Are you
for
58.7%
37
against
28.6%
18
undecided
12.7%
8
63 votes
| So are you "for" or "against" capital punishment? This was actually from a conversation I had heard from students on my way to work on the train this morning. Most likely for their assignments or some debate club(morbid as it was), it was a very good discussion that they had raised which had the whole cart I was in all ears in attention to what each of the students had to say. Living in Australia, I could say we are one of the lucky developed countries to never see something such as the death penalty as I am totally against, especially since there are cases where the defendant can be wrongly accused(ok I've seen 1 or too many movies....but it can happen). ..but I do see why people who are "for" with the death penalty, due to some of the crimes you hear on the news can be very heinous. So what are your thoughts on capital punishment? Note: Since someone's kindly pointed out that there is already a thread about the Death Penalty, let me re-iterate this topic by asking, HOW LENIENT IS YOUR COUNTRY TO CAPITAL PUNISHMENT? And considering people say it's not humane to kill someone whether justly or unjustly, if hypothetically something happened to someone close to you at heart and the perpetrator was caught, would you want to the law to act out your vengeance? Note2: My other question is, if capital punishment was re-introduced into the system where you lived(if there is no death penalty), do you think that would lessen or even prevent crime from happening?(as in scare tactics) |
ScryptMar 10, 2011 11:36 PM
| I believe in the death penalty, even though in Puerto Rico is impossible to implement because of our constitution. Some criminals are insane, they keep killing people when they are locked up and the state can only give him another life sentence. I read once that there was a felon with 7 life sentences! Death penalty is a way to get rid of these crazy criminals. Prison is supposed to be a place where criminals get reformed, not a place to lock up everyone who can't get along in society. The original idea of the prison system was great, but right now I don't think anyone cares if a criminal gets better from spending time in prison. The system right now is working as a punishment for people who broke the law, instead of helping criminals to get better :/. So death penalty should be given to people who can't be reformed, for example people with life sentences. |
| I think the Death Penalty should only be reserved for murderers. It's a waste of money to keep a bunch of murderers alive when they have no chance of ever coming out... |
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| What's the point of killing them? They're not suffering for their crimes, they're just dead. No death penalty. |
nerb said: My thoughts exactly.The whole point of government-funded incarceration is to rehabilitate someone and send them out as soon as they are no longer a menace to society. If you are sentenced to live out the rest of your life in prison, then by definition you are irredeemable. At that point, what is the benefit of making someone suck up taxpayer money to live a miserable shell of a life? So murderers, rapists, jaywalkers, traitors and others who are deemed unrepentant, unapologetic and unable to become normalized get their due. Since we can't read minds, we can't just have someone say "Sorry about that rape, this'll be the last one, I swear" so we'll have to have some sort of God-have-mercy-on-you-because-we-won't-sort-of-deal. There are plenty of murders that are one off cases, and a decade or two behind bars might be enough of a negative enforcement to ensure it doesn't repeat. But then you've got the dangerous ones. Serial killers or people with incorrigible psychological disorders that put everyone around them at risk. These dangerous elements should never be let back out in society at all, so why keep them as the state's pets, siphoning resources and costing taxpayer money with their every breath? People are nothing but cogs in the machinery, and if they can't be bent back into shape or fixed up in any way, you ought to throw them in the bin. One alternative that could be preferable though is that they spend their lives doing some dangerous job that no one else wants to do. In times of war we could turn them into a penal legion tasked with suicide charges, act as human shields or cheap means of mine clearing. Iin peaceful times they could slave away in mines or other dangerous workplaces, If the tunnels collapse, there's not really any rush to clear it out. And false convictions should not be a problem. Death penalty should be reserved only for those that are clearly dangerous and incorrigible, and now we're talking psychotic serial killers and the lot. I certainly can't see how someone that's not guilty would be mistaken for someone like that. And if you're not entirely sure, just lock the fucker up for a while, then free him with compensation if you were wrong and gass him if you weren't. CaritasAvaritia said: Why would you make them suffer? The whole barbaric medieval idea of revenge is out of place in a modern legal state. People are punished due to the negative reinforcement the punishment entails, so that they themselves do not repeat their blunder and so that others that would commit the same crimes get to see an example.What's the point of killing them? They're not suffering for their crimes, they're just dead. No death penalty. |
BamanMar 9, 2011 5:01 PM
| I'm not religious, so I don't buy into that "who are we to judge" mentality. Eye-for-an-eye might not be the most ethical or humane justice, but it is the closest thing to "fair" you can get. If the family of a murdered person wanted the assailant executed, I don't see why they shouldn't be. |
| you do the crime, you do the time...to me its that simple...if you kill you should be killed |
| No point in the death penalty. It hasn't worked as a deterrent, there are too many innocent people killed (if you're still in jail and innocent, you can get out. If you're dead, you're SOL). Plus, in the US, death row inmates cost more tax dollars than life in prison, because of the appeals they get and the prices associated with killing them. Some countries still use the death penalty for stuff like illegal drug use, too. I don't want a state having the ability to end people's lives like that. It's high-time to work towards abolishing it everywhere. Sadly, the US still has a way to go towards getting rid of it. We kill a lot of people still. |
| I am all for the death penalty. We spend too much money of keeping the people in jail alive. If you do not want to die, then do not commit a serious crime. If someone is innocently convicted, then well that sucks. It happens. |
 “Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” ~ Fulton Oursler |
| The idea that fairness should come into play is ridiculous. If you want to have someone executed because they killed someone close to you, how are you any better than the murderer? Because you have justice on your side? What is justice? Revenge justified by the majority? Why does the majority justify revenge at all? Out of some sick desire to make everything, even death, fair? The death penalty is completely unreasonable when you look at it as a method of fair-making. I think it's funny that it's called punishment. Punishment shouldn't be an end. It should be a means to teach. Capital punishment makes sense to me in the way that nerb and Baman described. And it makes a lot of sense that way. On another note, who knew that the reincarceration rate was about 52% in 1994? |
zharnotczarMar 9, 2011 9:40 PM
| It could be improved upon. Death is nothing more then a state on nonexistence so that part isn't so bad, particularly here in the US were we have to be humane to inhumane criminals. A little bit of one drug to numb the pain a little bit of another to slow/stop your breathing and a little bit of another to stop the heart all injected rather quickly and your out like a light, like falling asleep. No if we really want a a deterrent then have the criminal go through what ever crime he committed. So rapists get raped(lets say by a base ball bat) murderers gets killed in the way they killed their victims, and child molesters well thats a hard one, but I guess you could always nail their balls to a stump give them a dull knife and set the stump on fire. I figure with a punishment system more like that people might think a bit more before perpetrating a crime of any sort. |
| I wouldn't say I'm for the death penalty (way to much power for corrupt people) though I am quite disatisfied with the 'correctional system' currently in place. There was a recent case here in Australia where a judge got paid for every person he sentenced to some juvenile correction/prison institution and ended up throwing in people who should never have been there: 'thanks for the criminal record, pal'. I once read how much it cost to keep someone 'securely' in prison and the amount was horrendous. I think prisoners should be working and forced to eak out a living even behind bars. As per rapists they're usually (at least the serial ones) overloaded with testosterone - solution: all rapists to be castrated. |
nerb said: As for false convictions, yes they do happen, but that is an issue with the legal system that needs to be fixed. After all, "beyond a shadow of a doubt" should mean what it says, and not just be talk. I have no idea how the premise of "Is the evidence against this guy reliable? Is it conclusive? Then kill the bastard" is so hard to stick to, but it's not too hard to just pass a few laws. This is entirely wrong, Cases that where slam dunks, beyond a shadow of a doubt and ultimately conclusive as recent as 5 or 10 years ago are now being over turned instantly due to new break thews in DNA analysis, various other applied sciences, new legal precedences and good old fashion digging that reveals incompetence in evidence collection on a monthly bases. Evidence will never be perfect no matter how good it is. Just a year ago a man served 30 years in jail because he was linked to a rape. But was found innocent due to DNA evidence that would have been found if it hadn't be for recent scientific breakthroughs. |
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
| Death Penalty for terrorists and those convicted of treason only, they deserve to die and never should be locked up much less get due process that can last for years or even decades. For regular murderers not charged with terrorism or treason, life in prison. |
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GoodEnoughForMe said: That's just because the system is ridiculously bloated and ineffective. If you're even contemplating death penalty, there must be no doubt that the perpetrator is mad and will be a danger to society if he is let loose. Then you kill him right away, shoot him in the back of the head right outside the courtroom.Plus, in the US, death row inmates cost more tax dollars than life in prison, because of the appeals they get and the prices associated with killing them. Rob3rt said: But these rights are all man made, so no problem for us to change them.Today we have acknowledged that humans have rights, and the right to live is the most basic one. You will argue that you are only talking about murderers here, but someone already mentioned rapists. If you think about it you should realize that your stereotypical psychopathic serial killer is... psychopathic! Which means mentally ill. Same goes for notorious rapists who give in to their fantasies. And thus, they should be liquidated. People with a mental illness that make them so unstable that they are a constant danger to others are worthless, they can't be expected to function in society normally. As such, the only logical option is to remove them just like the germs they are, and execution is the swiftest and cheapest method of doing so. Of course, I suppose it would have been just as well to keep them locked down in a mine for the rest of their days, but while a normal criminal could most likely be counted on to work more or less properly during his incarceration, a raving mad person is another prospect. So unless they could serve some other purpose, like human experimentation or cannon fodder, killing them would surely be the most feasible option. |
| Why would the death penalty be used just for revenge? Who and for what reason did someone implement the death penalty solely for revenge? It is used as a means of protecting citizens from criminals who need the death penalty. It is not for revenge, maybe for the victims family, but what the hell can they do. They can only sit back and watch the criminal get prosecuted. Revenge would be the family of the victim killing the murderer. There are other cases where the death penalty should be implemented and revenge is out of the question. |
“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” ~ Fulton Oursler |
Hoppy said: Death Penalty for terrorists and those convicted of treason only, they deserve to die and never should be locked up much less get due process that can last for years or even decades. For regular murderers not charged with terrorism or treason, life in prison. Sorry, but.....are you CRAZY? not get due process??? That would eliminate any and all of their legal rights! Getting rid of due process would be a contradiction since laws are there to be kept - it would make law pointless in that it is supposed to protect people from each other and also the state. I'm guessing you have not read any of the anti-terrorist legislation but they are VERY broad and VERY ill defined (I study law by the way) - there is yet no universally legally binding criminal law definition for terrorist/terrorism. Also, have you ever heard the term 'one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist'? Remember that the USA won independence from Britain through 'terrorist' acts. Removing due process for 'terrorists' would give the government unlimited power to extinguish any and all opposition to government - and this woudn't be limited to the radical 'lets bomb the senate' types. Now unless your one of those poor deluded people who believe the government is a pure and perfect institution this would be idiotic. |
Hoppy said: I suppose I can understand terrorists, as their extreme ideology might make it impossible to rehabilitate them, but treason? A turncoat does not necessarily endanger society, unless the person in question has some sort of top position in politics or the military and sell information to an enemy that might endanger society, but that's easily fixable by removing the offender from that position and make sure any further position of power is denied him.Death Penalty for terrorists and those convicted of treason only, they deserve to die and never should be locked up much less get due process that can last for years or even decades. A normal turncoat does in no way pose such a grave threat to society that liquidation is the only solution, so death penalty is completely unnecessary. Lilah said: The victims of the crime should be of no concern to the judicial system. People are given punishment to scar others into obedience and ensure proper behaviour from the citizenry by negative enforcement, as well as hopefully rehabilitating the offender in question.I don't think capital punishment makes much sense. What good comes of it? It doesn't bring back the the victims or murder or undo the trauma of being raped. But in the case of crazy or otherwise irredeemable and dangerous individuals that can not be let lose in society again, death penalty can eliminate them and ensure society stays safe. And in a much more secure and low cost way than permanent incarceration can. It's just like killing bugs in the garden. If there's too much worms in a flower bed, you might take your time to throw them out and put them in another patch where they will be of more use, but bugs that do nothing but destroy your flowers can only be destroyed. Oh, and what Kusakusa said too. If you want to remove people's judicial safety, you might as well abolish the legal system and go back to barbaric ochlocracy. |
BamanMar 10, 2011 8:00 PM
Hoppy said: Death Penalty for terrorists and those convicted of treason only, they deserve to die and never should be locked up much less get due process that can last for years or even decades. For regular murderers not charged with terrorism or treason, life in prison. "Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion." That's a lot of dead Amurikans |
| I believe in the death penalty, some crimes are just so horrible that they warrant the death penalty. Plus if you execute criminals you can't let them out due to some bull shit reasons like they did with that terrorist who murdered a 120 something people. Also life in prison is basically telling the victims' loved ones that they get to support the person who killed their loved one for the rest of their life. Its a kick in the teeth to the victims loved ones. |
ezikialrage said: Also life in prison is basically telling the victims' loved ones that they get to support the person who killed their loved one for the rest of their life. Its a kick in the teeth to the victims loved ones. same goes with every crime...in most developed countries, I do find the penal systems pretty flawed as the prisoners may be doing the time but us as the taxpayers are paying it for them.... while I am against the death penalty due to humane rights(regardless of how heinous the criminal is, they are still human), a part of me also sways to the "for" due to that those who are repeat offenders really do need an ULTIMATUM or else where does it end? If rehabilitation doesn't work, and the offense is deemed to be so great(such as murder/rape/even terrorism) then your next best step should be death. Anyways I'll -edit OP for my other question regarding this matter... |
| I totally support the death penalty but I think torturing criminals to death would be more fitting than giving them an instant death (such as capital punishment). |
Wool said: I am all for the death penalty. We spend too much money of keeping the people in jail alive. If you do not want to die, then do not commit a serious crime. If someone is innocently convicted, then well that sucks. It happens. The death penalty costs more than keeping them in prison for life. |
Mr. Wonsworth, you may NOT eat my scones! |
| I've seen too much scum to be able to say that they all deserve life. This world is for all of us, and why exactly do decent people like you and me deserve to suffer to allow these pathetic creatures the dignity they've made a reputation of denying others? That's not justice. |
| > The Fellow MAL Users Social Link has reached level 6! > Your power to create Forum Posts of the Anime Arcana has grown! |
Treekodar said: No it doesn't. What's the price of a bullet? That's how cheap the death penalty is. It's just America's ridiculously bloated and ineffective death row system that costs a lot.The death penalty costs more than keeping them in prison for life. AlexSadist-sama said: True to your name I see?I totally support the death penalty but I think torturing criminals to death would be more fitting than giving them an instant death (such as capital punishment). But what's the point of torture? Unless they carry vital information that they may spill with some pain, what do anyone gain from torturing a murderer before you kill him? This isn't the dark ages anymore. |
Treekodar said: The death penalty costs more than keeping them in prison for life. Seriously? The cost of maintainence of an individual for the span of his life is more than the cost of the death penalty? I imagine it to a a VERY elaborate death penalty. As for me, I don't support capital punishment nor do I support letting them rot in prison. Using them as human experimentation devices is the best course of action. Scientific advancement benefits all of humanity. The countries who practice capital punishment should replace it with human experimentation. They will never be short of lab rats. |
| Doubt Doubt. |
| I'm against it in most cases. People get falsely accused of crimes, and if someone is killed for a crime they didn't commit, that's not fair at all. People should only get the death penalty if they are completely proven to have committed a crime like serial murders or terrorism. People who have committed smaller crimes can just sit in jail for all I care. |
| I have no confidence in the ability of my government to decide who lives or dies therefor I am against the death penalty. |
codezer0 said: I am against death penalty, simply because I don't see how dying is a punishment. I live in Denmark with no death penalty and the prisons is way too "nice", and the prison time/penalty is rarely a long time. I'm all for life time (real lifetime) in a really closed and strict prison. But no matter the punishment available, crime will exist. And no I don't think there would be less crime if Denmark got death penalty (besides I think the crime rate is pretty low in Denmark already). If someone for example are ready to kill, they are either sick/insane or simply have nothing to loose and don't care about the punishment... at least that's what I think, but then again I have not tried being a killer yet :D It's not about punishment. If you have a dog that bites people you have to put it down, it's not to punish the dog, you just want to get rid of the problem. Same with certain criminals, you just need to get rid of them. I guess if you want to also punish them, cremate them whether they want it or not, pour their ashes in a landfill, and don't allow a headstone or grave to be erected for them. That way it'll be like they never existed. What is a worse fate than to be forgotten by everyone? |
| > The Fellow MAL Users Social Link has reached level 6! > Your power to create Forum Posts of the Anime Arcana has grown! |
Vinter said: What is a worse fate than to be forgotten by everyone? Which is inevitable unless you have had significant impact on humanity in general (say, invent electricity, invent the microprocessor, etc). |
| capital punishment is such a waste. why not send them over to afghanistan to defuse roadside bombs. |
| Heads I win. Tails you lose. |
Vinter said: Would work in a society where being remembered is important. They did that in ancient Egypt by hacking out the names of the offender from whichever wall it was they wrote the names on, which meant they wouldn't have a record of their existence for the afterlife and be doomed to wander around eternally or something. I guess if you want to also punish them, cremate them whether they want it or not, pour their ashes in a landfill, and don't allow a headstone or grave to be erected for them. That way it'll be like they never existed. What is a worse fate than to be forgotten by everyone? But honestly, without bringing in some sort of supernatural hogwash like that, would anyone ever care about what happens when they die? |
Baman said: Vinter said: Would work in a society where being remembered is important. They did that in ancient Egypt by hacking out the names of the offender from whichever wall it was they wrote the names on, which meant they wouldn't have a record of their existence for the afterlife and be doomed to wander around eternally or something. I guess if you want to also punish them, cremate them whether they want it or not, pour their ashes in a landfill, and don't allow a headstone or grave to be erected for them. That way it'll be like they never existed. What is a worse fate than to be forgotten by everyone? But honestly, without bringing in some sort of supernatural hogwash like that, would anyone ever care about what happens when they die? I want to be remembered forever. Like Alexander the Great, or Cleopatra. |
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Vinter said: You can't punish the dead seeing as how they are dead.I guess if you want to also punish them, cremate them whether they want it or not, pour their ashes in a landfill, and don't allow a headstone or grave to be erected for them. It kind of sounds like you got a thing against cremation :) |
GogettersMar 13, 2011 3:31 PM
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Baman said: Vinter said: Would work in a society where being remembered is important. They did that in ancient Egypt by hacking out the names of the offender from whichever wall it was they wrote the names on, which meant they wouldn't have a record of their existence for the afterlife and be doomed to wander around eternally or something. I guess if you want to also punish them, cremate them whether they want it or not, pour their ashes in a landfill, and don't allow a headstone or grave to be erected for them. That way it'll be like they never existed. What is a worse fate than to be forgotten by everyone? But honestly, without bringing in some sort of supernatural hogwash like that, would anyone ever care about what happens when they die? What are you talking about? In Ancient Egypt, the punishment isn't erasing names. It's called playing a card game and then getting your soul sealed into a card, duh! What book have you been reading!? |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
Baman said: Vinter said: Would work in a society where being remembered is important. They did that in ancient Egypt by hacking out the names of the offender from whichever wall it was they wrote the names on, which meant they wouldn't have a record of their existence for the afterlife and be doomed to wander around eternally or something. I guess if you want to also punish them, cremate them whether they want it or not, pour their ashes in a landfill, and don't allow a headstone or grave to be erected for them. That way it'll be like they never existed. What is a worse fate than to be forgotten by everyone? But honestly, without bringing in some sort of supernatural hogwash like that, would anyone ever care about what happens when they die? What are you talking about? In Ancient Egypt, the punishment isn't erasing names. It's called playing a card game and then getting your soul sealed into a card, duh! What book have you been reading!? |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
Vinter said: I guess if you want to also punish them, cremate them whether they want it or not, pour their ashes in a landfill, and don't allow a headstone or grave to be erected for them. That way it'll be like they never existed. What is a worse fate than to be forgotten by everyone? these days, people are a dime a dozen and actually even giving them a cremation feels like your actually doing something for them... Without sounding like I'm profiling here, I've noticed a fair few serial criminals are usually the "lonely-don't-have-a-single-friend type" who are easily shunned by society anyways once they hit the news...and once their on broadcast, your probably remember them whether you like it or not(specially if you or anyone close to you are victim to them) I say all the governments from each developed country should chip in and have a man-made island(like an alcatraz) erected somewhere very far from society(say the nth. pole) and stick every deathrow prisoner there for life. Yes it may cost at first but once it becomes self-reliant, the only thing each country will be paying for is the plane ticket there If criminals still want to murder or do whatever, well its up to them once left on that island and is none of our business. Those that helped chip in have done the best humane thing to do and can wash their hands off them. |
| Utopia & Dystopia, the bottom line is we can idealise and speculate all we want but we will never have a society in which everyone can agree colectively on what's right and what's not. The human spirit is too big of a factor. |
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| Utopia & Dystopia, the bottom line is we can idealise and speculate all we want but we will never have a society in which everyone can agree colectively on what's right and what's not. The human spirit is too big of a factor. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I don't believe in punishment nearly as much as rehabilitation. Capital punishment in particular is something I find distaste in. You'd have to be really self righteous to wish it on someone. |
 |
| nope, if you murder or rape a child, you should be put to the wall. |
| Heads I win. Tails you lose. |
| nope, if you murder or rape a child, you should be put to the wall. |
| Heads I win. Tails you lose. |
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