| Translation Arcadia Tier List, Feb; Author: Pachi Litchi: Exceptional reach and space control with staff, so very good in tachimawari (general moving around zoning outside of set-plays). Her combos easily carry people to the corner, which you could say is her special ability. Exceptionally strong oki after this, can result in guard crush followed by more corner oki pressure. Great rush down ability. Her 6428C Distortion Drive comes out slower than before, but there is less time after the super flash, so it can be harder to block. You can't net as much damage off her invincible 623D with staff (Tsubame-gaeshi), but just the fact that she has a good meterless reversal is enough. She has really good overheads and lows whether she has her staff or not, and her 632146D (with or without staff), and 41236D are all good for block pressure, so she has excellent guard crush potential. Bang: His average damage output is a little lower than Lichi, but he has various ways to quickly close on his opponent (air dash behind B or D shuriken, using his nails), and has a lot of variety in his offensive game. With his combination of lows, overheads and command grab, he can get around people's guard better than anyone in the game, and has many ways to cause trouble. His various D attacks with their guard points, and his invincible 236236D allow for some really strong abare that he can quickly turn into his own offensive pressure. Plus he has his "ultimate weapon" - fuurinkazan. He always has the potential to comeback with this, whatever the situation. Between his combos in fuurinkazan, and his growth potential as people experiment with him, I don't see him falling down the tier list. Ragna: Good reach with his normals, and safe combos based around his new in-air 214C (Belial Edge) are his key points. He also has his great reversal (C Inferno Divider), which gives you back a great proportion of health, and since you will be able to RC it once you move into the nitty gritty of the fight, you could argue he has the best defence of any character. Has great damage potential off his overhead Gauntlet Hades, and you can use it fairly risk free by RCing it. In some areas including his Blood Kain combos that regenerate his health, he has plenty of growth potential. Hakumen: With great reach on his j.C and 4C, he can zone and build meter whilst applying pressure! He can also guard crush quickly, and then deliver devastating combos. He has plenty of defensive moves that can lead to big damage on hit thanks to his drive, like j.D. Very hard to punish him for it it compared to how much damage he can do if it works. However, his counters do carry considerable risk if they don't work, and his lack of speed tells against characters who are good from far range. Now with his super high damage max damage combo off 6D, he is the character who is closest to the S rank characters. Carl: Behind Nirvana and her 412D projectile, his offensive pressure is very good. He has the best block pressure of any character if you can pin the opponent between Carl and Nirvana. His new gatling combos give him good guard break potential, so even though it isn't to quite the same extent as the first game, he can still suddenly do tons of damage. You can use resets after a guard break very successfully, as even if they manage to guard your follow up they're in trouble, and if they don't they are *really* in trouble. Very good when he has a life lead, Nirvana allows him to be very safe in tachimawari and avoid the opponent making a quick comeback. On the other hand, his low health and lack of speed mean he is in trouble if the opponent gets the early life lead on him Arakune: Lowest damage output in the game without landing curse, most dangerous and explosive damage output once he lands it. People are making good strides in coming up with non-curse combos to build curse meter quickly, so it's getting easier for him to create a chance to land it. His guard crush and curse combos are being improved on all the time, as well as his post-curse set play designed to refill his curse gauge. Nearly A-class, but he has a couple of bad matchups, so you can basically decide how good he is based on the player who is playing him. Hazama: Has good zoning and combos from his long range D attacks. Can build his gauge quickly, and has quick drive attacks that are great at interrupting your opponent, and do good damage. If you don't make any mistakes with him, he has excellent damage output and builds meter exceptionally well, but he doesn't have a lot of options from mid-range, and totally relies on his drive for defence, so he still has areas for concern. Taokaka: The absolute best character for quickly moving to close-range thanks to her dashing D attacks, she is great up close but not very good at making comebacks, so you have to go all-out early to keep your opponent off balance. Her taunt combos are pretty tough to get right, but improve her damage output so much that her tier placing will largely depend on if people perfect them or not. Her low health also means she can lose rounds pretty quickly. Lamda: Great ranged zoning with D attacks, and the best character in the game for removing guard primers through chip damage. Can guard crush from far away, and can catch characters who try to avoid her attacks. Also, her combos from 236C, and her low in-air 214D loops in the corner allow her great meterless damage output. She is moving up the tiers, but her bad matchups against Tao and Bang still really give her problems. Jin: 236A/B/C (note: doesn't specify which strength), 2D, and j.C are great zoning tools, and lead to straightforward tachimawari. He can also use his gauge efficiently doing good damage using his D special moves. He has really good block pressure, and can fight any character without too many problems, but he lacks any real stand-out abilities. He doesn't have any real weaknesses, either, so you could say overall he has more potential to become stronger than weaker. Noel: She has strong counter attack ability thanks to her standing D that becomes invulnerable. This carries some risk, but has way more potential reward, so she can be aggressive with it. She has decent guard crush ability, and her combos including 22B/C are rapidly becoming more damaging. Her normals aren't as good as before, though, so she can be easily put on the back foot in tachimawari. It's not that she's weak per se, more that it's hard to find a *consistent* way to win with her. Tager: Very strong anti-air, and his new 22D move gives him more opportunities to take one opening and turn it into something serious than in the previous game. His 720 throw can now be activated by hammering C whilst turning the stick around, so it's easier to interrupt attack strings, and deal big damage. Once someone really gets their anti-Tager play sorted, it's very hard for him in tachimawari. You wouldn't necessarily want to meet him in a tourney because he *can* beat you if he just gets one chance, but characters like this still have to be low on a tier list. Tsubaki: At first it looked like she was going to be down there with Rachel on the tier list, but her unblockable fully-charged 22+D, her 2C anti-air, and her 623+A/B/C/D (note: doesn't specify which strength) for interrupting opponent's attacks are all strong, so she is rising a little in the rankings. Her lack of ranged normals really hurt her zoning game, and it can be hard to build her install gauge against some characters. She's an up-close character who lacks ways to get in, which is not ideal, but it's still possible that people could find good ways of getting up close, and then she would rise up the tiers. Rachel: 236A/B/C, 214C, and her wind still give her good zoning allowing her to compete even in this sequel. She also has good guard crush ability in certain situations, and isn't bad in tachimawari. However, she has poor comeback ability, little health, and poor damage output, so if you're drawn into a fight she doesn't do too well. People are finding ways to improve her damage output a little, but it will be a while before she catches up to other characters. She does have some characters she does well against, though, so you couldn't say she's terrible. |
MassakiMar 31, 2010 2:39 PM
| You know, this did fit into the comments section. =x But, yeah, it's cleaner here. Now, let's see where Mu and the console rebalancing will fit into this. |
MassakiMar 31, 2010 2:40 PM
| Boy I was late and didn't see this 'til now. Though I think it is dated by this point. |
| Still fresh |
| heh, so now playing against Tager is even more of a "don't mess up or you die" kind of thing? I can handle that. Also > Very strong anti-air is much better than no anti air. |
| Things I want to see: Ragna - He's fine. Just nerf Belial damage/proration. Jin - Also fine. Just make 6A not so unbelievably harmless, special cancel on block, etc. Though return 5D to being quick if it's only EX cancellable. Noel - Make some normals not suck so much like make 5B jump cancellable. Return 2D as overhead, give flash kick some invincibility or upperhead invincibility (im srs). Remove certain retarded combo loops. Rachel - Boost damage on certain normals, better frame advantage on certain normals. Unretard j.2C just a bit. Give Dahlia a use somehow. Tao - Give her just a bit more life srsly. Carl - Perfectly fine. Maybe make Brio only barrier blockable in air. Litchi - Nerf damage, proration around. Add more recovery to mist cancels. Nerf 6D frame advantage. Arakune - Unretard damage output a bit in fever mode. Increase general speed and mobility. Limit runaway methods. Tager - He's fine. But make his counter assault better please. Maybe make sledge followup + on block. Bang - Return B nail to not carrying momentum. Remove new j.4C it's such a stupidly unnecessary move. Return 623B to not being so fast. Don't create a bounce state after air throw (for 5k daifuunka follow up). Hakumen - Unretard stupid free damage. Return 3C and j.214C to not leaving so much knockdown time. Reduce j.C one level or increase startup animation. Disallow stupid combo followups from chicken j.D parries somehow. lambda - Make 4DD jump cancellable, make 236A cross up. Tsubaki - Increase charge speed, increase damage on distortion drive, make at least one of her dp's not suck. Hazama - He's fine. Just reduce damage on Jayoku. Give Gasaishou command grab some better use as well. etc. etc. etc. |
| Are you mad. Belial Edge already prorates like mad. That is.. if I could find the damn percentage of the proration. |
| 4k dual belial bnb tells me not enough. |
| If BE didn't prorate as much as it did, we'd be seeing 6k combos out of it. |
| But we're seeing 4k combos. Off 5B. With goodkizeme. A little less dameji wouldn't hurt, especially since all you have to do is win a 50/50 for another 3-4k with the same goodkizeme 50/50. |
| Yeah, I get your point. I guess another thing that could be dumbed down a bit is the heat gain. I mean.. 50~60% off one combo = lol. |
| Heat's relative to combo damage so jyyeah. Any Burger King combo should make its Heat back. Did I mention Inferno Divider FADC into ultra? |
| Didn't know we were speaking SBBCSIV. :E |
| After playing some hours with Hazama, I'm actually surprised ro see him so high in the list. |
| >Jayoku Houtenjin |
Shino05 said: After playing some hours with Hazama, I'm actually surprised ro see him so high in the list. What's so suprising? Although Hazama's average damage output is mediocre compared to other characters, he has many ways to get in. He can easily drive hit confirm from almost full screen and getting hit from mid-> full screen = long hitstun where he can easily follow it up into at least a 2k+ combo (could go up to 3k, I've hit almost 4k without meter once but I forgot the inputs and testing around trying to find out how to do it again.) He has huge control with his chains being able to shoot them in 0,30,60 and 90 degree angles and being able to follow them up. A = Retract Chain, B = Delayed Parabolic path, C = Cross Up that stops behind the chain, D = Propelled movement. And considering he can fake out the chains quite easily its really hard to approach him and keep him locked down. I've only had problems escaping from Litchi and Rachel. And it's not just the chains that are dangerous. His 5B gives him +1 on block and his 3C has huge range. Eating any of those attacks will get him at least a 2k+ combo and 20-40 heat. If you heat his 6C on a CH that could reach up to 4k meterless. And then theres the threat of Jayoku which isn't that great by itself unless Hazama is in the corner but if you get FC'd. Damage potential is insane (5k->6.5k). When Hazama has his back to the wall, pretty much all combos will get a +1k to damage bonus at least. TL;DR - Hazama has way too many tools to net combos that give him huge amounts of meter for respectable damage. He doesnt have the retarded oki game Litchi has and doesn't have the damage output of Bang and Ragna. Which places him in Mid-High tier. Wow that was a huge rant. Onto Litchi needs nerfs? :3 |
| Let's not forget about his command grab shenanigans, 214D attacks too. The only thing I see that needs buffin' is his damage output. Things like 5B, 3C, 214D-C, 5C, 2C, 4D-D, jCxN, jCxN, 214B should give at least a 3k instead of 2k+. Oh, and nerf Litchi. ffs. |
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weika said: Let's not forget about his command grab shenanigans, 214D attacks too. The only thing I see that needs buffin' is his damage output. Things like 5B, 3C, 214D-C, 5C, 2C, 4D-D, jCxN, jCxN, 214B should give at least a 3k instead of 2k+. Oh, and nerf Litchi. ffs. Trust me, Command grab isn't as good as you think. It prorates like a bitch. Standard BnB will barely touch 2k even in corner and it doesnt have a great start up (Though i shit you not, i have beaten out GETB with it). If you're getting hit by lots of his command grabs then you're definately doing something wrong. His 214D's are fine though i prefer if 214D-A would be faster since thats his only viable overhead and its easy to block on reaction. If his damage output is increased then he would be top tier easy considering how easy it is to land a combo with him. IMO. Hazama is perfectly fine atm. His high damage Jayoku combos require pretty precise timing. I land the 6DAx3 ~ 20-30% of the time. Normally just do 1-2 because my next one will whiff. His 214D-C after jayoku would net 5.5k at the most in corner and its burstable after jayoku so its not too broken. I can see him being really popular for the first few weeks of BB release then going down because nobody can be bothered to learn him -.-" (Hopefully.. that way I can be known as a fairly good Hazama player ^.^) But yeah I agree litchi definately needs a nerf. IMO, Litchi is my hardest match up by far. I can't make any mistakes. If she predicts a chain right she can CH me and then go into a combo into corner and I dont have many options to escape. IB Jayoku doesn't work too well with Litchi's setups (GODDAMN STICK.). Considering she can hit a 4k off a random itsuu counter hit (air or ground) and push you into the corner while getting 30-40meter for daisharin which will further lock you down in the corner forcing you to neutral tech into the corner else eat another length combo and god bless if she uses 13 orphans while you're there... ._.; I'm pretty sure Tsubame gaeshi has more invul frames than jin's dp but although it might leave her without her staff it doesnt matter because it'll be right next to you. And unless you IB it or have Ragna's 5B-5C range you're at a disadvantage. Anybody know if you hit Litchi before the 2nd hit comes down, can you still get hit by it? And All Green. How i hate All Green... So many times thats beaten out my Jayoku's and Nu's giant sword distortion... T_T; Basically I hate this matchup worse than CT arakune. (then again i played Nu and Rawrgnya back then :3) - Litchi is way too OP. Nerf her damage(by 500-1000) and make her combos harder to do and I wouldnt mind as much. - Also Bang is too easy to play now, bring back character specific combos~!! |
| That's why for the console re-balancing we need some damage buffs for Hazama. Well his command grabs shouldn't be used all the time definitely. I say shenanigans because you could use them during pressure, mixing it up. But yeah it prorates like a bitch, never try to pull off high combos with that thing it'll just ruin the damage potential. He doesn't have a lot of overheads (just like Jin orz) His 6A overhead is pretty good, you can hit confirm into Jayoku Houtenjin. As for the follow from Jayoku you actually have a lot of options. for example, 623D (depends on your position; you usually being at least half screen from corner) you can throw him into the corner and going for further damage or apply teh oki. Or you could go for a triple 6D into 623D or/and 214D-C timing is kinda strict but you can pull it off with training. Like you said those combos can lead to 5.5K. (Highest combo I got so far was 6K and some change. Got 2 Jayoku's in. hurr durr) Oh and I'm totally gonna play with Hazama seriously of course I'm not gonna forget CT main (Jin) either but he'll be used for trolling. (οΎ∀οΎ) Here's is what I see about Litchi match-ups: Don't get hit with CH. If you did, wait for a long ass combo and some serious oki trouble. (God damn, she gets too much heat sometimes too.) She's too dangerous. D: |
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| I wouldn't mind the game's meter system being tweaked. Having meter directly correlating with damage output makes good characters better and bad characters worse. Not necessarily a tremendous factor but a tweak wouldn't hurt nonetheless. |
| @Weika Hazama definately does not need a buff. If anything he needs a nerf after his Jayoku damage. He just has way too many ways to open a combo easily. If he got a damage buff then random full screen hitting chains would easily break 3k damage and considering how easy it is to get a combo off a chain... He could probably have a reworking on damage prorations so most of the damage comes from his attacks and not j.cxn but I think he's fine atm. Theres a good balance between ground damage and j.ccccc, dj.ccccc. I could go for a slight damage buff for his 214b in mid air though :D and this is my max damage values from Jayoku that i can get - Zaneiga follow up - 4.8k - Corner - 5.6k - 6DA follow up - 5.8k - Corner - 6.3k I don't double jayoku since it prorates like a bitch i tend to just go for normal combos or LOLOLOL ASTRAL. Hazama's overheads are fine though, he isn't really supposed to be an in your face character. 6A is kinda slow and he can be mashed out of his command grab. It just makes him weaker at pressure and mix-up which makes him balanced. And Litchi. This is how i feel when I play against her. ._.; If she's standing 3/4 to close range, everything I do is a risk. If i throw out a chain and whiff it (even retracting it right after) the best thing that'll happen is that i'll end up blocking it. IMO what I feel would balance Litchi (at least slightly in my eyes, not as OP but still top tier) - On normal stick spin, if it clashes with a projectile it should stop attacking and either be set where it clashed or instantly return back to Litchi. - All Green should have more startup time or no redicioulous invul. - Same with Tsubame - Lower her damage or alter her proration so she doesn't do 4k combos off a random hit INTO corner. |
| But Tsubame Gaeshi already doesn't combo into anything (unlike CT) and All Green also starts up slower than in CT. An even slower startup would make All Green useless, imo. |
| How did they change All Green for CS? That one was like my favorite move playing as Tager vs Litchi. You can sledge right through it for a juicy counter-hit combo. I can just see the "WTF" on Litchi's face when it happens. As for Hazama - I'm a little bit apprehensive about ANOTHER character whose strategy revolves around staying far away and throwing long distance pokes. I also haven't really seen any great Hazamas running around. Best I've found is Zakiyama, but most videos I watch are of him getting dominated. I agree with the general consensus that he's a mid-tier character. I'd like to see someone good represent him before I say "upper mid tier", as Fireryda puts it. |
| The only change to All Green is just a slightly slower startup, nothing else. |
| There is something else, it comes out instantly after superflash (like 720) meaning it's impossible to block on reaction (supposedly). Specifically it went from 2+1 frames to 7+0. |
| Ah, damn. No more sledging through it for free, then. |
| Played quite a bit against Litchi today and well i guess All Green is fine. Didnt see it used much. (Probably once or twice out of 15 or so matches). It's generally Daisharin to pressure and force block into a mixup or 13 orphans in corner. Couple of Hazama vids. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXD71RkauSI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JztI3CPkA64 IMO Hazama is Mid-High tier because he doesn't have to put himself at risk to start up a combo. Any chain that connects further than mid screen will give him enough hit stun to propel himself and follow up into combo for 2k+ damage for heaps of heat. If they block he can retract and launch again or follow it up anyways and has a convenient ambigous cross-over button. He's pretty much Nu/Lambda x Taokaka. From my experiences he's really comfortable being at nearly full screen and can go into a combo really easily especially on a chain hit. Up close he isn't too bad as well since his stuff isn't too slow and he has a couple of good lows and a decent overhead. It's not his main point but he has a couple of frame traps. What really sets him mid-high tier is the damage potential off Jayoku (2k on initial). Everytime I landed a Jayoku, even if it wasn't a CH (it usually was) as long as I didn't drop the combo for.. various reasons... I could hit 4k-5k going off a sweep easy while gaining ~30meter to do another Jayoku. TL;DR It's all about Jayoku baby. His combos just serve to fuel Jayoku. Hopefully next week I'll be able to record one of my matches and show you how I play and why I think he's mid-high tier :D |
| After watching Buppa's Hazama, I have to retract my previous statement about there not being any good Hazama players. I can definitely see him being as high as A tier. The damage off of a Jayoku Houtenjin counter hit is ridiculous (looks like he got more than half of Dora's health bar in that first video), and the damage off of his overhead hit-confirm to Jayoku is nothing to laugh at either. And as you said, those combos off of a chain drive build up quick since they're so easy to hit with. Combine that with his great mobility and fantastic aerial control, and I think Hazama could be pretty dangerous. As expected, however, Tager vs Hazama is going to be awful. Sledging through Ouroboros looks ineffective, and it looks like it's going to be nearly impossible to trap Hazama in a corner. Even in the best case, it's going to be a long, drawn out battle waiting for Hazama to get in my striking range. Fireryda said: Same as in CT. I'm pretty sure Jayoku Houtenjin will trade with both of those, so it's not like you don't have any options.Played quite a bit against Litchi today and well i guess All Green is fine. Didnt see it used much. (Probably once or twice out of 15 or so matches). It's generally Daisharin to pressure and force block into a mixup or 13 orphans in corner. |
| Hazama vs Litch is a really careful match. Easier to explain what I had to do. I'm assuming you play Tager so I'll give you rundown on how I play against him. Sorry if this doesn't make alot of sense~ Hehe sorry if this is too long but I'm still really excited from my weekly BB meet earlier today. Had some epic matches :D And Buppa is a great Hazama with his unorthodox playing style. IMO Zakiyama is better but they both play alot differently. Buppa is really really good at putting down pressure and it shows with his Jin and Ky. And Hazama is A- Tier at the highest, he just has too many downfalls to bring him to a solid A tier. No reversals without meter, no pressure and barely any mix-up options and pretty much has to play better than other people to win. |
| Thanks for the rundown. I'm not too worried about Jayoku, since I know if I 360A Jayoku will wiff and I can just follow up with a 360B when Hazama lands. I think I've seen 720 beat Jayoku before (if you buffer the 720 during Jayoku's flash), but I'm not completely confident in that. The matchup you just described sounds an awful lot like Tager vs Litchi in CT. Be real patient, wait for a bolt, and take advantage. The thing is, can't you just stay in the air (out of bolt's range) and poke at me for most of the match? I mean, Bolt might very well beat chain, but if it can't hit in the first place then I'm in trouble. Also, in CT lots of characters with alternate forms of mobility (Tao's drive, Rachel's wind, Arakune's dive, Jin's ice car) could beat Atomic Collider by using their weird mobility to mess with the magnetism. I was under the impression that Hazama's chain would be the same thing (i.e., I collider, you chain to somewhere random, and I can't pull you in). Is that not the case? |
| Ok 1 step at a time. 1. 720 only beats Jayoku if it comes out the frame after. Jayoku has alot of active frames that you'll get hit out of it and if you can buffer a 720 just block 720. And if you 360A you don't have to whiff because if you're whiffing then the Jayoku is hitting the invul frames and you could just land the 360A. 360A-> 360B isn't worth it if you can guarantee the 360A getting them. Don't forget that gadget finger does magnetize them and you can do it after a 360. 2. He can't stay in the air forever. To put it simply he can only do 1 chain / jump. As in he'll be able to throw another one when if he double jumps I think. I'll have to test it for you. Not sure if he can double jump after he A-cancels his chain. If i'm trying to hit Tager at full screen I super jump + double jump foward 6D. I'm pretty sure he can't though so you can get him on the way down and then try to move in on him. 3. This kinda relates to 2. I haven't tried going along the chains while I'm magnetized but I'm pretty sure it makes the flight retarded. I generally aim my chain at tager and go for a counter-hit into combo. But yes I'm pretty sure it'll do something wierd but he'll come back on course towards you, probably won't land in your collider so be ready to drop it and hit him with like a normal or a 360 or something. And it's entirely possible to grab him with atomic collider while he's propelling along the chain. The general plan when magnetized is stay back and defensive. If i jump you can AC on reaction and screw up my chain aiming. And it's just too risky, especially if you just do a little pull with AC and cancel it into barrier to block the chain so I come flying towards you. The tager I know did that to me and well it wasn't healthy. You have to take advantage of Tager's gadget finger though. It keeps him really close. The problem is getting him into the first combo into a gadget finger. When I get combo'd i normally eat ~6-7k damage from the tager and somehow barely make it out alive. If you can do that then you can play defensive for a timeout forcing him to come to you and exploit that. Just don't get beat up before you can combo him. Hope that helps a bit ~ |
| It's kinda hard for me to see how useful your advice is since I can only play pirated CS by myself on my PC, but I appreciate the input anyway. I'll probably figure things out the old fashioned way - by getting my ass handed to me enough times that I figure out how to not die. |
| Ahah that sucks. I play at the arcades with quite a few good people and our best player is a Tager player. So I can give you a couple of tips on how he plays. And yeah the CPU plays so much differently.. they make Tsubaki seem like a good character with her psychic DP's that hit you out of anything (hint: it's actually a dp projectile..) But tbh your tager play is revolving around trying to get him towards you where it becomes generic tager play. Learn to get used to his Gadget Finger (where he picks them up off the ground). 22D -> 720C does work and its untechable. :D |
| Wow, nice discussion there. I'm actually glad I started it with a single sentence I wrote with PS3's browser. I just wanted to clarify that I don't really disagree with the tier listing. It's just that (in my opinion of course) I don't think the risk factor as I would call it is included in the tier list. What I mean is, it all sounds good on paper but getting a chain hit isn't as easy as it sounds. On top of that, much of his stuff is so damn situational. For example you have to make sure your 5C hits at least 50% of your opponent's hitbox and you have to pay attention to small characters' hitboxes like Carl's and Rachel's. The timing for the chains isn't easy either. 4D in his BnB or like you said 6D after Hotenjin Counter. His 3C is great but has a slow startup, his 6B is complete garbage, 6A is fine if you hit confirm Hotenjin like Weika stated. Though I don't really see why you should use 6A instead of 214D-A in this case. Of course I don't have as much experience as you (no arcades in europe, obviously). But I was able to play against some human opponents. Bang is so annoying with his drive spam as it counters your chain and teleports him in melee range. Ragna doesn't even care, he just belial edges the distance. I didn't care about Tsubaki because she couldn't do really anything useful against my chains. Arakune is fine I guess at least CS Ara. I think CT Ara would be more problematic for Hazama because of his bugs interrupting your chain animation. Hazama mirrors was like a continuation of my old main Jin mirrors. Stay patient, look for an opening and start a combo. I also like using his 5B as anti air > combo. Looking forward to your new arcade experiences. I just hope they won't be nerfing Hazama in the console version. |
| > Though I don't really see why you should use 6A instead of 214D-A in this case. Mixup. If you train your opponent to watch out for 214D-A overhead they'll begin to block high on reaction to 214D animation. |
MM805 said: > Though I don't really see why you should use 6A instead of 214D-A in this case. Mixup. If you train your opponent to watch out for 214D-A overhead they'll begin to block high on reaction to 214D animation. It'll work at times.. but it just doesn't link to anything other than a Jayoku that's why its pretty cruddy. IAD j.2c is better, if it's low enough it's possible to go into a 5c->3c -> combo or just 3c -> combo. Shino05 said: Insert Huge Quote Here TL;DR stuff |
| Nice stuff. I mistook 2C for 3C, my bad. Too bad I deleted BBCS from my hard disk (because my pc couldn't handle it), so I can't test stuff. I think I'll just wait for the console version. |
| I haven't really payed much attention to Hazama's vids in CS, but how would you think he would fare against uber Bang? To me he doesn't seem to be that hard of a matchup considering how easily Bang can close in on him and kick his ass. Given that his snake seems to be based on distance, Bang could use daifuna and teleport close to him to start a combo. But given that, I don't think anyone will have an easy time with Bang besides maybe Litchi in certain cases. Edit: Oh, just saw Fireryda's post. Lol. |
| If you can avoid Jayoku and don't do stupid stuff at full range you won't have a problem. |
MM805 said: If you can avoid Jayoku and don't do stupid stuff at full range you won't have a problem. That's impossible ;P AFAIK the only thing that won't get smashed by Jayoku is A spam. IB -> Jayoku = Fun Times. Either 4k unburstable combo or 4.5k burstable combo mid screen.. 4.5k unburstable ->6k combo if your name is Zakiyama. And with his back to the corner.. that damage is great :D And it's harder for bang to roll over Hazama than it is with Litchi. 5b->3c -> combo = lots of meter + JAYOKU!! Yomi Jayoku = LOL DAMAGE. Hazama has a huge amount of tools at close range too.. while his command grab is shit and prorates at 50% i think, it gets him out of so much stuff.. (command grabbing carnage scissors ftw!) And 5b is fast and can combo easily. And if he has space, 6 frame start-up flash-kick counter for good times :D |
FirerydaMay 11, 2010 1:18 AM
Fireryda said: Spinny beats Jayoku. :PThat's impossible ;P AFAIK the only thing that won't get smashed by Jayoku is A spam. |
naikou said: Fireryda said: Spinny beats Jayoku. :PThat's impossible ;P AFAIK the only thing that won't get smashed by Jayoku is A spam. and cat chair... oh god cat chair.. T_T |
| Inferno Divider beats and goes through Houtenjin. ;x |
Massaki said: Inferno Divider beats and goes through Houtenjin. ;x What doesn't it beat and go through? (apart from other dp's with even more rediculous invul frames.. looking at you Jin & Litchi) And Jayoku'n Ragna when he's in neutral = ?.? uCrazY? Pretty much every DP beatsout Jayoku in a neutral situation except Tsubaki's. Sometimes it clashes since it's not a true DP afaik. That spike thing is actually a projectile which is good times for hakumen. And Noel can slide under it with 3c or it'll whiff completely with 5d... ;_; Personally I love punishing Carnage Scissors with it. Block first hit -> JAYOKU -> 5k+ combo >:D |
Fireryda said: What doesn't it beat and go through? (apart from other dp's with even more rediculous invul frames.. looking at you Jin & Litchi) I can related to that. But only to Litchi. Tsubame Gaeshi is just ridiculous. Half the time I end up clashing DPs against Jin, I mostly always win. Inferno Divider > Clash > Inferno Divider. :x |
Massaki said: I can related to that. But only to Litchi. Tsubame Gaeshi is just ridiculous. Half the time I end up clashing DPs against Jin, I mostly always win. Inferno Divider > Clash > Inferno Divider. :x http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZInsw9btk IT DOES NOT WORK!! D: |
| Sadly, said tactic does not work on himself. : < It's like a Hokuto no Ken battle, the first guy to fuck up loses. |
Massaki said: Sadly, said tactic does not work on himself. : < It's like a Hokuto no Ken battle, the first guy to fuck up loses. Unless you're already dead. x_x; ITT> Why DP's are OP ;P |
| The thing is, though, Inferno divida can be really predictable I find. Even in CT, I usually have an easy time predicting when my opponent will do it and I usually just use 8D to counter it. Actually, I tend to be able to predict Tsubame Gaeshi as well and just use 2D in such a situation. |
| Jin's grab is OP. he grabbed me out of my Jayoku. Nerf pl0x. ;_; |
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