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Monster Episode 74 Discussion
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View Poll Results: Monster Episode 74 Discussion
5 out of 5: Loved it!
 
240 72.51%
4 out of 5: Liked it
 
56 16.92%
3 out of 5: It was OK
 
23 6.95%
2 out of 5: Disliked it
 
4 1.21%
1 out of 5: Hated it
 
8 2.42%
Voters: 331

04-08-13, 8:17 PM

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As a last episode, it was pretty near perfect. I don't think I would ever give finales 10/10s since it would mean admitting that everything was over. But anyway...

About that enigmatic scene where Tenma falls asleep and dreams that Johan asked if he knew which child his mother had handed over to Peter Capek: I think it might have been the "only memory" which Johan possessed which Nina does not. There were a few odd scenes towards the end where it showed Johan and Tenma sharing the same scene "at the end of the world".

I liked the cliffhanger end and the various loose ends which will keep me thinking for days.

-why was Peter Capek so twisted to begin with anyway? how does a German-born Czech end up like this? Where did he get his inspiration for his stories/morals from?
-who was really the "monster", does true evil/the devil exist or is there always a reason for how things turn out?
-why...did Johan decide to dress up as his sister and welcome her back in the first place? did he know that this would mess with her memories of who did what at the Red Rose Mansion?

Did anyone else feel the series was (in terms of setting/background) actually closer to Nazi Germany more than everything else with its continual references to race, eugenics and blonde, blue-eyed children?
 
04-11-13, 4:13 AM

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I loved the ending. That moment when Johan was suddenly sitting up staring at Tenma literally made me jump and figuratively shit my pants.....

Who is the real monster? I agree with what alot of people have said here, that the "monster" is everyone. It's actually kinda the reason why I don't believe in the death penalty irl. Who knows what fucked up things happened to fucked up people when they were kids, is it their fault? The person that did the fucking up is a monster and the person that is fucked up is a monster.

Every single person on the planet has at some point hurt someone in some way, shape or form. Even if we meant well we can never truly tell how that effected that person. We're all monsters to some degree.

I actually had a little chuckle (after my initial "no fucking way) as the credits were rolling on the empty bed. I thought "funny if we heard the sound of a toilet flushing and then Johan walks back into frame and just gets back into bed" lol

Unforgettable series. Now to read Another Monster.
 
04-11-13, 10:57 AM

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Fantastic series, but I feel like I didnt quite understand why Johann did what he did, or it was just not explained deliberately.
 
04-14-13, 3:35 PM

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Joined: Jun 2012
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I've never seen an open ending provide so much closure before this. It leaves you with the questions of "So who, exactly, is the real monster?" and "Where did Johan go?" to figure out for yourself, while at the same time giving you the feeling that everything has already been answered and the story has come to an end.

Anna looked so happy to hear about Tenma. I suppose they've formed a strong bond after everything they went through together. I really wish I could have seen what they did when he went to visit her and Dieter, however I feel that not showing us is a better choice in the end. By not telling us what happened, it's left to be constructed by our imagination where whatever we wanted to happen between the characters becomes true. In that sense, the story never actually ends.

Personally, I hope Tenma, Anna, and Dieter will always continue to see each other often, as after all those years they've practically become family to each other. Hopefully Tenma and Lunge can leave the past behind and become friends, same with Eva too.

One thing that I thought was very interesting, was how they kept making subtle religious references to Johan, implying that he is of an evil like the anti-christ. This was kept up from the beginning of the first episode all the way until the very end of the series. At first, when we hadn't seen much of Johan, I thought it was an over-the-top way of characterizing him. However, as the series continued to progress, the title of "anti-christ" seemed to become fitting for him, not in a religious way but in the sense that he was a synonymous evil. In everything he did, the amount of evil only increased in intensity until the climax where he had personally initiated the slaughter of an entire town and asked Tenma to shoot him while holding a child at gunpoint, with the motive of completely erasing his own existence along with the existence of anyone who ever knew him.

In the final scene with Tenma and Johan, it seemed to me that he no longer had interest in continuing the same kind of inhuman evil acts that he did before, but still held the same beliefs that he expressed in the previous episode: "The only thing people are truly equal in is death". This leads me to believe that he committed suicide in the end, however I'm still not sure about that as he was never interested in ending his own life, and instead tried to make other people (Anna, Tenma) end it for him.

Needless to say, that last scene was a fantastic way to end the series. I believe that endings are the most important part of creating lasting appeal, and the way it was handled here was perfect in my opinion. Showing the final remaining "memory" during the last few moments and asking a simple yet unanswered question was powerful, and will likely cause this anime to stick with me for a very long time.

I've never seen anything come close to this, not just within the anime industry but within entertainment in general. While from an objective standpoint the story has some flaws, it was executed in such a masterful way that I couldn't even notice them unless I deliberately tried to find them. While looking at simple screenshots it could appear that it is visually unimpressive, the animations were extremely high quality and I often found myself replaying certain scenes to admire it. The facial expressions were great, especially those within the main cast. The story was constantly developing itself, and not a single episode ever felt out of place. The suspense was constant, and the twists kept coming from the beginning until the very end.

One of the things I liked the most were the ambient sounds. They were amazing and really added a lot to the atmosphere. A great example in my opinion was when Robert was trying to avoid giving in to alcohol. That was very well done, and it really gave you an idea of how nervous Robert was feeling and how intense it was for him. It makes you feel what the characters feel. Another good example is the very last scene. The sounds that start playing really help you understand the dread Tenma felt as he looked over to see Johan had sat up.

I could continue listing all the things Monster did right, but I'd be preaching to the choir. Monster is a series that I will likely use to judge anything I watch in the future, for more than just anime.

Kurogashi said:
I hope Johan went and become Hitler or something; his character and talent would be wasted elsewhere.


I don't remember the exact words, but during the arc where they were plotting to burn down the Turkish district, Tenma said something like this:

"Johan doesn't have foolish racial prejudices like you. No, Johan mocks the entire human race."

I think a position as "Hitler" would still be below him. He's capable of far more evil than that.

SimmianPrime said:
I actually had a little chuckle (after my initial "no fucking way) as the credits were rolling on the empty bed. I thought "funny if we heard the sound of a toilet flushing and then Johan walks back into frame and just gets back into bed" lol


Since I read that, every time I watch that scene I can't help but think of that and laugh. Really, that was clever. If they actually did that though it would probably ruin the ending for me. It would be like spitting on everything that happened.
Modified by Laraso, 04-14-13, 10:59 PM
Some parts of this post may be exaggerated.
 
04-17-13, 3:26 PM

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I personally don't find the theme 'Who is the True Monster' interesting or awe inspiring. Given, I don't believe in God as much and in my opinion, there's no need to think too emotionally when dealing with incidents. No matter how saddening or unfortunate their past is, it's simple to distinguish crime from not and whoever did it simply had to be held responsible for it. Choices are ours while blames are more often than not, lies on the part of the caretaker; especially parents who didn't think far enough before deciding to give birth.

Back onto the show, Monster is a great show. Despite being slow-paced, the constant revelations are a delight to watch. The only flaws are two episodes of filler and the faltering momentum as the show reaches it's climax. For the former, it's the episode where Dr. Tenma helped the sole doctor of a village with his work and the other being the episode where Dr. Tenma helped that underground female doctor. They simply served no further purpose than connecting the story right at the end of the episode. A good indicator is the lack of their presence in the epilogue.

The show starts to deteriorate by episode 67 where Johan killed the guy who funded his activities. As far as I know, there's no indication as to who the guy is; though I could be mistaken. Then there's the problem with the death of Grimmer. The idea of Grimmer 'conquering' his inner self is fine by itself, but a guy walking out into the line of fire of terrorists? No please, that's too fictional and shouldn't exist in Monster. Furthermore, he even start PREACHING about idealogies. That's pretty much the nail in the coffin. A much better alternative is for him to simply caught sight of the woman getting killed and continue from there without all the preaching.

It's obvious and expected that Dr. Tenma can't shoot Johan but having Dr. Tenma as the King of Procrastinator while screaming/shouting is a huge letdown. Every scene with weapons capable of fatality should be executed quickly and smoothly without allowing too much time to think. That's what executing a climax is all about. Instead we have Dr. Tenma and his screaming which I had no idea for what or why. Just keep calm and point the gun without making sounds. Is that too difficult? There's not even any need for you to shoot; just point 'em.

While Nina forgiving Johan is a nice touch, the worst offence is having someone other than the main cast killing Johan. When Johan was killed, I wholeheartedly believed that it's Lunge who shot him. Instead we have a drunkard and a nobody ending this epic chase. Just why? With the build up so far, it's simply a question of orchestrating Johan eventual death by Lunge. Why must it insists on it's so called 'theme' and have another terrified nobody haunted by Johan's inner malice or a.k.a. Monster to end Johan's life?

Backtrack a little, the fact that Wim went to meet Dr. Tenma when they're supposed to enter the house and saving Lunge is another letdown. Yes, Johan is important, but stop being suggestive if you're not gonna do it. Then there's the brawl between Roberto and Lunge. It's finely executed but the aftermath leave much to be sought for. Lunge managed to bring Roberto down only to be knocked unconscious when he's trying to exit the premise. The problem lies on why Roberto doesn't kill Lunge and the fact that it's too obvious the author's trying to let Roberto kill Bonaparta and dying with a cool final line. It isn't even a ploy from the author; it's downright bad storytelling.

Then there's the epilogue. I'm supportive of Tenma saving Johan. It's simply the 'correct' turn of event and isn't detrimental in any way to the show. It's also nice to see that Nina's real name is hinted to be Fraulein. While Fraulein could be 'Miss' in German (according to Wikipedia), there's simply no reason why the viewer would know rather than assume it's her 'real' name. Furthermore, it's usage is pretty much nil in real life. But what grit me is how eager Nina wanted to meet Dr. Tenma. I never like how close they were; they're not meant to be together but it's deliberately shown that there's slight romantic interest. The transition is too sudden and awkward. It leaves a bad aftertaste. Though I'm glad that Johan never actually woke up early in the episode and starts with bs like repentance, morality and the importance of forgiving others. Johan's crime is simply too great for such a lenient ending while the current one suit it perfectly.

Nevertheless, the show seen it's salvation when Johan suggests the most crucial question: who is it that the mother abandoned? More often than not I'd grind through remarkable show which never succeeded in wrapping up the story perfectly and sadly, Monster is one of it. By the end of the show, there's too much cliches and plot devices involved for it to be entertaining. Nevertheless, it boils down to a question of 8/9 or in other word 3/4 out of 5 though I'm leaning on the lower side.

Edit: Ah right, I finally understood why the ending's been bugging me so much. Having an unrelated character shooting Johan aside, it's pretty much unrealistic for a complete amateur to do a headshot. While I welcome these 'low probability but still possible' occurrence in fantasy shows, clearly it has no place in Monster which had managed to at least stay on the realistic side of the world for the whole show. Furthermore, I reckon the drunkard had less motivation to shoot Johan compared to Tenma's despite his son being held captive. Tenma definitely had it worse during these 74 episodes.
Modified by Kenjimax, 04-18-13, 2:10 AM
 
04-29-13, 10:44 AM

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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 266
This anime was definitely too long. They could have made it shorter like 50 episodes.
In the end i thought the monster would be defeated but it never happened. The last scene in the hospital revealed some important details and it was very creepy when Dr.Tenma had that vision.
In terms of story this was one of the most enjoyable anime i've ever seen. It will be one of the top in my top 10 list and i will give it 10/10.
 
05-01-13, 1:28 PM

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Posts: 751
The first anime I have completed of this length. It has been on my PTW for a way to long time because of it's length. But I certainly have enjoyed these 2 weeks watching Monster.
8/10 - might even consider rewatching it in the future
Modified by Khalan3, 05-01-13, 3:39 PM
 
05-03-13, 6:27 PM

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Fantastic end and a equally fantastic series! Definitely in my Top 5 Anime that I have seen. The ending where Tenma had that vision freaked me out so much. Johan is one of the best villain I've seen in anime. Just pure evil and the perfect nameless mosnter,

10/10
 
05-09-13, 6:41 AM

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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 364
WTF cliffhanger ending is this? This twist was unnecessary for this otherwise very great show. Johan should stay in coma. This was disappointing. It left me with bitter aftertaste.

But the series was excellent I had a great time watching it.

So, in the end

9/10

Edit: Yeah, I get the symbogy - Johan itself said he never existed. And that the true monster never dies, just disappears for a wihile.
But in the end I am force to believe that he either died in hospital bed or that he was redeemed when Tenma said her mother loves them both and never kills anyone again. That way this end is bearable for me, otherwise it would be unsatisfactory.

Or even better - let's take this disappearance ending as purely metaphorical. Another Monster states that Johan is still in coma in this hospital and I am poised to believe it. He just vanished from lives of everybody. His actions were slowly forgotten. True monster is gone. Really the best end.
Modified by Mich666, 05-09-13, 8:06 AM
 
Yesterday, 1:11 AM

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Love this series and the cliffhanger nonon ;A; I wanted to know what happen to Johan. I'll keep thinking Johan escaped and is somewhere out there :') 10/10 T^Tb
 
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