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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- So this must be one of those history lesson episodes. I actually found it quite informative being able to learn a few things like what it was like when each nation started and where the Alliance capital and Empire castle get their names from. More importantly it shows how history has begun to repeat itself. I do have to admit that I had a WTF moment when they showed the fat strippers though. |
 ...even a saint needs a soldier to do the dirty work. |
tainteddonut said: I do have to admit that I had a WTF moment when they showed the fat strippers though. Haha, yeah. Anyways, I thought this was really cool. A history episode in a huge series, it was just really neat and nice to see more about the origins of the Empire and the Alliance, etc. Very interesting. |
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| The one thing that bugged me is it said Rudolf the Great killed 4 billion people or 1.7% of the population in a purge. So the population at the time was around 250 billion people. When the population is added up in the present day it comes to less than 100 billion people. So that would mean the empire managed to execute half of humanity. That really creeped me out. |
| Long suffering /m/subs translator http://msubsreleases.wordpress.com/ |
| I enjoyed the history lesson this episode had. Was interesting to see how each respective empire was formed. I did the math and the population was 235 billion people. Taking note of the comment above the Goldenbaum dynasty is responsible for countless deaths which would make them the most genocidal government ever. Scary to think about that. |
| 200 billion vicitms +? I think they have made math mistakes... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| Well, as far as scifi goes, even the Goldenbaum Dynasty's atrocities pale in comparison to the regular purges of heretics and mutants done by the Imperium of Man in WH40K. At any rate, the lives of settlers on a faraway planet would not matter much in interstellar politics. Especially if they were considered degenerates. |
| By 2801AD all the hot women had died. :( I also found it hilarious that Rudolf's only son was a 'congenital idiot'. A cheap but humorous form of revenge to placate us viewers, almost a 'what if' when thinking of Hitler too. The documentary's content was so full of depth, imagination and epic scope its practically an anime in its own right. Not only is it one of the best episodes of the OVA for its rich depiction of a future history, but because of how it changes the dynamic of the entire show, bombarding us with new facts and revelations of how these two systems of living came to be. As such, it is placed at episode 40 and not episode 1 with very good reason. LotGH is awesome. |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
| Really interesting episode. It's interesting to see that the Empire and Alliance have all but switched places as far as the Galactic opinion of "right" is concerned. And,as much as I hate that Reinhard has to sacrifice his allies and commit some rather underhanded tactics at times, maybe it's for the better? By contrast, that documentary made it damn near impossible to ever consider sympathizing with Rudolf the Great. Killing people because they were sick, homeless, etc.That is bullshit and I hope Reinhard never does anything like that. But, I like to think I have his way of thinking understood so I doubt he would something like that. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| That episode was certainly an eye opener, setting before the viewer the story of how the Empire and the Alliance came to be and all that lied underneath and inbetween. |
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| After going to my history class today i realized that at the end of the series i would love another episode like this. Showing the effects of Yang and Reinhard and company on the universe ect...Would be really good imo... |
| Hang on a minute. Ice to make materials to build spaceships!? Presumably, they mean extract and refine ores or some such process, but nevertheless that was a bit of a "wtf" moment, along with the giant strippers. |
| "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." Douglas Adams |
| awesome episode.. liked the story with Rudolf. |
Silverhammer said: Hang on a minute. Ice to make materials to build spaceships!? Presumably, they mean extract and refine ores or some such process, but nevertheless that was a bit of a "wtf" moment, along with the giant strippers. maybe I'm wrong but I think the exterior was made of ice as a camaflouge. Beatnik said: By 2801AD all the hot women had died. :( It may be hard to believe but some societies in history as well as present times prefer fatties - :P |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
eyerok said: It may be hard to believe but some societies in history as well as present times prefer fatties - :P My God, get a hold of yourself man, the woman's one tit is bigger than two heads! Get a hold of yourself! *shakes you till you see sense* |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
Beatnik said: eyerok said: It may be hard to believe but some societies in history as well as present times prefer fatties - :P My God, get a hold of yourself man, the woman's one tit is bigger than two heads! Get a hold of yourself! *shakes you till you see sense* lol..maybe some prefer it that big. I mean, it all comes down to personal taste. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder :P |
eyerokJan 11, 2010 2:21 AM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| meh, not getting in the big titty argument. But those b*tches were too fat. Too fat. That's how you knew humanity had hit the pits. It was like all of society was suffering from depression. Regardless, I love history & that was a very entertaining (albeit slightly depressing) episode. |
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| Very interesting history lesson, thinly veiled 20th century and future allusions aside, but seriously NSFW. X_x (No one click the above spoiler tag). I am surprised there were no panick sounds coming from Julian when they showed that one. |
| Probably one of my favorite episodes in the series. |
| I didn't like how they basically copied german history of the 1930's in the first third but then they went even farther and kinda showed what could have happend if Hitler had succeeded. |
| Well that episode was very interesting. The scenes of Rudolf in the Parliament reminded of Chancellor Palpatine in Star Wars. Baman said: Well, as far as scifi goes, even the Goldenbaum Dynasty's atrocities pale in comparison to the regular purges of heretics and mutants done by the Imperium of Man in WH40K. At any rate, the lives of settlers on a faraway planet would not matter much in interstellar politics. Especially if they were considered degenerates. I think it's because the Imperium of Man is more theocratic than Rudolf's Galactic Empire (say something bad about the God-Emperor and your automatically a heretic, lock, stock and barrel) and it's far bigger in size, covering over half of the Milky Way Galaxy compared to the Galactic Empire which is only on the Orion spiral arm. I agree with your second statement, to paraphrase Joseph Stalin; "Kircheis' death is a tragedy, the 4 billion in Rudolf's purges is a statistic." |
| You see there's no need to wonder where your god is, Coz he's right here! ...and he's fresh out of mercy. |
| i'm really happy i watched this before bedtime lol :p,now i'll dream Rudolfs and the superior races... i found it interesting for some reason,it wasn't bad :),but i think it wasn't a crucial episode. so basically what Rudolf was trying to do was what the Spartans did..with a little Nazism flavour here and there of course unoriginal but kinda entertaining. 4/5 |
Sayonara,papa! "Just how a mirror reflects you,people will also reflect your heart." ~Athena Glory,Aria "Whatever happens,happens" ~Spike Spiegel's thoughts on dying(Cowboy Bebop) |
| A disturbing stripper scene... |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
Confucius said: A disturbing stripper scene... LOL. I think its to scare young people away from strip clubs...I wouldnt be surprised if the writer was an anit-strip club moralist |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| I want to write something relevant but I'll confess the main reason I visited this thread was because of the obnoxious strippers. Agreed with the poster who said this episode shows what will happen if Hitler actually succeed. I just shiver in despair at that thought. |
| Stripper scene while I was eating breakfast was not cool, but Nguyen Kim Hoa made up for it. A Viet character is always welcome. |
| Great episode! Some of the history moved a little too fast for me and I ended up turning a 20 minutes episode into a 40 minutes! Really interesting stuff here, I hope we get another history lesson and I hope they elaborate on this apocalyptic 12 day war. Dem strippers lol.... |
| This episode gave great insights into the history of both nations although I would not have minded if the strippers were not shown :P! I wished more animes would take the time to elaborate more on background facts. |
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| Great episode. |
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| That was an awesome history lesson. Reminded me of the third Reich, but with more people. |
| So in a thousand years they will be using floppy disks again? Fuck. Yes. |
| That's it. After a LOT of days of thinking I've decided to drop the series. Before anything else, I know what everyone's gonna say after taking a look at my avatar/profile. "Oh your favorite anime is Code Geass so you must be just a stupid fanboy who only hates LotGH because of trying to defend CG." That's not the case in any way. Don't you think if I love Code Geass this much then I would have been even more eager to see something which is the so called best anime, thousand times better than CG and which was basically the pre-Code Geass. I would have been the happiest to see this becoming true. But I was disappointed... My main problem is the way too many characters. Now don't get me wrong, having many characters isn't wrong (I also liked how they always showed their names), but I just couldn't care about 90% of them, because I knew half of them were of no importance at all or that they would die in a few minutes. Even some of the main characters were boring a lot of times. Next problem was the length, what I've seen so far could be easily halved by cutting down some of the boring dialogues. I liked the main characters, especially Reinhard, though I found him often very emotionless. But I guess that can be accepted from a soon-to-be world-ruler like him. Some of the fights and strategies were also good but still lacking excitement. I could go on, but this is already way too long. I hope you can understand that I tried and tried to convince myself that it will get better, but I just can't continue. As for the relation between Code Geass and LotGH, I accept that CG, well, stole the basic setup, the motivation and the type (strategist and intelligent as hell) of the main character of LotGH, but the similarities end here. Apart from those things I couldn't find much. Sure CG took ideas from other anime like LotGH (what I've said before), Death Note (magical powr) and robots (not necessarily from anime, but we could say Gundam), but like I've told Baman once, I think that's what makes it an awesome anime (at least for me). Blending all those ideas together made up for what each anime lacked alone. Well, I think I can stop now :D I've prepared my flame shield, unleash Baman's wrath if you want to :) But this is all my opinion so whether you like it or not doesn't concern me, just wanted to rant a little and say that I gave LotGH a chance after hearing all about the CG bashing and the overrating of LotGH itself. Just please don't hate me for my opinion, thank you! :) My final score is a 5 btw. |
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| lol Its not Baman you should be worrying about, but a certain guy whose username starts with a 'C' and ends with an 'S'. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
koreye said: lol Its not Baman you should be worrying about, but a certain guy whose username starts with a 'C' and ends with an 'S'. ... RazielZero said: Next problem was the length, what I've seen so far could be easily halved by cutting down some of the boring dialogues. So the show needs to stoop down to cliché lines? RazielZero said: I liked the main characters, especially Reinhard, though I found him often very emotionless. How...? Were you blindfolded and had earplugs when you watched episode 26? |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| @RazielZero Mhm. I think I should lower the score I gave LOGh too. 110 episodes and too many characters... These are major flaws... Guilty Crown rulz! Sigh. |
koreye said: lol Its not Baman you should be worrying about, but a certain guy whose username starts with a 'C' and ends with an 'S'. ......Truer words have probably never been spoken. .......In this thread. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
orzel286 said: @RazielZero Mhm. I think I should lower the score I gave LOGh too. 110 episodes and too many characters... These are major flaws... Guilty Crown rulz! Sigh. You misunderstood me. It's not the length or the number of characters that bother me. My problem with the many characters was that most of them was so pointless and boring that I wished them to die, and well, most of them died within a few minutes anyway. The problem with the length was similar in a way. I meant that they could easily cut a lot of the dialogues because they were boring or just nothing of big importance. They felt like meaningless fillers. @Confucius That's why I said that he was OFTEN emotionless. That part where Kircheis died was actually pretty sad :/ I won't always come here to defend my points because I know I won't be able to convince a lot of you that these were just my opinion. Similarly you can't convince me to continue watching. If the anime couldn't get me excited after 40 episodes then it's over. Sorry, I wanted to continue but I just can't. Also, thank you Excelsior, that you could understand that I tried. |
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RazielZero said: You misunderstood me. It's not the length or the number of characters that bother me. My problem with the many characters was that most of them was so pointless and boring that I wished them to die, and well, most of them died within a few minutes anyway. The problem with the length was similar in a way. I meant that they could easily cut a lot of the dialogues because they were boring or just nothing of big importance. They felt like meaningless fillers. W T F!? EVERY important character gets his 5-10 minutes of spotlight in LOGH. Filler dialogues!? LOL. It's not LOGHs flaw that "audience" couldn't understand them. BTW - you really could make up something else - "LOL characters, boring dialogues, it's too long" are repeated by every person who's IQ lower than 100 and enjoys every crappy animu they can find. I mean - too often. Oh dear, that was very offensive! Huh. Truth is painful sometimes. |
orzel286 said: EVERY important character gets his 5-10 minutes of spotlight in LOGH. Filler dialogues!? LOL. It's not LOGHs flaw that "audience" couldn't understand them. BTW - you really could make up something else - "LOL characters, boring dialogues, it's too long" are repeated by every person who's IQ lower than 100 and enjoys every crappy animu they can find. I mean - too often. Oh dear, that was very offensive! Huh. Truth is painful sometimes. Look, I'm not "making up" anything. Do you think if I just wanted to say that LotGH is bad then I wouldn't have bothered watching it in the first place? :/ I seriously wanted a new favorite anime that I could love, but this didn't happen. I will try to approach it in a different way. Watching the anime gave me almost no pleasure whatsoever. Sure you can say that maybe I wasn't mature enough or I just don't undestand politics that much etc... But the fact still remains that I didn't enjoy it as much as everyone else who saw it. Don't forget though that I'm not saying that it is the worst anime I've ever seen or it's bad or anything like that. Nor did I want to judge people who enjoyed it, I'm happy for them. It just didn't appeal to me. That's why I gave it a 5 and not anything lower, because I can see why it is loved so much. Like I said, I could keep saying the same thing over and over, but you will just find more flaws in what I say and tell me how stupid and wrong I am, but I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just wanted to give a normal reason for why I dropped the series and not just drop it without saying anything. But I see know that it was a very bad idea. Go ahead, but you won't convince me to continue. However, don't forget that I'm not trying to force my opinion on you. I'm happy you liked LotGH, but you don't have to defend it this much. It's not a bad anime, but I just couldn't like it as much as you do. Please don't hate me for my opinion... :/ |
RazielZeroJan 17, 2012 6:26 AM
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RazielZero said: Please don't hate me for my opinion... :/ Dude, there's no hate in what I'm saying. EVER. Still, the reasons you gave for dropping LOGH are at least headdesk-worthy (and the're used by infidels/trolls time and time and time again, it really got boring long time ago). And do some research next time, plz! Going into Politics: the Anime and expecting a Trainwreck: ze Animashun is... Argh. Anyway... Why do I have a feeling you'd like Guilty Crown?... O_o |
| I'm happy that we could somewhat end this "debate" :) About Guilty Crown, I'm not so sure. I have heard too many bashing from both LotGH and Code Geass fans that it is basically an exact copy of CG and how empty and meaningless it is. But I will probably give it a chance sometime to see it for myself. I hope I will be a pleasant disappointment. |
RazielZeroJan 17, 2012 7:18 AM
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| That was a nice informative episode. |
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orzel286 said: RazielZero said: Please don't hate me for my opinion... :/ Dude, there's no hate in what I'm saying. EVER. Still, the reasons you gave for dropping LOGH are at least headdesk-worthy (and the're used by infidels/trolls time and time and time again, it really got boring long time ago). And do some research next time, plz! Going into Politics: the Anime and expecting a Trainwreck: ze Animashun is... Argh. Anyway... Why do I have a feeling you'd like Guilty Crown?... O_o If someone like you can enjoy this show, then anyone can. |
| This was very interesting. Ok, perhaps the Nazi Germany references were a bit easy, but I wasn't put off by it. Rather, I thought it was a good way to present future history in a way that people would still find credible. If something like that happened before, it's easier to believe that the reality of the Empire could really be like that. I was just thinking how difficult it is to explain the history of a society that never existed because in some sci-fi series that have attempted it the result has been usually boring simply because I am constantly aware of how it is not real. Hmm now that I think about it, this is by no means a unique story. Nazi references do pop up every now and then in sci-fi, and usually they're much more annoying. I guess the difference here is that they weren't doing it just to make the Empire the antagonist, to present them as absolute evil. Instead they were trying to say that even though it all went wrong, there must have been a point at which the intentions were good, there were all these social issues to deal with etc. And that even if the Empire has had such atrocities in the past, it's now taken the path of reformation. This series isn't really that complex or difficult to understand as such, but I have to respect the way it doesn't try to dumb down history. Even if the plot has been quite straightforward, it admits that historical decisions, reforms and political/interpersonal relationships (thinking of Kircheis and von Lohengramm) are complex and ambiguous a lot of the time. This came at a good point in the series as well, earlier such an infodump would have been a distraction. |
| Excellent episode. I think, knowing how things eventually turn out, this episode was even more awesome. Otherwise, my previous post pretty much stands. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
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