Now and Then, Here and There : devoid of logic Spoilers

Nov 7, 2010 12:33 PM

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Oct 2010

10 billion years into the future... the sun is bloated and the world is hell. For no apparently reason the Heliwood is ruled by a classic stock villain from an old Disney movie. This stereotype blind psychopath who isn't even remotely charismatic is searching for Lala-Ru so he can force her to create water and prosperity for his evil plans.

So that girl Rei Ayanami Lala-Ru shows no emotions and has lived for a very long time. No explanations though. She has a magical pendant which somehow creates and manipulates a lot of water at the cost of her lifespan.

Unfortunately the stock characters don't end there, there's the cliche "mean-spirited" characters always causing trouble and of course the reasonable people who nobody ever listens to because that would mean there wouldn't be any room for the melodrama

Oh the characters don't make any sense either, Shu (the main character) starts as a very normal kid who is very determined during his kendo training until he goes to the world 10 billion years into the future.

At this world he turns into a zealous prophet who saves everyone he's known for only three minutes of screen-time. I admit though, the early scene in which hes trying to get Lala-ru's attention is charming which was probably the only moment I cared for him. Should be noted that Nabuca is the most developed character in this anime.

Anyways the big problems start when Shu is captured and put into a cell with Sara Ringuwaruto, a Japanese speaking American... she gets raped a lot. That's all I know about her, in one of the later episodes she tries to kill herself. However the prophet Shu uses a generic "stay alive and it'll be worth it!" which convinces Sara to live on even though she was violated constantly and was scarred for the rest of her life.

Unfortunately the first ten episodes feature little plot movement but are simply made to create massive amounts of melodrama. Stuff gets hurt in the most dramatic way possible, everyone who isn't a complete moron will die very slowly. One of my favorite scenes is when Heliwood starts flying, everything goes to hell and the crew wants to abandon ship but it is all stopped by pulling ONE LEVER. It is one of those melodramatic moments this series loves to care about.

Finally the last episode and after tons of dramatic deaths and dying epiphanies we're basically where we were at the first episode. On paper there was no plot movement from episode 1 to episode 13 only more characters introduced, the mean-spirited characters are still mean (and most of them get shot in rather amusing fashion) and nobody listens to the good guys still. Everything is solved when Lala-Ru evokes a massive flood of water and the ship which somehow isn't water-proof but runs-on water is completely ruined. Oh the bad guy Hamudo dies in the most hilarious fashion. Why she didn't do this before is shockingly illogical (good "hehe irony!" moment) and why it solved everything is also very questionable. She and that-guy-who-helped-Sara both die in the most dramatic way any human could possibly die. Lots Of Laughs.

If they tried to make some character development it would've been nice. Hell if Shu didn't exist and the story focused around Nabuca it would've been far more interesting. (kinda like Lord of the Flies? + big bad Hamudo)

It's a shame though, anime seems to keep going in the direction of life-threatening fevers and other melodramatic moments but then comes along a series which tries to be serious but is so intellectually stupid that it becomes devoid of any realism.

The soundtrack was well made so that's the only reason why I gave it 3 marks, add 5 marks if you just don't care that people get randomly raped and deaths are utterly ridiculous.

Unfortunately I must conclude here as China wants their wall back.

Apr 23, 2011 4:55 PM

drivingsnow

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Jan 2011

There doesn't have to be an explanation for what surrounds Lala Ru. That's the beauty of artistic license. Artists don't have to justify every single thing that seems to belong to the world of fantasy. You don't get any explanation for how/why Chihiro's parents turn to pigs in Spirited Away, and I doubt that's a bad thing. I think the main thing about Lala Ru is that she personifies a country and their sole access to a resource. In war, countries/regions/people often get exploited for their resources even if they want to be far removed from the conflict. Her involvement in the series is in keeping with an important theme, and her abilities are simply a way of accessing that theme.

I'm not sure what you mean by no one listening to the reasonable characters?

Re: Shu's progression. The point is that he has the charisma to do what most people wish they could do. You'll obviously disapprove of an army taking away kids from a village. And if you could, you'd probably want to free them, but you'd worry about the consequences. Shu has the charisma (or perhaps the optimism) to think he can act in a good way and get away with it, no matter who he pisses off. It's not altogether a rational personality, but his actions certainly fit his personality.

And as far as the suicide scene goes - she was in a very volatile mood and nothing you can say will help someone in that situation. Just being there to be sympathetic and to stop the worst from happening is the most sensible thing anyone could do in that situation. He did what most people would have. She didn't turn out happy immediately afterwards - instead it took adjustment and to find a reason be happy/live. (In the end, her mothering towards the children in the last 2 episodes seem indicative that she's found purpose in giving birth. She also gives this as a reason to stay in the futuristic world.)

There was no plot movement? In 13 episodes, Shu gets transported into the future, tortured and put in an army, experiences life in Helliwood, experiences the killing of an assassin, disobeys commanders and gets sentenced to death, breaks out and rescues Lala Ru, escapes from Helliwood and enters Zari Bars,... and this is only half the story of one character. A lot happens in Now and Then in 13 episodes and only someone with a grudge to bear would say the plot never moved forwards. In fact, the criticism I have with the series is that so much happens in the space of the series that I think their scriptwriters ran out of time to resolve the series. The ending was satisfactory but rushed.

Lala Ru didn't flood Helliwood beforehand because she never had a reason to. She points out that using her power makes her weak and that she isn't interested in helping humans and their conflicts because they only ever harm her in return. In the end, when she'd found people she cares about, people whose survival she deemed important, she then felt a reason to use her power to her own detriment.

Character development? Now and Then has some of the distinctive and richest characters of any show I've ever seen. They all represent a significant attitude or keep in with an important theme.

Now and Then is a brilliant series. Nearly every scene in the series has purpose, either directly or indirectly, to the important themes of the story. You're picking out inconsistencies that simply don't exist. Also, how can a series relating to heavy topics such as war be "melodramatic"? It's like criticizing Schindler's List for being melodramatic. War invariably involves drama, particularly when one side acts as evilly as Helliwood did.

Sep 25, 2011 6:11 PM

GodHimselfx100

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Sep 2011

115

The ridiculous actions of the characters through the whole show made no sense. How did nobody kill Hamdo. 2 assassins managed to get all the way to him and then miss. Then what do they do? They stand there slowly inching forward waiting for him to get his gun.

Then Hamdo runs out of bullets. The guy can:
A. kill Hamdo with a knife and save his whole village. He will possibly die afterward.
B. Run away at the last second on a battleship he doesnt know the layout of full of people trying to kill him.

The guy chose B. Are you kidding me?

Why didnt they use the bound system to just go get some damn water. They used it twice while chasing Lala-ru so it cant cost that much energy.

Lala-ru attacks Hamdo to escape but doesnt kill him. Is there any possible reason for that? She was already weakening herself using the water to escape. She did it to protect herself which she supposedly cares about. Theres no reason not to take Hamdo out.

All the people throughout the show survive falls from crazy heights. In the end they survive the ship crashing which defies any logic.

The bad guys had so many chances to kill shu. Once, they decided he was going to be executed and then just decided to wait a while for no reason giving him time to escape. In the final episode the bad kid (tobaal or something. the guy crispen freeman voiced) had about 10 chances to shoot him. The chair shu hid behind somehow stopped bullets that went through houses. When the system started malfunctioning they both just kind of stood there for 5 seconds. When Shu was hanging over the edge the bad kid was going to shoot and for no explainable reason didnt for about 10 seconds until shu was finally saved.

The girl in the village waited way too long to shoot at nabuca. Abelia missed at 5 feet away.

The biggest plot whole is why didnt somebody just kill Hamdo. EVERYONE wanted him dead on both sides. Abelia even let him die in the end. He had only one single security guard. I could have killed him myself. Not to mention how anyone so stupid could ever get power is beyond me.

They wanted the water to power Hellywood just so they could fly it a days journey on foot and then..... use foot soldiers? Why wouldnt they just use their cannon to blow the village up or use transports to get foot soldiers there? No reason thats why. Why was hellywood threatened by a place with maybe 10 soldiers.

Sis was about the dumbest one of them all. O if you go to war you will orphan these kids. However if you stay here you will get killed and the kids will be burnt and raped to death. Clearly you should let them be burnt and raped to death instead of trying to kill Hamdo. Sis even points a gun at that guy from the village. So its okay to kill villagers but not Hamdo.

In the last episode Shu inexplicably knows the layout of Hellywood even though its stated earlier that not even nabuca knew his way around the whole ship without a map.

Shu cant beat one kid in kendo but can somehow beat every single person he fights in one on one fights.

Shus behavior should not be glorified. If that were even moderately realistic he would have caused so many innocent people to die and get captured and raped and tortured. Shu has no character growth. He is as stupid in episode 13 as he is in episode 1.

Sara was the only semi realistic character in the whole series and as soon as she decided not to kill herself all her logic went out the window. Also, heres an idea, how about you take all the children to earth instead of leaving them in a still horrible desert wasteland. Should also be mentioned that a lot of villages probly flooded at the end killing many people.

The moral was that if you do reckless things without thinking about the consequences things will work out just fine always. Well the real moral is that the writer of the show doesnt understand basic logic. How this show averages almost an 8 is beyond me. Its like people see children suffering and immediately say OMG thats so deep 10/10.

I could make this post about 3 times longer if i pointed out every mistake but essentially anytime someone does anything in the show it is the wrong choice. That about sums it up. It made me so mad I made an account just to complain about it.

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Nov 1, 2011 3:58 AM

thresholden

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Jan 2010

What the story did with Sara is probably the worst of it all. Raped, impregnated and stranded in a post-apocalyptic future?

Fuck suicide. My rapist is going to help me save the children, and I'm going to stay in this shithole instead of going home and getting an abortion. This isn't a political statement, its a "this storyline is so unbelievable" statement. Shu's stupid little "life is worth living" speech isn't enough to wish away trauma like that.

Dec 17, 2012 2:38 AM

MudRune

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Aug 2012

200

thresholden said:
What the story did with Sara is probably the worst of it all. Raped, impregnated and stranded in a post-apocalyptic future?

Fuck suicide. My rapist is going to help me save the children, and I'm going to stay in this shithole instead of going home and getting an abortion. This isn't a political statement, its a "this storyline is so unbelievable" statement. Shu's stupid little "life is worth living" speech isn't enough to wish away trauma like that.

^This too.

Sara's situation disgusted me like nothing else and is my greatest problem of this anime. I also can't stand how Shu managed to remain static throughout this anime, if he was broken at some point and experienced some character development the anime may have redeemed itself in my eyes but it didn't.

Jan 2, 2015 10:19 PM

Kuruwin

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Jul 2013

1229

I just want to point out that we don't know how the Hamdo was before the event's of the series. Maybe at one point he was worthy of respect but because unfortunate events and the fact that he probably wasn't never the most stable guy he went bonkers.

Mar 22, 2015 11:17 PM

Christ111

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Nov 2013

Kuruwin said:
I just want to point out that we don't know how the Hamdo was before the event's of the series. Maybe at one point he was worthy of respect but because unfortunate events and the fact that he probably wasn't never the most stable guy he went bonkers.

actually they address this. Hando was supposedly a once great ruler but was driven mad with his obsession of lala-ru. Abelia says this as she is deciding to let him die and that was the only reason she stuck by his side

theres no real plot holes just choices that these critics didnt like.

Christ111Mar 22, 2015 11:20 PM

Aug 14, 2015 3:14 PM

geekfreak17a

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Jul 2012

2198

MudRune said:

Exactly....shu is uninteresting
Sara is in the future..... I mean come on people

You have a fucking time machine and you can literally take every single person on future earth back in to the past an live better lives but instead you WANT to stay in that desert shithole....

Squid girl had better character development then shu...

I mean come on guys

YOU HAVE A FUCKING TIME MACHINE.... THST CAN TAKE YOU ANYWHERE IN TIME ..... INSTEAD OF STAYING IN THAT SHITHOLE..... GO BACK IN TIME TO A BETTER TIME ....... BUT INSTEAD YOU GO BACK IN TIME TO FIND A GIRL THAT GIVES YOU WATER.... WHEN IN FACT YOUR IN THE FUCKING PAST SURROUNDED BY WATER.......

also you could easily go back in time to your past selfs and give them info on what's to come.

This series has big plot holes.

P.S shu sucks

geekfreak17aAug 14, 2015 3:21 PM

I dislike lelouch vi Britannia.

im a shiki supporter

my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR90F0rzcss4CsrAbkZXTkg/featured?view_as=subscriber

Just past the 1500th Mark bitches

I approve this video http://youtu.be/U_0CCLxibFk

Aug 22, 2015 11:59 PM

Momono

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Nov 2012

2078

Sand_Scar said:
theres no real plot holes just choices that these critics didnt like.

- Assassin from Zar Bars attempts murder against Hamdo
- Hamdo is about to kill him immedietly
- Abelia pledges that Hamdo spare him until they interrogate him and find out the location whence he comes
- Hamdo disregards Abelia's pledge and kills him right away
- Later on, they somehow just know that those assassin came from Zar Bars
What am I missing?

Jun 26, 2016 12:18 PM

#10

KennyFan93

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Oct 2014

Animefreak17a said:
YOU HAVE A FUCKING TIME MACHINE.... THST CAN TAKE YOU ANYWHERE IN TIME ..... INSTEAD OF STAYING IN THAT SHITHOLE..... GO BACK IN TIME TO A BETTER TIME ....... BUT INSTEAD YOU GO BACK IN TIME TO FIND A GIRL THAT GIVES YOU WATER.... WHEN IN FACT YOUR IN THE FUCKING PAST SURROUNDED BY WATER.......

also you could easily go back in time to your past selfs and give them info on what's to come.

They don't give any details about the time machine, but we can guess a few things based on how they use it. Hellywood is powered by water. It's not a stretch to assume the time machine is also powered by water. To get water from the past they would have to spend water.
I'm guessing transporting anything through time uses at least an equivalent amount of water. They would waste more water then they would gain.

Maybe they built the time machine for this purpose, but couldn't make it work with less water.

They could go back in time and give their past selfs info on what's to come, but they wouldn't benefit from it. Every time they go back, they'd create a new timeline. If this wasn't the case, they would be able to stop their selfs going back in time, which in turn stops them from stopping them. Simple time travel paradox.
The new timeline would be different from the originating timeline, simply because they were able to travel there. They could help their other selfs out and leave, but nothing would change in their own timeline. They could also kill their other selfs and live in the alternative timeline, but not everyone would be willing to do that.

Sending everyone back to a better time was also never an option, because Hamdo wanted to rule the world. He wouldn't have a fortress or an army in the past.

Momono said:

Sand_Scar said:
theres no real plot holes just choices that these critics didnt like.

They weren't the first assassins from Zar-Bars. Hamdo just assumes they are also from Zar-Bars.

May 2, 2018 10:02 PM

#11

Lightrebellion

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Apr 2018

KennyFan93 said:

They don't give any details about the time machine, but we can guess a few things based on how they use it. Hellywood is powered by water. It's not a stretch to assume the time machine is also powered by water. To get water from the past they would have to spend water.
I'm guessing transporting anything through time uses at least an equivalent amount of water. They would waste more water then they would gain.

Maybe they built the time machine for this purpose, but couldn't make it work with less water.

I think this is too accommodating and presumptuous of an answer for the absolute biggest plot hole in the series.

The time displacement field covers a very large spherical area that includes the two snake-machines and several smoke stacks. While it's very likely that water is used to power it, there's no evidence to support the theory that water is consumed in relation to the mass of the objects transported; it's a time machine, Abelia could easily capture Lala-Ru herself and be back instantaneously without consuming unnecessary water transporting the giant snake-machines twice. It's safer to assume that water simply powers it, and that transporting that sphere's volume in water would greatly outweigh the water used to do so. And while I acknowledge that water would be abundant in the several billion years of sun expansion into the red giant we see in horizon shots, I'd question why everything still runs on water when the earth dries up, or even why people didn't evolve physical adaptations for either water or desert as other creatures have. We're talking a span of over 5 billion years here, there should be some change.

But all of this exposition and supposition is moot. The simpler answer is that they didn't think of these plot holes, and Shu and Lala-Ru were captured and tortured to illustrate the cruelty and savagery of war and survival. They exemplify the true message of the anime and nothing more, which makes the very obvious plot holes and bad character writing irrelevant.

tl;dr they wrote it the way they did to shake your perception of humanity and question your personal values in relation to it. Doesn't make it any better, but at least they tried.

LightrebellionMay 2, 2018 10:17 PM

Jun 1, 2021 2:22 PM

#12

TheCreature13

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Jun 2021

I was told this was one of the best anime to watch. It was ok, 3 out of 5 star. Time travel is never used right in anime; not sure why they didnt just travel back to a time when water was abundant.

Jun 2, 2021 10:44 AM

#13

Kuruwin

Offline

Jul 2013

1229

TheCreature13 said:
I was told this was one of the best anime to watch. It was ok, 3 out of 5 star. Time travel is never used right in anime; not sure why they didnt just travel back to a time when water was abundant.

Because they didn't time travel. There's really not any confirmation either way, but it's lot more likely alternative world than future.

Jun 28, 2021 12:32 AM

#14

Louis_The_Luis

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Dec 2019

You people really don't care about themes huh.

Jul 11, 2021 12:21 PM

#15

KuroNekoAlchemy

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Mar 2020

772

Too cool to pay attention while watching the series, but not to cool to write several paragraphs long post to criticise it.

Jul 6, 2022 4:11 PM

#16

PR1V1L3G3

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Feb 2022

Louis_The_Luis said:
You people really don't care about themes huh.

KuroNekoAlchemy said:
Too cool to pay attention while watching the series, but not to cool to write several paragraphs long post to criticise it.

That tends to happen when the series is badly written and doesn't make any fricken sense.

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Now and Then, Here and There : devoid of logic *Spoilers*

More topics from this board

» Curious about the title….

» How good would you consider the ending and characters? Would you guys consider this wasted potential?

» What a great main character!

Poll: » Now and Then, Here and There Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )

Poll: » Now and Then, Here and There Episode 1 Discussion

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Now and Then, Here and There : devoid of logic Spoilers