Forums

If I remember correctly at the end of EP7 there were some quite random quick flashes of random facts, one was that the baby that fell down from the cliff (that turned out to be Yasu/Sh/Kanon/Beato) got a serious injury at his/her reproductive organs. So after the fall s/he is now neither. Although I'm guessing she was a girl originally, or at least she considers herself a girl most of the time. (Remeber Yasu was first Shanon and Beato, and became Kanon later on. Not to mention the cousins noticed how Shanon was - how do I say this - well developed quite early.)


Now... about Ange and Battler being delusional... If you consider their "delusions" only delusions, then the there is a problem. How come they had the same delusions? I'm not talking about the general ideas, characters of the meta world, Battler got them from Beato and Ange got them from Maria's diary. But how they interacted with each other in the Meta World? Or we should consider every meta part where Ange was present is only Ange's delusion? That could work, but Ange met Thoya/Auau in her "travels". How could she have knowledge about how she looks, speaks? It is a convoluted mess, that can only be waved away by saying that it was indeed magic. Which sort of makes Battler's initial struggles semi-pointless.

And one other thing that I realized after reading the magic end. So Ange "awakens" on top of the skyscraper, right before she supposedly jumped. She then talks to the men in black, that she wants to talk to their boss, Okonogi. If she knew that she was being chased by the men of Okonogi, why did she visit him in her umm... "alternate path" in ep4? (As her meeting with Okonogi was after her successful jump, as you might remember.)

Now that I think about it... yeah... every problem that I have with the series is related to Ange who lives in 1998. I hated her chapters in ep4, since at that time I thought they were just useless padding, that did not move the plot forward. (And it even felt weird, considering the fact that she seemed to come from the 1998 of ep3's kakera only, as Eva was dead in every other episodes at that time.) It was also weird for me when she returned in ep5 and ep6 after she was disintegrated in to a piece of bloody meat, because she broke the rules. Not to mention her interactions with the meta-meta-witch, that is Auau. Then when she was briefly out of the picture again in ep7 I felt that the series is back on track, we finally got some answers to what the meta-characters are, who was the Beato that Kinzo knew, what is the solution for the epitaph's riddle and who was most definitely a culprit. And then instead of filling some remaining plot-holes in and maybe giving some non-abstract answers for some of the closed-rooms of the first 4 episodes (I know that there were hints to how to solved them!), we return to Ange. =_="

You can use Sword Art Online:Vol.4 Ch.9(and Titanic endin) as an example to interpret the final scene. Simply speaking, "Battler" come home(the replica room=Ushiromiya mansion) and die(reach Golden Land).
About the golden rose, the red truth Ikoku used, who is she and why she not aged and nobody seem surprise about it, Aurora is godlike being so don't ask how she did it.
Someone say that the magic ending is Battler and Ange delusion, he must also think the whole movie making arc is Kyon's hallucination(watch The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya if you don'i know).
Yasu said she committed sins in countless worlds and kill herself. She like Rika, was a traveler in Sea of Fragment, these worlds she and Battler was in is real, and they came back the original at the end of the journey, that why Yasu,Battler,Ange had memories of everything that happen and there are two outcome depend on Ange's choices. If you don't believe in magic then Higurashi must be some crazy child fantasy.

I've seriously considered not answering you... but here I am, yet again. Arguing on the Internet. My problem is not with the fact that magic exists in any speculative fiction, but how at first it did not really exist in Umineko. IMHO in the first few chapters it was shown that magic is something that does not interact with the real world. The fact that there is a meta-world did not bother me, it made the story awesome. But it was constantly shown, that from the meta-world could you could see several alternate "real" worlds (AKA kakeras or gameboards), but those worlds are always bound by the rules of physics. You can't walk through doors, you can't be in two different places in the same time and there are no godlike beings. Yes, there were scenes that served the purpose of either hiding some obvious facts from Battler (and the reader), or showing an allegory of what is really happening, but they could always be "explained away" as not real. This was the rule of the Game: No magic is real. If magic existed on the gameboard, then the mystery side could never win the Game.

Only on the gameboard, and what make you think for sure that is the real word. It's more like a Close Space with perfect replica of all characters.

I hope Higanbana is okay. The ending for this was just bad.

Am I just totally blind? I didn't get to the whole battler x shannon double suicide in 8. Where in the game is it?

If you mean the scene with the boat, then there it was Battler × "Beato", but yeah, the scene was shown after one chooses the magic end if I remember correctly. Beato falls/jumps in the sea while Battler was not looking, but he jumps after her. So it is sort of a double suicide attempt. After their apparent death, we have one of the credit rolls.

Honestly, I loved it all. I don't think you have to understand something to appreciate it. It's... humbling.
Umineko is partially mystery and partially fantasy. To really appreciate it, you have to understand that there are some things you'll understand and some you won't.
But isn't that the beauty of fantasy? It can't be explained.

I took most of Umineko on a symbolic level. When Battler jumped into the water, it was simply a part of himself that he was shedding. Perhaps the events of Rokkenjima traumatized him so much that he created split identities? And drowning himself was symbolic of how he buried his true personality and created another to cope? This other personality was forced inside his psyche into his subconsciousness, or "oblivion," but fought to escape and retake its body. I could go on on that, but it makes the most sense to me...
And even if I didn't have a theory, I'd be okay with it. Umineko gave me some great ideas for my own writing.

Where are you getting this? According to my reading

Also, magic does not exist on the gameboard, but because of certain factors in the story, it's arguable if it exists outside of the gameboard.

Just wondering, is this official? Did Ryukishi actually confirm this?

It's confirmed in Our Confessions for people who didn't get this just by reading the visual novel.

Shkanontrice just does not work in practice, even if it fits the story of course (since it is slammed onto your face in ep6).

But I thought Ryukishi confirmed it in an interview.