Code are young, which Lelouch, CC and VV are. But since it is unlikely that the creators of the series will elaborate on this, I can agree to disagree on this one.

5. She is talking to the actual person, whilst Kallen is speaking as a narrator in her mind.

6. Yes, she sealed her Code away. However, Charles proved that you are capable of taking a Code from someone else not related to your contract. Therefore, Lelouch took Charles’ code. The fact that Charles never intended on taking V.V's code demonstrates that you do not need to possess a Code already to take an unrelated Code.
7. Fair point about the song, I haven’t look at the Japanese lyrics in detail.
Lelouch wouldn’t think the perfect ending would be death, because then C.C would be alone.

1. I don't even know why we're arguing about Nunnally and C.C.. I don't know how "only those who are prepared to be killed should kill" could be interpreted any other way than for him to DIE when he is KILLED.
2. As have I, apparently
3. "he intends to die, and be reborn as an immortal". Consistency please
4. What the fuck does age have to do with your name?
5. Her head moves like 10 pixels. I refuse to believe she was nodding to Lelouch
6. Okay, I admit it's a POSSIBILITY that he took the Code at the very last second, but it is not definite and we don't even know that much regarding the rules of Codes
7. Maybe not a perfect ending, but it would be a fitting ending considering that he's killed/caused the death of countless people.

1. I already explained why he said the same phrase in the last episode. Lelouch the person is getting killed, because all Code bearers are different people than what they were when they were mortal. I explained the only reason plausible for why there is a pink crane in the carriage at the end. If Lelouch was dead, and CC wanted to remember him, she would’ve got something like a Zero mask, as it represents the person that is Lelouch.

3. I think you misunderstood my point. I mean that by ‘dying’ in front of the world, he will have fulfilled his first wish of bring peace to the world. Being ‘reborn as an immortal’, I mean that he will now live his life as an immortal.

4. I am simply saying that is one possibility. We do not know the true reason for Geass’ explanation except that it seems the ‘collective consciousness’ in C’s world seeks the future. Suzaku said that himself. Out of all Code bearers, only Charles has not followed this path; I am saying that that might be the reason why he does not have the repeated initials. He is not destined to bring a change.

5. Yes, but remember she is smiling. Why would she say Lelouch’s name so fondly if he betrayed her in the end. Furthermore, why would she say that Lelouch was special compared to any other man she met if he was gonna leave her in solitude? Why would she trust that random carriage driver if even the special Lelouch has been proven to be untrustworthy. Why would she help Lelouch with Zero’s requiem if she knew that Lelouch was going to leave her and not fulfil the contract?? Why would be the carriage driver be covering his face? Also, she says to Kallen that she made a promise. Do you really think it’s something so simple as enjoying life while Lelouch leaves her? Lelouch promised that he will make her feel loved. The promise is most likely something along the lines of ‘help me with Zero’s requiem and I will come back with you’. In fact, Lelouch even promises that he will return to her.

7. Again, if Lelouch does die, the story will be incomplete, since he will only have fulfilled half of his goals. He will die with a contract unfulfilled. How is that different than what happened with Mao?

Forgetfulness said:

Cawickeng said:

Forgetfulness said:
1. What is this I don't even? "he intends to die, and be reborn as an immortal" hahaha, what the hell is this? Lelouch had the same principle in the first and last episodes. Lelouch obviously did not mean "I'm going to die and become a Code user" in the FIRST EPISODE so it is only logical that's also what he means in the LAST EPISODE since he says the EXACT SAME THING.

2. Oh yeah, when Nunnally "died" all those episodes back, C.C. was weeping rivers for Lelouch cause he was 5ever alonez...oh wai-

3. Uh, I was explaining the scene where Lelouch commands Charles to die, not when he commands God to kill Charles.. That's what the whole "Code activates after death" theory is based on right?
Isn't it that you guys think: Charles was "affected" by Geass even after he took the Code from V.V. He is affected by Geass then but the power of Code is shown to work after he gets up, hence the theory that "Code activates after death"

4. Or your argument sucks and you could just admit that you have this one wrong

5. C.C. is looking at the sky, symbolic for the afterlife. How is the context any different?

6. Well that's just stupid because C.C. has her Code and never gave it away. Hence, your "only one king" theory is wrong. Also, I don't think Charles ever tried to take C.C.'s Code WHILE ALREADY HAVING V.V. It's been a while since I watched it but I'm PRETTY SURE he took V.V.'s code AFTER failing to take C.C.'s

I'm not even going to argue with Continued Story. Background music =/= plot, or I could just make up a whole load of shit based off it. For example, the line "Let's meet again someday...if we're still alive". Who is he meeting? He's already with C.C. by your theory. He can't meet anyone else because the whole world hates him. Explain please

I don't care about your objectivity. See point 1., it's not me that thinks it's a perfect end for Lelouch, it's LELOUCH HIMSELF that thinks that way.

1. No he didn’t. In episode 1, he is fighting for himself and Nunally, but now he is doing it for C.C as well. He even said in episode 5 or 7 of the first season, that he was a corpse slowly approaching his death. In episode 24 of R2, C.C even said that she changed his destiny with his Geass. Just because the same thing was said doesn’t mean they have the same meaning. If you think that those mean the same, then you completely ignore the character develop of Lelouch, and that he now has a reason for living. Furthermore, Lelouch will most likely lose all his memories as I said before. Hence, he can be classified as being ‘dead’ in the same sense that Bartholomew Kuma is considered dead in One Piece. Hence the person Lelouch was, is now ‘killed’.

2. What are you talking about? When Nunally ‘died’, CC lost her memories.

3. I never believed in the Geass activating after death thing, in every case where a person takes a Code, the original Code bearer died of injuries.

4. Or it could simply be the fact that people who are destined to wield the Code are young, which Lelouch, CC and VV are. But since it is unlikely that the creators of the series will elaborate on this, I can agree to disagree on this one.

5. She is talking to the actual person, whilst Kallen is speaking as a narrator in her mind.

6. Yes, she sealed her Code away. However, Charles proved that you are capable of taking a Code from someone else not related to your contract. Therefore, Lelouch took Charles’ code. The fact that Charles never intended on taking V.V's code demonstrates that you do not need to possess a Code already to take an unrelated Code.
7. Fair point about the song, I haven’t look at the Japanese lyrics in detail.
Lelouch wouldn’t think the perfect ending would be death, because then C.C would be alone.

1. I don't even know why we're arguing about Nunnally and C.C.. I don't know how "only those who are prepared to be killed should kill" could be interpreted any other way than for him to DIE when he is KILLED.
2. As have I, apparently
3. "he intends to die, and be reborn as an immortal". Consistency please
4. What the fuck does age have to do with your name?
5. Her head moves like 10 pixels. I refuse to believe she was nodding to Lelouch
6. Okay, I admit it's a POSSIBILITY that he took the Code at the very last second, but it is not definite and we don't even know that much regarding the rules of Codes
7. Maybe not a perfect ending, but it would be a fitting ending considering that he's killed/caused the death of countless people.

1. I already explained why he said the same phrase in the last episode. Lelouch the person is getting killed, because all Code bearers are different people than what they were when they were mortal. I explained the only reason plausible for why there is a pink crane in the carriage at the end. If Lelouch was dead, and CC wanted to remember him, she would’ve got something like a Zero mask, as it represents the person that is Lelouch.

3. I think you misunderstood my point. I mean that by ‘dying’ in front of the world, he will have fulfilled his first wish of bring peace to the world. Being ‘reborn as an immortal’, I mean that he will now live his life as an immortal.

4. I am simply saying that is one possibility. We do not know the true reason for Geass’ explanation except that it seems the ‘collective consciousness’ in C’s world seeks the future. Suzaku said that himself. Out of all Code bearers, only Charles has not followed this path; I am saying that that might be the reason why he does not have the repeated initials. He is not destined to bring a change.

5. Yes, but remember she is smiling. Why would she say Lelouch’s name so fondly if he betrayed her in the end. Furthermore, why would she say that Lelouch was special compared to any other man she met if he was gonna leave her in solitude? Why would she trust that random carriage driver if even the special Lelouch has been proven to be untrustworthy. Why would she help Lelouch with Zero’s requiem if she knew that Lelouch was going to leave her and not fulfil the contract?? Why would be the carriage driver be covering his face? Also, she says to Kallen that she made a promise. Do you really think it’s something so simple as enjoying life while Lelouch leaves her? Lelouch promised that he will make her feel loved. The promise is most likely something along the lines of ‘help me with Zero’s requiem and I will come back with you’. In fact, Lelouch even promises that he will return to her.

7. Again, if Lelouch does die, the story will be incomplete, since he will only have fulfilled half of his goals. He will die with a contract unfulfilled. How is that different than what happened with Mao?

Yoshii Kiria took over as leader of Fairytale and rebuilt it and became one of Tsukunes formidable enemies but let's save that story for another time

Hehe, let me introduce him to you again, kid. This is Shuzen Issa (who is MIA during the final battle), who will become your 'trainer' starting today. You still have much to go if you want to become the headmaster.

Like the two souls have started to become one.

Sep 28, 2013 11:06 PM

#70

Valencia

Offline

Jan 2012

198

I swear this trend has been dead for months! And here i am starting a new argument with one little conclusion. LOL, this kills me. ^.^

Sep 30, 2013 9:17 PM

#71

15byou

Offline

Sep 2013

1

just registered to post this again because clearly nobody saw it if points other than this one are even being put up for either side:

http://atashi.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/code-geass-r2-the-complete-official-guidebook-review/

he's dead, get over it. him somehow being immortal would undermine the importance of what he did, anyway.

Oct 11, 2013 7:42 PM

#72

SAimNE

Offline

Mar 2013

1

you know, really didnt want to go through this, but i've read the quotes that say lelouch is dead..... except only the site ever claims he IS dead, they only say lelouch "died".

every person who had the code had died once(some twice tho that's where they actually die lol)..... every single one. so them constantly saying he HAS DIED, is not conclusive evidence that he IS DEAD.... the words have different meanings, and they are very important when you view the fact that the code revives people as immortals after they die.

also i should note that despite all these hints at his living being inconclusive.... why were they put into the show? there is almost no reason for most of these scenes/convos to be worded or showed the misleading way they were.... yet they all were portrayed in the exact way that would cause you to think he had "survived".

personally i'm not going to just throw all of that into the director coincidentally showing it that way, or just trying to troll people. right now there is A LOT of weird things that dont quite line up to say lelouch is dead... and the only finalized proof that he has is that he was stabbed through the chest.... which really isnt saying much since C.C.s first death looks like they ripped her fricken heart out(ok really it was just a gigantic slash... tho that could have happened as well.... also the fact that the scar didnt heal shows that she could be damaged just before becoming immortal, unlike how she was after coming back to life)

there is no solid evidence either way to support lelouch being dead or alive.... but personally i feel the topic swings towards living being far more likely... there is simply too much crap being showed that seems to have no other purpose than to point to his being alive.

Nov 16, 2013 2:46 PM

#73

VivicaTheof

Offline

Oct 2013

1

hey guys you must see this, more proof that Lelouch is alive, a scene that was cut even from the japanese version!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo

Nov 16, 2013 2:48 PM

#74

deg

Offline

Jan 2009

92285

VivicaTheof said:
hey guys you must see this, more proof that Lelouch is alive, a scene that was cut even from the japanese version!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo

thats fake

Nov 18, 2013 11:29 AM

#75

CaptainFapin

Offline

Nov 2013

6

Most people that watched code geass only watched the dubbed English version. In which case the ending is different from the original Japanese version. So i was thinking in your thread you should add this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo

This will help support your theory because ill be honest watching the original ending made believing 100% easier. Also people say that the owner (sunrise) confirmed he died. Counter argument (even if that isnt true) is that he says that so people can stop asking for another season (i wouldnt mind......) Anyways, I also think the real reason the anime ended this way is so we could decide how it ended. So if you want lelouch to be dead, that could have happened. If you want him to be alive, that could have happened.

CaptainFapinNov 18, 2013 11:37 AM

Nov 21, 2013 7:07 AM

#76

Fundog

Offline

Nov 2010

586

CaptainFapin said:
Most people that watched code geass only watched the dubbed English version. In which case the ending is different from the original Japanese version. So i was thinking in your thread you should add this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo

This will help support your theory because ill be honest watching the original ending made believing 100% easier. Also people say that the owner (sunrise) confirmed he died. Counter argument (even if that isnt true) is that he says that so people can stop asking for another season (i wouldnt mind......) Anyways, I also think the real reason the anime ended this way is so we could decide how it ended. So if you want lelouch to be dead, that could have happened. If you want him to be alive, that could have happened.

Exactly, the creators simply used the excuse that he's 'dead' to get rid of all the fans asking for a sequel to Lelouch's story. There is nothing more to be added to R2.

Yoshii Kiria took over as leader of Fairytale and rebuilt it and became one of Tsukunes formidable enemies but let's save that story for another time

Hehe, let me introduce him to you again, kid. This is Shuzen Issa (who is MIA during the final battle), who will become your 'trainer' starting today. You still have much to go if you want to become the headmaster.

Like the two souls have started to become one.

Nov 21, 2013 5:32 PM

#77

JizzyHitler

Offline

Sep 2011

33673

oh man seeing this thread revived again reminded me of Kamui-Yui, god damn that guy was annoying

also hes dead, get over it

Immahnoob said:
Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit,

tokiyashiro said:

Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me

Nov 24, 2013 4:55 AM

#78

enigma10

Offline

Nov 2013

4

Perfect ending !!yes it left you thinking , what the hell just happened ? Is he really alive ?
But that part of the charm that made this one of my favourite anime series .
It make you question thing about it and bring the anime community together to talk about it

If I learn anything from watching this series is that
1) word is power.
2) friend are important .
3)you have to make sacrifice for happiness .
4)good thing can come out of evil intentions and good thing from bad .

Even though I want lelouch to be alive a happy ending for a character who caused so much death and destruction doesn't deserve a happy ending . his good intention turn into something evil , then turn into something good . but if he really is immortal he should be given a chance of happiness and spend eternity with cc at least they can both give each other happiness

enigma10Nov 24, 2013 4:58 AM

Dec 3, 2013 1:56 PM

#79

Ooguro_Ryuuya

Offline

Jul 2013

459

@Forgetfullness : Dude, somehow you remind me of myself in the past. Writing a bunch of God-know-what lines all night long without even knows people read your fallacy or not.
And now I'm laughed my ass off reading all of the post here, debating whether Lelouch is alive or dead.

What I'm gonna say about all of this endless argument : It's doesn't matter whether he is dead from stabbed with sword by Syaoran Zerozaku or alive and gained immortality from the code.

Although the anime itself heavily indicated that he's dead (yes, for the guy far above who said that stabbed by sword = dead), there is no harm for people to thinks he's alive (True or Not).

Even when the creator officialy stated Lelouch is dead, I think it's not gonna end the fans war since The proclaimed-alive-faction had a assumption, "to gain the immortality he has to die first", which is justified in the state of argument. (And seeing the counter-arguments that has been stated, this debate could go centuries until C.C-only-knows-when)

And now some people goes with the infamous "The Lelouch-wannabe cart driver" video, which I don't know whether is it true or not. In my perspective of opinion, people who believe that Lelouch is dead are not necessary to going rage mode on, saying "Oh that's fake", "C.C just move her head like 10 px, get real", "It's edited, look at the hair!", "Dude, He's stabbed.In.The.Chest" and a lot more, even if this video is true from the originally Japanese version, the creator already cut it out, which means, they choose the ending where fans have freedom to guess the ending themselves.

I don't have the intention to justify Lelouch is dead, neither the intention to kill fans believe that Lelouch is alive. But if what Taniguchi-san (or another staff) meant with Lelouch is dead is like "Lelouch is dead and for God's sake, he is dead like dead.Lying cold.on the ground.Lifeless", then so be it. All self-proclaimed alive faction can entertain themselves in the Fanfiction. That's what fandom do, right ? (right?)

And for the love of Lelouch, I hate seeing and reading post from the awfully 1-post-only-avatarless users (All Hail Internet! All Hail Anonymity!) , except this one quote :

SacroSanct said:
Fans will be fans. The endless debate on Lelouch's real intent is quite fascinating. Plot inconsistencies aside, if we only talked about Lelouch.

,but I flattered that you guys trying to go through all the registration form to just post one comment. Salute!

By the way, "an OVA which explains everything" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqc8hv_Ibq4
Look minna-san? He isn't dead yet, in fact, Lelouch casting as Mad Hatter now.

Ooguro_RyuuyaDec 3, 2013 2:58 PM

Pusswookie said:
This,

cressidaaa said:
Levi and Eren should be bro's. I'm rooting for their friendship!

is truth.

Dec 4, 2013 8:00 AM

#80

olha2

Offline

Jan 2013

420

oke for all those saying: "the creater sayd hes dead" show fricking proof of that!!!! i've never ONCE seen prove of them having ever said that, so get some proof,
i mean atleast the people claiming Lelouch is alive come up with things to support there theory

Dec 15, 2013 2:16 AM

#81

Ooguro_Ryuuya

Offline

Jul 2013

459

checkmate

Pusswookie said:
This,

cressidaaa said:
Levi and Eren should be bro's. I'm rooting for their friendship!

is truth.

Poll: » Code Geass - Hangyaku no Lelouch Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 3 ) babykeiji - Feb 22, 2008	122	by shakinfuture2 »» Apr 11, 4:51 AM
» Code Geass is an omnipandering anime ( 1 2 ) Sanjay63773 - Feb 3	69	by AnimSr »» Mar 31, 4:09 AM
Poll: » Code Geass Hangyaku no Lelouch Episode 17 Discussion ( 1 2 3 ) Faust721 - Feb 18, 2007	142	by Ja_LYMPIK »» Mar 17, 3:39 AM
Poll: » Code Geass Hangyaku no Lelouch Episode 16 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 ) Crystal - Feb 7, 2007	175	by Ja_LYMPIK »» Mar 17, 2:24 AM
Poll: » Code Geass Hangyaku no Lelouch Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 ) Xinil - Feb 6, 2007	191	by yulek »» Mar 11, 3:07 PM

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