Who hates that loli little girl dancing around talking about death is fair ?

Bura said:
I like her! Unlike a certain priest she often hangs out with ._.

pieceofshota said:
her voice is annoying

pieceofshota said:
lol but boku no pico is like Futanari. They have girl voice and looks with cocks. XD
My fav shota chars are in my fav char list. <3

xEmptiness said:
Sunako is extremely likable IMO. Not only is she excessively cute, her thoughts are interesting, philosophical and poetic. She is respectful and her motives bear no malice. Couple that with drops of despair, futility, loneliness and hope, the end result is one of the most fascinating character in the anime world.

One of the reoccurring things I keep seeing is people claim that her ideologies and actions are unjustified.

Innocent child gets turned into a vampire -> Thrown into an unfamiliar surrounding -> Realizes what has happened, escapes -> Finds out her family fears and rejects her -> Wanders earth alone for a century -> Finally finds companions -> Wishes to build a home for her new family.

Based on the above events, what part of her actions were contradicting or unreasonable?

• Death is fearsome but ultimately fair.
  
• I have done nothing bad because it is out of necessity rather than malice.
  
• Is it a sin to survive if survival means constant murder?
  

As a consequence she also feels betrayed by a higher power as her free will has no say in her horrifying 'fate'. She didn't choose, she was made into this.

What part of her philosophies are contradicting or unreasonable? It's rather ironic if you use humans and cows for this analogy instead. Perhaps it makes her more "human" than the rest of us. Or perhaps we should be grateful we didn't need to live as cows some point in our lives.

xEmptiness said:


Innocent child gets turned into a vampire -> Thrown into an unfamiliar surrounding -> Realizes what has happened, escapes -> Finds out her family fears and rejects her -> Wanders earth alone for a century -> Finally finds companions -> Wishes to build a home for her new family.

Based on the above events, what part of her actions were contradicting or unreasonable?

• Death is fearsome but ultimately fair.
  
• I have done nothing bad because it is out of necessity rather than malice.
  
• Is it a sin to survive if survival means constant murder?
  

As a consequence she also feels betrayed by a higher power as her free will has no say in her horrifying 'fate'. She didn't choose, she was made into this.

What part of her philosophies are contradicting or unreasonable? It's rather ironic if you use humans and cows for this analogy instead. Perhaps it makes her more "human" than the rest of us. Or perhaps we should be grateful we didn't need to live as cows some point in our lives.

rpool179 said:
I see a big debate going on about Sunako and the morality of her actions. All I can say is fuck that little vampire brat. Was so wishing Tomio had gotten to stake, of course then Muroi came in and ruined it all. I agree with Nikke as well, Sunako and her kind did see the villagers as cattle and wanted to exterminate them to make the village their new Shiki home. Just fuck the Shiki, my dude Toshio Ozaki saw to it they all died haha

Animefreak17a said:

If say- a few muslims killed your dad and a few hundred people because they wasn't Muslims what would you do,

Kill all the muslims because of what a few muslims did or try and make peace, me I'm the peace loving type,

Animefreak17a said:

The humans was the ass holes of the series except for a few, the monk and the noodle lady

Animefreak17a said:
Also if say one of your loved ones was a shiki would you help them or kill them, I'd help mine

Nikke said:

The part where she and her family kill hundreds of people and forcibly attempt to turn an entire village into beings they never wished to be either, effectively surpassing her own fate unto others. While you have "companions" from the start, you are still forced to kill your loved ones or die permanently. Should've been staked, I was disappointed she escaped.

Not to mention it is established early on by Toshio that Shiki physically cannot drain a person to death in one sitting and do not need to, either. It takes at least three, usually successive Shiki attacks to get to the point of death, so there is really no reason for the Shiki to kill anyone at all. This is also confirmed by the fact that Muroi simply does not die even when his blood is drained all the time. The newly turned inhabitants of the village only do so because they are either forced to by Sunako, who considers herself a natural predator of humanity and thus killing us as well within her rights, or out of personal malevolence (like Megumi). All the while knowing they might not rise back, as it is what happened to Nao.

Sunako sees humans as cattle.

Red_Keys said:
And they'd return the favor by violently sucking out your blood and murdering you.

Animefreak17a said:


It's no different when you eat other animals, how would you feel if the animals youv been eat started talking and.took a stand and said, stop eating us or we will kill you,

Also that doctor is a crazy mother fucking he was cutting up his wife without hesitation or remorse,

Imagine you waking up on a table tide up and gagged an don't know what the hell is going on and someone your married to is cutting you up and you was begging and crying for him to stop,

The monk was the peace maker he tried to understand the shiki, ( peace is the only way)

If say- a few muslims killed your dad and a few hundred people because they wasn't Muslims what would you do,

Kill all the muslims because of what a few muslims did or try and make peace, me I'm the peace loving type,

Also if say one of your loved ones was a shiki would you help them or kill them, I'd help mine

Also there was only a hand full of humans left they either -

Left before the war
Half died
Half turned in to shiki
What was left of them either died in the war or the fire got them and what was left left the village,

They failed to.protect the one thing they was trying to protect and it services them right,

Also the humans also killed the people in the temple thanks to that mother fucker doctor and the people in the pipes and the old man,

The humans was the ass holes of the series except for a few, the monk and the noodle lady

And they two shiki got away hahaha without them knowing

rpool179 said:


True, you bring up some good points as many have said regarding the animals comment. As far as Doctor Ozaki goes, you could tell throughout the serieds he was never particularly close to his wife. And when she rose, she was a monster at that point, which of course contributed to his indifference to experimenting on her, which is the only reason he was. He could have stopped and explained to her she was a Shiki but I could tell he didn't believe it was worth the time. That would only make her want to live more and beg even harder.

But no fucking way would I help a relative of mine continue to live if they became a Shiki. Of course I would have loved them but I would see to it they rested in peace and went back to the grave, letting them live as a blood hungry monster and helping them would be the biggest injustice I could do to them. And there was never a chance of peace between the humans and Shiki especially when they killed the villagers relatives. Human or Shiki debate aside, you'll hate anyone who kills a close loved one of yours.

Lastly, killing the monk's family was going to happen when they found out he was hiding a Shiki, that was as much the monk's fault as it was the doctor's. Pretty close to what anyone would do if they wouldn't give up where the monk was since he was hiding a blood sucking demon. Although yea, they did lose the village but the scene after the credits shows some of the people remaining getting on a bus leaving the village so there's hope yet

xEmptiness said:

If that's a reasonable reaction (i.e. kill everyone you deem potentially threatening) when under pressure of annihilation, then the Shiki totally did what they should, albeit they were much, much more reasonable than the humans. Notice how even when living in fear every day for the past century, the Shiki chose to make a remote town their home rather than rage induced slaughter throughout Tokyo? That meant the Shiki at least had consideration for humanity using utilitarianism ethics, unlike humans, who literally just snapped.

Animefreak17a said:


Lol you forget that newly made shiki doesn't known what's going on and what happened to them, e.g that old lady who went back to her daughter she didn't suck out her blood because she didn't have know idea what she had become, it's the same with all the other shiki they didn't know til the shiki who came to town taught them what they are and what they have to do

Also if a loved one needed blood my family would gladly take turns giving him/her blood

xEmptiness said:
However if I had the power of mind control, I seriously doubt even taking over a country would be too hard. Arguably the only reason the Shiki even lost was because they were overconfident and chose to taunt certain characters and make their presence known rather than execute their plan efficiently and swiftly.

xEmptiness said:
When humans use utilitarian ethics, we don't consider things like chickens to be of equal value to human life (generally). If saving a life would mean killing 1000 chickens, we would do it. If there's an equally viable option that does not require us to kill chickens, we would take that instead.

Likewise, it is not unreasonable to consider that Shiki ethical value will hold their survival and growth above humanity. The idea will be to simply expand Shiki territory while trying to avoid unnecessary harm to humanity.

xEmptiness said:

I did that mostly to counter his points. I believe both my rebuttal and the original author exaggerated the bad parts of human nature. It successfully made the theme more apparent though. As for whether the pain is equivalent, I have no answer.

Red_Keys said:
Yea that might work... until the other Shiki come and devour you.

Red_Keys said:
Yea that might work... until the other Shiki come and devour you.

Animefreak17a said:
The humans are down right assholes in this series

Ckan said:

That is pretty much the point of the show. Both sides were shown to have people across the whole spectrum; from the completely callous, sadistic and selfish to the kind, powerless and' humane'. A few were probably also at least borderline if not actually deranged, mentally unstable or traumatised by the end of the show however.

On the other hand, you also need to remember that in Shiki, by the time the humans realised what was happening they were already in a state of battling for survival. Given the circumstances where they would have been wiped out if they didn't act, their response was quite justifiable.

Now i'm not saying that a peace between species was impossible, but it was within the events of the series extremely unlikely. If the hand of peace was extended at some point during the show, there may have been compromise with much resent. Usually negotiation requires understanding and good-will from both parties: there was little good-will to come from secretly feeding off some fifth(?) or more of the village.

Animefreak17a said:
There was little good will when the humans killed humans at the temple and in the pipes.

Ckan said:

That's not meant to be a retort, right? Because I am (generally speaking), on the same line as what you said previously and this latest part you've said bears no direct relevance to your quote.

xEmptiness said:


A well thought out response that is both practical and logical on the forums? It's so rare that I don't know whether I should be absolutely touched or shocked.

Leaving the morality (topic of previous discussions) aside, the humans realistically had 2 choices at the end:
1. Willingly convert into a Shiki.
2. Kill the Shiki.
Both options are justifiable. It's unreasonable to pin all blame on humanity for choosing option 2.

Animefreak17a said:
The shiki need to drink blood in order to live, also the humans wasn't killing monsters they was killing there neighbours, friends, there family's, the villagers thought the shiki was acting like there former human sleds but was in fact they was still them selfs they had there same personalities when they was human, that bastard doctor convicted them that the shiki was mindless monsters but he was lying and said they are mindless monsters, nothing of what they used to be,

xEmptiness said:

Leaving the morality (topic of previous discussions) aside, the humans realistically had 2 choices at the end:
1. Willingly convert into a Shiki.
2. Kill the Shiki.
Both options are justifiable. It's unreasonable to pin all blame on humanity for choosing option 2.

Animefreak17 said:

Well.they could of said ok we'll accept you then it could of been better, you forget that dude who was with the shiki and was human

Lets not forget that nurse who became one who refused to drink human blood, it was her choice not to, this shows that the shiki wasn't mindless monsters who wanted human blood
No-one is saying that co-existence wouldn't be the best option in the end, but circumstances within the story made them practically impossible on a large scale.

Look, I know you're trying to say that the Shiki weren't the bad guys per se, but we agree! We get that, we really do (so please try and notice the issues we're addressing). It's a moral pendulum of a story; and that's its purpose and why it's great (the irony is nice too). Good and bad, right and wrong, humans are dicks, humans are nice, society is screwed up, etc. etc.

Ckan said:

Well you're going off on a tangent, but alright, let's ride.

Presumably you're making these points.
1) the Shiki as portrayed by the Dr. were monsters; a 'curse' to be lifted as the metaphor within the series went. - this is certainly true.
2) the Shiki were in fact wholly themselves, having retained their personality and memories. - agreed.
3) the humans were thus murdering 'people', not mindless monsters. - they indeed were killing 'persons' as we understand it, however there is question as to whether they were 'monsters'.

So let's iron out the crinkles.
TLDR ahoy!:
I - Were the Villagers 'Justified' in killing the Shiki.
So while their killings could be construed as murder; it was the only method for the survival of the village; morality questionable.

II - Are the Shiki 'People', 'Humans' or 'Monsters'.

In the end the story isn't really about Humans v Vampires, but people and our fancy literature themes which would be too pretentious to list.


Why did I have to miss your post? I wouldn't have need all these words; I suppose I enjoy reading myself argue up a wall of writing.

While your two choices are exact as I could put (and wish I did), you're missing the most important, the one saved only for last.
3.
Of course that would have been a major stretch, given the way Villagers are. In fact, it's now come to me; the Fourth and best option: The Villagers join-with as the latest collaborators, forming an [un]Holy alliance! First Japan, then the World!




Well you're going off on a tangent, but alright, let's ride.

Presumably you're making these points.
1) the Shiki as portrayed by the Dr. were monsters; a 'curse' to be lifted as the metaphor within the series went. - this is certainly true.
2) the Shiki were in fact wholly themselves, having retained their personality and memories. - agreed.
3) the humans were thus murdering 'people', not mindless monsters. - they indeed were killing 'persons' as we understand it, however there is question as to whether they were 'monsters'.

So let's iron out the crinkles.
TLDR ahoy!:
I - Were the Villagers 'Justified' in killing the Shiki.
So while their killings could be construed as murder; it was the only method for the survival of the village; morality questionable.

II - Are the Shiki 'People', 'Humans' or 'Monsters'.

In the end the story isn't really about Humans v Vampires, but people and our fancy literature themes which would be too pretentious to list.


Why did I have to miss your post? I wouldn't have need all these words; I suppose I enjoy reading myself argue up a wall of writing.

While your two choices are exact as I could put (and wish I did), you're missing the most important, the one saved only for last.
3.
Of course that would have been a major stretch, given the way Villagers are. In fact, it's now come to me; the Fourth and best option: The Villagers join-with as the latest collaborators, forming an [un]Holy alliance! First Japan, then the World!




aaand Round 3 @
No-one is saying that co-existence wouldn't be the best option in the end, but circumstances within the story made them practically impossible on a large scale.

Look, I know you're trying to say that the Shiki weren't the bad guys per se, but we agree! We get that, we really do (please try and notice the issues we're addressing). It's a moral pendulum of a story; and that's its purpose and why it's great (the irony is nice too). Good and bad, right and wrong, humans are dicks, humans are nice, society is screwed up, etc. etc.

Animefreak17a said:

Well at least your not one of those fans who goes * the shiki is evil and the humans was the heroes*

Just a question and this isn't a vs one it's just a question
If someone you loved turned in to a shiki and didn't know what was going on and was begging you to help them what would you do?

Ckan said:
Damn you for quoting my royal spaghetti-double quote in all its glory. This is what I get for posting disgustingly long replies from a laptop.

xEmptiness said:


As much as this thread was supposed to be about Sunako, that perfectly sums up the entire vampire vs human thing.

Animefreak17a said:
No it's just .................... I'm not good with reading long stuff, I'm not being disrespectful, my mind to sleep after reading long stuff, if it's with pictures then its.wide awake lol

Ckan said:

My obsessiveness is forcing me to point out that I forgot to say how in the way of tying things up nicely and with maximum POETIC JUSTICE the village was destroyed anyway. - the show really was better than I remember/gave it credit for.


I was joking about it [unfunnily]. Don't worry about it.

xEmptiness said:


Help them to the best of my abilities within practical limitations.

If you mean Shiki specifically, does this not sound like infinite regeneration and conditional eternal life to you? Your loved one would have literally turned into the most valuable specimen in human history.