| Glad I pre-ordered mine now. I'm not too glad with some of the translation choices, but every official English release has something that irks me. I wish the translators had played Mirror-Moon's F/SN, haha. That is, if it was a NA firm who did the TLing. Imagine if they had made it less expensive, and or at least done a proper re-master. |
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| Just burn it on a blu-ray or dvd . Don't worry about my future, it's far better than those who waste money just to have the official box and disks. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not again collecting stuff but with price like these it's like throwing money outside your windows. |
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| Internet doesn't cost 400$, it's 100 time cheaper and you can get all anime. You can't even compare them. Plus Internet isn't only for downling anime you know :) |
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Onibokusu said: So your answer is to laugh at those who aren't privileged enough to be able to blow money on mere entertainment? I guess us poor folk should just be denied any form of distractions because we are, you know, poor and insignificant.MadDogV2 said: No. No, no, NO NOOO! Thank you losers with money to burn, you're telling them it's ok to charge such a ridiculous price. You wanna know why anime is so damn expensive? Because you idiots continue to buy it anyways! Vote with your wallets people... Sounds like someone is just sore he/she couldn't buy the set be he/she doesn't have such an income to be able to afford it. Poor you. |
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| Leon-Gun : In the end, they wasted 400$ and us poor folk didn't, but we still watched it :DD |
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Onibokusu said: Oh I'm hurt. Considering you are just 18 you know all about having a job and living on your own.Leon-Gun said: So your answer is to laugh at those who aren't privileged enough to be able to blow money on mere entertainment? I guess us poor folk should just be denied any form of distractions because we are, you know, poor and insignificant. Maybe if you worked for it and didn't fall back on piracy you'd have the ability to buy such rare, expensive collections. I'll continue laughing at you now. |
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| I'm impressed that it actually sold out so quickly. I only read the summaries of Garden of the Sinners when I came across this set while looking for something to write about on my blog. When my post went up (4th image down) there were 30 copies left on Rightstuf less than 24 hours ago, now they're all gone. Personally, I wouldn't be willing budget $400 toward such an expensive Blu-ray import. I'm just not a hardcore enough collector and $100 toward any box set is my limit. Really it's not that hard to come up with $400 especially if you have decent lines of credit or a decent job (or jobs). As for people who can't fathom why anyone would pay $400 for a import box set, the concept of being a collector is clearly lost on you. If $400 blows your mind, you ought to see what people are willing to pay for old video games. |
 |  . |
| Will you pay $400 for this upscale job using MS Paint? If that level of upscale quality is throughout the series, then you're better off just watching the DVD version on your HDTV using a blu-ray player. UFOTABLE is doing the blu-ray industry a disservice! Or they're hoping that we're stupid fans with horrible eyesights. |
| ^Relax, she's just ctrl c ctrl v what she has read throughout the internet. Anyway, I'm amazed they actually BUYED the box with such a price. Someday, when the price gets near something normal, I'll buy it. |
Onibokusu said: Looking at screenshots floating around, the BD is rather blurry, with horrible line darkening in some places. Still sharper than the DVD with less compression artifacts, but certainly not something I'd waste $400 on. Seems like a certain ripper run some light sharpening filter and light line thinning on his encode, and that rip looks better than the BD, and certainly doesn't cost anywhere near $400 to get. And increased bitrate != better, I can reencode the DVD @ 40Mbps bitrate and get a ridiculously huge bitrate but it's still DVD quality.The sharper image, increased bitrate |
silver_huskey said: Man I used to own SNES games, I sold them for like... I think I gave them away actually. LOL. Don't know if I could have sold them crazy to idiots who collect them. |
SuperSaiyenFeb 7, 2011 5:04 AM
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| well that sure was a surprised |
Onibokusu said: Leon-Gun said: Oh I'm hurt. Considering you are just 18 you know all about having a job and living on your own. Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware my age constituted my ability to have a job, hence my ability to make money, and my living environment. Nice job stereotyping bro. Cut the shit dude. If you already have a nice high paying job by 18 is because you are little rich kid with parents who know other rich people and gave you a nice little rich kid job. Most probably your parents pay all the pills and you have money to throw. Stop trying to act like you know what surviving struggle is. |
| This must be depressing news for sakugafags. |
Onibokusu said: First things first, 5Mbps bitrate on H.264 codec looks a lot more better than 5Mbps on MPEG2 codec used in DVDs, providing the encoder doesn't use terrible filtering. Heck, 5Mbps bitrate 1080p Blu Ray rip with H.264 can look as good as the original source.*Clap clap clap* A high bitrate coming right from the master means less of a chance for sacrificed quality, as opposed to a 4-5 Mbps bitrate on a DVD release. I thought you, of all people, would have known that. You wouldn't spend $400 on something that looks better than the DVD release? Well, golly gee. Second, one can use half or less of bitrate used in the Blu Ray to make a video quality with the same perceived quality (or in some cases, a competent encoder can actually make it look even better, still at half or less of the BD's bitrate). Half of the bitrate is already pretty overkill btw. Third, you're only addressing the part of the bitrate, which is pretty much only countering your statement that higher bitrate is better, for which I state that it's not always the case, by providing an example of a case where it won't. You forgot the part about how the Blu Ray had horrible line darkening at places. But enough of this encoding talk, it's pretty off topic here. Feel free to write on my profile if you still have something to say about encoding that you think you need to say to me. Of course I wouldn't spend $400, I'm the type of person who will spend additional cost only if the amount spent is justifiable with the amount of improvements I get. Certainly, the amount of improvements I see is nowhere near $400, even more so when a 'free' alternative exists that fixes the flaws in the $400 option. |
RedSuiseiFeb 7, 2011 4:42 PM
| $300 for a movie? $300? You could buy a PS3 or HDTV with that much money. |
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Onibokusu said: Yep, I admit that much. But whether that quality loss is visible to human eyes is a completely different thing. Maybe it does look different if you compare every single pixel in every single frame, but why would anyone do that? As you said down a couple paragraph down below, anime is moving media, and certainly, quality loss resulting from proper encoding look a lot less noticeable than that horrid line darkening.Yes, but that's still a secondary encoding. H.264 is hardly lossless. A 25MBps Blu-Ray taken from a master, even if it's an upscale, will still suffer from less quality loss than a rip taken from that Blu-Ray. You have to admit that much. Onibokusu said: True, bitrate is different than the filters used, then again, that doesn't change the fact that a proper filter can fix issues found on the original source. Take example in this case. One only needs to give half or less the bitrate to get the exact same perceived quality. But no, I don't want the exact same quality, I want it better. So a certain encoder out there run some filters to fix the issues found here, and voila! It looks better, and it only needs less than half the bitrate. Oh, and you might notice that the encoder for the actual Blu Ray must have also used filters to make the Blu Ray 'faux-superior', which he/she/they failed btw with that terrible filter choice.Bitrate is completely different to filters used by encoders to make a release look faux-superior. Offhanded statements like "Half of the bitrate is already pretty overkill btw" make no sense either. What is that based upon, the "we'll never need more than *insert item here* because this works for us now" argument used by Bill Gates those many years ago? Onibokusu said: Nah, I never once stated that the DVDs are better, I even said that the Blu Ray, although it's severely lacking for a Blu Ray, still look overall better than the DVDs. As I said, I only stated that higher bitrate is not always better, so using higher bitrate to make a point is rather moot.I can make it on-topic. If we compare the Blu-Ray release to the DVD release of the Garden of Sinners collection, the superior bit-rate shows an obvious superiority over the DVD release (many have claimed that they'd rather buy the DVD release, claiming it to be 'the same thing'). Higher bitrate may not always be better, true, but in this case it is. Onibokusu said: Probably not to you, but as someone who have done much encoding myself, stuff like that is really noticeable. Also you're forgetting that this anime, and just about any anime, also have a lot of stills, and slow-moving scenes. Only times these might not be noticeable might be during fast-actions scenes, which doesn't constitute the whole movies. Stills and slow moving scenes, and I'd bet they'd look like a sore thumb. Also, refer back to my argument about quality loss in DVD. "What is the likelihood of noticing these quality drop in the reencode when the animation is moving at 24fps?" Same can be said to your claims, actually.Your claim about the darkened lines is bordering on the semantics. It can be covered by my line of argument about haloing, which is something a few Q-TEC upscales suffer from. It's a very minor detail that you'll probably only notice in stills (note how I said stills). If anime were a medium that was conveyed in a single frame, like a painting or photo, that may be a big downside. However, it isn't. What is the likelihood of noticing these darkened lines when the animation is moving at 24fps? About as much as noticing haloing. Oh, and from my encoding experience, bad lines are much more noticeable than haloing. Onibokusu said: Depends. I got the DVD for this, and although it looks worse than the BD, the price is more justifiable. Point is, this boxset doesn't deserve $400, especially seeing that a lot of other BD with better quality than this are actually cheaper.Oh, come on. You wouldn't buy it even if it was $150, or $100. Your 'free alternative' exists in both those scenarios. Onibokusu said: You can do a lot more with a PS3 than with 8 movies. I can play stuff for several years with a PS3, but I only got several hours of movies with this boxset.Ahem, that's 8 movies. Not one. |
RedSuiseiFeb 7, 2011 7:03 PM
Onibokusu said: Not only stills, slow-motion scenes are still pretty noticable. Heck, even other videos with slight aliasing or warpsharping can be noticed pretty clearly, so I don't see why you think terribly thickened lines like here won't be noticeable. I did get a BDMV, and seen that it is indeed quite noticeable.But the dark lining is hardly noticable, because when you've seen the dark lining you're only looking at stills. Have you viewed a continuous scene from the Blu-Ray set? They aren't that noticable. Onibokusu said: Of course it's not, it's an upscaling process, which also includes several filters added to make video look 'better.' Otherwise, how would you explain the terrible line darkening? As far as I've seen, even resizing 480p to 1080p with Spline36, although it does look more blurry and has ringing introduced to it, doesn't make the line thicker. And while it's true that filtering to fix the line darkening applies to the whole movie, filtering to do the line darkening in the first place also applies to the whole movie.Q-TEC isn't a filtering process. More so, adding filters to correct certain small issues in certain scenes can lead to issues being present in other scenes. Remember, the encoder is filtering the entirety of the films. Onibokusu said: Not really, I've seen several motion scenes on it. And unless for the really fast-moving action scenes, the botched lines are pretty noticeable. And I can't really see how it is valid to use against me, since I've pretty much explained that there are scenes with pretty noticeable bad lines.I have also dealt in encoding a fair bit myself. A/V is somewhat of an interest of mine. You're basing your entire argument on a small selection of stills, then trying to judge the entire set based upon those few frames. True, my quote is indeed a double-edged sword, however it's still a very valid counter-point to your semantics. Onibokusu said: Does that change that I can do a lot more with it?Apples and oranges mate, apples and oranges. They serve completely different purposes, don't forget that. As far as justification goes, it IS a personal thing, so I guess you can be happy with what you purchased since you can justify it, and I can laugh at you since you just waste $400 (or however much is it you spent for it) while I still got that cash saved for something more justifiable. You can also laugh at me for not having such an expensive collection though, no problem. |
RedSuiseiFeb 7, 2011 7:30 PM
Onibokusu said: Maybe you're right. It's hardly comparable since it sticks out like a sore thumb more.We're getting to the point of you're being you, and I'm being me. The dark lining is hardly comparable to slight aliasing or warpsharping. Onibokusu said: Well, if it is, then it still looks shitty :) And then if it is, I do need to give ufotable less respect for keeping a terrible master with horrrible, unnaturally thick lines with severe aliasing on many parts instead of doing a remaster/reanimation. Though, anyway, any encoder who have used plenty Avisynth filters can see they run a line darkener, what with the severe aliasing problems on some scenes, and unnatural thick lines (unless, you're going to speculate that those lines with severe aliasing problem and unnatural thick lines are in the master, which makes the master pretty shitty and in dire need of remastering/reanimating). At the very least they can do if they're gonna use a line darkener, is to limit the maximum thickness, and use some supersampling.Have you ever considered that the dark lines were like that in the first place and it was originally an error that caused them to not be as dark? (Similar to the Blu-Ray release of Serial Experiments Lain, wherein the off-colour look of the anime was caused by an encoding error when they were authoring the DVDs). Like, perhaps, the original releases were actually brighter than they were supposed to be. All we're doing here is speculating, both you and I. Onibokusu said: Certainly not. As I said, the line darkening filter is also applied globally, thus it also affects the entire film, so those thick lines you mentioned most likely aren't that thick in the master anyway. Oh, and what I mentioned earlier, it doesn't "brighten" the image, it sharpens them, where bright colors are brighter and dark colors are darker. Most likely LSF or something similar, or maybe supersampled Unfilter. And I believe that 'sharper' was one of your arguments why the BD looks better than the DVD, no? Of course, it's not "true to the source", if that's the type of person you are, but I'd bet the Blu Ray itself doesn't look anything like the master.Because brightening the footage and thinning out the lines also effects the entire film, thus making darker scenes and animation that is supposed to have thick lining look off as well. I checked out the most popular Kara no Kyoukai encode that has the filters in it that you specified. And, you might want to learn things a little bit. Reason why Q-tec is so hated is not because they upscale the video as is, it's because they also tend to use excessive warpsharpening and denoiser that lines and background details are lost in the process. So yeah, Q-tec does use filtering, unlike what you claim earlier. In this case though, it seems the upscaling process doesn't use warpsharen nor heavy denoiser, but in exchange it uses excessive linedarkening without supersampling, which results in the eye-cancer. Am I speculating? Maybe, but so do you. At the very least, with me speculating I can get something that looks better, and doesn't cost me $400. Of course my speculation is based on my eyes and my encoding experience. But it seems like several highly experienced encoders agree with me though. Not that it makes it 100% correct, but certainly more reliable. Onibokusu said: Because there's no way I have another collection you don't know of that I might spent that $400 on? Though really, if all this encoding stuff you mentioned is just an attempt to make yourself feel good about your purchase, then by all means think so. After all, who am I to force you to dislike those unnaturally thick, aliased lines? If you like it, good for you. I will still have something that look better in my eyes anyway, and can still spend that $400 on something else.You're too right, I do have quite a collection. Although I don't see how you'd think I'd wasted it, considering I can make that money again. I did spend that $400 with the purpose of buying Kara no Kyoukai, unlike you who is seeing it as just spending $400 (thus, for you, it has no purpose and is merely $400). Mind continuing on my profile? This really gets off-topic, unless for some reason you want to be an attention-whore and show everyone just how much your knowledge and just how true you are about the great QUALITY of this BD. |
RedSuiseiFeb 7, 2011 11:53 PM
Onibokusu said: Aw shucks, you caught us.That's almost ad hominem, because if I did continue the argument here you'd just claim I was some sort of an attention whore trying to justify a purchase. |
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| Does anyone know/think this will be back in stock eventually? And do the original dvds have english subtitles or no? |
| I just got a message back from Right Stuf about the boxsets coming back in stock, and this is what they said: "Thank you for contacting us. Aniplex of America gave us a limited number of the Garden of Sinners Blu-ray sets, and unfortunately, we have run out. We don't anticipate receiving more copies. I apologize for the inconvenience." So, looks like I missed out on this one. |
Anjira said: I just got a message back from Right Stuf about the boxsets coming back in stock, and this is what they said: "Thank you for contacting us. Aniplex of America gave us a limited number of the Garden of Sinners Blu-ray sets, and unfortunately, we have run out. We don't anticipate receiving more copies. I apologize for the inconvenience." So, looks like I missed out on this one. I'm going to cry... I want this on my shelf so badly I'd be willing to pay the retail of $600 at this point. $400 is a steal for this in my view, but I had no idea they were going to release this in NA. Are they still making this version in Japan? I wouldn't mind buying one without the translation booklet. |
| I thought what i'd do was your mother |
hogkill said: I'm going to cry... I want this on my shelf so badly I'd be willing to pay the retail of $600 at this point. $400 is a steal for this in my view, but I had no idea they were going to release this in NA. Are they still making this version in Japan? I wouldn't mind buying one without the translation booklet. Your best shot would be Japanese Amazon for now. I'm so glad I ordered my own from Rightstuf at the beginning of February and it's on it's way now. I excepted it would be sold out. |
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| $300/8 (7 + epilogue(i guess)) = ~$35/movie some of these "movies" are only 40 minutes long and its not even dubbed...i like KnK but i think im gonna wait for individual bds |
| I admit this Anime was awesome but 300 dollars...? I don't think any Anime series is worth that much. |
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OriginANIME said: I admit this Anime was awesome but 300 dollars...? I don't think any Anime series is worth that much. Well in the US that is considered expensive unless your talking about CCS or Sailor Moon the Out of Print DVDs go for almost $1,000 each for the complete series in singles since they never released the series in boxed sets. Also in Japan the boxsets are anywhere $300~$800 for 12~24 episodes. Cause both Clannad series limited edition complete collections with eng.subs are almost near $800 for each. |
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character lol! xD" |
agnethafan said: Apparently to buy Card Captor Sakura bluray is over $1000.................... ........................... edit: oh haha, someone above me already mentioned this :P Wish Sailor Moon was on bluray sometimes, but I can imagine the price....! lol actually I was talking about the uncut subbed dvds of CCS that Geneon USA distributed back in I think maybe 2002? Although CCS on Bluray would be nice though. |
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character lol! xD" |
BlackSnake56 said: $300 It costed this much?! |
| That's completely out of my reach, but I'm glad that quality sells. Hoping the previously-massacre-censored-fanservicefest BDs crashed down so people will consider to create more quality instead. |
| stupid question, but i need som clarification, when they say $300, do they mean for ONE dvd a.k.a this 1st movie, or is it all of it together?? |
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