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| THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- That was a surprising ending. For Mie to have continued loving Irako like that was unexpected. |
| Ooh, I wish Gennosuke hadn't done that. He really had nothing left in the end. While I thought Irako was defeated a bit too easily, I found the death scene captivating. Gennosuke's confession that Irako's dazzle was such that he needed to kill him, plus the fact that he had admired Irako's pride, was wonderfully done. NP-3228 said: Really? I always doubted Mie's love for Gennosuke - maybe she did love him, but she definitely did not stop loving Irako.For Mie to have continued loving Irako like that was unexpected. I think it was Gonzaemon who said something about her maiden's heart being captured and broken by Irako - or something to that effect. |
Athena said: maybe she did love him, but she definitely did not stop loving Irako.. My thoughts exactly. But that doesn't change the fast that she wanted him dead to avenge her father. The reason she took her own life has more to do with Gennosuke obeying the order he was given. There are 2 panels right before she commits suicide which are taken straight from chapter 9 "Puppets". Perfect end in my opinion. |
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Maybe she dies because there was nothing left after revenge. Mie did lose everything after the death match. With only revenge fueling her, after it was over she didn't find anything worth living for. Just another conclusion on my part. |
guiglar said: That's what I thought too. She really wanted revenge, and the promise they made with Gennosuke if he wins makes it kinda contradictory to believe she killed herself out of love for Seigen. So yeah, she couldn't bear to see him becoming another mindless puppet - is the most reasonable explanation for me. Still sad though.The reason she took her own life has more to do with Gennosuke obeying the order he was given. There are 2 panels right before she commits suicide which are taken straight from chapter 9 "Puppets". Great end nevertheless. |
| after she reached the peak of her existence, there was no more purpose left for her life I'm sad Irako died at the end I felt he was a better man than Fujiki |
| <img src="http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww126/II_DaRkO_II/persona.png?t=1321953097" /> |
| ^I was ʘ‿ʘ when Fujiki sliced up Irako but really, neither is worse/better, Fujiki followed the codes and was a 'model' samurai, Irako went against the codes and lived it up, but look how both ended up.. I also think that it's not so simple as Fujiki = justice, honor and integrity and Irako = I hate this social order and won't bend to it as far as I can tell the entire world of Shigurui is unhinged and cruel to the extreme, and small characters like our heroes don't really have much control over events. The young maiden killing herself wasn't really a shock, you can see that she's subconsciously torn when she has that vision of Gennosuke dieing before the fight then telling him that she saw him win. the question here is: was that vision fear for Gennosuke's life or perhaps the part of her that still liked Seigen wanted Gennosuke dead or maybe both? |
alcuradNov 9, 2011 9:13 PM
Xuchiel said: guiglar said: That's what I thought too. She really wanted revenge, and the promise they made with Gennosuke if he wins makes it kinda contradictory to believe she killed herself out of love for Seigen. So yeah, she couldn't bear to see him becoming another mindless puppet - is the most reasonable explanation for me. Still sad though.The reason she took her own life has more to do with Gennosuke obeying the order he was given. There are 2 panels right before she commits suicide which are taken straight from chapter 9 "Puppets". Out of all the theories thrown out here, Ill have to agree with this one. There is no doubt in my mind that Mei wanted revenge for her father's death; she even appeared elated when Fujiki gutted Ikaro ** applause**. As 'guiglar' pointed out in an earlier post, Mei's change came after Fujiki was ordered to behead Irako. For some reason, that did not sit well with her nor Fujiki, for that matter. Although I doubt that Mei killing herself had anything to do with loving Irako, I still believe it was senseless and selfish. I also agree with 'alcurad' ; I so enjoyed seeing Irako get his and Fujiki giving it to him was the highlight. And yes... "Shigurui" is one bizarre manga written by an author with a equally so imagination. But... I loved every second of it and, for me, it sets it apart from the current mainstream manga. An absolute joy to read (with the exception of the ending chapter). |
| I was left rather confused about Mie's feelings, myself. There was a comment about Fujiki sensing the darkness hiding underneath in one of the last chapters that made me think she might have loved Irako more, following him not raping her, and actually come to have been more enraged by Irako sleeping with Iku when they were to be married. Not sure. The random chapter where Irako turned up with an ape's head and - for some inexplicable reason - lied about his relationship with Iku also hinted at this. But the confusion over Mie's feelings was caused more by shoddy writing than anything. She went from wanted to marry Fujiki, wanting to marry Irako after he 'saved' her purity, going insane over her last ray of hope vanishing... to caring about her demented father's school/the father that occasionally sexually abused her to the extent she became a strong-minded woman desperate for vengeance. It didn't fit AT ALL. Surely she should've been happy to she the chains that bound her into a life of existing only to breed be destroyed?... Anyway, the manga became an extended-beyond-goodness mess once Fujiki lost the three volume(ish?) duel with Irako. Fujiki was robotic throughout and Irako's characterisation ended once he'd got his revenge. All that was left was more animal imagery, manly narration, gore and some needless nudity... with utterly pointless new/random character backstories thrown around to make a series that had long lost its luster drag-on further. WHAT WAS EVEN THE POINT OF THE FROG-GUY AND DICK-WOMAN!? The last we saw of the 'woman' was Mr. Evil doing her up the arse; not caring about 'her' growing a penis. Pure filler. In short: a decent enough gorefest that long outstayed its welcome. The uninspiring nature of the final duel and the ending itself made it crystal that a shallow work had gone on for far too long. |
AironicallyHuman said: WHAT WAS EVEN THE POINT OF THE FROG-GUY AND DICK-WOMAN!? The last we saw of the 'woman' was Mr. Evil doing her up the arse; not caring about 'her' growing a penis. Pure filler. Yeah, It might just be a filler, but I enjoyed tbh! |
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| Totally agree with the filler crap, completely unnecesary. I loved the whole story however and it is very refreshing to read something unconstrained and not focused for the mainstream audience once in a while. About the final chapter, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I get the feeling that Mie never really forgave Gennosuke and you can see how he is tormented by the scene when he is holding her to be raped just before the end, which kind of shows that either she never forgave him at all or that he never completely forgave himself about this. She also repeats "please kill him" on several points on the final chapters, but you never really know if she is directly asking Gennosuke to kill Seigen or if she is talking to herself and actually meaning the opposite, something like "please (Seigen), kill him (Gennosuke)", thus justifying her not telling Gennosuke about her vision just before the match, why else wouldn't she warn him about this? And finally, I'm pretty sure that in Mie's vision Gennosuke's face was cut from above, not from below. But that's for another time. |
| The last fight was indeed short lived.. But again thats what distinguishes this samurai manga from others , it depicts the samurai life exactly how it was , no clashing swords and endless fights like other shonen samurai manga.. Regarding the end i think it was fitting. Had Irako won, he would have proved to the world that the Kogan style was nothing , he would have ascended to even greater hights of fame and fortune, and im not sure what Mie would have done.. Maybe go under his care ? What i think the author wanted to show is two things. First , a man who tried to defy the social order doesnt really change a thing under the reign of a cruel lord and second a man is willing to get stripped of his pride and personality just to please his lord and follow the cruel teachings he has been taught restraining his humanity and sense of mercy thus becoming a mere puppet. All in all, i think it pictures samurai reality perfectly.. |
| It's a good samurai story that have a fitting ending. However I agree that the writing is somewhat shoddy. It left me the feeling that the mangaka had no clear idea in which way to develop the characters and so he experimented along the way. |
| I was really disappointed with the end. All I really wanted to see is how the fight from the anime would turn out but I didn't expect this. The ending feels kinda rushed and doesn't really make sense unless you make up theories of what the author could've thought. Although it pleases me to see Mie die (never really liked her character... I like Gennosuke, no I like Iraku, oh they were so cruel to him now I'm in despair, now I'm a total psycho, time to like Gennosuke again, now I kill myself, what do I actually want) I really didn't want Gennosuke to win. To me he was an inferior character to Irako, mainly because I think Irako has suffered enough in life and had finally received some happiness. Also he is a pretty kind character considering all that he's done for other people. Somehow I see the Kogan clan as the villains in this anime. And in the end if you think about the story all that's happened happened because of Iku.^^ It's kinda funny how everything would turn out like that just because Iku and Irako had a little happy time. |
| How can you say that Irako is kind? He used everyone he could for his ambition.He killed his own mother. He killed the doctor from whom he took his name. He killed Suzu and many more innocent people. |
| A very fitting ending to one of the most brutal stories I have ever read. Happily ever after was just not possible for 2 people who are as damaged as these 2. I agree with Guiglar, Mie takes her life because Gennosuke once again obeyed a shameful order which brings her back to her own ordeal with her father and his disciples. Th 2 panels showing that scene right before she kills herself leave no doubt on the matter. In a way, I also think that Mie might have hated Irako all the more because she still loved him in a very physical sort of way. I think what she found mos unforgivable is that while he was engaged to her, he was seeing Iku. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
AironicallyHuman said: yah thats got me wondering tooWHAT WAS EVEN THE POINT OF THE FROG-GUY AND DICK-WOMAN!? The last we saw of the 'woman' was Mr. Evil doing her up the arse; not caring about 'her' growing a penis. Pure filler. however i thought this ending while a bit abrupt was fitting, Mie still loving irako caught me completely off guard, and its a very fitting end to these characters though i do have a bit of pity for fujiki, he may have been a revenge filled monster willing to kill without a bit of empathy or remorse, but he was finally becomming human for the first time and after this truly believed he was going to have a happy life only to be essentially betrayed by mie in the end ultimately giving fujiki a fate worse than death, its pretty brilliant in my mind. i give the series a 8 |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| I wonder how stupid the fight must of looked to outsiders who didn't know how calculated each move was.. You have a blind bastard and a one armed cripple fighting it out to the death! The match ends with the one armed wonder accidentally letting his sword slip out of his hand almost impaling a spectator! The blind bastard makes one desperate swing with his sword and misses horribly! Mr. Cripple closes in fast and leans into the blind bastard with his wakizashi in tow! Ect, ect, ect... |
| I love that the ending leaves some room for interpretation, as evidenced by this thread. I'd personally go with the theory that Mie killed herself because she saw that Gennosuke was still a 'puppet'. The flashbacks seem to indicate this. Then again, the other theories don't seem completely unlikely either. Of course this is somewhat unfair to Gennosuke, it's not like he had much of a choice. Who knows what would have happened to him if he refused the order. He didn't seem to enjoy it either. As for what happened to Gennosuke afterwards, my own little theory is that he became like a second Kogan. With nothing left that will keep his human side alive, only the loyalty to his deceased master remains and he will dedicate the remainder of his life to keeping the Kogan-swordstyle alive. Maybe open a small Dojo and have a couple of disciples of his own (fingerless spearguy?) The death of Mie will turn him apathetic, bitter and cruel, just like Kogan was. All in all, Shigurui was an enchanting read. I would have read the entire thing in a day if i had the time. The Toad/dickgirl thing is the only downside of the manga i can think of at the moment. It's an interesting side-story, but it really goes nowhere and serves no purpose whatsoever. |
| Here's my theory: When fujiki was ordered to 'desecrate' his opponent's corpse, and he did so even when he didn't want to, showed that fujiki will remain a mindless puppet to whoever's in charge at the time. Mie didn't want to spend the rest of her life with a puppet, and live by the harsh code that she hates so much. So she killed herself, realizing that nothing's gonna change anyway no matter who does what. |
| As for the frog man's story... Lol probably fanservice for some weird individuals. XD |
| Hmmm I'd also like to know what's with the people who complain about the 'pointless/excessive/mindless violence/blood/gore/porn...etc' That's how the story is. It was written/drawn for people who ENJOY that stuff. What? You think the pages will magically change into rainbows and unicorns if you complain enough times? Lol sorry I had to say that. But really now, every time I go to a board about shigurui, these people have to show up. Sigh... |
| ^ lol but yeah it was good story but the ending isn't satisfying . |
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| I just finished reading it and i think that the ending was tilted towards Seigen.. he was blinded but he took his revenge despite his disability by killing every member of the Kogan-ryuu. and his death was jusified because Gennosuke was training his best despite only having a single arm. Gennosuke had become so strong that he was able to over power Seigen in the end and slice through him as well as cutting through the blade. Gennosuke had lost the revenge match as well, so logically he had to win the final match. But its sad that Gennosuke was left alone, in the end it just shows us that he was alone in the beginning and alone in the ending too; while our Seigen was proficient eater of ass. I wish he had a chance to bust a nut with Mie before the match. Possible Epilogue: Gennosuke commits suicide or he becomes a rounin. |
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| Wow, such an unexpected ending. Still great, I would never thought that Mie would do that... Brutal story. |
| The ending really brought it all together for me. I tend to avoid super gory works like these because often times it's thrown in there for gore's sake and not because avoiding it would distract from the storytelling, but I overlooked it here because the progression of the characters was so interesting. The swordsman blinded by ambition was literally blinded, and the samurai whose hands were tied by the warrior's code literally had his arm taken from him. Also, Irako gradually becoming what he despised so he can undermine it was a nice thing to watch. As far as Mie, it's like it was mentioned before. She killed herself once she realized that Gennosuke would always be a puppet who wouldn't act or think for himself, and she couldn't bring herself to fulfill her vow of marrying someone like that. The whole dichotomy between Irako and Gennosuke was great to watch. Both of them came from similar backgrounds, but were completely opposite. Irako, despite being a murderous, treacherous, womanizer (all at the same time, no less) was charming and very sympathetic to the abandoned and shunned, and despised being used by anyone. Gennosuke on the other hand, was stoic, reserved, and had a high degree of integrity, too much in fact. The end did feel a little rushed, but there wasn't much else left to address aside from the frog man. Irako became complacent, and possibly lost some of his desire to kill Gennosuke after realizing their pasts were alike. Gennosuke kept sharpening his skills and seeking a way to combat Irako's techniques. It's no surprise it ended so switftly. The only thing that was really random in this story was miss futanari. That was...out of nowhere (literally). |
| I would have liked to see the other fight, the author introduced a several warriors like the Toadman & the blond dude with the reverse blade, also what happened to Chika? Did Tadanaga killed her? |
| Forever Berserk |
| Mie killed herself because she couldn't stand to watch Fujiki becoming a puppet once again, however, her decision was very selfish and not thought-out. There was just no way he could have said "No" to the Lord of Suroga (Fucking Shogun's brother!), the tanegashima troops would have shot him & his assistant (Mie) like dogs. The man just couldn't sign the death of his love, throw away the Kogan-ryu & the sacrifice of his sword brothers. In the end, he chose the life of his love over his pride as a swordsman, but all she saw was a man becoming once again a puppet and submitting to a Lord. He was indeed a puppet, but this time, Mie was unknowingly his master, and his love for her was the strings. |
TBSMMay 17, 2018 9:40 PM
| Forever Berserk |
| Source BlackRainbow tumblr: https://blackrainbowblade.tumblr.com/post/98540638265/shigurui-ending-explained-many-spoilers |
| Came to the manga after watching the anime and I think the anime made an awesome cut. Sure it looks like the author was kinda lost after the revenge duel, and the frog guy and dick girl felt way out of place, as several characters, in the same way Fujiki and Mie's motivations and personalities were shifting and changing with no consistency. I know the anime came out before the manga was complete, and although being good as it is, it could have used one special to tell the conclusion which was also spectacular. I could not find anything about it in english, but apparently it's true that the tournament existed and it was recorded a fight between a blind and a one-handed samurai, the fight being a lame one where the one-handed guy couldn't hold his world and the blind couldn't aim for the target, and the author created this whole story to show that that battle that really took place wasn't lame at all, but extremelly skillful, and I'm glad it was a short fight because we already had a huge one full of twists in the revenge duel, repeating it would be pointless and tiresome, being it a real fight that existed and looked so dull was the cherry on the cake - meaning that only the ones who knew the story would know how awesome that last fight trully was. And if the anime had an special to show the conclusion, jumping all the shit from Kogan's death till then, Mie's motivation would feel way better, as she only started to recover when Irako showed up again and started killing the disciples and she did trick Fujiki before the fight. btw: Shigurui official translation should be Tits and Bowels. |
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| Absolutely breathtaking first half , rather pointless 2nd half and a rather good ending. I kinda felt as if the series got axed - all characters introduced in 2nd half of the manga ended up having 0 impact on story.. you could easily remove them and start the tournament nearly exactly after the revenge duel, only keeping the few chapters about Fujiki and Mie.. While ending was great - it was also not flawless, but I loved the way you could interpret it how you want - so that was fine by me. Overall 9/10 - could easily be a masterpiece but went slightly downhill as it progressed. |
| Before I start to talk about the last chapter, I suppose it'd be fair to just let this out. The side characters that were introduced in the middle of the story like Chika, Gannosuke, and Sasahara were very interesting ones and it was a shame to see that they ended up being nothing more than pebbles on the side of the road in regards to the primary storyline. It might've been a better move to extend the story by a couple of chapters to conclude the already established side character arcs before having Irako vs Fujiki as the main event. Mie killing herself in the very end was just unfair for Fujiki... Even the one-armed samurai showed utter disgust at the insults they threw at a dead man who was no longer able to defend himself and being forced to chop off Irako's head must have felt like one of the most heinous acts that he had committed. The image of her bethrothed holding her down flashing before her eyes as he did the did was the straw that broke the camel's back which was what's left of her fragile sanity but that begs the question; What else could he have done in the face of someone who was as vile and cruel as Dainagon Tadanaga? No matter what he does, the only two outcomes would either be him losing his life or him losing everything and that's tragic as fuck. This was a spectacular manga. I did not expect to be as hooked as I was to this especially considering the mixed feelings I had towards the anime and its execution the first time I watched it. |
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| One of the best endings I've seen in a manga. First, the fight: I love that it was short and there wasn't 10+ chapters of them clashing it out. Irako had developed a technique specifically for the Kogan school which proved wildly successful, and Fujiki developed a strategy to take him out just as quickly. It was realistic. While Irako lost, Fujiki lost too. This wasn't a sweet victory at all. He was a puppet whose victory rang hollow once he realized that the Lord wanted more amusement and ordered him to do something which made him feel ill. He was trembling, vomiting, and bleeding from his nose (which we've seen him do when he is vehemently opposed to doing something at the behest of his superiors). The only thing to look forward to was Mie, and that too was taking away from him. Not by an assassin or anything, but by her own hands...geez. Now to the Mie speculations/theories. I don't think she was in love with Irako. As someone mentioned: she was crying, what seems to be, tears of joy when he died and her "evil spirit" vanished as a result of his death. What I think happened (based on the panels/flashbacks we're shown) is that the ugly sight of Fujiki reminded her of what she hates the most: a puppet doing what he's told no matter how opposed to it he is. The evidence for this is the panel that was shown of Fujiki holding her down at the command of his master so that she would be raped. The next panel showed the sea shell, that represented her purity, being stained with blood. She didn't lose her will to live because she got revenge, she lost the will to live because the only thing to look forward to is marrying someone whose essence represented everything she hated. And remember, she was willing to kill herself before for this exact reason. Now on to her vision of seeing Fujiki's face cut in half. I simply think this is telling us that he didn't commit suicide, but ultimately accepted the job and died in battle sometime in the future. A servant until the end. |
Horrorreader91Mar 14, 2020 10:58 AM
| I hated the anime before, and the manga didn't change my mind whatsoever (infact its even worse with the 2nd half). This entire story just never clicked with me whatsoever, from the start till the end, and I didn't like the art that much too. Disappointed. |
| I was really confused about why Mei committed suicide until I read the replies on this forum. Anyway, the final battle was just disappointing. I wasn't expecting the same intensity as the first revenge battle but I do wish the fight had gone on for a bit longer. I thought I was pretty used to violence and gore but this manga showed me that I probably haven't even seen 1% of how depraved and gory some pieces of media can get. I'm giving this a 7/10. It was pretty good until the first revenge battle but gets waaaayyyy too sidetracked and then it felt rushed when it ended. |
| Entertaining manga , there was some needless filler , but great ending. That was absolutely brutal for Gennosuke , he lost everything. |
| They really hit us with the Yu Yu Hakusho rushed ass tournament ending 1st half of the series was really good, then the story starts falling off after Iraku kills Kogan. I think if the tournament arc started right there instead of the revenge duel and all the bullshit that came after it and we got 40+ chapters all focused on the tournament and seeing all the fights, this could’ve been great. the whole 2nd half was just Fujiki & Mie acting like some fuckin dweebs and the author deciding to give us a headache with all this info dump and introducing us to a 100 random ass side characters and their long ass names that nobody can remember and their backstories and none of that shit mattered at all in the end fuck was the point. i wanted to see toadman vs dick girl smh why tf would you show me something if I couldn’t have it then |
| Floyd Mayweather English Tutor |
| I really wanted more on the frog guy and the girl with super-strength... I was enjoying that side story until it ended abruptly though the manga was really brutal, there's really no happy ending for anyone... hell, no happy anything just the crushing feeling of hopelessness which was refreshing. I like how everyone seems to have their own theories on why Mie killed herself and I'm definitely on team 'she killed herself because she won't marry a puppet' because that makes the most sense from what we've seen throughout the manga. |
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