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Virtual, Drawn, and Non-Real Child Pornography (lolis etc)

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#1
04-11-10, 3:11 PM

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Should this be against the law? Should it be illegal, and wrong to view this type of pornography?

(It's legal in the United States, but Illegal in the European Union)
 
#2
04-11-10, 3:13 PM

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They are not fucking real... ;_; so it should be legal.

inb4americafuckyeah!
 
#3
04-11-10, 3:27 PM

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Protection of imaginary children, lol.

I'm not a fan of loli hentai etc. but it's a worrying leap backwards for the freedom of expression.

Besides, how would they prove what age the character is, that would be up to the artist.

Is it if they have a flat chest? What does that say to women who are 18+ that have flat chests? That they look like children?

(How's that?)
<img src="http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e297/kitsu_ayame/Untitled-6.png" />
 
#4
04-11-10, 3:30 PM

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Yuruku said:
Should this be against the law? Should it be illegal, and wrong to view this type of pornography?

(It's legal in the United States, but Illegal in the European Union)


Not illegal?

Sir, I beg to differ, as someone has already been convicted for possessing loli porn.
All of my FAL results so far.
 
#5
04-11-10, 3:35 PM

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chinlamp said:
Yuruku said:
Should this be against the law? Should it be illegal, and wrong to view this type of pornography?

(It's legal in the United States, but Illegal in the European Union)


Not illegal?

Sir, I beg to differ, as someone has already been convicted for possessing loli porn.
for importing loli porn.
 
#6
04-11-10, 3:37 PM

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*sigh* Not this again...

It should not be legal, based on the prudence principle.
A past can last a lifetime.
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#7
04-11-10, 3:42 PM

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I shall not allow my lolis to be taken away! D:


 
#8
04-11-10, 3:46 PM

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There's no need to ban it entirely. It is true that children shouldn't watch any porn(yet), but to ban it entirely is wrong based on principle and ineffective based on the availability of information in this age. This would be like the prohibition era in the US, when alcohol was banned, but people get them anyways.
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#9
04-11-10, 3:47 PM

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Yuruku said:
chinlamp said:
Yuruku said:
Should this be against the law? Should it be illegal, and wrong to view this type of pornography?

(It's legal in the United States, but Illegal in the European Union)


Not illegal?

Sir, I beg to differ, as someone has already been convicted for possessing loli porn.
for importing loli porn.


Same thing really. They used manga that he already owned that was in his house to try and make his sentence longer. And if it's illegal to import, it stands to reason it's already illegal to own.
All of my FAL results so far.
 
04-11-10, 3:48 PM

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Why ban them if they don't exist? Why should we care for the well-being of virtual children?

Certainly someone can be influenced to molest children as a result of virtual kiddie porn, but I could also be influenced to kill because of violent movies that glorify death. Why not ban violent movies as well?
 
04-11-10, 4:29 PM

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It's illegal in the EU now? Good thing we kept out of it.

If fictional depictions of child abuse is illegal, then so should all fictional depictions of illegal acts, meaning no more violent games, movies, books or lyrics. And any mention of drugs or speeding? Ban that too, etc etc etc. It's a matter of principle.
Bloody moralfags.

Eigi man ek þá lǫg jómsvikinga ef ek kviði við bana eða mæla ek æðruorð. Eitt sinn skal hverr deyja
 
04-11-10, 4:32 PM

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Gogetters said:
I shall not allow my lolis to be taken away! D:


I'm 100% with you!
CANCER!
LOL!
 
04-11-10, 4:37 PM

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Gogetters said:
I shall not allow my lolis to be taken away! D:

xD
 
04-11-10, 4:37 PM

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The purpose of making real child porn illegal is to prevent minors from being taken advantage of. Correct?
I'll admit, I think any form of child porn, real or drawn, is disgusting, but if it's drawn, nobody is hurt. Nobody loses anything. This is one thing that should be left up to the culture to decide, and if there are branches of the culture that enjoy virtual kiddies goin' at it, so be it. Nobody loses anything. Not a single thing.
 
04-11-10, 4:46 PM

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chinlamp said:
Yuruku said:
Should this be against the law? Should it be illegal, and wrong to view this type of pornography?

(It's legal in the United States, but Illegal in the European Union)


Not illegal?

Sir, I beg to differ, as someone has already been convicted for possessing loli porn.


For obscenity charges, the same reason Max Hardcore got jail for pissing and abusing women in porn. As long as you don't order it through the mail you're fine.
"When he will, the weary world
Of the senses closely curled
Like a serpent round his heart
Shakes herself and stands apart."
- A.C., Equinox I/I
 
04-11-10, 4:50 PM

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It's funny, because this is quite probably the most discussed legal issue on MAL.
 
04-11-10, 5:33 PM

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hikky said:
It's funny, because this is quite probably the most discussed legal issue on MAL.

Quite true, I am getting sick of it.
A past can last a lifetime.
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04-11-10, 5:42 PM

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Hotstrawberry said:
Protection of imaginary children, lol.

I'm not a fan of loli hentai etc. but it's a worrying leap backwards for the freedom of expression.

Besides, how would they prove what age the character is, that would be up to the artist.

Is it if they have a flat chest? What does that say to women who are 18+ that have flat chests? That they look like children?

(How's that?)

eh, this takes the cake
nothing here move along
 
04-11-10, 6:18 PM

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It's better for them to look and read about it, then go out and do it with a child. I don't like it but if it floats there boat, fine.

+Berri's post.
 
04-11-10, 6:46 PM

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I don't those arts either but I do admit some are very well drawn.
 
04-11-10, 7:41 PM

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Like the guy that got arrested for having loli porn. He ended up getting out of it, but got thousands of dollars in fines.

Even if it depicts children, it's not real. Honestly, it's just a bunch of Christfags trying to say what's right and what isn't.
 
04-11-10, 8:09 PM

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It should not be against the law. There is no reason why it should.
 
04-11-10, 8:25 PM

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Gogetters said:
I shall not allow my lolis to be taken away! D:


I my gf is still considered a lolita

but i have her mothers approval O_o !

wont do anything nast to her though.
I do have Kagetsu Tohya, the only loli porn i currently have due to the VN's content...should i still go to jail then? :D

btw, hail liberty of expression...hail 4chan too
"Got it?this is what it means to kill things"
 
04-11-10, 9:28 PM

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I think more or less the argument is that this type of porn leads to real life acts.

But I dont see them proving that any time soon
 
04-11-10, 10:31 PM

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Nasuversepro said:
Gogetters said:
I shall not allow my lolis to be taken away! D:


I my gf is still considered a lolita

but i have her mothers approval O_o !

wont do anything nast to her though.
I do have Kagetsu Tohya, the only loli porn i currently have due to the VN's content...should i still go to jail then? :D

btw, hail liberty of expression...hail 4chan too
......


Wtf?


 
04-11-10, 10:37 PM

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Nasuversepro said:
Gogetters said:
I shall not allow my lolis to be taken away! D:


I my gf is still considered a lolita

but i have her mothers approval O_o !

wont do anything nast to her though.

Why are you dating a 12 year old..? >.<
 
04-11-10, 11:17 PM

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Too cute to be illegal.

Old avatar and sig retired for now.
 
04-12-10, 12:03 AM

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i like kitty pron
 
04-12-10, 12:39 AM

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chinlamp said:
Yuruku said:
Should this be against the law? Should it be illegal, and wrong to view this type of pornography?

(It's legal in the United States, but Illegal in the European Union)


Not illegal?

Sir, I beg to differ, as someone has already been convicted for possessing loli porn.


Then you have a terrible lawyer.

(8) “child pornography” means any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where—
(A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;
(B) such visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or
(C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct.

(11) the term “indistinguishable” used with respect to a depiction, means virtually indistinguishable, in that the depiction is such that an ordinary person viewing the depiction would conclude that the depiction is of an actual minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct. This definition does not apply to depictions that are drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting minors or adults.

Taken from Cornell University
http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002256----000-.html
It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die.
 
04-12-10, 1:03 AM

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Loli porn is nice.
And, as mentioned above, I don't think that loli=child porn. I mean, they are not real. Let's forbid playing video games, for everyone - people are killed! That's kinda ridiculous.
Excalibur, Excalibur,
From the United Kingdom
I'm looking for him,
I'm going to California.

 
04-12-10, 3:19 AM

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As I've said in similar threads in the past, I think it's nonsense. Child porn laws were made to protect children; pictures of fictional characters don't need protecting. It's just prosecuting thought crimes because people are turned on by the images, which I personally don't really see the problem with, on a base level (sure, lolicons are weird, I'm not sure how people could be turned on by prepubescent looks) but since they're not raping real kids or molesting their cousins or children or whatever else, I don't care.

Though to extend the above parenthesised thought, there are quite a number of mature (legal) characters that are depicted as lolis, and if people are turned on by them because of who the character is and their personality that they like, eg. Konata, then they have every right to fap to images of them. I only find it worrisome when they really are fapping to child characters (such as the girls from Ichigo Mashimaro, or any other moe show with < 16yos).
 
04-12-10, 5:37 AM

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Loli porn was invented to keep paedophiles out of gaol.
Kud Wafter anyone?
 
04-12-10, 6:13 AM

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If people are into that stuff, that's what's scary about it.
I mean if they get a turn on by it through Anime isn't that perverted even though it is only make believe? So in that sense, yes, it is VERY wrong. I don't care if people disagree, it is. Face the facts.

But saying that, people could complain how people get enjoyment out of gorey, bloody, murder stories. Like myself.
 
04-12-10, 6:18 AM

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Asako just made me miss Lucky Star, like, so much. I haven't done something Lucky Star in a while since it's been over, and I miss it. I need another season or something more real bad.;_;

Konata is awesome and has a fantastic one could only dream of finding in someone. And yeah, she's considered loli at least by most places on the internet. Quite a few people have been banned from sites with porn sections for posting Konata under "no-lolicon" rules.

It's a sad sad sad sad world when someone becomes prosecuted for Kona pictures.

Old avatar and sig retired for now.
 
04-12-10, 6:27 AM

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Jiynnx said:
If people are into that stuff, that's what's scary about it.
I mean if they get a turn on by it through Anime isn't that perverted even though it is only make believe? So in that sense, yes, it is VERY wrong. I don't care if people disagree, it is. Face the facts.

But saying that, people could complain how people get enjoyment out of gorey, bloody, murder stories. Like myself.
So... watching porn is perverted too. That makes it wrong? Also the word Hentai means perverted.


 
04-12-10, 6:49 AM

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Jiynnx said:
If people are into that stuff, that's what's scary about it.
I mean if they get a turn on by it through Anime isn't that perverted even though it is only make believe? So in that sense, yes, it is VERY wrong. I don't care if people disagree, it is. Face the facts.
Normally, there is no hope for moralfags who use "right" and "wrong" like you do here.
But luckily for you...
But saying that, people could complain how people get enjoyment out of gorey, bloody, murder stories. Like myself.
You seem to at least realize how fallacious your statement was.
Modified by Baman, 04-12-10, 7:03 AM

Eigi man ek þá lǫg jómsvikinga ef ek kviði við bana eða mæla ek æðruorð. Eitt sinn skal hverr deyja
 
04-12-10, 7:04 AM

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Illegal in Europe? What? why haven't i heard anything about it... :F

Well, doesn't really matter, i continue to enjoy my lolis till i'm v&

 
04-12-10, 8:09 AM

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Personally i think loli porn is absolutely disgusting. But hay it doesnt depict or hurt any real person so its really a wast of time, money and effort to ban it. (Assuming that your talking to someone who is capable of rational thought)

Especially if you look at the WHOLE picture. Surely it would be a felony offense to have it in the US if it was illegal, and thus making people who otherwise have never done anything wrong felons and then theres that many more people that would have to be housed in a prison (at guess whos cost). Then after they get out they would have to register as a sex offender and then that makes that persons life a living hell for the rest of his days. And all because someone wanted to look good for the cameras.
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04-12-10, 8:28 AM

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okei.....first it is illegal (drawings depicting minors in a sexual way, thank you wikipeida). And you can get finned for distributing and coping such material. I do like some hentai/yaoi/shota (im getting too old for that one). AND I think their private parts shouldn't be shown or should be blurred out.

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors
 
04-12-10, 8:56 AM

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Even if they are not real, I still think it's a sick and twisted idea. It might even tempt some people to go out and actually do it. I don't really understand why someone would want to view an underage character in sexual circumstances to begin with. I guess they just need a girlfriend.
 
04-12-10, 9:15 AM

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aLeaf said:
AND I think their private parts shouldn't be shown or should be blurred out.
Why on earth should there be any need to do that?
After all, you don't get loli or shota hentai unless you actually look for it, and thus, censoring it would not benefit those who don't like it and don't watch it, but only piss of those who do want it.
It would be just like if one of those religious groups that can't eat pork or whatever that hasn't been specially prepared, were to make that unavailable for everyone else as well. A complete waste of time that no one benefits from at all.

Eigi man ek þá lǫg jómsvikinga ef ek kviði við bana eða mæla ek æðruorð. Eitt sinn skal hverr deyja
 
04-12-10, 9:28 AM

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They could be cencoring it since they can't get rid of it to piss the people who like it off?
Thats the only benefit i can see....


 
04-12-10, 10:41 AM

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Gogetters said:
They could be cencoring it since they can't get rid of it to piss the people who like it off?
Thats the only benefit i can see....
But why would it be a benefit to piss of someone who does not hurt you in anyway? If it's just because they like something you don't like, then why couldn't I get the CG R2 DVDs butchered by censors?

The whole point with a authoritative state is that they are supposed to take some of your freedom in order to ensure your safety. But censoring anything does not make anyone any more secure, so that's basically unnecessary use of authority. Of course, when something like loli hentai is banned, few people really care about it, I wouldn't either, was it not for the fact that it is a matter of principle, and if you stand by idly as they remove something you don't like, what will you do when they come for something you do like?

Eigi man ek þá lǫg jómsvikinga ef ek kviði við bana eða mæla ek æðruorð. Eitt sinn skal hverr deyja
 
04-12-10, 1:08 PM

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aLeaf said:
okei.....first it is illegal (drawings depicting minors in a sexual way, thank you wikipeida). And you can get finned for distributing and coping such material. I do like some hentai/yaoi/shota (im getting too old for that one). AND I think their private parts shouldn't be shown or should be blurred out.

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors


Wait wait wait, Cornell University a famous "LAW SCHOOL" is wrong, but wikipedia, is right and ultimate authority of Child Pornography Law?

where you dropped on your head when you where younger?
It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die.
 
04-12-10, 1:13 PM

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Why does this thread keep coming back with an alternative title? Whatever, I'll just repeat myself like I have been doing. We should defend fiction no matter what the content.
 
04-13-10, 1:09 AM

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I guess the forum may add a "sage" check box if posters do not want to bump the thread.

>I still think it's a sick and twisted idea ...
Well if somebody think Simpsons' yellow faces are sick depiction of human, should the series be banned or change the skin color?

But I won't defend any kind of fiction.
The matter depends on the relation to reality.

Fiction or information details enough to educate the public on how to perform dangerous acts are often banned, such as sites or novel or manga with content teaching people how to make poisons, explosives etc. Fortunately the chance is low and is guarded by strict licensing in most developed countries. But the restriction is the same everywhere.

Minor sexual graphics are really stepping into the borderline.
If you like the artists, you'd probably wish they share the same standard in your own country so that you can buy their works safely. (If you really care about the arts more than the porn)
 
04-13-10, 1:11 AM

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zharnotczar said:
The purpose of making real child porn illegal is to prevent minors from being taken advantage of. Correct?
I'll admit, I think any form of child porn, real or drawn, is disgusting, but if it's drawn, nobody is hurt. Nobody loses anything. This is one thing that should be left up to the culture to decide, and if there are branches of the culture that enjoy virtual kiddies goin' at it, so be it. Nobody loses anything. Not a single thing.


The only problem with your post is calling drawings child porn. If it's drawn it cannot be child porn because it isn't real.
 
04-13-10, 2:20 AM

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Drunk_Samurai said:
zharnotczar said:
The purpose of making real child porn illegal is to prevent minors from being taken advantage of. Correct?
I'll admit, I think any form of child porn, real or drawn, is disgusting, but if it's drawn, nobody is hurt. Nobody loses anything. This is one thing that should be left up to the culture to decide, and if there are branches of the culture that enjoy virtual kiddies goin' at it, so be it. Nobody loses anything. Not a single thing.


The only problem with your post is calling drawings child porn. If it's drawn it cannot be child porn because it isn't real.


Yes and No, if it's a drawing of a real person, then it's child pornography, if it's fictional character then it's not child pornography.
It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die.
 
04-13-10, 5:38 AM

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I think governments should put the resources they waste on stuff like this into more worthwhile matters; like solving global hunger or creating world peace. -Then- we can break out the really stupid things to argue over, like whether or not anyone should care about the rights of pixels and paper.
 
04-13-10, 5:56 AM
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Baman said:
Gogetters said:
They could be cencoring it since they can't get rid of it to piss the people who like it off?
Thats the only benefit i can see....
But why would it be a benefit to piss of someone who does not hurt you in anyway? If it's just because they like something you don't like, then why couldn't I get the CG R2 DVDs butchered by censors?

The whole point with a authoritative state is that they are supposed to take some of your freedom in order to ensure your safety. But censoring anything does not make anyone any more secure, so that's basically unnecessary use of authority. Of course, when something like loli hentai is banned, few people really care about it, I wouldn't either, was it not for the fact that it is a matter of principle, and if you stand by idly as they remove something you don't like, what will you do when they come for something you do like?
Go ask the Japanese. They love to censor the genitalia, while showing some unique porn that's rarely seen in any other culture. Amazing really.
 
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