Spotlight Character: Rokuro Okajima (Black Lagoon) MAL Character Information Page: Rokuro "Rock" Okajima MAL Favorites: 222 For the next week I would like to have everyone familiar with this character discuss what they think makes it an exceptional character. What attributes make it stand out in the ocean of interesting characters that exist in the realms of anime and manga. Unlike the other two subjects I will not force this conversation to fall into any set structure. Characters that are nominated typically get here because they are adept at breaking the existing character moulds and defying definition. Because of this freedom I encourage everyone to do their very best to stay on topic and keep any and all debate civil. Have fun and I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say about this character. RESULTS OF THE YOU DECIDE POLL Rokuro Okajima was NOT inducted into the club Character list: 20 Yes - 25.3% 59 No - 74.6% 3 Don't know this character - 3.2% of the total number polled 9 Abstained - 9.8% of the total number polled |
santetjanNov 1, 2010 2:29 PM
| You do not beg the sun for mercy. |
| The scene in the 7th or 8th episode, where he and Revy had that heated conversation/argument was outstanding and was the only scene which I enjoyed in the series. Unfortunately, I'm not going to vote yes based just on that scene. |
whitew123 said: The scene in the 7th or 8th episode, where he and Revy had that heated conversation/argument was outstanding and was the only scene which I enjoyed in the series. Unfortunately, I'm not going to vote yes based just on that scene. That was in the 3rd episode of season one, I know because Lind told me... |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| Really? I was always under the impression it happened closer to the 10th episode. You're sure we're talking about the same scene? Judging by the comments in this discussion thread, it looks like the scene I was referring to was in the 7th episode, but if I'm wrong, I'll admit that. |
whitew123 said: Really? I was always under the impression it happened closer to the 10th episode. You're sure we're talking about the same scene? Judging by the comments in this discussion thread, it looks like the scene I was referring to was in the 7th episode, but if I'm wrong, I'll admit that. Yeah, it's around episode 7ish. But, there are two scenes in particular between him and Revy that are well done. The submarine scene were Revy tells him some of her past and the scene between them at the cafe, which I believe is the one you are talking about. And extension of the latter scene is the "cigarette kiss" scene which is a actually one of my favorite scenes in anime. But, on to Rock himself. He is an average businessman who almost seamlessly fits in with the Black Lagoon crew, almost as though he belongs in that world more than the normal world he was in originally. At the same time, though, I'd say he's definitely the most normal of the main characters. Which sort of makes him seem even more off-kilter than the rest of them, I mean he joins with basically no qualms? Obviously there is something off in his head as well. The problem I have is that his development is still unfinished, considering the series he belongs in is still unfinished. Based on what we have seen, I don't really think there is enough to vote him in. At the same time, I don't want to see him voted down if he does eventually become a character worthy for induction. So, I think it's to soon for him to even be decided on. I'll abstain for that reason. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| First off, yes, it was indeed episode 7. And while that scene isn't the sole reason to induct Rock, I would say it, as well as the rest of the episode, exemplify what is great about Rock as a character. Regarding his joining the crew, I think it's rather excusable given the circumstances. He's been cut off from his anchor to the world, is abandoned quite a way off from home, is angry with his company, and is starting to like the crew. That, with a bit of impulse and righteous anger, seems like a fairly reasonable circumstance to join. Now, Rock doesn't really transition from salaryman to pirate overnight, but you can see him gradually adjusting, if finding his newfound lifestyle difficult at times. The strongest point of his character, as we all know, would be when he is sick of being treated like a worthless tagalong, and lashes out at Revy for the hypocrisy she's laying down. Of course, if an inferior character had done this, it would have probably been annoying as hell, but in Rock's case I think it works because he had by this point proven his worth to the crew. Another thing that is excellent about Rock is that, even though the series doesn't feel like beating you over the head with it, Rock is actually a very useful part of the crew. He puts his people skills to excellent use for the crew, making himself a negotiator for them. At the same time, he also acts as something of a moral centrepoint for the series, being the one member of the crew that isn't closed off from working in the business too long. He often disapproves of their methods, but lives with it when he can't do anything about it, and tries to steer the crew in the right direction when he can. At the same time, he is never condescending about it. I think one of his real strengths is succeeding where many other characters of his type have failed. Rather than tagging along when nobody asked him to and being generally useless to the crew whilst complaining about their ways, or being useful to the crew to the point that they aren't even a team, then acting high and mighty about it, Rock manages to get the perfect balance within this character type. All this is why I consider Rock to be an excellent and worthy addition to the relations list. |
| There goes my memory... |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| Just for the record, I've not seen The Second Barrage yet. So feel free to correct me if something in there is contradicted by it. |
| I'll be voting no because the only thing I remember about him is that he was incapable of adjusting to the business that he volunteered for and came off as somewhat hypocritical for continuing to work, though he seemed to always have moral problems with the groups decisions. I watched the latest OVA a month or two ago, and that pretty much solidified it. |
| Except, I just watched the two TV series recently and he does do a relatively good job of adjusting. Look, I'm fairly sure that suddenly becoming a member of a pirate crew, willingly or not, and dealing with things on a daily basis that are against your personal morals well.. I'm sure it's a bit of an adjustment and I'm sure it'll take awhile. The thing about Rock is he'll speak up, in most cases, about things he doesn't agree with. That's pretty ballsy in the world he lives in, at least I think so. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| How did he adjust? I'm really curious. Speaking up is fine in the beginning, but when I feel like that's all you're actually doing, then I feel like you're just there to nag to provide some sort of faltering moral opposition and to keep reminding the viewer that these aren't ''good'' people. And if he is constantly loosing, I find him to be a weak character in not only his function, but his portrayal. That's the impression I'm left with after however many years, so even if he is good for his type, it doesn't mean he's a good character. |
| I'll give you that, he does at times come off as reminding the viewer that what the Black Lagoon crew is "wrong" and, yeah, it doesn't make him a good character. I'm just trying to promote discussion. I think the series itself tries to hard at times to "tell" the viewer the things the characters do are bad or morally wrong, instead of showing. It is worth noting, though, that one of the ongoing story lines is Rock's adjustment to the world he has entered. I guess one of the weaknesses of Rock is that he doesn't grow a whole lot during the series. I think Black Lagoon is generally more interested in blowing things up, than necessarily developing it's characters. Which is a damn shame, as I think it's characters could have been much more now that I think about it. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
whitew123 said: I also loved that scene but was completely disappointed when afterward there was no development. This was Rock's chance to evolve as a character and actually be a man but instead the tension of this scene is wasted and Rock remains a wasted character. It actually ended up doing allot more for Revy's development than anything else; she was totally willing to allow Rock to stand up to her and he simply throws that away, lame.The scene in the 7th or 8th episode, where he and Revy had that heated conversation/argument was outstanding and was the only scene which I enjoyed in the series. Unfortunately, I'm not going to vote yes based just on that scene. |
Lind_L_Tailor said: At the same time, he also acts as something of a moral centrepoint for the series, being the one member of the crew that isn't closed off from working in the business too long. He often disapproves of their methods, but lives with it when he can't do anything about it, and tries to steer the crew in the right direction when he can. At the same time, he is never condescending about it. THIS! There are several moments in both seasons that really steer me towards loving Rock's character. Spoilers for second barrage : All in all. He may never pull the trigger and he may act as a moral standpoint for the rest of the crew but he has never once let down when it's needed. He's also killed a good 10 or so people without ever shooting a gun. So, I really don't see how he isn't worthy of induction. I think some of the members need to think about what certain characters that are inducted would be like in other shows. I will ADD the fact that Rock is a better portrayed version than Tenma. |
pumpkinmuay said: I will ADD the fact that Rock is a better portrayed version than Tenma. I'm not sure I necessarily agree with this. I can sort of see where you're coming from, in the whole "man gets thrown out of his comfortable lifestyle" sense of things, but I think the setting puts the two of them far too far apart. A lot of it is how Rock works within his crew. |
| @ pumpkinmuay I guess you already knew someone would question your last sentence. How so is Rock portrayed better than Tenma and how so are they even similar? And, what Lind says. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3soldiern said: @ pumpkinmuay I guess you already knew someone would question your last sentence. How so is Rock portrayed better than Tenma and how so are they even similar? And, what Lind says. I know, I know. Their settings are different. My main point is, if Rock was in Monster, I doubt any of you would have a problem with voting him in. There are several times in Monster when I felt Tenma was incredibly whiney and annoying (despite thinking he was a great character) he always pushed the "you shouldn't kill" , kinda crap. Rock has come to terms with the killing fact of Roanapur and has still kept his morals without bitching about all the killing. The main time you see this is what I mentioned first under the 'spoiler' tag. And yes I knew a bunch of people would harp on at me because they're Monster fanatics (it's pretty much why I said it. What else would be able to get this livened up?). |
| @ pumpkinmuay I do agree that there could definitely be more discussion for not just Rock, but pretty much any spotlight. If Rock was put into Monster to replace Tenma it wouldn't have worked. Tenma's search, and thus the main plot of Monster to begin with, for Johann is fueled by his being unable to accept the killings around him. So, if he just let Johann do as he pleased there wouldn't have been a point. Also, I never saw Tenma bitch at all about killing. I do remember him protesting about Nina killing, but he himself was more than willing to do the deed. If anything, he was always willing (sometimes at the expense of the investigation) to help people who were injured or dying. That's more heroism than just excepting things as they are if you ask me. If Rock was in Monster, I just don't see how it would be as effective a story. Since Tenma is one of the reminders in Monster that, despite all the horrible stuff going on, there is still good in the world. I just don't think you get that from Rock. Again, I'm not saying I don't like Rock. I think he works well for the show he's in. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| While I don't quite agree with Pumpkin's point, he has put me on an interesting thought that has given me another reason to vote yes, and that is how Rock would function in a similar series. The example that I think would be most fitting would be Eureka Seven. The key difference here is that if Renton had joined the Lagoon company, he would have probably pissed himself and been shot in the face by Revy long before episode 7. Rock, on the other hand, would still mostly likely be at odds with Holland, but not trying to argue with them about their ways since he would have joined out of choice (thus making it, you know, not really his place to do), and calling Holland out on his bullshit rather than moping about it. This analogy may be a bit off because it's been a while since I've watched E7, but I think it holds up pretty accurately. |
| I agree. I think the main difference is that Tenma is trying to stop the killing, whereas Rock often tries to steer people away from it in a world where it's somewhat the norm. If Tenma were in Black Lagoon, he wouldn't have joined the crew at all. |
insan3soldiern said: @ pumpkinmuay I do agree that there could definitely be more discussion for not just Rock, but pretty much any spotlight. Also, I never saw Tenma bitch at all about killing. I do remember him protesting about Nina killing, but he himself was more than willing to do the deed. If Rock was in Monster, I just don't see how it would be as effective a story. Since Tenma is one of the reminders in Monster that, despite all the horrible stuff going on, there is still good in the world. I just don't think you get that from Rock. Again, I'm not saying I don't like Rock. I think he works well for the show he's in. Okay, maybe not bitch but he always put on the sad face and tried his utmost to save them and to some extent mentioned how terrible it all was at the same time. Also, if he was always willing how come Okay, you have a point. He probably wouldn't have worked in Monster, but I guess we should divert from that subject seeing as most of our last posts have been about Monster =/. For that, I apologise. |
Lind_L_Tailor said: While I don't quite agree with Pumpkin's point, he has put me on an interesting thought that has given me another reason to vote yes, and that is how Rock would function in a similar series. The example that I think would be most fitting would be Eureka Seven. The key difference here is that if Renton had joined the Lagoon company, he would have probably pissed himself and been shot in the face by Revy long before episode 7. Rock, on the other hand, would still mostly likely be at odds with Holland, but not trying to argue with them about their ways since he would have joined out of choice (thus making it, you know, not really his place to do), and calling Holland out on his bullshit rather than moping about it. This analogy may be a bit off because it's been a while since I've watched E7, but I think it holds up pretty accurately. Yeah, one of the things I disliked about E7 was Renton. Replace him with Rock and you have a much better show. However, the fact is that Rock is only in Black Lagoon. I think me that pumpkinmuay, Lind_L_Tailor, and I all agree that he works well for the show he's in. But, he's still unfinished in character, I think. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| I agree that he's unfinished as a character, but then again Black Lagoon is also unfinished. On this note, I think it may have been better to wait until Black Lagoon was at a further level of completion before nominating him. |
pumpkinmuay said: I think what pumkin was trying to point out but couldn't exactly put his finger on was that Tenma and Rock are both 'Straight Men" characters. Characters that often portray the politically correct views of the world and offer moral value vs. Anarchy and chaos. I think Tenma definitely would have joined the crew in order to survive and achieve his purposes. Plus the fact that he was a doctor and very intelligent means he probably could have come to many of the same conclusions that Rock helped out with. How long Tenma would have stayed with crew would be the question, because ultimately Tenma is trying to hold on to his identity as a doctor, while Rock is soul searching or looking for a new identity to replace one that he has already decided is corrupt. His ability to hold on to his integrity and belief system is being tested everyday, and yet he continues to attempt to do what he believes is right at key moments. His reason's to stay with the crew are somewhat complex. I perceive him as staying because he is unable to rejoin a corrupted society. His moral fabric was destroyed when his corporation betrayed him, and it was further destroyed by his experiences in Tokyo during the second Barrage. I think pumpkin highlights the two moments in the franchise so far that have made me like the series overall. His static strait man character somehow grows in wisdom in those few moments and it becomes apparent that his character at this moment might be able to evolve and buck the his "institutionalized" way of thinking. One might say his character is an example of a person slowly having their mind "decolonized" from the norms that Japanese society has taught him. The rest of the crew has long since given up on the idea's that control the average person. I've only watched the first Ova or Roberta's trail, but it seems to be on the same path. The portrayal of C.I.A. (a.k.a. American corporate hit men) is solidifying what Rock is fighting against. It's a classic struggle between the haves and the have nots. At this point Rock is still struggling to find his entire roll and purpose in this struggle for power between the major international players, being States, Organized crime and transnational corporations. As a political scientist I can't help but find Rock to be a very interesting character at this point, because he is the focal point of the common man besieged on all sides by powers who do not follow the rules established by civilized society charted by the international moral agenda set by United Nations. If I had not seen second barrage I probably would have voted no, but this argument makes me want to vote yes for Rock. However, that could change if he doesn't reach his potential eventually. If he doesn't choose his path as Tenma did, his character to me is a failure. That being said, if he does finally commit to a goal and an identity his character will be dynamic and I think he should be voted in. This character vote should be put on hold until we discover these key developments. Basically that means I'm going to have to abstain or also ask that this vote be postponed by everyone abstaining until a conclusive decision can be made. At this point I also don't think it can be either. |
Orion1Oct 30, 2010 5:21 AM
More topics from this board
Sticky: » The End of Critics and ConnoisseursHiroM_ - Dec 31, 2022 |
31 |
by danz
»»
Nov 10, 2023 1:08 AM |
|
» Challenge You Decide: Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion (Anime) (1/1)HiroM_ - Dec 3, 2022 |
44 |
by 25saix
»»
Dec 30, 2022 3:10 PM |
|
» You Decide: Golden Kamuy 2nd Season (Anime) (12/4)HiroM_ - Dec 2, 2022 |
42 |
by 25saix
»»
Dec 30, 2022 3:10 PM |
|
» Resurrected You Decide: Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica (Anime) (12/4)HiroM_ - Dec 2, 2022 |
47 |
by 25saix
»»
Dec 30, 2022 3:09 PM |
|
» Blue N Rescue Mission: Eikoku Koi Monogatari Emma (Anime) (12/4)HiroM_ - Dec 3, 2022 |
24 |
by Dramaddict
»»
Dec 28, 2022 6:02 PM |