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Nooooo Utae-san! Dont give up!!! And Takuto you need to open your eyes D:< Utae is right there!!!! Also it made me lol when Fukune went to her concert and play the exact same thing she's been playing throughout the entire show x.x Please play something else!!! I'm still rooting for you Utae-san!!!! :D (even though I know its not going to happen x.x maybe they will do something and make OVAs for Takuto pairing with the different girls)

'Don't know about you guys, but I kinda prefer Fukune over Utae.



As for Raika, I kinda feel sorry for her, then again, who cares? She's a bitch anyway.

I don't follow your logic. Wait, forget that: preference in women is not dependent on logic in the slightest. What was I thinking?



Yes, she's a bitch, but she's an interesting bitch.

You gotta love the guy singing along in the OP and ED.

And when will guys learn to never make talk about a girl when your with another girl.
I mean, c'mon. Its like they're doing it on purpose.

Hey everyone CLAM YOUR BALLS! Just because takuto is leading utae on so much is not narukawa fualt there is no reason to hate her she is not as annoying at the idol. To many people focus on her i like narukawa because she average character, unlike utae. Takuto cant sweet talk narukawa to get that cliche moe smile going on. narukawa is a vial choice over the cliche utae which all of you adore so much.

I dont think its wrong to feel for her is quite sad but the rage against narukawa is unnecessary.

My comment man, not yours, don't like it? Then don't.
Bottom line, I don't give a f*****.

see ya

I think you fail to realize that average characters in anime's are straight up boring. I'm not really raging over his decision. As a matter of fact, it doesnt even look like he likes her, he just admires her. Even if he likes her, its actually really a stupid reason to because for one she doesnt even know he writes porn, while Utae accepts the fact that he does. She has never done anything at all to help him. While he was working at the festival what was she doing? Playing the Clarinet, while Utae, who is even in the opposing team goes in to help him. Now if you call that annoying...im not really sure what you would call true love.

I don't think I saw Narukawa-hate as much as Takuto-hate (for making a poor "decision" about to whom he ought to be attracted) and Utae-love (for being endearing).

The fact of the matter is that Narukawa has not actually done much of anything so far in R-15, and it is more-or-less impossible to establish a character well without actions (they speak louder than words, after all). Utae, on the other hand, actually does things. She has a character, even if it is a cliche one. The "idol" character archetype is overused, yes, but Utae is actually more interesting than most I've seen so far. Utae is lively, energetic, fun, and supportive. She's one of the few who acknowledges Takuto for what he is and respects and admires him for it. Narukawa, so far, has been more of a brick wall, or, rather, a piece of art on a pedestal, only participating in events insofar as she is physically present, only interacting with those around her insofar as they invest their thoughts in her. Only recently have we been treated to a glimpse of her inner life; before this, we had to make the assumption that Takuto was hopelessly in love with a physical body that goes through the motions of life solely because the animators at AIC desire it. Her "character" extended only as far as "she plays the clarinet" (but only one f***ing song, apparently) and "she seems shy" (although this is only minimally addressed; I prefer to think of it as a front for her inability to engage with her surroundings in any meaningful manner; i.e. she's not allowed to interact with anything because that would form the basis for her actually having character traits). I'm arguing that she's not so much "average" as she is uncharacterized and boring (although this might be "average" for anime, given the overwhelming predominance of shallow characters in the medium). Takuto might as well purchase a body pillow with her image and a recording of the one song she can play, considering that Narukawa herself won't respond much more than that.

Compared to Utae in this manner, Narukawa simply fails: not just as a likable character, but as a character at all. Watching Takuto pursue her to the exclusion of Utae is painful, because he is figuratively shunning a real person for a lifeless doll.

And I don't think anyone has any reason to hate a lifeless doll. After all, nothing that happens is the doll's fault.

BTW @ all Narukara has not shown yet all she has considering the show is not over so she may redeem herself at the end but I would have accepted Utae and fuck both her with Narukara for an amazing experience put into an ero novel. Right?You are wrong on that one, it was more her family and father who is the cause, which is also overused as in one from Working!! who has that problem with her father.ROFL! The first BDs limited edition do come with a Narukara dakimakura so Takuro would like that for sure.

Yes, it certainly seems possible that we might soon be shown how Narukawa thinks and why she acts the way she does. You're right, that it probably will have something to do with her father's attitude toward her and, perhaps, his pressure for her to be "chosen" by the music. If we get a decent explanation/demonstration of her character motivations and personality, then my claim that she has no character will, in the end, be false, just as you say.

Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that it took almost nine whole episodes to get our very first glimpse. Waiting that long to establish a central character is really pushing it, in terms of story structure. Unless something masterful is done (a la episode 10 of Puella Magi Madoka★Magica), then I'd be tempted to say that characterizing her was more of an afterthought by the creators than something operating quietly in the background the whole time. In that sense, she may not lack character, but she will have been poorly written and/or poorly presented.

Wow.

Utae is far better than Narukara so I agree...
This episode passed quite fast...:(

Genius digger, genius hot spring manager ,lol...
I'll apply to Hirameki Gakuin as genius anime watcher xD
Also lol'ed at "10 hour straight cabbage cutting" xD

WE got some nice Utae moments, but sad to see, how she was "rejected" at the bath scene. Taketo no Baka...
Throughout the ep we got jealous stares from Raika. (BTW, don't badmouth her!! ;-) ) I hope she'll be given more screen time next ep, but I'm afraid that's not gonna happen, 'cause the last eps will probably just Fukune, Fukune, Fukune... :-(
I don't hate Fukune, but Utae was definitely more likeable, especially after the last ep.
This series got a really good romance part, despite being ecchi. Hope they make a good ending to this.

He should pick Utae, tough he wil end up whit either Narakura or noone (Read all as friends)

BTW Noone mentioned that the ones dioing the censoring missed this little one?


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Not a biggy but since they do overkill whit censor bars i was suprised.

So what if he likes Fukune more then Utae, its his choice who he likes. What just because a girl had the most character development means she should end up with Taketo? Lol most people here probably likes Utae because of all the episodes were shown to make people pity her. I mean out of all the characters Utae probably had the most screentime, even more then Fukune even though she was suppose to be like the main female lead. People should stop hating a guy for liking who he wants to like.

on another note Raika seems to be like the only person that knows Utae likes Taketo.

It's not really even a choice.

Yes, actually. The main character is the focal point for our interest and investment in a given work; it isn't good narrative form to just throw the main protagonist away to a character who seems to lack personality. In other words, whichever girl will win should have had her character developed at least as deeply as any other girl. Otherwise, the storyteller is just slapping the audience in the face.

Well, those episodes were not necessarily there to make us pity her. From a descriptive standpoint, they only gave us more time to see what kind of person she is. If we pity her, it's because we believe she has been wronged, and we can only think that if we think she deserved otherwise. The only way we'll make this assessment is if we care about her, and it's hard to care about someone whose character has been poorly developed or not developed at all.

But Fukune is just so boring! Wait, if they had given her more screen-time, maybe they could have fixed that...

It's not so much hatred as it is us silently shaking our heads in a mixture of bewilderment and disgrace and then getting angry at Taketo for the pain he is inevitably going to cause the girl who probably ought to win the harem war, all for the sake of a girl who, to us, looks more like a block of wood than a human being, given all the character development she's gotten (like, none).

You know, to unilaterally impose my personal reaction upon everyone else in this forum.

The thing that got me the most in this episode was Utae at the end all alone in the Karaoke bar listening to that song. God I felt depressed and related to her.

I would like to presumptiously analyze ZetaAspect and greenmush's points.




Well, let's get some more insight, using that greenmush's logic, so what if Utae likes Takuto. It's her choice who she likes as well.

What has been discussed by Zeta Aspect are the pro's and con's of a person liking another person. And this has nothing to do with being able to "freely" like anyone one. Simply saying X likes Y because X has a choice doesn't much add to your argument. I hope you can see that.




Here, I agree with greenmush's point, on practical terms. ZetaAspect's point of "yes those with the most character development should end up with the main character" is an overgeneralization.

Because, although it is reasonable to assume that characters with more character development SHOULD be a focal of any story (why on earth you would develop side characters over main character's is beyond my artistic comprehension), there are times when sub-character's plots just get advanced for no romantic reason.

The point I would like to make is that just because a character gets flushed out doesn't have any bearings on the romantic interests of any main characters.

However, I do strongly agree with the ZetaAspects opinions that "it isn't good narrative to throw a protagonist away" from an flushed out character versus an "un-flushed" out character. I suspect that indeed the storyteller, in this case AIC, is indeed slapping us in the face (if the Takuto x Fukune pairing is set in stone <--dear god, please no.)




Agreement with ZetaAspect's argument here on many grounds. Firstly, the assumptions that everyone pities Utae because of the episodes is an ungrounded statement. Which episodes (or do you mean "all the episdoes" as in every single episode) are you referring to AND which people watching this show have stated that they "pity" or feel bad for Utae as a result of said episodes?

Moreover, just because we may pity Utae doesn't mean that we like Utae. Do you pity the homeless? Does that mean you like all of them?

Rather, as ZetaApsect has pointed out, those who may pity her is because infact she invested so much time and emotions into Takuto only to bear little fruit or nothing at all, and it is hard to feel empathy for someone else who's story has NOT been flushed out OR has NOT driven the plot AT ALL, aside from episode 1 and 4 (where Fukune was stuck to Takuto).




As by definition, this is a harem show, each girl probably has gotten their own fair share of screen time (depending on possible popularity, most likely). Aside from Fukune's screentime in the beginning episodes, particularly, 1,3, and 8, she was relegated to a smaller role in all the others. Fukune was supposed to be the main lead but this is an ecchi harem series! Meaning that takes importance over any romance. Utae really had more romantic events with all throughout all the series (that she took the initiative on). Like in episode 6 when she brought the bento for Takuto. That seems more appropriate for a female romantic lead, don't you think?

Nonetheless, it I have a feeling that they gave Utae the most screen time because she was the MOST interesting character. This is just my assumption, which may be reasonable on grounds that, the director of the anime series didn't read the light novel far enough to distinguish Utae's prominence in the original work to depict her as a main lead OR that AIC decided last minute to add more Utae time because they just couldn't find any more substance with Fukune. To simply toss Utae aside after all those advances, is just disappointing, considering how much the viewer saw of her attempts.

Regardless, the omission of Fukune as a major plot point till now is pretty bad directing for a harem series that can't decide whether or not it wants to be a RomCom or an ecchi series with no resolution.




This is similar to your very first point of "they love who they wanna love." And shares a similar logical flaw. People can feel emotions, such as love and hate, for many reasons and sometimes for no reasons at all. (*cough* I can say that I seem to hate Fukune for no reason! [just kidding] The main flaw is that you say everyone should not hate X (Takuto) for liking Y (Fukune) with no compelling arguement.

Fair enough you can argue that all is "fair in love and war." so there's no need to give a reason to love. Yet, we should remind ourselves that these characters were created for a purpose.

In that case, why bother to root for any characters and objectively watch anime like robots instead? Rather, we have an emotional reponse and feel strong enough to reason with ourselves and others why a character like Takuto should end up with Utae.

I must digress and say that we don't HATE X (Takuto) or Y (Fukune), rather we have merely been giving reasons why X should be with Z. Like I said before, instead of just dimissing our reasons, it would be better if you could give your reasons why X should be with Y, err, why Takuto should be with Fukune.

Furthermore, based on the reponses of Zeta Aspect and Explicitz, their reaction to Takuto's obliviousness to Utae's love is far from just an emotional response. They have given actually a lot of legitimate examples, such as Utae going to help Takuto's side during the festival, to substantiate their view that Taketko's focus of love deserves to be Utae, and not Fukune.



Don't worry ZetaAspect, your reaction is well reasoned and I support Takuto X Utae all the way! I just made this response to help keep our logic on top our game to prevent any flaws as what may weaken our inititial emotional response to why Utae was not chosen. (= Keep up the good fight!

Be my guest! :D Critical thought is always welcome.

Following that logic further, we should not feel any pity or sympathy for Utae, because it's entirely her fault for choosing to like Taketo despite him being unattainable. (This seems wrong to me.)

This wasn't directed at me, was it? Because if it was, then one of us isn't understanding the other correctly.

I actually agree with you and greenmush to a certain extent; it is true that characterization is not intrinsically linked with the plot. In that sense, you're right; it doesn't matter who gets well-characterized. There's a difference between being the character whom the main character likes and being the character whom the audience knows most deeply. I also fully understand that side characters can receive plenty of non-romantic development or can have their personal plot threads furthered without any consequences for romantic (sub)plots. (However, Utae's developments are pretty clearly romance-relevant, so I'm not sure your argument applies here).

That said, the story and characters are crafted with a purpose (as you later acknowledge), and various narrative conventions are applicable. In that case, the main character ending up with someone who has received relatively little character development is something that should never be allowed to happen.

Also, of note, you've inverted my statement. I did not mean that the most-developed character should end up with the main character; I meant that the character who is intended by the creator(s) to end up with the main character should be developed rather well relative to (at least) the majority of cast (partially as a necessity to make the final result maximally palatable and satisfying). Your interpretation can be inferred from my original statement, but I don't think it is a necessary consequence. It subtly alters the causal structure of the scenario my statement discusses.

I know, right?

This makes me grin.

I think a few people have mentioned feeling bad/sad for Utae, or that it is not wrong the feel that way, on the basis of at least episode 10. Rayyy, HawthorneKitty, DarthVantos, and maybe mrmuk have expressed something along those lines.

Well said.

Interesting comment, considering how Taketo more-or-less refuses to look at Fukune in a sexual light (or to reveal a part of his sexuality to her by admitting to writing porn), whereas he is fine thinking of Utae sexually and admits to her to being a porno author. From this, you could then posit that Fukune's lack of screen-time is a direct result of the mismatch between how erotic/sexual she is (and is viewed by Taketo as being) and the priorities of the show (i.e. titillation first, everything else second). To rephrase it again, Fukune is not a fanservice girl, and she's (nominally) the lead in a show that's all about exploiting its female cast for fanservice. The result seems obvious.

It's really tough to say what kind of characters Utae and Fukune were in the source material. Furthermore, sometimes characters doomed by merit of being a member of the supporting cast can become rather, uh, undoomed. I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible to draw comparisons to Hayate no Gotoku! and Hinagiku Katsura (a supporting character who was promoted to a front-runner in the love polygon, if I recall correctly).

Well said, again.

I'm not so sure you're digressing; I think it's a rather critical component to the argument. Although I interpreted them differently, there were quite a few posts expressing aggravation with those characters. Considering how determining the real emotions underlying an internet comment is basically a crap-shoot, I can see how this could be interpreted as hatred. I just personally don't think that's the right interpretation.

Agreed; that would be nice. However, I don't think greenmush was necessarily arguing that Taketo should end up with Fukune, just that people have no right to be angry at him if it does turn out that way. I actually agree with that; I think if it ends up that way (without Fukune getting some serious character development), we should be angry with AIC or with the original authors, not with Taketo. It's not his fault that the creators led us care about Utae when she was doomed to tragic failure from the get-go, nor is it his fault the the creators have not developed Fukune enough to make her seem worthy of his affection (in the eyes of us, the viewers).

All the credit for examples goes to Explicitz, since I didn't actually use any in my arguments. :D

You too.

I think I agree with this evaluation for the most part, if I understand it correctly. :P

You've seen more anime than I have, so I suppose you have the more reliable sample size, but my experience is that poorly developed characters whose primary attribute is that of normality are far too common. The ones I typically enjoy watching are the ones that break that mold, with the exception of when everyone else in the cast is weird and/or insane, in which case a normal character acts as a foil for the madness, like Kyon or, to a somewhat lesser extent, Tsuda from Seitokai Yakuindomo.

However, I'm not sure that "normality" is what you're getting at, since you bring up Nagato Yuki from The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya:
She's not so much "average" as she is "unassuming" or "reserved." I think the main difference here can be reduced to the fact that she's a well-written character who is interesting in her own right, perhaps in part because of the kind of show she's in. R-15 is not the same kind of show, nor is it as well-written: the writers are having a hard-enough time developing characters who are very active and outgoing. The result is that Fukune lacks the air of mystery that surrounds Yuki, as well as the sense of deliberate calmness, reservedness, and detachment. Fukune seems shallow, non-existent, and personality-less, unlike Yuki, whose lack of interaction is portrayed well-enough to attribute it to her character, not to mention the many other subtleties in her personality.

Also, Haruhi herself is both a Mary Sue and a total bitch. That doesn't win her any points. Utae is very, very far from the latter, and I don't know how close she is to the former, since it's not really addressed how far past singing her talents extend.

Anyways, my counterargument is really only tailored to your specific example, but I suspect that I could give similar arguments for other examples.

I think I just don't agree with your assessment of Narukawa as being on the same level as Nagato Yuki, nor with your comparison of Utae to Haruhi. If Fukune were characterized that well, then maybe she'd be favored more than the "flashy" Utae. However, note that Utae isn't even the most outrageous character in R-15 by a long shot. Everyone in R-15 is flashy to some extent; they're all prodigies in particular fields, and the show is not exactly subtle about reminding us of that fact. Also note that being outgoing and active is not the same as being flashy.

I do agree, though, that reserved characters can be just as good, if not better, than more outgoing ones. It's just tougher to characterize them. Imagine how terrible Shiomiya Shiori (from The World God Only Knows) would have been if she had had half the screen time and no internal monologue. That's Narukawa, except with clarinets instead of books. Sorta.