Criticisms about dubs that made you want to slap your forehead and go, "what the f*** are you talking about?!"
| Ever had one of those moments where someone criticized a dub and you felt like wanting to knock some sense into them? Well not in the violent sense, but you felt as if there are some things people who bash dubs plain don't get. I'm pretty sure anyone who has been self-aware of the whole everlasting sub v.s dubs war has experienced at least ONE of those situations. Well now this thread is your official rant corner for just that sort of thing. So drop an argument, a complaint, some f-bombs, mix with some death threats (okay I'm only kidding about the "death threat" part), and then you have your recipe for an "anti-dub rant." And it can be about anything. It can even be about actors or studios that you personally feel don't deserve the complaints they get. I'll be the first to go. One thing I want to set straight that comes to mind is the "cast fatigue argument." The whole, "I'm tired of hearing the same 10 actors in many dubs I hear." First of all, why don't you just watch a show you like that doesn't have that actor you heard a lot lately. If you're tired of hearing Vic Mignogna or Todd Haberkorn in everything, then don't freaking listen to a Funimation dub for a while. Instead do your research by checking that actor's profile, see what dub he/she hasn't been in and watch a dub that actor hasn't been in! Hell, go back and watch a dub you haven't heard of in years, if it means not dealing with repetition. Vic Mignogna isn't in Rurouni Kenshin, so listen to freaking that! Second, so what if you can recognize the actor's voice? So freakin' what?! It's not just about if an actor can try a totally different voice! The point of an actor's voice is to convey a character coming to life vocally and help the audience believe in that character vocally. And the go-to argument is Johnny Yong Bosch or Vic Mignogna on Adult Swim, back-to-back! If you can tell the difference between how Ichigo acts and how Lelouche acts, and if you can tell the difference between how Yoshimori and how Edward acts, then those actors did a good job doing their job. Voice acting isn't so much about can you identify the actor behind the voice as much as it is can you identify the character behind the voice. I can understand how it's easy to immediately think of the actor behind the voice, but just try to think of the character more often. And what's so dumb about this is that they demand the actor to sound different, which they could easily do if they applied a silly uncommon accent in a dub. But fans don't freakin' want that! No! Fans act so rigid, demanding fidelity at the same time. And third, there are a few valid reasons this happens. The first reason being that if you want dubs coming out as soon as possible, but as efficiently as possible, then veteran actors who you hear a thousand times are the go-to option. The second reason being that it's cheaper and less time-consuming to hire actors within the same state than in another state. And what the fans who demand high quality dubs need to understand is that even if extra time and money is added, how is it gonna pay off once the anime is released on DVD? People make it sound like "a dub has to be perfect or no one is gonna buy it!" None of that would matter if the DVD won't sell well anyway. As much as I believe a dub should be of good quality, the people that make it sound like a dub can determine whether a show will sell well are ultimately the minority. |
| I'm just the opposite with voice actors. I love hearing an actor I recognize because I have no interest in Hollywood or any American pop culture and therefore I very rarely recognize any American actors/actresses/whatever the hell mainstream people talk about. I'm not in a rage-rant mood right now, but I am a bit annoyed at someone I was speaking to earlier who, before now, hasn't had an opinion on subs or dubs. Out of the blue today, he asked me why I didn't watch subbed anime. I said, one, because I can't multitask - subtitles demand my total, undivided attention; and two, I miss a lot of details with my eyes glued to the bottom of the screen - it's much easier to split the work between my eyes and ears than it is to have my eyes frantically darting up and down for 20 minutes. "Right, you wouldn't want to miss a second of that lush animation." "Is that sarcasm?" "Yes. Yes it is." "I don't want to miss it. =|" "Even in action-y anime (oxymoron) you won't miss much detail from it." "One, action anime is hardly an oxymoron, and two, you kind of miss a lot. A lot a lot. You've seen Excel Saga - that's not action-y at all, and I'm sure you can imagine how much fun it would be trying to keep up with the speech in that series. Plus the three characters talking in the background. And any text on the screen." "No. Not really. I prefer subbed. I can't multitask with subbed, so I have to pay attention." "Watching a long shonen series I've already seen twice before pretty much requires me to multitask. If I weren't doing anything else, it would bore me. Sometimes I like to watch something I don't really have to think about, if that's all right with you." "If I were watching any anime dubbed I'd get bored." I'm a bit peeved at the moment, but that's about it. >_> |
| Well, I have one friend who hates dubs with a passion. Basically, he considers japanese VA's on par with Disney dubs(which is absolutely ludicrous considering Japan has some of the WORST acting talent in the world). Every time we debate about it I get hot with anger, as he consistently calls me an idiot for saying mostly English dubs are superior in terms of acting talent. Not only that, but his argument for Japanese VA's being better is that anime is a huge part of the culture over there, and thus they HAVE to be good(rather than saying they're just better). That's not true at all because, like I said, Japan is terrible in terms of acting talent. There are of course exceptions to bad acting in Japan, but it's hard to come across. |
| I'd say it's about as much a part of their culture as American animation is in ours. Regular people know enough about it, but they rarely bring it up in a dinner conversation or anything. I don't know that Japanese acting is the worst in the world - I don't really think it's bad, even. I just think English voice acting tends to be better. Why? Who's to say. Maybe it's because anime is even more niche here in the States, so the people who choose to work in the industry have to be passionate about it. It's an uncommon-er interest. |
| I disagree with just the essence of the dub being the one and only important factor. I think the translation should be as accurate and true to the original scripted dialogue as possible, and only modified enough to flow smoothly and naturally in the English language. I'm not okay with any content being lost in translation. And OTT = Over the top? |
| My big complaint about other peoples' complaints are that they bitch and moan that dubs change the dialogue too much. When you're translating Japanese dialogue into english, certain liberties have to be taken in order for the translation to even make sense. That, and I've switch audio tracks several times with different series, and the sentences really aren't all that different, and it's not even worth nitpicking over either. Also, the 'same actor' complaint is a rather moot thing. As I believe that's more of a budget concern than anything. I can't imagine Funimation has the money to able to afford the voices of such actors as Christian Bale, or Willem Dafoe. Of course you're going to hear familiar voices, you will also hear familiar voice actors in the original Japanese too. |
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| If anything I think a lot of the Japanese voices sound virtually identical, regardless of how many there may or may not be. If I closed my eyes and listened to Bleach's Japanese audio, I would have no clue who was talking or when, even being familiar with the Japanese voices. |
XTApocalypse said: If anything I think a lot of the Japanese voices sound virtually identical, regardless of how many there may or may not be. If I closed my eyes and listened to Bleach's Japanese audio, I would have no clue who was talking or when, even being familiar with the Japanese voices. You also wouldn't understand what the fuck they are saying XD. |
| That too, of course. I'm just saying for the sake of actor versatility/ability. |
| I really hate when people say the dub isn't properly translated, because they assume the fansub they watched which had lots of swearing is 100% correct. I could bring up a whole list of things these anti-dub people come up with that makes me slap my head, but I'm feeling calm right now and don't wanna ruin that. |
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| I often get the feeling that fansubbers are putting in obscenities themselves to make the dub look cut or kiddy or however they can make it look to support their groundless anti-dub claims. I don't speak Japanese, so I can't prove it, but that's my gut feeling when I'm reading them. Then again, Sonic X comes to mind - I just don't know if it's an example or if it's the exception. If it's the former, then American companies really don't have any choice but to tone down their more kiddy... wait, what am I saying? They released Naruto uncut. So much for everything I just said. =| |
| I don't know if any of you are masochistic enough to read this, but... here you go. =/ |
| I commented on his profile, hopefully I get into a fun debate with this idiot. |
| I admittedly poked fun at him. He didn't seem to grasp that that's what I was doing, though. |
| I thought the all caps would have made it clear that I was joking when I typed that. |
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| You'd be surprised how many members of this site would write something like that in all seriousness. If it was sarcastic, then I apologize for chastising you, but considering how quickly everyone assumed the worst I think it's safe to say that your message wasn't all that apparent. |
| "I hate dubs because they always edit the anime" Ugh @ Hypeathon first post: Oh my god! Thank You for putting what I've been feeling in a coherent sentence RogueAngelX said: (which is absolutely ludicrous considering Japan has some of the WORST acting talent in the world) For the most part: Neither Japanese or American is inherently superior or inferior. I think it has more to do that what is good acting is differs between the regions. Though I must say I disagree with the whole "worst acting talent in the world". XTApocalypse said: I often get the feeling that fansubbers are putting in obscenities themselves to make the dub look cut or kiddy or however they can make it look to support their groundless anti-dub claims. I don't speak Japanese, so I can't prove it, but that's my gut feeling when I'm reading them. I was always skeptical about obscenities in translations. On one hand people always said that the dub/ official subs takes out the curse words then in the same breathe stated that there are no curse words in the Japanese language. Huh? |
coolcatJan 20, 2011 10:30 PM
 Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness bringing torment and pain to others, oh damned soul wallowing in your sin...perhaps it is time to die |
| From what I have seen, Japan has some pretty terrible actors. I am talking about non-anime movies, though. If there is one thing they do well is looking dead, and I'm not joking about that. |
RogueAngelX said: From what I have seen, Japan has some pretty terrible actors. I am talking about non-anime movies, though. If there is one thing they do well is looking dead, and I'm not joking about that. Since we are talking about anime, I assumed that you were talking about voice actors. Even though I now realize that we are not, I still think they're not. And still refer to the difference in what is good acting. Though I do think that Japanese live-action acting can be really over the top, which I don't like. |
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness bringing torment and pain to others, oh damned soul wallowing in your sin...perhaps it is time to die |
| There are some truly fantastic Japanese VAs. Usagi's VA in Sailor Moon comes to mind, she's brilliant. And holy crap Hias, I totally thought you were serious about hating dubs and dub lovers. It wasn't until I read a little farther down in the comments that I saw your post here. lol. Ok, the worst comment I've seen was on a review for the Samurai X OVAs. I posted it to the group earlier, but I'll say it again. "Oh, and those of you who watch anime dubbed know you're not real anime fans, right?" Or something really close to that. I wanted to reach through the screen and knock some sense into them. Unfortunately the best I could do was give the review a negative rating. |
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JTurner said: I didn't think the dub for that title was particularly good, however a comment like that is absolutely inappropriate and asinine in the extreme. NOBODY should have the right to criticize others how they should define themselves as fans.... I agree, I didn't even finish the OVAs. Although that was simply because I didn't like them. But the VAs weren't great. |
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| they bitch about: anime dvds having an english dub (even though there's a japanese track as well) saying japan has the greatest voice actors ever (that's subjective, but also a huge overstatement, japan has shitty VAs as well) english dubs ALWAYS edit content (unless it was the 80s and 90s and 4kids) change the script (mostly to match the lip flaps, but that's really not all that true) english VAs can't act (AGAIN subjective and an overstatement) japanese VAs have more vocal range (so do english VAs) english VAs are in it for the money (i've heard that once in a youtube video and i HIGHLY doubt johnny yong bosch, crispin freeman, wendee lee and the like only do it to fill their pockets) why are dub haters complete dumbasses? |
"everyone knows that the last toes are always the coldest to go." Telavators-the mars volta |
JTurner said: NOBODY should have the right to criticize others how they should define themselves as fans. I don't completely agree with this. I've always thought that anyone who skips episodes in a series just because they're ill repute and/or filler doesn't deserve to be called a fan, and I stand by it. :P I didn't think the Rurouni Kenshin/Samurai X OVA's had bad dubs at all, personally. I thought they were just as good as the final dub of the series. Unless you're talking about some Animax dubs I don't know about or something. |
XTApocalypse said: ...I didn't think the Rurouni Kenshin/Samurai X OVA's had bad dubs at all, personally. I thought they were just as good as the final dub of the series. Unless you're talking about some Animax dubs I don't know about or something. The OVA's weren't terrible, I think for me personally, I just missed the old VAs. Oh and as for the Animax dub, there is one. (I'm pretty sure it's animax) You should find it just so you can see a bad dub! They changed Kaoru's name to Kerrie and Kenshins name to... Kenshee I think. Something like that. The voice actors themselves aren't bad, but the name changes... Ugh. |
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| I thought it was Cory and Kenny. I was talking about an Animax dub of the OVA's you're talking about, though. I already know there was one of the main series. Animax dub of the series Modern dub of the series Modern dub of both OVA's #2 and #3 both use the same voice actors, so I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with them. Unless, of course, there was an Animax dub of both OVA's, in which case there would be something to complain about. That's what I was asking. |
XTApocalypse said: I thought it was Cory and Kenny. Yes, that's right! |
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| @ XTA: No, the OVAs had different VAs from the Media Blasters' dub of television series. The OVAs and movie were licensed by a different company, ADV Films, and used Monster Island for the ADR Recording or Dubbing. And I thought Samurai X OVA had some pretty bad acting mostly from Tomoe, but I think the Movie was pretty good. I need to rewatch it though. |
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness bringing torment and pain to others, oh damned soul wallowing in your sin...perhaps it is time to die |
| ... was Kenshin's actor the same in both versions? I guess he was the only character who was in both the series and the prequel OVA. If it wasn't the same actor, I guess I just didn't notice, then. Huh. Maybe I overlooked it because it was a younger Kenshin or something. I don't know, I only saw part of one of the OVA's once a good year or so ago. It can't be as bad as Yu Yu Hakusho was, though. The series and both movies were all licensed by three different companies, and each one had a different dub cast. The series's dub is god-like, the second movie's is meh, and the first one was so unbelievably terrible that I thought I had gotten a fandub the first time I saw it. In fact, I think a fandub with even a little effort could have turned out better than the first movie's dub. It was just that awful. =| |
| Richard Cansino or Richard Hayworth or whatever he's calling himself now played Kenshin in the series. J. Shanon Weaver played him in the OVAs and movies. Surpisingly the Animax and Bang Zoom! dub shares Richard as the voice of the leading man. But I'm pretty sure everyone else is different. |
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness bringing torment and pain to others, oh damned soul wallowing in your sin...perhaps it is time to die |
| "Dubs are for the Illiterate" I heard this. It pissed me off! |
 Stop. Calm yourself. You're an idiot. |
| Subs are for the deaf. /same logic |
| Well people that are hard of seeing do prefer having a dub option. I think it be the same for the hard of hearing with subs. Not sure if that's the same logic because they're seriously people who have that kind of impairment. Illiterate thing is just because people are jerks trying to imply dub-prefers are idiots as oppose to handicapped. |
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness bringing torment and pain to others, oh damned soul wallowing in your sin...perhaps it is time to die |
| It was a joke, Coolcat. XD "Subs are for people who don't care about attention to detail" was a little too wordy. |
| The sad thing is most people watch TV in their native language. Are the Japanese illiterate because they want to watch a show in their naive language. Do English-speaker automatically go illiterate when the go watch Toy Story. Though watching television and movie in general is seen by some as made for the lowest common denominator among us. Not sure why just because you are watching such things in another language removes one from such stereotypes or have a right to put it on others. Anyway I also don't think some dub-prefers help much because I notice a lot of time they say something around the lines of "I watch dubs because I don't like/ want/ feel like reading subtitles." God, I hate coming across that kind of stuff. |
coolcatJan 23, 2011 10:12 PM
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness bringing torment and pain to others, oh damned soul wallowing in your sin...perhaps it is time to die |
JTurner said: But yes, I HAVE been called that, as well as a "troll", "retard", "annoying", "Disney whore", and lots of other insults just because I like dubs and don't think they are bad. It's even more frustrating to me when those naysayers try to push their view on me and say that I should not even have my own point of view. Why expose yourself to it, then? From your tone it sounds like you're really, really on-edge. I don't even bother with any anime clubs, forums, or discussions outside this one and a couple inactive ones that I started, but that's just me. Quite frankly the only reason I socialize at all is because I have no other means to kill time with. @coolcat: Yes, it's a pain when people confirm stereotypes and undo the work that someone has put into absolving them. >_> That I know all too well. Granted, I think that's the reason that anyone doesn't watch something subbed, it just needs to be... well, better argued, to have a positive impact. |
| I was just checking out someone's profile and they just so happen to have this rant I think everyone should read. Keep in mind that I myself have no problem with dubs or subs however, the person who wrote this does have a strong view towards subs. "as all of you know. There has been a war, an ongoing war between dub lovers and sub lovers. The dub fuckers think that anime in english is okay but its not. Anime has always been supposed to have been watched in its original japanese with english subtitles. Why? Cuz the performances are always so much better! Cant you idiots see this?! So I'm typing this today to let you dub fuckers know that we, the superior sub lovers will always win this argument cuz as I pointed it's natural and it's the way anime should be watched do you fuckin understand or what!? The japanese language will always be the better of the two. In fact, its even inspired me to take up japanese as a second language! My dream is to perfect the language and watch all of my anime raw, straight out of tokyo baby. Dat way I can get it before anyone else, and learn a lot of new and super cool things about Japans culture. Because japan has always had the best culture in the world! I hope I made that perfectly clear, so, dub fuckers, stay the hell away from me and my profile cuz I watch all my anime, completely subbed." |
| That's Hias. I linked to his profile earlier in this thread, and he says that it's supposed to be sarcasm. Not many people seem to pick up on it, though, so you're not alone. |
| oh my bad it seems pretty convincing to me hahaha |
| haha, I did the same thing, BigLanik. I was so irritated when I read that, and then they joined the group. Seriously,it's been said a lot, but we need a sarcasm font. |
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JTurner said: Anyone who tells you otherwise is just not worth dealing with. (Or entitled to opinions) Akira: Pretty average dub to me, but there are two dubs, so it depends on which you watched. Yu-Gi-Oh!: I hate the dub, but I'm watching it right now anyway. Yu Yu Hakusho: Greatest dub in the history of ever. Very rarely do dubs cut content unless they're being modified for a TV broadcast (which is increasingly rare these days) and/or 4Kids is involved, though. They're the ones who dubbed Yu-Gi-Oh!, along with Sonic X, the first version of One Piece, and countless others left in the wake of their destruction. I don't know if they dubbed Sailor Moon or not, but I know it was modified for way back when it aired on Toonami, and an uncut dub was never made. Naruto was cut and edited for its run on Cartoon Network, but the DVD's were still released uncut and intact. |
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