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Mar 20, 2013 2:49 AM

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I'll never understand dub haters. One of the arguments they use (To cover up the fact that they're just massive weeaboos) is that they just watch everything in its original language.

But here's the thing. Foreign movie dubs are widely regarded as being terrible. The voices just can't match up with what's happening on the screen. I don't know anyone who would get serious enjoyment out of watching dubbed foreign movies.

With anime, the majority of people in western countries don't care because... they're cartoons. There's nothing inheritly special about the original language of something that's usually made for kids. They don't have the same problems as live action films. The fact that people get so hot and bothered about people watching cartoons in their own language is beyond me.

tl;dr: Because I'm not a massive weeaboo
V has come to.
 
Mar 20, 2013 9:01 AM

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That sounds like a terrible attitude to have. It sounds like you're saying, "They're just cartoons so they don't matter. They're not REAL entertainment like live-action."

It is worth noting, however, that the vast majority are animated such that they can be dubbed in multiple languages. That's why the mouths just flap instead of having proper syllabic motions. That's the biggest difference between dubbed animation and dubbed live action.
 
Mar 21, 2013 3:03 AM

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That's not the message I was trying to get across. What I'm trying to do is criticise the dub haters argument that they just believe that everything should be watched it in its original language.

But the thing is that most people would watch French cinema in French anyway. The only thing that's different from them and the average person living in the west is that they watch anime with subtitles when most people would watch it dubbed.
V has come to.
 
Mar 22, 2013 7:50 PM

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I'm still not sure I understand your argument, or how you're connecting anime with foreign movies. Wouldn't "most people watch French cinema in French" be something that sub-premacists would use to SUPPORT their claims that everything should be watched in its original language?
 
Mar 22, 2013 8:39 PM

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I like English Dubs if they fit the setting or if I'm just lazy.
Sometimes when the majority cast is other than Japanese it gets annoying when they say names. "Arekusuanda" "Andateka" "erizabesu" gets annoying imo.
also when even the male characters sound like girls.. it's just ... e___e

But I like both Jap or Eng. I just think Eng dubs have rights too x3
 
Mar 30, 2013 10:46 AM

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I don't like reading words at the bottom of the screen.I find that from watching subs and dubs that a lot of your attention is on the subs instead of mostly on everything else that is going on in the anime. If I want to read then there are these things called books, magazines, web forums, newspapers.

Characters from another country will usually have an accent.

Watching a anime in your own language closely gives you the same experience watching that those in Japan did. Those in Japan watching the anime didn't need to read little words on the bottom of the screen, nor did they need to look up wikipedia to see what a word,honorific or phrase means.Most dubbing companies also leave out the Japanese honorifics or they find English equivalent of those words.S they didn't need to look up wikipedia to see what the hell Onichan means
 
Mar 30, 2013 11:18 AM

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I want you to know that I only half-read most of that because I was distracted by your awesome avatar.
 
Mar 30, 2013 6:45 PM

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i like dubs because when you understand what they are saying its easier to watch and appreciate the art and shit thats happening also if you miss a word or something while reading it can be confusing not to mention its better for taking it in because you arent using one sense for two different things (only weeaboos are anti-dub)
 
Apr 21, 2013 3:05 PM

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I like dubs because they're easier for me to watch the anime, I'm waaay to lazy to read the subs on every anime that I watch. I remember there was a time when people where excited to see/hear which voice actor was going to play who in the series.

To me both english/japanese dubs can get extremely annoying, Laura Baley plays all the girls in one anime, the japanese shy girl in anime always get that annoying high pitch voice, that seriously wants me to plug my ears. Back to back its the same but I think english Dubs has more variety than those who get "idol" status in Japanese Dubs.

I rather listen to variety-english dub-voices than that of perfect-japanese dub-voices. And lets face it, people dont watch anime for subs, they just like to hear the japanese voices because they have more "emotion" into their voice acting than actually reading subs. No one cares about subs, they are only there to communicate/translate to the other audiences.

Sigh~ I hope that make sense
 
Apr 21, 2013 7:05 PM

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SHINOKAZI09 said:
I like dubs because they're easier for me to watch the anime, I'm waaay to lazy to read the subs on every anime that I watch. I remember there was a time when people where excited to see/hear which voice actor was going to play who in the series.

To me both english/japanese dubs can get extremely annoying, Laura Baley plays all the girls in one anime, the japanese shy girl in anime always get that annoying high pitch voice, that seriously wants me to plug my ears. Back to back its the same but I think english Dubs has more variety than those who get "idol" status in Japanese Dubs.

I rather listen to variety-english dub-voices than that of perfect-japanese dub-voices. And lets face it, people dont watch anime for subs, they just like to hear the japanese voices because they have more "emotion" into their voice acting than actually reading subs. No one cares about subs, they are only there to communicate/translate to the other audiences.

Sigh~ I hope that make sense



I read somewhere that psychologically speaking, people find foreign languages more emotional and in depth because they are not accustomed to that language and it is harder to get an emotional reading off words that do not normally hear. At least thats the best way I can explain it. Also do not know how true that was. I just remember some guy arguing that foreigners were giving some German actor in a move too much credit.
Too many stupid people have access to vast amounts of online information, and still can't be bothered to fact check.

 
Apr 22, 2013 12:48 PM

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SHINOKAZI09 said:
I rather listen to variety-english dub-voices than that of perfect-japanese dub-voices. And lets face it, people dont watch anime for subs, they just like to hear the japanese voices because they have more "emotion" into their voice acting than actually reading subs. No one cares about subs, they are only there to communicate/translate to the other audiences.


I'm not sure I understand. You're claiming that Japanese voice actors inherently have more "emotion" in their portrayals?

Tomoki_Sakurai said:
I read somewhere that psychologically speaking, people find foreign languages more emotional and in depth because they are not accustomed to that language and it is harder to get an emotional reading off words that do not normally hear. At least thats the best way I can explain it. Also do not know how true that was.


In simplest terms, I think it's harder to recognize bad acting in a language you don't speak, so people don't recognize it in subs as much as they do in dubs.

Of course, this is also true for good acting. So I think a large majority of the subbed fanbase have established the assumption that all Japanese acting is good acting.
 
Apr 22, 2013 3:01 PM

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XTApocalypse said:


In simplest terms, I think it's harder to recognize bad acting in a language you don't speak, so people don't recognize it in subs as much as they do in dubs.

Of course, this is also true for good acting. So I think a large majority of the subbed fanbase have established the assumption that all Japanese acting is good acting.



Yea that sums up what I was trying to say in a less confusing manner lol.
Too many stupid people have access to vast amounts of online information, and still can't be bothered to fact check.

 
May 27, 2013 3:48 AM

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SaberRitsu said:
I'll never understand dub haters. One of the arguments they use (To cover up the fact that they're just massive weeaboos) is that they just watch everything in its original language.

But here's the thing. Foreign movie dubs are widely regarded as being terrible. The voices just can't match up with what's happening on the screen. I don't know anyone who would get serious enjoyment out of watching dubbed foreign movies.

With anime, the majority of people in western countries don't care because... they're cartoons. There's nothing inheritly special about the original language of something that's usually made for kids. They don't have the same problems as live action films. The fact that people get so hot and bothered about people watching cartoons in their own language is beyond me.

tl;dr: Because I'm not a massive weeaboo


On the movie part, I have to agree. In my country, I've watch so many American movies being dubbed into my own nat'l language "The Filipino Language" or "Ang Wikang Pilipino" and it sounds so terrible even if I have a lot of patriotic fervor running in my veins. Why? It sounds so cheap, the voice actors indeed cannot match as they seem to water it down or make it sound corny if not downright so bad its good. Much as I love a show that is dubbed into a language that suits you best, here in my country, there is a large enough number of educated people who understands English a lot and it would be unnecessarily redundant if not impractical for them (including me myself) to ever hear such a thing. Now this is not to say that I just push those non-educated ones aside but rather if dubs are done, hire the fitting VAs and a well-made script to boot. Today, most of the Fil dubs done are mingled with English which would lower the integrity of the lines dubbed over in a translated manner, similarly, we even have here in my country over-acting dubbers who hammed scenes up in the wrong time and there are those who just didn't care and they sound monotone. Just my two cents here.
 
May 27, 2013 10:13 AM

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Well, the quality of the dub is a fact to consider, as well. I can't imagine the Filipino dub market is nearly as grand as the English one on a global scale, so it would make sense that not as much time and effort is put into the dubbing process.
 
May 27, 2013 1:10 PM

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XTApocalypse said:
Well, the quality of the dub is a fact to consider, as well. I can't imagine the Filipino dub market is nearly as grand as the English one on a global scale, so it would make sense that not as much time and effort is put into the dubbing process.


Especially if they're anything like those Singapore English dubs. Oh my God, those are so terrible.
 
May 27, 2013 10:27 PM

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mrbling252 said:
XTApocalypse said:
Well, the quality of the dub is a fact to consider, as well. I can't imagine the Filipino dub market is nearly as grand as the English one on a global scale, so it would make sense that not as much time and effort is put into the dubbing process.


Especially if they're anything like those Singapore English dubs. Oh my God, those are so terrible.
\

True! I used to enjoy English dubs where ever they were made until quality kicked in, then came the "dubs are horrible!" from my offline peeps and I noticed that those that were of the US were of higher quality while those done in Singapore/ Hong Kong were utterly of low quality. Hell I watched K'ON! in both Official English Dub (via WatchCartoonsOnline and Youtube back then when Youtube wasn't a jerk) a and HK/S Dub (via Animax) and found a VERY HUGE (intended in highlighting this one) difference. I found the Official Dub highly superior that that or even as good if not better than the subbed version. The HK/ S dubbed one sounds like there was just one if not three dubbers and sounds so deadpan while the official version was clearly distinguishable as ever. Yes! Azusa in particular sounds old while in the official version she sounds so young and girly. Now I even remembered watching dothacks Sign and Legend of the Twilight as well as Chobits and I found the Official Dub still superior.
 
Aug 7, 2013 3:32 PM

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I started watching anime in dub, and ever since then I've been.. well.. used to it. Watching anime in the English version helps me understand the situations the characters are in and how the story is developing. Some of the subs have bad translations and they mess up what the characters are trying to say.

Let's just put it this way, I prefer the English dubs, but I don't mind the Japanese subs either. I'm watching Shingeki no Kyojin, which has been licensed by Funimation and I'm liking the voices so far. Though I'm excited to see what Funimation has in store for it. 8D

FMA and Black Lagoon are examples why there is a large number of people out there who prefer the English dubs.

"Even when our eyes are closed, there's a whole world out there that lives outside ourselves and our dreams."
 
Aug 7, 2013 3:34 PM

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SaberRitsu said:
I'll never understand dub haters. One of the arguments they use (To cover up the fact that they're just massive weeaboos) is that they just watch everything in its original language.

But here's the thing. Foreign movie dubs are widely regarded as being terrible. The voices just can't match up with what's happening on the screen. I don't know anyone who would get serious enjoyment out of watching dubbed foreign movies.

With anime, the majority of people in western countries don't care because... they're cartoons. There's nothing inheritly special about the original language of something that's usually made for kids. They don't have the same problems as live action films. The fact that people get so hot and bothered about people watching cartoons in their own language is beyond me.

tl;dr: Because I'm not a massive weeaboo


The truth!

"Even when our eyes are closed, there's a whole world out there that lives outside ourselves and our dreams."
 
Aug 7, 2013 3:58 PM

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My first anime (not counting the childhood animes) was Naruto and I did indeed watch that in dub.

There's a lot of reasons why I love dubs:
1. I just like the language better than japanese overall.
2. Don't have to read subtitles.
3. I like almost all of the VA's.
4. Japanese seiyuus tend to sound a lot like others, there's only with few whom I really recognize.

...and the list goes on, but those are my main reasons.

My favorite VA is undoubtly John Swasey. Listening to him as Captain Ahab from Hakugei: Legend of Moby Dick was ultimately perfect. I can't even think of a nitpick for that role, it's incredibly good!
 
Aug 7, 2013 4:48 PM

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xPhantomhive said:
SaberRitsu said:
I'll never understand dub haters. One of the arguments they use (To cover up the fact that they're just massive weeaboos) is that they just watch everything in its original language.

But here's the thing. Foreign movie dubs are widely regarded as being terrible. The voices just can't match up with what's happening on the screen. I don't know anyone who would get serious enjoyment out of watching dubbed foreign movies.


The truth!


Yes, that's absolutely true. It's very difficult to pull off an effective dub in live-action, especially a foreign one. Look at Roberto Benigni's Pinocchio! That movie was absolutely HIDEOUS dubbed (although it already was a dud entry), but the voices didn't match the actors' mouths OR expressions at all! I will say that Hideaki Anno's Cutie Honey wasn't TOO bad as a live-action dub, thanks to the talented Mike Sinterniklaas, but yeah, foreign live-action movies are better off subbed.
 
Aug 8, 2013 10:52 AM

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SaberRitsu said:
I'll never understand dub haters. One of the arguments they use (To cover up the fact that they're just massive weeaboos) is that they just watch everything in its original language.


(Except they don't. They watch it translated into English, same as us. In order to watch it in its original language, they'd have to speak Japanese.)
 
Aug 8, 2013 11:27 AM

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Live-action dubs are a different challenge altogether, as people want to hear the on-screen actor, especially if the person is a big name, speak the lines. But if it's CG animated live-action it's thought of the same as anime.
 
Aug 8, 2013 12:34 PM

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I... guess?

In foreign dubs, 99% of people will have no idea who the on-screen actor is. And an actor being in a movie is no basis to judge a movie on.
 
Aug 17, 2013 10:36 AM

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There are numerous reasons why I prefer watching the dubbed versions, but for now I'll mention just two of them. First is that I am generally working on projects while half watching and half listening to the anime so the dubs are far better in that regard.

Second is that I have comes across a few animes that in the subbed version just piss me off, the Japanese voice actors just sound much to passive and the dialog is annoying. Where as in the English dubbed version the dialog and the voice actors have a much stronger presence and the dialog comes across as witty and sarcastically comical.

Two examples of animes I nearly dropped because I couldn't stand the Japanese version:
Future Diary
Michiko E Hatchin

However I gave both of them another try when the first few episodes were released in English dubs and now I'm eager to watch more of these two series.
 
Aug 17, 2013 10:59 AM

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XTApocalypse said:
SaberRitsu said:
I'll never understand dub haters. One of the arguments they use (To cover up the fact that they're just massive weeaboos) is that they just watch everything in its original language.


(Except they don't. They watch it translated into English, same as us. In order to watch it in its original language, they'd have to speak Japanese.)


There is some logic missing here, the people who translate animes into English, whether as an English subtitles or English dub. They do know the Japanese language, they have a linguist (...person knowledge in languages) or basically someone there who is capable of translating the Japanese script into an English version. Then they modify it to accommodate cultural gaps and comical references.

In regard to the amateur subs those are most likely done by either Japanese individuals who have a decent grasp on the English language and culture. Or English literate individuals who are relatively literate with the Japanese culture and language. The official subs are done by (I'm assuming) Japanese companies who again have a reasonable understand of the English language, but may or may not take the cultural gaps into consideration.
 
Aug 17, 2013 1:52 PM

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I fail to see the missing logic. Who's translating it doesn't change the fact that it's a translation and thus not the original presentation.

Also, most professional subtitles are, to my knowledge, done by the English licensors of the series, like FUNimation, by someone highly fluent in both languages.
 
Nov 20, 2013 9:21 PM

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Pretty much what OP said. What little anime that aired in America (Pokemon, Yugioh, Naruto, etc.) is only dubbed, so I got used to them. Now that there are way more anime choices available to me I still stick with dubbed versions when possible because I appreciate the effort they put into them, and I find most of the English dubs quite good (Baka and Test, B Gata H Kei are my two favorite animes and I watched them dubbed). I am flattered that they choose our language to make a dub, and then again, maybe they chose to make the dub because the anime was good to begin with.
 
Dec 19, 2013 8:33 AM

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I'm not fluent in English but I happen to like English dubs.

The reason behind this is that don't like japanese... I try and I try to like it but the magic won't show up. Besides, English dubs sometimes are fun to listen to. I usually watch old animes with a touch of mystery, darkness, and v&p.

My main source is youtube, but the channels I relied on were closed, so I'm a bit lost lately, the quality and the size were good enough.
 
Dec 20, 2013 11:54 AM

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"V&P?"
 
Dec 21, 2013 11:02 AM

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wisetaner said:
Second is that I have comes across a few animes that in the subbed version just piss me off, the Japanese voice actors just sound much to passive and the dialog is annoying. Where as in the English dubbed version the dialog and the voice actors have a much stronger presence and the dialog comes across as witty and sarcastically comical.


^This^

Unless you understand Japanese, you just don't get the same kind of emotion behind what's being said in many cases. Sure, when things get to the extreme (audibly crying/laughing/anger/etc.) it's obvious, but sarcasm, flirting, and even just general conversational tones won't always come across clearly, or at all.

On top of that, one big reason for me is the simple fact that I have to actually read the subs. I'm huge on art and animation in anime, and any time that I've spent reading text is obviously time that I can't spend looking at what's on the screen. That becomes something of a mental conflict as I have to decide what's more important; read every single word on the screen in case it's something really important, or glance at it and get the gist so I can see the visuals? A perfect example; the ef series. The show has some of the most amazing animation I've ever seen, not just in the art quality but in the genius visual and camera effects that are implemented as well. A lot of those instances only last a few seconds at most, while there's dialogue. If I had to read subs, I'd have missed quite a bit of that.

Then there's also the fact that the quality of translation tends to be of a higher caliber in dubs as opposed to subs. There's certain things that just come across as sounding bland or mundane in subs, or things that don't even translate into English 100% accurately. You see these things happen often in subs, whereas in dubs, the translators will go the extra mile to word things a bit more sensibly for English speakers. For an example, take a look at Mirai Nikki's after credit sequences. They actually poked fun (or at least I hope) at this fact by having extraordinarily horrendous subs for those sequences; seriously, just watch the dub of them with the English subs on, it's ridiculous lol. I'll admit that they may have went to an extreme, but to an extent, it's a reality.
 
Mar 1, 2014 12:09 PM

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Mainly because when I first watched anime I watched it dubbed. Also I love English VAs so I will watch dubs to hear them. And to admit at times I feel lazy to watch the subbed version of anime (Eg: Fate/ Zero, Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Blue Exorcist) and to me some dubs surpass the Japanese like the FMA Series. For subs I'm okay with it and I don't have the usually problem of not catching up with the subtitles but it can be distracting at times. To top it off I like dubs because you can hear how the VA interprets the character if you watched the subbbed version first.
 
Mar 10, 2014 1:09 PM

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We have had to have this argument/discussion so much that We have crafted what We like to think is a near solid defense of our apparent needed-to-be-defended preference...buckle your seatbelts:

The unfortunate truth is that MOST 'subs rock, dubs suck' crusaders are mindless bandwagoning drones. When they got into the otaku universe they were influenced by a certain environment and came to know that the way to be 'cool' and to 'fit in' was to watch subtitled anime because its so much more original and authentic and uncensored. They have been taught this upon entry, we cannot fully blame them. Its like if your meeting someone for the first time through a friend and your friend tell you before you actually meet that "He's a dick", no matter what that person says or how seemingly reasonable and non-dickish he is, you have now been fed a prejudice that is hard to shake, and most don't try to shake it, they keep it with them and solidify it and spread it to others. This is how most prejudice in this world is spread and taught. Now... before we continue...people tend to glance over words so let us reiterate that this only applied to the Sub Crusaders we all know and love that swear that every dub sucks simply because they exist. To the credit of this inane argument dubs used to have a decent percentage of suckage (We'd say random percentage between 30-40%) when anime first became prevalent in the US and censorship ran rampant in the 90s into the early 2000s. As a dub lover we can admit this, it was very hit and miss then. As a generous historical estimate this general time of post ~2002 we believe this began to change. The 'cheesy' dubs of the 90s began to be replaced by dubs done by VA's who have matured their craft, censorship began to decrease and the video quality of English releases began to increase somewhat (this will always be an issue). Compounded on top of that, shows dubbed post 2005 we have been hard pressed to find many that have not ranged from 'acceptable to all' to 'pure excellence' and this partially due to the bankruptcy of American companies and the decline of US sales, US companies began to give fans more of what they wanted and that is better dubs so they can be influenced against fansubs and uncensored anime. Shows ripe with nudity like Queen's blade and others that include certain taboos (remember One Piece's first dub of Sanji's cigarette turned lollipop?) or violence that are uncensored and dubbed today would not have had a place in the US before. So now uncensored anime isn't the issue and is only done so on TV broadcast and not on video releases as they once were, and the overall quality of the dubbing process has increased, has this changed anything in the minds of the Sub Crusaders? Nope.

Fast forward to why we like dubs, its rather simple in nature. We don't speak Japanese. Yup that's how it starts, but it goes deeper than that. Since we don't speak Japanese not only do we not understand it logistically, it is phonetically a very different language (unlike a language like Spanish) therefore, things like tone, inflections, ACCENTS, nuance, sarcasm and linguistic detail will largely be lost and wasted on a non-speaker. Think of how you hear a person who 'doesn't speak English' as their native tongue when they try to speak to you and how they comprehend, it is a very basic block like form of the language and they don't understand all the detailed curvature of the language. Also note that is a person who has enough understanding to speak English to a person that is a native speaker, unlike the "Sub Crusaders" who overwhelmingly speak not a lick of conversational Japanese. We can understand and comprehend all that was intended to be so in a proper translation with spoken English vs plain text that not only doesn't have a definitive version (translation varies between sub groups) but can and often does miss all of that juicy nuance. Why would I want to watch something that doesn't have a definitive version, where from person to person we only get "the general idea" and not a specified spoken version everyone agrees on and can share that experience through?

Also in regards of the art of voice acting. We love it, we adore it. To bring a character to life through just vocals is an art within itself, and this is a recognized and award winning art, not simply to be dismissed as "because it exists, it sucks". These same Sub Crusaders will happily watch American cartoons, cgi animated movies and any other sort of animation where the same Voice Acting art is a necessity and find no fault with it, but when applied to Anime its suddenly an arm flailing offense. Sub crusaders NEVER would dare watch a show done in their native language (for poops and giggles lets say Family Guy), say "these guys voices suck" and go on to obtain a foreign dubbed version and watch with English subtitles, or mute their TV's and turn on closed captioning. If you wouldn't do any of these, why suddenly when it comes to anime do you suddenly have this raving urge to view in a language you neither speak nor understand and read it in your native language along the bottom. Deny if you like but you can never be as immersed in something doing this, there are two barriers impeding your potential complete enjoyment.

Who's opinion is valid here in these arguments? Not the self righteous sub crusader. But there are a few. There are the people who's sole reason are that they don't speak Japanese and don't want to hear something they don't understand and read something they do when they can do the opposite. Then there are the people who speak and understand fluently both Japanese and English. They are the only people who can honestly say one is better than the other if that is to be the debate, because they have the ability to evaluate equally between languages. Ever notice how you'll never hear a Sub Crusader say a sub sucks (not the translation but the voice acting)? Because they have no knowledge to say so. They would have no idea if a Japanese voice actor sucked or not. None. Its statistically impossible that ALL Japanese voice actors are great and somehow their English equivalents somehow lack the ability to act behind a microphone (also remembering that VAs doing non-anime are somehow universally acceptable). To native the majority of Japanese speakers a show could have a terrible Jap dub and Sub Crusaders would be puffing out their chest beating the drum of superiority, because it is in Japanese. They watch in something they cannot understand and claim its better than something they can understand. The only realm of our world I can excuse that making sense in is music, for music is universal.

All of that being said, we are not a hater of subs. We are a hater of the ignorance that follows the topic. Subs are fine for shows that aren't dubbed, for you have no option. We believe subtitles exist for the purpose of their creation: to aid in understanding a video in which the language of your understanding is not available and not to cling to for a feeling of superiority and elitism. We do understand and note those who have open minds about the subject and still would like to watch subs, and also those who do it for immersion purposes, this is not a blind rant without understanding. Also do not misunderstand, we are not saying all dubs are great and perfect and everyone must like them, we are just exposing the ill logic of the closed-mindedness of the Sub Crusaders. So far we only have one dub that we hate that we can openly recall, but even if we hate a dub, we can understand it.

P.S. First post, We're new!(group and site) Check us out and possibly friend us! xD
Modified by Lalaberri, Mar 10, 2014 10:24 PM
"Your only option is to marry him...after all, he did see your panties" - Matsukaze
 
Mar 10, 2014 2:58 PM

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Agree pretty much fully with the first paragraph. I don't entirely agree that one can't read nuances or judge performances in a foreign language without being fluent in it, though. At a certain point one has enough experience with a language and its context to gauge these, and I think many in the subbed communities have reached this point and could effectively critique Japanese voice acting if they actually bothered to do so. More often, though, they don't go out of their way, because as previously stated, they've already established in their minds that all Japanese acting is inherent superior to any dub acting.

In any case, the fact that I read your post to the end is something itself of merit.
 
Mar 10, 2014 6:01 PM

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The question shouldn't be why we like dubs; that is a given. The real question is, why do we have to justify our opinion to those Sub Zealots who don't listen to reason due to their preconceived notions?
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion.
 
Mar 11, 2014 8:44 AM

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gamer2710 said:
The question shouldn't be why we like dubs; that is a given. The real question is, why do we have to justify our opinion to those Sub Zealots who don't listen to reason due to their preconceived notions?


Well, hopefully to dispel those notions. Although the chances of that are pretty slim indeed. Unless you're willing to wade through the crap and really try to open a closed mind, it's better not to bother at all.
 
Mar 22, 2014 6:47 AM

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Lalaberri said:
We have had to have this argument/discussion so much that We have crafted what We like to think is a near solid defense of our apparent needed-to-be-defended preference...buckle your seatbelts:

The unfortunate truth is that MOST 'subs rock, dubs suck' crusaders are mindless bandwagoning drones. When they got into the otaku universe they were influenced by a certain environment and came to know that the way to be 'cool' and to 'fit in' was to watch subtitled anime because its so much more original and authentic and uncensored. They have been taught this upon entry, we cannot fully blame them. Its like if your meeting someone for the first time through a friend and your friend tell you before you actually meet that "He's a dick", no matter what that person says or how seemingly reasonable and non-dickish he is, you have now been fed a prejudice that is hard to shake, and most don't try to shake it, they keep it with them and solidify it and spread it to others. This is how most prejudice in this world is spread and taught. Now... before we continue...people tend to glance over words so let us reiterate that this only applied to the Sub Crusaders we all know and love that swear that every dub sucks simply because they exist. To the credit of this inane argument dubs used to have a decent percentage of suckage (We'd say random percentage between 30-40%) when anime first became prevalent in the US and censorship ran rampant in the 90s into the early 2000s. As a dub lover we can admit this, it was very hit and miss then. As a generous historical estimate this general time of post ~2002 we believe this began to change. The 'cheesy' dubs of the 90s began to be replaced by dubs done by VA's who have matured their craft, censorship began to decrease and the video quality of English releases began to increase somewhat (this will always be an issue). Compounded on top of that, shows dubbed post 2005 we have been hard pressed to find many that have not ranged from 'acceptable to all' to 'pure excellence' and this partially due to the bankruptcy of American companies and the decline of US sales, US companies began to give fans more of what they wanted and that is better dubs so they can be influenced against fansubs and uncensored anime. Shows ripe with nudity like Queen's blade and others that include certain taboos (remember One Piece's first dub of Sanji's cigarette turned lollipop?) or violence that are uncensored and dubbed today would not have had a place in the US before. So now uncensored anime isn't the issue and is only done so on TV broadcast and not on video releases as they once were, and the overall quality of the dubbing process has increased, has this changed anything in the minds of the Sub Crusaders? Nope.

Fast forward to why we like dubs, its rather simple in nature. We don't speak Japanese. Yup that's how it starts, but it goes deeper than that. Since we don't speak Japanese not only do we not understand it logistically, it is phonetically a very different language (unlike a language like Spanish) therefore, things like tone, inflections, ACCENTS, nuance, sarcasm and linguistic detail will largely be lost and wasted on a non-speaker. Think of how you hear a person who 'doesn't speak English' as their native tongue when they try to speak to you and how they comprehend, it is a very basic block like form of the language and they don't understand all the detailed curvature of the language. Also note that is a person who has enough understanding to speak English to a person that is a native speaker, unlike the "Sub Crusaders" who overwhelmingly speak not a lick of conversational Japanese. We can understand and comprehend all that was intended to be so in a proper translation with spoken English vs plain text that not only doesn't have a definitive version (translation varies between sub groups) but can and often does miss all of that juicy nuance. Why would I want to watch something that doesn't have a definitive version, where from person to person we only get "the general idea" and not a specified spoken version everyone agrees on and can share that experience through?

Also in regards of the art of voice acting. We love it, we adore it. To bring a character to life through just vocals is an art within itself, and this is a recognized and award winning art, not simply to be dismissed as "because it exists, it sucks". These same Sub Crusaders will happily watch American cartoons, cgi animated movies and any other sort of animation where the same Voice Acting art is a necessity and find no fault with it, but when applied to Anime its suddenly an arm flailing offense. Sub crusaders NEVER would dare watch a show done in their native language (for poops and giggles lets say Family Guy), say "these guys voices suck" and go on to obtain a foreign dubbed version and watch with English subtitles, or mute their TV's and turn on closed captioning. If you wouldn't do any of these, why suddenly when it comes to anime do you suddenly have this raving urge to view in a language you neither speak nor understand and read it in your native language along the bottom. Deny if you like but you can never be as immersed in something doing this, there are two barriers impeding your potential complete enjoyment.

Who's opinion is valid here in these arguments? Not the self righteous sub crusader. But there are a few. There are the people who's sole reason are that they don't speak Japanese and don't want to hear something they don't understand and read something they do when they can do the opposite. Then there are the people who speak and understand fluently both Japanese and English. They are the only people who can honestly say one is better than the other if that is to be the debate, because they have the ability to evaluate equally between languages. Ever notice how you'll never hear a Sub Crusader say a sub sucks (not the translation but the voice acting)? Because they have no knowledge to say so. They would have no idea if a Japanese voice actor sucked or not. None. Its statistically impossible that ALL Japanese voice actors are great and somehow their English equivalents somehow lack the ability to act behind a microphone (also remembering that VAs doing non-anime are somehow universally acceptable). To native the majority of Japanese speakers a show could have a terrible Jap dub and Sub Crusaders would be puffing out their chest beating the drum of superiority, because it is in Japanese. They watch in something they cannot understand and claim its better than something they can understand. The only realm of our world I can excuse that making sense in is music, for music is universal.

All of that being said, we are not a hater of subs. We are a hater of the ignorance that follows the topic. Subs are fine for shows that aren't dubbed, for you have no option. We believe subtitles exist for the purpose of their creation: to aid in understanding a video in which the language of your understanding is not available and not to cling to for a feeling of superiority and elitism. We do understand and note those who have open minds about the subject and still would like to watch subs, and also those who do it for immersion purposes, this is not a blind rant without understanding. Also do not misunderstand, we are not saying all dubs are great and perfect and everyone must like them, we are just exposing the ill logic of the closed-mindedness of the Sub Crusaders. So far we only have one dub that we hate that we can openly recall, but even if we hate a dub, we can understand it.

P.S. First post, We're new!(group and site) Check us out and possibly friend us! xD





^THIS^ thank god there's people like you who understands but you know its sad that I even go on dubbing company websites or Facebook and those nasty obnoxious sub purist STILL BITCH AND MOAN about dubs like for example I went on funimation's Facebook and saw there latest dubbing trailers for "Attack on Titan" and what did I see nothing but those freaking PURIST complaining about the characters voices It's like why WHY WHY do we have to keep explain to these people to back off and stay away from dubs or explain ourselves and reason to supporting dub anime because all they do is say "DUB SUCK or OR HIS OR" HER VOICES DON'T MATCH"" SUBS ARE ALWAYS BETTER" but these pricks are so hypocritical to say things such as theses because they and enjoy dub actors work in american cartoon but when there voice work is in anime it's like the end of the world sigh I'm so sick and tired of these people I can't even enjoy anime without thinking about them it urks me so much because I like anime but these annoying purist Keep popping up and making me feel bad or guilty for like something outside of american in my native language it's not right I even sometimes feel lesser than them and it bothers me a lot So I thank you for understanding us because I know I shouldn't be feeling how I feel when I watch a dubbed anime Its our preference so why do we get attack for it which is a complete mystery sometimes I even feel like the dubbing community is treated like movies remakes or like how society treats Gays or Asexual because people cant except their sexuality....sigh It's 2014 and some people still suck and will always will I guess =(
 
Mar 22, 2014 11:07 AM

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Feels like there should be a period or two somewhere in there.
 
Mar 22, 2014 2:44 PM

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XTApocalypse said:
Feels like there should be a period or two somewhere in there.

Sorry for the grammar issues but I was simply speaking my mind. Feel free to disagree with what I say in my previous post but yeah, Dub haters suck and so do purist. They are bullies and do nothing but attack Dubs and us for our preference, so I thinks its wrong.
 
Mar 23, 2014 12:12 AM

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I prefer dubs over subs for a few reasons. English is my 2nd language and due to that fact I have to rewind quite a few times due to not finishing reading or because the dialogue was crucial to the plot and I had to read with intense comprehension. I appreciate the scenery and backgrounds and most of all the expressions of characters. I can't experience that so well when my eyes are glued to the bottom third of the screen most of the time. I also don't like the fact that I'm not allowed to look away from the screen for even a second or else I'll miss an entire piece of dialogue sometimes. I've learned that admitting that you watch dubbed anime makes you an instant newbie and you can't be seen as a real anime fan, but I'll carry that burden ;)
"Kan jy jou idee van normaal by jou gat opdruk!" -Fokofpolisiekar

 
Mar 23, 2014 5:49 PM

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Because watching subbed anime is like looking at a beautiful sculpture with a great big juice stain on it. It takes your attention away from complimenting it's beauty.
Modified by SwatKat1990, Mar 23, 2014 7:51 PM
 
Mar 23, 2014 6:40 PM

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SwatKat1990 said:
Because watching subbed anime is like looking at a beautiful sculpture with a great big juice stain on it




LOLZ!! Not to mention that some sub purist always go out there hardest to convince us to watch anime sub..........sigh that annoys the crap out of me.
 
Mar 23, 2014 6:45 PM

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XTApocalypse said:
SaberRitsu said:
I'll never understand dub haters. One of the arguments they use (To cover up the fact that they're just massive weeaboos) is that they just watch everything in its original language.


(Except they don't. They watch it translated into English, same as us. In order to watch it in its original language, they'd have to speak Japanese.)


AGREED! That is why I'll never understand the argument of that we are so called " don't know what were missing" I still don't see how they can look past our way of enjoying and and say that were not true or real fans and calling us illiterate or slow readers and stuff. This elitism is sad I must say.........
 
Mar 30, 2014 5:32 AM

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Hello ^_^ Well, the reason why I love watching dubs more than subs is because 1.) they're a hell lot easier to follow!! And to understand! I'm glad that I don't have to read the freaking subtitles everytime. I can't watch and read at the same time when watching subs. -.-" another reason why I prefer dubs is because there are plenty of decent and flawless voice actors that can voice the characters just as good as the original Japanese casts. :D

Jerry Jewell, Travis Willingham, Kieth Silverstein, Vic Mignogna, Johnny Yong Bosch, Steven Blum, etc are REALLY talented as the characters they voice in anime. And who can forget that famous line for the voice actor of Vegeta? "It's OVER NINE THOUSAND!" XD
 
Mar 30, 2014 6:30 AM

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JakeJenMiller said:
Hello ^_^ Well, the reason why I love watching dubs more than subs is because 1.) they're a hell lot easier to follow!! And to understand! I'm glad that I don't have to read the freaking subtitles everytime. I can't watch and read at the same time when watching subs. -.-" another reason why I prefer dubs is because there are plenty of decent and flawless voice actors that can voice the characters just as good as the original Japanese casts. :D

Jerry Jewell, Travis Willingham, Kieth Silverstein, Vic Mignogna, Johnny Yong Bosch, Steven Blum, etc are REALLY talented as the characters they voice in anime. And who can forget that famous line for the voice actor of Vegeta? "It's OVER NINE THOUSAND!" XD


It's like I always say, watching subbed anime is like looking at a beautiful sculpture with a great big juice stain on it, it takes your attention away from complimenting it's beauty.
 
Apr 10, 2014 7:19 PM

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Ginkoart said:
Baby_Naruto said:
I like English Dubs because I dont have to read subtitles, simple as that really.


For me as well XD.

Well primarily I feel subtitles take away from the viewing experience to an extent, and I don't have to switch back and forth between what is occurring on screen and reading (unless it's subtitles featured on the opening/ending credits, but otherwise I prefer dubs).


^ This. Plus since I first started watching anime around 10 years ago the quality of English voice acting has gotten much better. Rarely does it make me cringe anymore... like Love Hina and Hellsing (Crispin Freeman was the only saving grace as Alucard) did. The latest series that I had to watch in sub was Bakemonogatari and the dialogue moved so fast that I could hardly absorb it and the sense of humor definitely seemed to get lost in translation imo. To me it was a reminder of why I like dub so much.
 
Apr 10, 2014 7:42 PM

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What in the world was wrong with Hellsing?
 
Apr 21, 2014 6:33 AM

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I couldn't stand Seras Victoria's voice acting... Understandable right? I think there's a number of people that would agree and the voice actor has only ever had the one role..
http://myanimelist.net/people/301/Katharine_Gray
 
Apr 21, 2014 9:04 AM

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There are a lot who agree with you, but I don't understand them at all either. She sounded absolutely authentic, not the least bit fake, and I thought her voice was adorable.
 
Apr 21, 2014 3:59 PM

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i like dubs for many reasons.

the first is dubs are just easier to watch. i mean if i marathon more than like 8 episodes subbed my eyes start to hurt but with dubs i can watch entire shows in 1 sitting.

2. no matter what anyone says it is a fact that if a character speaks a different language you will have a harder time relating to him/her. yes this is a fact because it is in our instincts and is even acknowledged by hollywood and most professional story writers. why do you think in a lot of movies the bad guys dont speak english or happen to be a different in some way from the target audience. it is to take advantage of the raw instinct that humans have which is different=bad.

3. the voice acting: unlike what the dub haters think dubs are not badly acted. yes some of them are but most arent. dubs just use a different style of acting than the japanese version uses. in the japanese version of shows they tend to utilize overacting more while dubs tend to go for more of a realistic style. now neither of these 2 options are bad they are just different and like i said above humans instinct tells us that different= bad which isnt true. this is why you often prefer the version of a show you saw first. also since the japanese version goes for more overacting while the english version goes for more of a realistic version it is easy to see why people assume there is more emotion in the japanese version.

4. introducing new people to anime and anime becoming mainstream: you cant get people into anime by showing them subbed anime it doesnt work like that; it just doesnt.
Just because you know how to use a torrent does not give you the god given right to pirate.

check out my youtube channel for my review: https://www.youtube.com/user/mattbenz99

steam: mattbenz99 feel free to add me but please pm on either there or here
 
Apr 23, 2014 2:30 AM

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@XTApocalypse Fair enough. To each their own ;)

@mattbenz99 I second your analysis.
 
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