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If you were unable to participate in a week's spotlight threads, but still want to talk about a series or character which was recently voted on in a "You Decide" thread then this is the place to do it. I am hoping that club members will use this venue to give brief explanations for why they voted in the way that they did regardless of whether it was a yes or no.

Guess I'll go first then.

I voted for SHnY to be added to the list as, regardless of whether you love it or hate it, it has had a huge impact on the anime world - something that only a handful of animes can boast about.

It's true that SHnY suffered from numerous flaws, especially regarding the stereotypical characters, and some people have issues with the premise for the show as well. The unfortunate fact is that for quite a few people the innovations in the show were overshadowed by these flaws, some of which were glaringly obvious.

One of the innovations of the show was actually the first episode. As far as I can recall, this is the only time an anime has actually parodied the making of an amateur movie - something it managedto do extremely well. The soundtrack was inspired in both it's choice and it's usage, and the animation was first rate.

It's true the characters are stereotypical, but the way they were portrayed was in marked contrast to most other "school" based shows, especially given the fact that their personalities were exaggerated by a large degree. For me, these overly-exagerrated characters didn't detract from the show at all, as I found them a refreshing change from the typical staid usage these character types are usually used for. Clannad had some very similar characters as well, but the usage of these characters in Clannad was more to the norm.

Be that as it may, SHnY has achieved something no other anime in recent years has managed to do by appealing to a global market. It managed to become the hot topic, and even now, is still causing controversy. There's only a few other shows that have had such a lasting effect - Death Note and NGE are two examples (both of which I found mediocre).

I think it's a shame that it failed to get onto the relations list, as I firmly believe it deserves a place there. It has been mentioned that the more popular an anime is, the less likely it is to appear on the list, however Monster appears to be far more popular than SHnY, so I think this is a flawed argument.

It would have been nice to have these discussions prior to voting as it would have allowed people to think seriously about the show, thereby making the vote a great deal more objective than it probably is.

I get the feeling far too many people are casting votes without giving the anime/manga/character any serious thought. This is clearly highlighted by the simple fact that the original discussion for SHnY had 55 people giving ratings for the show, yet there were only 24 other entries on the forum topic, so less than half the people who gave the show a rating actually gave a reason. In addition, a total of 75 club members voted in the "You Decide" poll for SHnY. This means that less than a a third of those who voted on whether or not SHnY should join the relations list actually gave a preliminary justification for their vote.

I'm surprised that there's so many slackers in this club actually :)

I'm not quite seeing this. Looking from just the member list on MAL, SHnY has almost 10000 more members than Monster.

Maybe rather than popular, Archaeon is meaning highly rated by the general public since Monster is rated #6 on the Top Anime page even though as you say it has less members.
I think the theory is that the general public is basically a bunch of simpletons content to watch high octane action/fan service shows with a plot only deep enough to propel them to the next set of boobs or martial arts contest. Seeing as how there are only a little more than 130 people in this club, that means the overwhelming majority of Monster's 4660 members are part of the aforementioned public.

But it's only a theory and we haven't had much time to see if it actually holds water.

Getting back on topic, as far as my votes go, I haven't read One Piece or seen SHnY so I voted that option.

I have seen Code Geass and my vote for Lulu was no. I enjoy the show overall more than Lelouch's character. I liked him at first but his behaviors later in the show turned me off. Maybe for some people, his struggle against conscience was an awe inspiring display, but for me it was a debacle and someone of his intelligence and detachment should have been able to make better decisions.

However, I also think Lelouch was spotlighted too early since I consider the first season of CG to be mostly backstory. I'm guessing much of Lelouch's development will occur during R2 and maybe he will change my mind. Maybe I'm punishing Lelouch a bit much, but I always hate to see potential go unrealized and that disappointment overrides any previous positive opinion I had of him.

TMoHS was my most difficult Spotlight Anime vote to date. Archaeon, you have laid out the strengths and weaknesses quite well. I can't refute a single point you made and don't intend to. After going through similar thought processes and internal monologues as you just wrote so eloquently I still came to the conclusion of voting "no".

I thought choosing common character archetypes with obviously exaggerated character traits was an excellent choice in the context of the story. The first episode was absolutely brilliant, and upon rewatching still holds up. The subtle nuances they crammed into that episode are remarkable and increasingly so after reading the novels but that is for another discussion. The disjointed airing order of the episodes was a fun and engaging way to tell the story and certainly original in the context of anime. TMoHS earned a well deserved 9/10 on my list.

I personally place little or no value on some of the things you list as pros. Having a huge impact on the anime world, possessing mass appeal to a global market, even leaving a lasting effect on anime could be said about such shows as Pokemon, Dragonball Z, and Naruto.

With all this said before I click my final vote I always look at the final line of the club goals; "This would be our way of putting a stamp of approval to a select few series that truly belong to the upper echelons of their respective medium.". I felt in the end, although narrowly, TMoHS didn't make the cut.

*Edit* This is a great idea for a topic BTW. Sometimes I miss the opportunity, or even just don't feel compelled to write a structured 5 point (Art, Characters, Story, Enjoyment, Overall) review for every spotlight I have managed to see.

So, I missed seeing the stats from last week's voting. Would Brett mind doing a repost?

Thanks much.


To make this post somewhat more appropriate, I guess I'll mention why I no-voted Haruhi. I actually enjoyed the show enough to give it an 8, but the aforementioned flaws, which can be overlooked when only enjoyment is being considered, were enough to tip the scales to a no vote here. Tough decision though. D:

All of the previous stats from the deleted "You Decide" threads have been added to the First post of every corresponding spotlight thread. So if you want to look back to see how many Yes, No, I don't know votes something got you can always get it from there.

Thanks for correcting me there BlackMagic. You're exactly right. I meant highly rated.

Rofelos - My point wasn't so much to convince people to vote "yes", but rather to deplore the fact that so many people who voted (regardless of what their vote was), failed to give any sort of justification for their vote. Even one or two sentences would have sufficed, as at least there would be another individual perspective added to the mix.

No matter what the outcome is, the simple fact that the minority are the only ones taking part in discussions makes me think that maybe the rest shouldn't be allowed to vote unless they have put forth their opinion. It may seem a little heavy handed and fascist to say that, but if somebody isn't willing to take part in discussions, or back up their arguments (even just agreeing with someone else would be okay), then I don't feel that they should have a say in what makes the relations list. If the discussion can happen before the vote (in the Spotlight thread), rather than after, then at least there's a clearer picture as to how the anime/manga/character is viewed, which would then be backed up by the "You Decide" vote.

At this point I don't think the "You Decide" vote is a true depiction of how a given anime/manga/character is viewed. It's my personal belief that many people in the club do not want to enter into a discussion about a show they may or may not hate as they may be forced to revise their opinion. Whether this is true or not is not for me to judge though.

My burning question I have is what do people define as "respective medium?"

This is the argument I would like to make about supporting the One Piece manga. What Rofelos stated here as one of the club goals - upper echelon of their respective medium. So for each anime, manga and character put up for vote, we considering each category AS A WHOLE. For example, when considering a certain category or demographic or anime, does one compare it to others in the same category, or are you comparing it across the board. Take a popular anime, Naruto, for example. If it were to ever make the nomination here, when considering your vote, are you looking at Naruto compared to other shounen anime or Naruto compared to other anime in general?

The way I view "respective medium" is simply as the best anime/manga in their demographic and category. So when I look at One Piece manga, I compare its elements to other manga in its category and demographic, and when I do, I see it as a major cut above the rest. Of course, there are reasons why I do, as I have stated in the discussion last week, but simply, that's a huge portion of how my vote is decided.

And I agree with what Archaeon has stated ^ right above me. He has pretty much summed up my views on voting too.

That's actually a very good point vindemon, and not one I'd considered previously.

Given the diversity of anime and manga genres it's sometimes not so easy to see how they affect each other or the fans, and it's sometimes difficult to make direct comparisons. I mean, there's very few ways you could directly compare SHnY to Monster as they are from two completely different genres, and although they may overlap in some small ways (which can be considered negligible), you couldn't automatically say that liking one denotes you like the other, or vice versa.

One suggestion that may help is to choose a particular genre each week, and select anime or manga based on that genre. That way, if a show that most would consider anomalous appears as a nomination it can be discussed in greater detail.

A second vote can be run at the beginning of the week to decide the genre for the forthcoming week, with a simple majority being the deciding factor. This way, by mid-week we'll know which genre we can make nominations for come the next weekend.

A benefit of this system is that it would allow us to decide based on genre rather than overall medium, and we can then see what actually is the most respected shounen, drama, thriller, horror, etc. The other big plus is that it narrows the field of potential candidates for the spotlight, which is beneficial as, if you're like me, there's a number of anime and manga from all sorts of genres that you wish you could nominate, but you can only choose one.

This is just a suggestion though, as it may be the case that many find this system overly complicated.

This is a rather intriguing idea but at times genres can be subjective and demographics consistently are since they refer almost exclusively to manga serializations. Even then the times of cut and dry shounen/shoujo/seinen/josei/kodomo publications sticking exclusively to their respective demographics is becoming a thing of the past.

For me the respective medium will always refer to the categories of anime/manga/characters as a whole. I am glad other people are approaching it from a different viewpoint though since it gives us a broader sampling of the anime community.

When I wrote "Respective Medium" I meant it to encompass Anime, Manga, or Characters.

As for subdividing the selection system based on genre it becomes extremely difficult to do in an anime/manga context. Just for an example lets use... Full Metal Panic. Full Metal Panic can't easily be defined into any one genre because it easily fits all of these: Mecha, Military, Sci-fi, Action, School, Romance, Comedy, Drama. How could we fairly assess the whole series if we were single it out using only one of those aspects? The show shines because it is an amalgamation (no pun intended) of all of those genres and not because it excels at any particular one.

Very true 8Gauge. It's just as you and Rofelos say. My point about the suggestion was simply to highlight the fact that, even though genres are subjective, we automatically categorise anime or manga based on those genres. This defines how we view the show or read the manga, and ultimately, what our thoughts will be come the end (I'm basically talking about first impressions).

Using your example of FMP for a moment 8Gauge, it is exactly as you describe - an amalgamation of various genres. However numerous people will automatically categorise FMP as a mech anime first and foremost, and although they may or may not realise it, they will draw comparisons between FMP and other mech anime they may have seen. Many of these comparisons may be justified, and indeed comparisons do need to be drawn, if only to provide a benchmark from which to critique the show/manga. However, far too many people lose their objectivity by doing this as they become drawn into the whole "this was done better here" argument (as so eloquently highlighted in the recent discussion about GS and CG in the Open Discussion thread).

Likewise SHnY is generally categorised as a "school" based show, and many of the discussions I've had about it have highlighted the fact that people continue to compare it to the likes of Da Capo, Kanon, Clannad, School Rumble, etc. I admit that there are numerous similarities between then (which can ultimately be drawn from the fact that all these shows do take place in a school environment), but in listing these similarities we ignore what each show has tried to achieve, as our judgement automatically becomes biased towards the shows we preferred.

This is unfortunate as shows like FMP and SHnY have tried to approach old ideas from a new angle. In FMP, Sousuke is an extremely complex character who is ideally suited for comedy as well. He's a military otaku. He's insensitive. He doesn't understand what "normal" people are talking about. He tends not to voice his opinions unless ordered to do so. Etc, etc, etc... In effect, he's the antithesis of many of the lead males from some of the other mecha shows I've seen.

Haruhi is a similar case. Unlike the standard school-based romance format, she's not shy. She's brash, in-your-face, arrogant, smarmy, loves to be the centre of attention, etc. I'm trying to remember if there were any other female leads in a school based show (with the noted exception of School Rumble), who exhibited all or some of these characterisitics (if anyone knows of any then please let me know).

Kyon is another case in point. He's the male lead, yet he isn't a sensitive, kind-hearted, caring person who looks out for everyone (as with most other school based shows). He's sarcastic to a fault, would rather be doing other things, not prone to believe anything he's told, etc. The only male lead I've seen recently who I can compare him with is Tomoya from Clannad.

Just a thought here, but the biggest irony about SHnY is the fact that Kyon is very clearly the main character. Haruhi's name may be in the title, but the one character who gets the most focus throughout the series is Kyon. This wasn't accidental, as the light novels generally follow this format. Haruhi is simply the foremost side character to what is effectively a story about someone finding out they have a "god" sitting behind them in class. It's an unfortunate fact that many people become hooked on the flaws of the show when compared to others that fall into it's "type" (and I use that term loosely), and ignore the very obvious fact that SHnY is essentially about how Kyon deals with the fact that the world around him isn't as "real" as he'd always believed, and that the person responsible for this sits behind him in class and keeps dragging him off to do random stuff.

In general, it's difficult for people to shake off their first impressions about a show, manga or character. From the little I have read of One Piece, it definitely stands head and shoulders above most other shounen manga. However, I initially avoided it because I did automatically classify it as stereotypical shounen where the same story repeats itself over and over again.

If we want to be critics of anime, manga and characters, then we need to give credit where credit is due and not limit ourselves narrow-minded viewpoints

I'm just throwing my 2 cents in that I agree when it comes to comparing a show across the board rather than just within a demographic scope or whatever other category is used. However, I do usually compare the achievements of an anime vs its demographic counterparts as an element that factors into my whole judgement.

But as we've mentioned before, anime classification is very subjective so just because I consider contrasting two particular shows a worthwhile endeavor, others probably think I'm wasting my time lol.

It is very hard for me to watch an anime passively though. I can't help but recognize familiar elements from previous shows and see if the meanings from that show transfer over to the current one to possibly give an unspoken reference to tension between characters A and B and so on. I am usually predicting what happens in an anime based on this and I really enjoy it when the anime shows me a new twist or even something new all together.

I definitely agree that people need to participate more in this club. It may be a little early to propose even more drastic measures since 8gauge's new point system hasn't had time to make an impact yet. But posting in discussions aside, even the "You Decide" polls are only seeing 80ish votes and I think that is very sad considering there are 130+ people here. I know people go on vacation and stuff, but it's hard for me to believe that around 40% of our club members are on vacation at any given time.

Well I am sure we have quite a few inactive people here and after this month is over we will know who they are (thanks to the point system) and will be able to remove them and hopefully replace them with new active members.

I do tend to feel a bit useless when the deciding options leave me no other recourse but to select Not Seen/Read/Known. Judging by the numbers in the polls, I'm not the only individual caught up in the statistic. This isn't going to perturb me from continuing. It piques my interest into checking out the selections so that I can make a valid opinion, if not for the club, atleast for myself. The main reason that I watch/read anime/manga itself ... for the entertainment.

The interesting thing about the club is each week the group gets the chance to actively participate in getting what they are familiar with into the Spotlight. If it happens, great. If it doesn't ... I cross my fingers for next week, keep myself in the ballot box, plus check out what others have deemed worthy for the vote. It's all part of the show -- and I'm loving it.

Yeah, I haven't seen/read half of the spotlighted options as well. But I've since watched Seirei no Moribito so I will be ready for when Balsa returns to the chopping block.

But even if you are only voting "Not seen/read/known", at least you are voting and those votes have an impact as well in determining whether a character/series gets a free pass or has to come back for a 2nd run through the gauntlet.

I just finished Seirei no Moribito as well BlackMagic. Great minds think alike - and so do ours :D

I have to admit I was impressed with the animation and sound in the show, and Balsa was great as the lead. The prince was annoying at times though, which spoiled the flow for me.

I was kind of annoyed by how many of the characters talked aloud to themselves rather than just having an internal monologue. That and the kid Tohya's ridiculous teeth lol.

But the real thing that bothered me was how Balsa and Chagum just waltzed around town and nobody recognized them. Especially when Balsa demonstrated this by asking some random guy at the food place about the "spear wielder Balsa"...I mean seriously how many female spear users from Kanbal are walking around with a kid in tow?

I enjoyed the series overall, but I got the feeling that if it came out of studio ghibli then it would have been better lol. Dunno it just had that somewhat wholesome folk tale feeling for me.

But all this nitpicking aside, like I said I still enjoyed it lol. It gets an 8 from me. I agree that the animation was very good and the sound fit well to help set the mood in many places.

You've hit on some good points there, although I have to admit that I wasn't to bothered by Tohya's teeth (being from England I've seen much worse in real life - believe me).

I have to admit, I thought the same thing as you as well about the two of them waltzing around the town. It's actually not a bad idea as far as it goes, it's just the execution of it wasn't as great as it could have been.

I'm not actually sure if Ghibli could have done better. I watched Gedo Senki recently, and it was great in many ways, but it lacked something as well (if you know what I mean). Maybe I'm just getting too cynical in my old age :)