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| Suzuha was badass in the beginning of the episode. Ahhh, I laughed when Mayuri was hit by the car. LIVE MAYURI LIIIIIVE! |
CrossDivide said: Okabe x Kurisu agreed those two are much better the Obabe x Mayuri. a thought if Kurisu died before his first jump doesn't that make Kurisu death fate as well. so Kurisu and Mayuri deaths at this point are fate. Okabe is going to have to jump further back in order to save everyone and prevent fate. |
| I was thinking about this after I rewatched this episode.... Why are they so keen on killing off Mayuri? They say she's not "needed" but what about the other lab members, Ruka & Rumiho? They know about the time machine aswell, or will they be killed off later too? |
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RealScreamer said: I was thinking about this after I rewatched this episode.... Why are they so keen on killing off Mayuri? They say she's not "needed" but what about the other lab members, Ruka & Rumiho? They know about the time machine aswell, or will they be killed off later too? You can assume that they will be wanted and killed if captured. They weren't in the lab at the time it happened so you wouldn't know for sure. EvilSniperTom said: All aboard the crazy train! Fuahahahaha! But in all seriousness, with the whole Time Leap and D-Mail discussion I've seen I've come to my own understanding of the situation. We all think D-Mail changes the world line. It sends a text back which changes a persons mind about something causing the world line to split off into a new one because it is a new line in which they have decided to go with that option. I would say the Time Leap is pretty much the same apart from it is sending a persons consciousness back. Their memories are transferred back down the SAME World Line and then the moment they do something different from the original World line they were on it causes the World line to split off, like the D-Mail. I think this anime is all about getting back to the original World line. (Which if you did read properly, is possible without a paradox) If you also analyse what has gone on so far you can pretty much predict what's going on and what has happened. From what I can tell, the FIRST D-Mail is what caught SERN's attention. In the first episode we see a satellite land on the building, with what looks like Suzuha in front of it. Then Okarin finds Kurisu dead and then sends the D-Mail, which changes when John Titor arrive and also how the Satellite landed. Which they could of guessed something happened from a similar thing happening as their experiment or the massive Satellite randomly crashing into a building out of nowhere without destroying anything else in the process. So I think they'll have to stop Okabe sending the original D-Mail, although this would end up causing Kurisu to die and Mayuri to live. Which still causes problems. I also think he does try to save Kurisu either through D-Mail or some other method, possibly Suzuha? because you also have the bit in episode one where she talks to him, saying that he was desperately talking to her 15 minutes before but he doesn't remember this. Also when Okabe hears a scream in episode 1 it sounds exactly like himself, so maybe he did try to come back but failed and saw her death? I also don't see how the D-Mail made John Titor come at a different time, so it suggests that he had to go back to 2000 after the events of these episodes so that it gives Okabe all the thoughts on John Titor in the first episode. I haven't played the VN sadly and I'm not sure if there's manga, I assume so. So this is all speculation on my part. There's a lot more plot points and thinking outside the box I can think of and such but it's too long to write down. I've also been analysing the episodes weekly using NOTEPAD FUHAHAHAHA! Bravo. Your thought process is going in the right direction. |
RezurrektJun 29, 2011 7:07 AM
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DesolateOne said: Fai said: DenjaX said: D-mail:"Don't hack SERN" Problem solved and they will live happily ever after. ...but then again that would kill the epicness XDD Everyone likes to see Okarin desperate and fail miserably... Jacut said: Someone needs to use the D-Mail in order to save Mayushii (on the down side, that could make the Shinkansen black - I'm joking but the scene with the mother and her child is clearly here as a future indicator of whether or not the time lines have been changed or not -). GarLogan78 said: So it seems like a time leap can't change the future, just how it happens. Only a D-Mail can shift the world lines. Like others have suggested, a D-Mail might be a better way to try and save Mayuri. Or just tell her to spend the night at her cosplay friend's house. *facepalm* ITS THE SAME DAMN THING, JUST IN ONE CASE YOU SEND INFORMATION TO AFFECT RECEIVERS AND IN OTHER CASE YOU SEND A COPY OF YOURSELF TO DO THE SAME DAMN THING. YOu CAN'T travel to actual past of your wordline due to causality paradox. People can be so dense sometimes. Sorry if I sound ignorant but I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I just want to say that there is a difference between d-mails and time leaping. Sending D-mails changes the world line which can be thought of another world branching off from the world you sent it in. This would lead to very noticeable outcomes. In contrast, time leaping is like a rewind in the same world line, meaning things that is supposed to occur in this world, WILL occur regardless of what you (actually it would be Okarin) try to do to stop it. The only thing you can really do is delay it or change how you arrived at the situation. With d-mails, you can definitely change what you couldn't by time leaping. I've played the VN so I would know. Disregard this post if this is what you meant or if it is irrelevant to what you are saying. ANd now i am going to call bullshit on this one. Discussed this with at least three to four people who played VN, they all seem to agree with the fact that LEAP IS IDENTICAL TO DMAIL, IT STILL CHANGES TIMELINE INTO ALTERNATE ONE. NOWHERE in the VN does it state that it changes the existing worldline. The only thing that differs is what is being sent. |
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| Ohh my GAWD!!! this is so Higurashi i feel bad for Okarin having to come back and failing to save Mayuri so many times...if he still keeps his sanity like Rika maybe after 1145+ attemps he might get it.. Well Nae did surprise her in a not so good way.. |
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| she has already died 3 times, poor Mayuri. i bet Okabe is going to go crazy, i want him to save her, will next episode be another 2 more of her deaths or will some ting different happen? i'm looking forward to it ether way but dang this is such a good anime! badbluesplayer said: Ohh my GAWD!!! this is so Higurashi i feel bad for Okarin having to come back and failing to save Mayuri so many times...if he still keeps his sanity like Rika maybe after 1145+ attemps he might get it.. ^this |
Cooperation-sanJun 29, 2011 7:29 AM
| It won't center on saving Mayushii countless times now, will it? |
| レッツゴー ED イケイケゴーゴー |
Fai said: DesolateOne said: Fai said: DenjaX said: D-mail:"Don't hack SERN" Problem solved and they will live happily ever after. ...but then again that would kill the epicness XDD Everyone likes to see Okarin desperate and fail miserably... Jacut said: Someone needs to use the D-Mail in order to save Mayushii (on the down side, that could make the Shinkansen black - I'm joking but the scene with the mother and her child is clearly here as a future indicator of whether or not the time lines have been changed or not -). GarLogan78 said: So it seems like a time leap can't change the future, just how it happens. Only a D-Mail can shift the world lines. Like others have suggested, a D-Mail might be a better way to try and save Mayuri. Or just tell her to spend the night at her cosplay friend's house. *facepalm* ITS THE SAME DAMN THING, JUST IN ONE CASE YOU SEND INFORMATION TO AFFECT RECEIVERS AND IN OTHER CASE YOU SEND A COPY OF YOURSELF TO DO THE SAME DAMN THING. YOu CAN'T travel to actual past of your wordline due to causality paradox. People can be so dense sometimes. Sorry if I sound ignorant but I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I just want to say that there is a difference between d-mails and time leaping. Sending D-mails changes the world line which can be thought of another world branching off from the world you sent it in. This would lead to very noticeable outcomes. In contrast, time leaping is like a rewind in the same world line, meaning things that is supposed to occur in this world, WILL occur regardless of what you (actually it would be Okarin) try to do to stop it. The only thing you can really do is delay it or change how you arrived at the situation. With d-mails, you can definitely change what you couldn't by time leaping. I've played the VN so I would know. Disregard this post if this is what you meant or if it is irrelevant to what you are saying. ANd now i am going to call bullshit on this one. Discussed this with at least three to four people who played VN, they all seem to agree with the fact that LEAP IS IDENTICAL TO DMAIL, IT STILL CHANGES TIMELINE INTO ALTERNATE ONE. NOWHERE in the VN does it state that it changes the existing worldline. The only thing that differs is what is being sent. First of all, calm down and don't disrespect other people's opinions. Second, the reason for this whole D-mail and time leap is different is because of the difference of what happened to Kurisu and Mayuri who shared the same fate. Kurisu was originally killed, but saved when Okarin sent a D-mail to the past. Unlike Mayuri, she didn't face death again in another fashion, but stayed alive for a much longer period of time. But Mayuri was never saved. Instead, death found it's target one way or another. And since Okarin used the time leap, and not the D-mail, people assume that it works differently. This is just a way for fans who haven't played the VN to believe that Mayuri can be saved. |
Fai said: ANd now i am going to call bullshit on this one. Discussed this with at least three to four people who played VN, they all seem to agree with the fact that LEAP IS IDENTICAL TO DMAIL, IT STILL CHANGES TIMELINE INTO ALTERNATE ONE. NOWHERE in the VN does it state that it changes the existing worldline. The only thing that differs is what is being sent. Indeed the timeline changes. But it's so minor dat u can't tell a difference on the Divergence Meter. So why Okabe couldn't save Mayushii from her fatal death? Sum certain char will explain it in a few episodes, and dat's when the 1% fantasy thing is accounted for. |
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Few things I have noticed,
Some questions that would be nice to have answered,
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| this ep reminds me of higurashi no naku koro ni kai |
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| i am Yumekichi11 said: Few things I have noticed,
Some questions that would be nice to have answered,
i am always amazed by your observations..really helpful ^^ |
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adrenalinefriend said: CrossDivide said: Okabe x Kurisu agreed those two are much better the Obabe x Mayuri. a thought if Kurisu died before his first jump doesn't that make Kurisu death fate as well. so Kurisu and Mayuri deaths at this point are fate. Okabe is going to have to jump further back in order to save everyone and prevent fate. Kurisu getting shot before Okabe's first leap wasn't a fatal shot, it was on her shoulder. If it was really in her neck, she wouldn't even have the power to even yelp. |
 Visit this blog That I'm working with my friend http://randomnessthing.com/ |
Fai said: ANd now i am going to call bullshit on this one. Discussed this with at least three to four people who played VN, they all seem to agree with the fact that LEAP IS IDENTICAL TO DMAIL, IT STILL CHANGES TIMELINE INTO ALTERNATE ONE. You misunderstood me. Obviously it does change the timeline and proof of that was in this episode where Mayuri died multiple times in different ways. However, the fact still remains that Mayuri died, and its something their time leap machine cannot correct. Fai said: NOWHERE in the VN does it state that it changes the existing worldline. The only thing that differs is what is being sent. It's implied because of the reason above. Afterall, you are just sending memories to yourself in the past. Okabe even says it himself that he did not feel the Reading Steiner activate. The buildings and everything from the last D-mail was there. He merely went back in time. Sure, the events that unfold afterwards will perhaps change the future, but he just altered the wordline he was in. He didn't create a parellel wordline. Things that will happen will be limited to this world, not branch out into another one. Regarding the paradox issue of meeting yourself differs here (you can say its because its not truly a time machine) but later on in this show, the paradox will come up and there will be a simple way to circumvent this. |
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| Shit!! It's not just SERN. From the last scene it seems the universe is after Mayuri and wants to kill her no matter what. The universe can be one big pain in the ass opponent. The question is why is the universe so keen on killing her? Why is her existence not acceptable? I don't think is just a matter of death following people trying to cheat him because otherwise Kirisu should be dieing too since she also got shot before Okabe times leaped. It seems like a specific matter with Mayuri. Btw last death was most cruel because not only she died but it also destroyed the life of the little girl that will feel terrible forever. Thankfully Okabe won't give-up. At least if he can't save her she might as well die from those Sern guys that don't give a shit instead of getting killed by an accident from a person that loves her and will feel horrible. |
SagaraYuzuru said: First of all, calm down and don't disrespect other people's opinions. Second, the reason for this whole D-mail and time leap is different is because of the difference of what happened to Kurisu and Mayuri who shared the same fate. Kurisu was originally killed, but saved when Okarin sent a D-mail to the past. Unlike Mayuri, she didn't face death again in another fashion, but stayed alive for a much longer period of time. But Mayuri was never saved. Instead, death found it's target one way or another. And since Okarin used the time leap, and not the D-mail, people assume that it works differently. This is just a way for fans who haven't played the VN to believe that Mayuri can be saved. \If that was speculation then oh well, I could let it pass, but the person in question CLAIMED that he/she has read the VN and that it works the same there, which is nonsense. DesolateOne said: Fai said: ANd now i am going to call bullshit on this one. Discussed this with at least three to four people who played VN, they all seem to agree with the fact that LEAP IS IDENTICAL TO DMAIL, IT STILL CHANGES TIMELINE INTO ALTERNATE ONE. You misunderstood me. Obviously it does change the timeline and proof of that was in this episode where Mayuri died multiple times in different ways. However, the fact still remains that Mayuri died, and its something their time leap machine cannot correct. However it still creates a new timeline separate from previous one, hence the mechanics are pretty much the same. You CAN'T enter the past point of the same timeline you are. DesolateOne said: Fai said: NOWHERE in the VN does it state that it changes the existing worldline. The only thing that differs is what is being sent. It's implied because of the reason above. Afterall, you are just sending memories to yourself in the past. Okabe even says it himself that he did not feel the Reading Steiner activate. The buildings and everything from the last D-mail was there. He merely went back in time. Sure, the events that unfold afterwards will perhaps change the future, but he just altered the wordline he was in. He didn't create a parellel wordline. Things that will happen will be limited to this world, not branch out into another one. Regarding the paradox issue of meeting yourself differs here (you can say its because its not truly a time machine) but later on in this show, the paradox will come up and there will be a simple way to circumvent this. ANd in DMAIL you are just sending text into the past. Its the same thing - data transmission into the past-point of alternate timeline. yes he "went back in time", in time of an alternate timeline. If the same timeline resets - that means that he never left to the past, thus the timeline had no reason to reset. If he is just sent in fixed timeline into his previous body, then that alone would mean that at that certain time he left to the past he would NOT thus he could not be in the past, hence causality paradox. Its NOT about "meeting yourself". The stuf in this episode shows Okarin transfering data into past-okarin of alternate timeline. His powers seem to "activate" when timeline moves. This time its not timeline moving into place below him, its his memories moving into different alternate timeline. And you see thats where the bullshit is. YOU CAN'T change the same worldline you traveled from. The very act of him SENDING those memories creates a new wordline. Otherwise, causality paradox. Let me explain it simply: I travel to the past and kill my past self. Past self as result does not travel into the past. Then how could I travel into the past? If i did not travel into the past, I could not have killed my past self. If I did not kill my past self, my past self travels into the past cue paradox. |
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| The way she was killed by Nae was stupid, pathetic and sad .I feel bad for Okabe. |
| soooo yea okabe is going to go full on BUTTERFLY EFFECT and make is so that he tells mayuri never to talk to him again so they can all live happily ever after. i bet he ends up with kurisu tho. i lovvvee kana hanazawa but kurisus character was definitely better. GO RED HAIR |
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| It so hard to change when someone is meant to be dead hmm |
| lightness vs. darkness Nani mo kamo wo hoshigatteita Mayoeru mono no chikai Mada miru sekai o tsukuridasu koto Kuchi hateteiku |
DesolateOne said: They're merely exploring the popular rationalizations of the grandfather paradox with time travel.Fai said: NOWHERE in the VN does it state that it changes the existing worldline. The only thing that differs is what is being sent. It's implied because of the reason above. Afterall, you are just sending memories to yourself in the past. Okabe even says it himself that he did not feel the Reading Steiner activate. The buildings and everything from the last D-mail was there. He merely went back in time. Sure, the events that unfold afterwards will perhaps change the future, but he just altered the wordline he was in. He didn't create a parellel wordline. Things that will happen will be limited to this world, not branch out into another one. Regarding the paradox issue of meeting yourself differs here (you can say its because its not truly a time machine) but later on in this show, the paradox will come up and there will be a simple way to circumvent this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox#Scientific_theories The only original thing here is that parallel universes and self-consistent universes can coexist, where you d-mail to move world lines or time leap back on the same consistent world line. They are not contradictory if different time travel methods are used, so it makes sense to me. |
 I am a banana. |
Yumekichi11 said: Few things I have noticed,
Some questions that would be nice to have answered,
i think it was one of okabe experiments , i think we saw it before , i might be wrong. |
| my favourite episode so far, feel so bad for okabe and mayuri edit: just found out what i mentioned was already in a topic below :p |
WildslevenJun 29, 2011 1:57 PM
cr4sian_phil said: I don't think my heart can handle Mayuri dying again. Same. I hated it. Dx I watched this episode as soon as I got up today, and I have been thinking about it every sense. (ALL DAY LONG.) I can't get it outta my head. I'm about to go watch it again, but I don't like seeing Mayuri die. T.T , I hope Okarain can save her. Its so sad. I don't know if I have ever wanted next week to get here so fast. |
"Wait for the signal, and I'll meet you after dark" |
| I j-just w-w-w-watched Steins; Gate episodes 12 & 13 this i-is s-s-so epic' I want the next episode, I need the next episode Edit: s-she I-I-I can't get myself to even write the horrible events of that episode T_T Forgive me |
Procabiak said: Who's ready for Endless;Gate? MAL needs a damn Like button. |
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Fai said: Let me explain it simply: I travel to the past and kill my past self. Past self as result does not travel into the past. Then how could I travel into the past? If i did not travel into the past, I could not have killed my past self. If I did not kill my past self, my past self travels into the past cue paradox. That IS a paradox, but how about this? Instead of me actually killing myself, let us say I maimed myself (let's say I end up in a coma) and thus could not send memories into the past. I sent memories into the past and maimed myself. As a result, past self did not send memories into the past. What happens? I'm simply maimed after having received my memories and now must live my life as such. I do not need my past self to send memories of myself to the past, as I have already done so once. No one but myself knows that I know what happens in the future. What I'm trying to say is that it appears to have happened sequentially and not simultaneously. I received, and then I acted, and therefore I got the result. Not I received and acted and got the result at the same time, therefore did not send, thus not acted, and thus never got the result, (continues endlessly like your paradox). It's like hitting backspace on a word. ie. "money". You send memories of to your past self and end up erasing it so it just spells "mone". There never was a physical time where you typed "money". You just remember being as such. The time in between was erased and begins at the time you received your memories. Having said all that - truthfully, it's not said in the VN whether the time-leap causes a shift into an alternate world line or if it stays in the same one. My opinions are based on how I interpreted what happened in the game and the cause behind it. To me, it points to a single world line. Yes - what happens after the D-mail and time-leap does change the world, but you say it branches off into an alternate worldline while I say it stays in the same one. Maybe if you continue watching the series until the end, your opinions may differ (or stay the same). |
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| I gave up trying to argue with Fai 6 pages ago. They seem set on the idea that the rules of Steins;Gate universe correspond with the the theories of our own instead of looking at it the way it really is in the story. If you don't make a dent in their logic this time around there's probably no hope. |
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DesolateOne said: You can assume that they will be wanted and killed if captured. They weren't in the lab at the time it happened so you wouldn't know for sure. Yeah. I just thought it seemed weird for them to only focus on Mayurii & not give a hint about the other two members that Okarin would probably want to save too, if he knew... harimasora said: I just noticed Kiryuu Moeka and Amane Suzuha look like each other so much. http://imageshack.us/f/52/amanesuzuhakiryuumoeka.jpg/ Could they be the same person? Humm, I think someone would turn into jellyman if teleported to the past... but they are so very muck like each other!! Lol, if they were the same person - why would she try to kill "herself". |
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| i can't take it Mayushii is just too Kawaii to die.and she doesn't deserve it! |
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| As the subway headlights slowly started to appear, I was saying to myself "No, no, no, no, no..." After the car crash, it clicked to me the Mayurii can't escape death. I really wanna see how long Okarin will keep this up until he realizes that he can't save Mayruii. Perhaps he already knows and just doesn't wanna give up. |
| "You watch too much." "I don't watch enough."  |
RealScreamer said: Also it would be impossible for all Suzuha may have to do is to touch Moeka and both are gone. They are therefore not the same person.harimasora said: Lol, if they were the same person - why would she try to kill "herself".I just noticed Kiryuu Moeka and Amane Suzuha look like each other so much.http://imageshack.us/f/52/amanesuzuhakiryuumoeka.jpg/ Could they be the same person? Humm, I think someone would turn into jellyman if teleported to the past... but they are so very muck like each other!! |
| This episode was good but there's one thing that I tough was really retarded. When Mayuri died for a second time I cannot start to understand how the fuck did Okabe managed to pass megane and her evil army of soldier that were armed, god she even had a car (nice hit on mayuri between) to get to his lab and to do a second time loop. I wouldn't get surprised if the scene was much more detailled in the VN but in the anime it was really retarded and I mean really. |
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| God says it her time.....and there is no cheating death....no matter what you do she will die..one way or the other! |
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| this is realy heating up although i dont think i can take it anymore if mayuri dies again but with repitition comes a solution |
 I signed my screen and now its all smeary "When you meet your God tell him to leave me alone." check out my bloghttp://corpse69.wordpress.com/ fix MAL already |
| Wow, this show has gotten amazing all of a sudden. It's going to suck waiting for the next episode. |
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Hypno-girl said: This episode was good but there's one thing that I tough was really retarded. When Mayuri died for a second time I cannot start to understand how the fuck did Okabe managed to pass megane and her evil army of soldier that were armed, god she even had a car (nice hit on mayuri between) to get to his lab and to do a second time loop. I wouldn't get surprised if the scene was much more detailled in the VN but in the anime it was really retarded and I mean really. Yeeaahh I got confused at that part. How did he manage to outrun a car and a bunch of agents to get to the lab? When Mayuri died at the subway, I was fully expecting the doors to open and Meoka to be standing there. That would've been some pretty lolz shit. |
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Hypno-girl said: This episode was good but there's one thing that I tough was really retarded. When Mayuri died for a second time I cannot start to understand how the fuck did Okabe managed to pass megane and her evil army of soldier that were armed, god she even had a car (nice hit on mayuri between) to get to his lab and to do a second time loop. I wouldn't get surprised if the scene was much more detailled in the VN but in the anime it was really retarded and I mean really. In the VN both Okabe n Mayuri got hitted by the car, and Okabe still had the strength to knock out Moeka, then dashed all the way back to the lab. Haha. =( And they too skiped 2 death scenes b4 Mayuri got run over by the train, I dun know if they will put them back in the following episodes so ill use a spoiler tag. SPOILER AHEAD |
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Yumekichi11 said: Also it would be impossible for all Suzuha may have to do is to touch Moeka and both are gone. They are therefore not the same person. Again people are assuming pre-defined time travel "logic" without understanding how it works in this story. Exactly what proof do you have that a future version of ones self touching a current version of ones self would result in such cataclysmic events? This has been mentioned in a couple sci-fi movies and books over the course of history, but never backed by any evidence theoretical or otherwise. Stop regurgitating this garbage without a second thought and evaluate the possibilities yourself... That said I don't think they are the same person, but your thought process is crap. |
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hikaricore said: Yumekichi11 said: Also it would be impossible for all Suzuha may have to do is to touch Moeka and both are gone. They are therefore not the same person. Again people are assuming pre-defined time travel "logic" without understanding how it works in this story. Exactly what proof do you have that a future version of ones self touching a current version of ones self would result in such cataclysmic events? This has been mentioned in a couple sci-fi movies and books over the course of history, but never backed by any evidence theoretical or otherwise. Stop regurgitating this garbage without a second thought and evaluate the possibilities yourself... That said I don't think they are the same person, but your thought process is crap. haha time bastard theory there are many theorys on this but its unknown what would truly happen |
| I signed my screen and now its all smeary "When you meet your God tell him to leave me alone." check out my bloghttp://corpse69.wordpress.com/ fix MAL already |
HawthorneKitty said: Fuck, not even Takuto's libido is enough to save Mayuri. Well done.  |
Kansokusha said: Well that explains it better so we will all assume he KO Moeka wihtout us seeing it as in most animes it happens like that anyway. Right? Hypno-girl said: This episode was good but there's one thing that I tough was really retarded. When Mayuri died for a second time I cannot start to understand how the fuck did Okabe managed to pass megane and her evil army of soldier that were armed, god she even had a car (nice hit on mayuri between) to get to his lab and to do a second time loop. I wouldn't get surprised if the scene was much more detailled in the VN but in the anime it was really retarded and I mean really. In the VN both Okabe n Mayuri got hitted by the car, and Okabe still had the strength to knock out Moeka, then dashed all the way back to the lab. Haha. =( And they too skiped 2 death scenes b4 Mayuri got run over by the train, I dun know if they will put them back in the following episodes so ill use a spoiler tag. SPOILER AHEAD In regards to the spoiler, I hope that gets done. The order may just be changed. That also happens in anime. hikaricore said: Well that's exactly the thing, that I saw it in a movie and since a lot of time travel is not well proven from the sci-fi then it's quite possible once time travel becomes a reality.Yumekichi11 said: Also it would be impossible for all Suzuha may have to do is to touch Moeka and both are gone. They are therefore not the same person. Again people are assuming pre-defined time travel "logic" without understanding how it works in this story. Exactly what proof do you have that a future version of ones self touching a current version of ones self would result in such cataclysmic events? This has been mentioned in a couple sci-fi movies and books over the course of history, but never backed by any evidence theoretical or otherwise. |
Yumekichi11 said: When If time travel becomes reality sometime in the future, I'll go back in time and hit myself in the face to disprove that theory. Just sayin'.hikaricore said: Well that's exactly the thing, that I saw it in a movie and since a lot of time travel is not well proven from the sci-fi then it's quite possible once time travel becomes a reality.Yumekichi11 said: Again people are assuming pre-defined time travel "logic" without understanding how it works in this story. Exactly what proof do you have that a future version of ones self touching a current version of ones self would result in such cataclysmic events? This has been mentioned in a couple sci-fi movies and books over the course of history, but never backed by any evidence theoretical or otherwise.Also it would be impossible for all Suzuha may have to do is to touch Moeka and both are gone. They are therefore not the same person. |
| Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile. Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(ﾟДﾟщ) Nope™, probably not. |
| Mayuuuushiiiiiiiiiiiiiii~ Why? D: |
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| In D-mail, Okabe shifted World Line, thats why things changed. But Time Leap Machine, he goes back in time but in the same World Line. That proves why Mayushi cannot escape her death. |
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togeyanagi said: Best simple logic expressed. Hence why I think Moeka should just be shot and die! :D Then that what causes the death of Mayuri is gone.In D-mail, Okabe shifted World Line, thats why things changed. But Time Leap Machine, he goes back in time but in the same World Line. That proves why Mayushi cannot escape her death. |
| Suzu was kicking a$$ there. Poor Mayuri :( |
Yumekichi11 said: togeyanagi said: Best simple logic expressed. Hence why I think Moeka should just be shot and die! :D Then that what causes the death of Mayuri is gone.In D-mail, Okabe shifted World Line, thats why things changed. But Time Leap Machine, he goes back in time but in the same World Line. That proves why Mayushi cannot escape her death. ANd incorrect logic. WHat it takes to people to understand that its SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE THE PAST OF SAME TIMELINE and that d-mail and time-leap are exact same thing, its just what you send that differs. hikaricore said: Yumekichi11 said: Also it would be impossible for all Suzuha may have to do is to touch Moeka and both are gone. They are therefore not the same person. Again people are assuming pre-defined time travel "logic" without understanding how it works in this story. Exactly what proof do you have that a future version of ones self touching a current version of ones self would result in such cataclysmic events? This has been mentioned in a couple sci-fi movies and books over the course of history, but never backed by any evidence theoretical or otherwise. Stop regurgitating this garbage without a second thought and evaluate the possibilities yourself... That said I don't think they are the same person, but your thought process is crap. In fact the theories in show DEFY the idea of something cataclysmic happening in that case, since if they both are suzuha, then they are different suzuhas from different verses and not the same suzuha. DesolateOne said: Fai said: Let me explain it simply: I travel to the past and kill my past self. Past self as result does not travel into the past. Then how could I travel into the past? If i did not travel into the past, I could not have killed my past self. If I did not kill my past self, my past self travels into the past cue paradox. That IS a paradox, but how about this? Instead of me actually killing myself, let us say I maimed myself (let's say I end up in a coma) and thus could not send memories into the past. I sent memories into the past and maimed myself. As a result, past self did not send memories into the past. What happens? I'm simply maimed after having received my memories and now must live my life as such. I do not need my past self to send memories of myself to the past, as I have already done so once. No one but myself knows that I know what happens in the future. What I'm trying to say is that it appears to have happened sequentially and not simultaneously. I received, and then I acted, and therefore I got the result. Not I received and acted and got the result at the same time, therefore did not send, thus not acted, and thus never got the result, (continues endlessly like your paradox). It's like hitting backspace on a word. ie. "money". You send memories of to your past self and end up erasing it so it just spells "mone". There never was a physical time where you typed "money". You just remember being as such. The time in between was erased and begins at the time you received your memories. Having said all that - truthfully, it's not said in the VN whether the time-leap causes a shift into an alternate world line or if it stays in the same one. My opinions are based on how I interpreted what happened in the game and the cause behind it. To me, it points to a single world line. Yes - what happens after the D-mail and time-leap does change the world, but you say it branches off into an alternate worldline while I say it stays in the same one. Maybe if you continue watching the series until the end, your opinions may differ (or stay the same). That would be nice and dandy except that it defies logics. Cause is happening before the effect and effect eradicates cause, just because from my pov the cause happened, it does not mean that it happens from the timeline's pov.Thus in the end the effect negates the cause, thus negating itself, thus having no reason to negate the cause. If you travel to same timeline thus you are able to affect it, if you are able to affect it, you are able to affect what you do in future, if you are able to affect that, you are able to affect your travelling into the past, if you are able to affect that, cue paradox. The one and only possible same-timeline travel would be the causality loop, in that your actions having traveled into the past(assuming you do not land in your past body that is) directly lead to the chain of probabilities that lead you to travel to the past in future in exact same way. Your analogy about maiming would work if the world did not have a logical structure, however it does and thats exactly one of many reasons why time-travel as most common folk imagine it is not possible and the only possible way is to actually get into an alternate timeline past. You can't "backspace" the same timeline, because doing so would backspace you doing that. |
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Fai said: That's not the point it is more of the point that eliminate the cause that creates the effect hence Moeka herself. Kill her and there shall be no one that may kill Mayuri less there is another cause that makes this effect. If it is SERN itself then it may be a hard case to stop all this but nonetheless a solution certainly exists.Yumekichi11 said: togeyanagi said: Best simple logic expressed. Hence why I think Moeka should just be shot and die! :D Then that what causes the death of Mayuri is gone.In D-mail, Okabe shifted World Line, thats why things changed. But Time Leap Machine, he goes back in time but in the same World Line. That proves why Mayushi cannot escape her death. ANd incorrect logic. WHat it takes to people to understand that its SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE THE PAST OF SAME TIMELINE and that d-mail and time-leap are exact same thing, its just what you send that differs. Fai said: Hence the problem is the effect of Okabe affecting the cause itself, a mutation of it can only be attributed to the original cause of it all. The travelling but there is no logic in how it can be stopped so why would the world be logical if time travelling is not logical itself. Only the methods and calculations are. Trying to make sense but guess perhaps I may not be. Fai your explanations are rather chaotic but even that is part as a element itself in time traveling. |
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