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Jul 9, 2013 5:13 PM

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Dec 2012
16083
This was definitely a satisfying, bittersweet ending to the series. It seems as though Sara has taken on the role of Sis now. And the soldier who was obsessed with her finally did one good thing before he died. Was happy to see Tabool and Hamdo drown (I even ended up laughing very loudly when Hamdo's body was floating about in front of Abelia), but despite everything Nabuca did, I felt as though he too was only a victim of the madness and couldn't bring myself to hold it against him.

As for the whole pro-life/abortion issue, I disagree with the people saying that Sara was forced into keeping the child or that this series reeked of pro-life propaganda. The meaning behind her keeping it was that despite how much she went through, she could turn all of her suffering and experiences into something good to make up for it all.

Overall this was a very thought provoking series and I'll have plenty to ponder on later on. 8-8.5/10 from me.
Jul 16, 2013 6:07 AM
The Shrike

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Nov 2009
11299
Despite the strangeness of the plot and the slightly rushed feel of things in the last episode, few anime can ever be as gripping, and filled with emotion as this one. IN a way, I believe this to be one of the ultimate anti war series ever made. Unlike let's say a Gundam, were characters say "war is hell" every episode or so yet get on their shiny robots to fight each other, there is nothing glamorous or exciting about the war here. It's pure and simple slaughter and despair.

Sara staying was a bit of a surprise, but I suppose she felt a strong debt to Sis. It was good to see Abelia embracing the new world too. And Hamdo deserved what he got. BTW, kuudos to the seiyuu who played him. That was one insane voice.

This must easily be one of the most underrated things on MAL. When I see some of the crap that has a higher score on this website I have to facepalm in order to bear it.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

Jul 18, 2013 10:56 AM

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Sep 2010
1307
Fuck.... This series is fucking depressing as hell.... But that's what I like about it.... But with logical inconsistencies of characters.. I can't give a higher rating than a 8.... Still an awesome series which gives you something to think over after you finished watching.....

8/10
Aug 20, 2013 1:44 AM

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Dec 2010
148
So much of this anime to love, and yet the main theme it left drilling into my head went beyond a bad taste in my mouth.

Ladies....keep your babies. Even if they are a product of rape. And the ending just made me facepalm. When Shu met Sara all she could think of was getting home, but I guess her experience was so pleasant she decided to stay. Well this rape baby and I have a connection to this place...logic would say get me back to earth and the nearest orphanage/abortionist.

And Shu, it will all be ok, oh shit you got raped, guess I was wrong...no wait you get to keep a rape baby and not go home to earth, told you it would work out! eat crow!
Aug 25, 2013 8:27 PM

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Jun 2013
362
This anime is truly amazing! I can't really think of words to describe it other than that it's a real Masterpiece!

anime_fan_800 said:
All in all this anime was perfect for how long it was. This anime is one of those "true classics". There are many good anime out there but this is just like one level above even that. There are so many good things about this anime; the animation, music, characters, etc.

"The superb storytelling is highlighted by the intense emotions it can evoke, the trait for which the series is probably best-known. The most severe content is typically implied rather than shown, which makes watching the series bearable, but even so it can be a very cathartic experience. This is a series which will shock and dismay you, at turns make you angry or uncomfortable or sad, and in a couple of places will quite probably break your heart. So powerful can these reactions be that the gentle, soothing closing number, which on its own is a good song, becomes one of the best-chosen and most effective closing numbers ever because of its ability to calm the viewer back down after watching particularly intense content. One would have to look far and wide to find any series (whether anime or not) more effective at driving its viewers to tears and leaving them emotionally overcome.NTHT is a masterpiece of execution. Its story is a straightforward one that stays firmly focused on where it's going, while depth comes from the conflicting ideologies it portrays.(from the dvd review on ANN)"

its how i feel about the series and ANN put it into better words than i ever could have. And its so true each side of the arguments present in the series each have there own valid points to them. How can you say no to the guy that wants to avenge his little sisters death by killing King Hamdo after his troops left her die in the desert. Then you have Shu who is against killing. He is right in that the killing only brings more killing and greater sadness than before. To me Shu kept true to his ideals a little more so than Vash did, but Vash didn't have a choice in that moment in time when he did kill.

This is a series any true anime fan needs to watch.


Well said. I give it a 10 out of 10!
"The will to live is stronger than anything else"
Aug 28, 2013 10:00 AM

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Jan 2011
9895
as picky as i am about flaws i cant help but give this a 10/10 an it becomes my 5th fav anime
im surprised that so many people here wanted Sara to f*cking kill the baby like wtf man?
its a shame that characters like Abelia an Hamdo werent fully explored an it was kinda dumb that Abelia d miss a point blank shot but those are just nitpicks compared to all the greatness this anime offered
Aug 29, 2013 4:58 AM

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Dec 2008
958
Totally a future shock, dystopian, post apocalyptic desert wastedland, war torn future. BUT WITH ONE MIGHTY WOODEN STICK THAT SEEMS TO HEAL ALMOST...a single boy and a magical ancient girl saved the FUTURE!! LALA RU!!! 8.5 SCORE!!!
Nov 11, 2013 6:17 PM

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Jan 2013
2385
AnchientProphet2 said:
Totally a future shock, dystopian, post apocalyptic desert wastedland, war torn future. BUT WITH ONE MIGHTY WOODEN STICK THAT SEEMS TO HEAL ALMOST...a single boy and a magical ancient girl saved the FUTURE!! LALA RU!!! 8.5 SCORE!!!



It's a magical stick, ya know? Overall I really loved the series. Sure there's a few problems but honestly? I don't care.
Nov 27, 2013 5:58 AM

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Nov 2009
14588
A rather sad ending, although kind of expected after the events in the latter half of the series. What surprised me most was that Shu left while Sara remained, kind of ironic considering their viewpoints although understandable since Shu no longer had any reason to remain there while Sara gained a reason to stay.

Anyways, good series, loved the setting. 8/10.
Nov 29, 2013 5:52 PM

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Mar 2013
234
I also think that the ending was way too rushed. This anime should have really been a 26 (if not more) episode show and should have built up the whole war aspect way more. The crualty shown through the war, in the middle of the anime with robbering the village and the inner fights of Nabuca were the thing that kept me going. The near the end comming nice days in the canyon village were rather boring to me. The ending was also pretty illogical and stupid. I mean how could the few villiagers take over the ship against so many soldiers? why arnt there any guards for King Hamdon? why arnt there any real guards at all (just the kid soldiers)? Why does Sara keeps the baby?

After all the show was pretty good from many aspects such as artstyle, soundtrack and many of the characters and characterinteraction were pretty nice and interesting. The way too shonen main protagonist though was pretty annoying. It would have been a nice story if he had stayed longer in Hellywood and ended up like Nabuca or the other soldiers.. depressed and asking himself if it is right what he is doing.
Dec 8, 2013 12:03 PM

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Feb 2013
986
It was a sad ending for me, there wasn't enough grieve for Soon's death, nor Lala Ru's disappearance, the two characters I liked the most. I feel such a void with kind of endings
Jan 3, 2014 8:38 PM

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Jun 2007
553
Urobuchi Gen reads Now and Then, Here and There as a bedtime story.
Jan 11, 2014 4:53 AM
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Jun 2013
1
As much as I wanted to like this and as much as I love dystopian settings, it's really hard for me to like Now and Then, Here and There. Sure there are a lot of great things, backgrounds were done quite nicely and the animation seemed decent for it's time of release and budget. There were numerous horrific depictions of war crimes and the war itself. The cast was enough, and each character displayed varying degrees of opinions and provided their points of view on the war. There were also a lot of emotional moments between the main characters, but there are many obvious flaws I think most people can agree with.

This anime attempts to portray itself as serious, depressing, realistic, and but really only succeeds half the time. Hamdo's outbursts as your typical crazy dictator get really hard to believe sometimes and it really makes you wonder how such a mentally challenged person managed to lead this empire. Maybe it was due to stress, but we wouldn't know that; any indication at his past would've helped greatly. For now, it's hard to see him as anything but a comical character. Same with Abelia's dedication to him; thank god she broke allegiance at the end (to not to would be really fuckin stupid), but again Abelia's character feels like an ends to a mean for advancing the plot, which makes it really difficult for me to take these two seriously.

Shu suffers from the same problems as a character which made it really had to watch. I understand that he's simply really optimistic, headstrong, persistent, and on top of it all, a child. But sometimes his mannerisms lean towards the comical when he's confronted with the hard truth of murder, child abductions, etc. They feel really out of place, obnoxious. There are a few times where a child's reaction to the gruesome world were done realistically, like when the assassin was killed and the attempted abortion scene, but then there are moments where Shu frantically scratches his head and lets out a loud "EEEHHHHHH" when he tries to explain to Lalaru why it's "going to be alright". There are ways to show positive energy without fucking bouncing all over the walls. It's hard to take some situations seriously when Shu acts like he doesn't. The only characters that feel 3D and dynamic are Nabuca, Sara, Sis, Soon, Boo somewhat, and Tabool somewhat.

Shu's infatuation with Lalaru goes unexplained. Maybe its just childen's love, but the part early on where he mistakes Sara for Lalaru and starts crawling towards her leaned towards obsession (no really, if you take it out of context it feels like he was trying to molest her). There are also moments where he goes full shounen mode, doesn't get hit by bullets from soldiers, manages to get by through the dumbest luck ever, and gets shot in the leg but magically heals the next day, but really, whatever.

Also, this is probably a personal gripe, but I feel like the pacing on some parts could have done better. They spent way too long explaining what buttons they had to press to make Hellywood fly. There are also various inconsistent bits. One moment Shu looks like he's about to break down crying, an episode later he's back to bouncing on the walls. Shu's a kid, but somehow he demonstrates the ability to plan ahead (and this is early on before a large portion of his character development, back when he still retardedly swung his bat around).

Overall, good concept, not so great execution, a few one dimensional characters, low budget somewhat evident, suffers greatly from villain incompetence, Shu's antics and the dark scenario don't match up at times, character development needs some cleaning and emphasis, but it's still really worth watching for the other bits. I'd give it a 6.5/10, but I'm a really critical pessimist, so that's like a 8/10 for most people I guess.
Apr 29, 2014 8:36 PM
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Apr 2014
17
Since it's heavily focused on drama, I think this anime doesn't need any deeper explanations on the Sci-fi portion. I'd give it a 10/10.
Apr 29, 2014 8:53 PM

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Jan 2013
2120
DaItalianFish said:
Shu is obviously the biggest drawback on the series as a whole, but hear me out.

You need to see him as more of an ideology than a character.

It's obvious that a young boy would never be able to do the shit he does. It's obvious that they would never be able to cope with the shit that happens. But that's not the point.

He symbolizes the optimism and persistence one needs to go through those horrible tragedies. That's the whole damn point of his character. Although he goes through tribulations, like finding out Soon was the child of the assassin or Soon's death, he still kept going and never strayed from his ideals. It's just like he said: "No matter where you are, whatever adversities you face, as long as you've got your life, something good is bound to happen". He is the physical representation of that ideology.

Sure, he's an unrealistic character in a setting full of (mostly) realistic ones. But he is needed for the show to be as good as it is, for he is the literal representation of the morale of the story. As long as you ignore his unrealism and see him as an ideology, the show makes more sense.


Nicely said i agree
Jul 2, 2014 9:42 AM

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Nov 2008
421
I'm gonna give the series an '6' because I just can't agree with some moralistic messages in the series. Aka keeping the fetus speech.
Jul 9, 2014 4:12 PM

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Jan 2014
4581
So much emotions evoked. Great ending. Simply a masterpiece.
Sep 13, 2014 1:31 PM

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Jan 2013
14160
Sure nothing is perfect. This story also isn't perfect. But almost perfect. This has been an extremely fun yet sad ride. Beautifully written and directed. A masterpiece I must say. This deserves a solid 10. Will always remember this anime. Thank you Daichi Akitarou.
Oct 23, 2014 12:45 AM

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Oct 2008
2043
Very underwhelming series overall ,it was clear as day that they went with the whole "child character getting abused/tormented " thing that was popular at the time after Neo Genesis was such a huge success.

Ignoring the production values that were downright bad at points ,especially considering its a very late 90's title it felt like was made in the 80's.My main gripes were with the story and characters:

World building was very poorly done to non existing,the time traveling aspects were only present in the first and last episodes as if they were a afterthought,could not care less for any of the character :Sara was introduced one episode,surprise rape the very next (even hentai titles have more buildup) ,the pro life crap was pretty damn moronic and came across as extremely preachy,antagonizing the villain so much to the point of making him a complete laughingstock/buffoon,main character straight up out of a kiddies shonen series ,"war is bad,victims of war,everyone suffers from war..." but were barely going to show any scenes of that certain topic (the blowing up a raided village part was presented as just glowing points on the radar) ....
amateurOct 23, 2014 12:51 AM
Oct 23, 2014 11:41 PM
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Sep 2011
34
amateur said:
Very underwhelming series overall ,it was clear as day that they went with the whole "child character getting abused/tormented " thing that was popular at the time after Neo Genesis was such a huge success.

Ignoring the production values that were downright bad at points ,especially considering its a very late 90's title it felt like was made in the 80's.My main gripes were with the story and characters:

World building was very poorly done to non existing,the time traveling aspects were only present in the first and last episodes as if they were a afterthought,could not care less for any of the character :Sara was introduced one episode,surprise rape the very next (even hentai titles have more buildup) ,the pro life crap was pretty damn moronic and came across as extremely preachy,antagonizing the villain so much to the point of making him a complete laughingstock/buffoon,main character straight up out of a kiddies shonen series ,"war is bad,victims of war,everyone suffers from war..." but were barely going to show any scenes of that certain topic (the blowing up a raided village part was presented as just glowing points on the radar) ....


WELL, THATS JUST LIKE, YOUR OPINION, MAN!!!
Nov 18, 2014 12:03 AM

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Jan 2013
13743
Yeah no

6/10
Hamdo was poorly written along with Abelia. Sara shouldn't have existed.
Nov 19, 2014 4:19 AM
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Jun 2011
14
DaItalianFish said:
Shu is obviously the biggest drawback on the series as a whole, but hear me out.

You need to see him as more of an ideology than a character.

It's obvious that a young boy would never be able to do the shit he does. It's obvious that they would never be able to cope with the shit that happens. But that's not the point.

He symbolizes the optimism and persistence one needs to go through those horrible tragedies. That's the whole damn point of his character. Although he goes through tribulations, like finding out Soon was the child of the assassin or Soon's death, he still kept going and never strayed from his ideals. It's just like he said: "No matter where you are, whatever adversities you face, as long as you've got your life, something good is bound to happen". He is the physical representation of that ideology.

Sure, he's an unrealistic character in a setting full of (mostly) realistic ones. But he is needed for the show to be as good as it is, for he is the literal representation of the morale of the story. As long as you ignore his unrealism and see him as an ideology, the show makes more sense.


I agree with this 100%. I for one was cringing at times about how unrealistic Shu's optimism was most of the time, as if he was a combination of all "good hero" tropes, a product of lazy writing. However after a while his attitude became a constant reminder that even though everything in the alien world seemed to be wrong, there was no way a product of a peaceful civilization could ever accept it or give in to pessimism. These people actually do exist even in the real world (Gandhi, Mother Theresa) although they are really scarce.

And besides, the show would've been maybe a little too dark without Shu's unwavering optimism.
Nov 28, 2014 7:07 AM
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Nov 2013
176
Sis said "no child comes into this world wanting to be rejected by its mother". Yep I agree, so let's just get rid of the fetus before it is born and turns into a child please? Or maybe someone's dying words can easily change a person completely? Now that's convenient.
(Ok seriously, can someone explain why does Sara decide to stay?)

Adelia can single handed save a ship during launch and cannot shoot accurately at a target right in front of her. She can support a dictator blindly without reason since forever and suddenly decides to give him up.

And after all this, for Sara to stay and for Shu to go back just seems....weird. I mean, they could have actually ended up as a couple LOL

I love the song when the ending credits rolled. Pretty good series.
RavenWishNov 28, 2014 7:48 AM
Feb 3, 2015 2:15 PM
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Dec 2014
780
At the time I am typing this IS in Syria and Iraq is breeding child soldiers and selling women on the slave-market. If only this stuff happens in anime :(
Feb 3, 2015 6:05 PM

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Mar 2014
2752
Not a bad ending, but something about this whole series has felt just a little off to me. The progression of the story and the characters felt pretty flat throughout. That is to say, I feel like while a lot of stuff happened, none of it ended up being central to the overall plot, making the whole show feel drawn out.
The first episode is still my favorite part of the whole show, it really just steadily went downhill after that.

These last two episodes bring it back to a normal pace, but I'm still left somewhat unsatisfied by the show.
Perhaps part of it has to do with many of the dramatic moments coming out of left-field and feeling forced. I felt like very few of the dramatic scenes had a proper buildup and were actually earned.

When it comes to my final rating for the show, I'm debating between giving it a 7 and an 8... but I'm leaning more towards a 7.
The show is above average, and has some interesting moments, but it's also got some glaring flaws and it's not something I'd immediately recommend to people.
vigorousjammerFeb 3, 2015 6:13 PM
::End of Transmission::


Jul 30, 2015 8:50 PM
News Team
YEEHAW

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Nov 2014
9462
It was a really, really good serie overall but theres some stuff that annoyed me, especially in the second half for example with Shu who stays pretty much the same overall, always saying the same thing like with Sara wanting to kill herself. Well, its normal to try cheering someone in this kind of moment but saying the same fuckin things again and again till she fuckin get it ... urgh.

the lasts episodes i thought it was .. pretty rushed.

I kinda wanted to give it a 9 but i'll go with a 8, which is still really good, its just there was some stuff that annoyed me here and here. Thats sad tho, after the first half i was thinking that maybe it could even have a 10/10 if it was still going strong in the second half but ... yeah.
STOP SLEEPING ON ODD TAXI

Sep 27, 2015 5:45 PM

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Aug 2015
15
The show would have been good if it didn't try to push that stupid pro-life message. Wth was up with that BS?! Shu and Sis pressuring Sara into keeping her future rape baby after she went through multiple rapes by different soldiers just destroyed the show. And wtf was that lame attempt at the end to redeem the soldier rapist?! Can't judge a rapist by his cover right? I honestly can't fathom some of these moronic comments advocating for her to keep the rape baby.

Also, the protagonist Shu was really getting on my nerves with his stupid Naruto talk-no-jutsu crap. Absolutely nothing realistic there at all. Especially the ending. Shu deciding to go back and Sara deciding to stay in the apocalyptic hell-hole to raise her kid and the orphans instead of returning to her family in America. The moral message on rape here was just barbaric and pro-life to the point where only religious zealots would support. I give this garbage a 3/10.
NiNjA_kSep 27, 2015 8:04 PM
Oct 6, 2015 8:37 PM

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May 2012
1066
overall a pretty good watch, i think the theme exploration was pretty on point and the tale it had to tell was decent as well. My biggest issue with this show was the characters though, by far the weakest part in my opinion, their motivation was really weak for the most part and they lacked any real development. sara got decent development at the end, but that was after being shafted almost the entire series. most of the characters were really unlikable and annoying (yes i understand that characters like hamdo and the other soldier kid werent meant to be liked), but i mean all the characters, shu was rather annoying, abelia was too submissive, nabuca was an idiot... i could go on, but ill leave it at that, i think ill put it at a 7/10 for now
Oct 16, 2015 2:57 PM
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Sep 2014
475
frequency15k said:
overall a pretty good watch, i think the theme exploration was pretty on point and the tale it had to tell was decent as well. My biggest issue with this show was the characters though, by far the weakest part in my opinion, their motivation was really weak for the most part and they lacked any real development. sara got decent development at the end, but that was after being shafted almost the entire series. most of the characters were really unlikable and annoying (yes i understand that characters like hamdo and the other soldier kid werent meant to be liked), but i mean all the characters, shu was rather annoying, abelia was too submissive, nabuca was an idiot... i could go on, but ill leave it at that, i think ill put it at a 7/10 for now


This, also, lots of stuff was left unexplained. I would be nice if we got some background of that world/time or w.e. What was Lala Ru exactly? Also, except Lala Ru, Sara, Soon, Sis and that little guy, no one was likable. Hamdo is classic retarded crazy bad guy. I dont understand why would someone follow someone like him, its not like he had whole top of the country behind him, he was alone. They gave soldier kids weapons, why didnt they turn against him instead of killing innocent and abducting them like they were too. They didnt have gun pointed at them 24/7. What was the reason why would Abelia followed such a guy? But despite all that and bunch of other stuff, show was fun to watch.
Oct 20, 2015 10:34 AM

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May 2012
38
9/10
The end was so beautiful ♥.
I almost cried when Nabuca died ;___;.
Glad that the end wasn't sad like what I expected =p.
Jan 10, 2016 5:09 PM

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Apr 2014
13385
Damn, I'm glad I didn't end up dropping this. It ended up being surprisingly good. I don't generally like a MC that wants to blindly save every single person but he seemed to work out for this series.
Feb 3, 2016 7:22 AM

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Mar 2010
5223
Rated it a 9/10 and i almost forgot shu was from another world lol
It felt really complete yet a lil bit was left to your imagination which is good. :) i felt this was a great ending instead of making it cliche they let lala ru "go" which felt like a proper ending to me yes sad but it felt lacking if it were suddenly to become an oh we are all oh so happy and forget everything end
Feb 5, 2016 11:41 PM

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May 2015
192
Well that was awesome. 10/10 anime right there.
Feb 28, 2016 1:29 AM

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Jul 2014
47
All-in-all I liked the decadence and the 80s vibe. The mood felt similar to Nausicaä, albeit slightly more controversial elements and a script that's not even close in quality.

Impressed they sort of tied it together. Biggest qualms are Shu's character - I don't want to call his lightheartedness for optimism, but rather a refusal to reflect on things and how people are motivated to do some things, he just became buzzwords and violence in the end. You do not pressure a rape victim to keep a child while she is literally trying to beat the fetus out with a rock (take the hint - she did NOT want to keep it, and that's her goddamn decision). You do also not try to ratify your fulfillment of your promise to save someone, when you ultimately leave her alone in a world where she knows no one and have the responsibility for five young children. Basically the dude's an asshole. I will however admit that he is a child.

Second qualm and the biggest in my opinion: why the f*ck does Sara stay in this shithole of a world? Then only thing she's experienced in this world is confinement, violence, rape, hunger and thirst. That's the laziest writing I've ever seen. Narratively or at least according to writing tradition a secondary protagonist like that usually stays back in the world they go to, however you cannot justify that in this series at all.

Third qualm is the pro-life message and chastisement of rape victims. The way they tried to make it that the presumed father (or at least rapist that seemed to want to rape her again) was a actually a good guy and saved a child, was repulsve and made me shout "no, no, no you did NOT just do that" (i actually did that for once, might have been a few curses there as well though). Nevermind that the guy was a stupid, plan revealing, stalking, child-raping murderer and bringer of doom to Zari Bars, but he sort of saved a random kid, so I guess he's a great guy. Sis' deathwish was basically for an underaged stepmother of five to ALONE bring a new child to a world without a government, healthcare, housing, farming, water and basic governance (mind you they just destroyed the empire). Not a nice last wish in my opinion. A terrible burden to put on a young person. Basicallly the pro-life message was too extreme. It's a fetus not a child - she's obviously fertile she can get another one when the is right and SHE HAS GIVEN HER CONSENT TO HAVE ONE! I'm appalled that some people advocate that rape victims should be forced to keep their fetuses to term, and I'm disappointed that this series did not have the guts to treat Sara's character with more respect.

Sotty about the rambling, it most likely doesn't make much sense. I enjoyed the 80s vibe and some of the subject matter, so I'm gonna rate it a 5/10.
Mar 1, 2016 8:47 AM

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Apr 2015
220
I didn't like the ending to this at all really. It was just like "Oh ya I forgot Shoe is a Japanese boy okay have fun go back to Japan by by let's tie up loose ends as quickly as possible."

This anime is the kind of anime that rides on emotions so much that people overrate it. It's really not as smart or clever as most people make it out to be, the characters are one-dimensional and never really progress besides Nabuca and Sarah, and because of that, I rate it a 7/10 which translates to a real score of 76/100. Keep in mind that for me, that's a high score.

Favorite Characters :
Nabuca
Sarah
observing a woman's body
Mar 17, 2016 4:53 PM

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Jun 2009
74
Wow this was so badly written, characters, story, setting, lore, development, message, conclusion all terrible written I only manage to finish it, because it started with an i, and I need the i for my A-Z completed list :-/
Apr 16, 2016 9:27 AM
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May 2015
345
10/10 one of the best anime i've ever watched.

i can understand the poor reception on this page specifically if you haven't delved deep into more noir, arthouse, western film; but its all poor critique frankly that doesn't judge this anime for what it is.

this series is heavily influenced by western literature such as Dune and artistically by the dystopian films that were popular in the 80s and 90s.

the cinematography is awe-inspiring despite the quite obviously low budget. frankly, I can compltely ignore the poor animation quality because of the cinematography and brilliant use of contrast and color.

Thematically this show is brilliant even if its nothing new. The characterization is perfect, I'm not sure how anyone can say this is poor writing. The dialogue is brilliantly weighted.
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Jun 15, 2016 9:02 AM
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Jun 2016
1
OK, so I just binged watched this series, read this forum, and here's my thoughts;

I definitely wanted context on this world. The show wasted :40 seconds every fliping episode on that stupid saying with some blowy wind. . . how about take that time and tell us about the world- it doesn't take much! Was Hamdo born into ruling and the last of a bloodline. It would make sense because how the heck else could he gain power? He is not high-functioning enough to hold conversations! And why do people follow him? If no one has loyalty (except Abelia), and everyone is tired, ungry, upset- why hasn't there been an internal revolt for power? Or is that how each leader becomes a leader? The usurper? Arg. World building.

Lala Ru- I hated her from the first minute. Shu is overly obsessed with saving her and the only way that she can make sense as such an empty void (how many minutes of screen time do we need of just her vacant eyes and nothing else) is that she is not human and is practically void of all personality. I hated the scene in the cave where she just went catatonic and Shu offers to carry her. . . I was just like . . are you flippin' kidding me? Everyone else is fighting and starving and dying and being raped and barely clinging on with bared teeth and she's just like "oh woe is me, I shall simply sit here and contemplate my own woes" The only way I cannot hate her is to believe that she has been around for so long that she really just doesn't care. . . but then why would she asked to be saved and run in the first place? Yeah, never mind- I take it back. She can heck off and try to taskette herself. Geez.

Sara- Of all the characters, I think she has the most interesting story and development. She saves herself, which is props in my book. And I'd like to think that the one soldier dude didn't rape her just because it would offer some kind of contrast among all the guys there (and I also don't like the "all the dudes are into rape" theme that was going on there. I'd like to think that there HAD to be some men that would be like "nope, no thanks. Screaming, batter, bawling suicidal isn't really my kink") I can also completely see why she would hate Lala Ru, but other than just "it's her fault I'm here" Sara was kidnapped just for looking like Lala Ru, but when it was discovered that she's not "the magic savior angel", Sara is discarded. No one comes to rescue her- she just gets dumped in a cell and forgotten. . . and then raped daily? I don't think Shu even mentions the girl he left behind while he's traveling away with his perfect, doe-eyed Lala Ru. And I have to agree with most everyone else here- I hated that she kept the baby. My guess is that conservative Japan was (is) not ready to go that far in an anime? Regardless- it felt sooo forced. I really hope that Shu sticking his hand in the way of the rock was an attempt to save Sara and not just to save a baby (aka- preventing Sara from her choice). I think it would have made most watchers more content to know that the rock was a crazed/desperate suicide attempt and the baby was lost due to that first thump- conveniently absolving Sara of abortion. And finally- I hate that she stayed in the world "for the/her children" purpose. I think a perfect line could have just been "I'll return when I'm ready, I'm just not ready yet" Then we could just assume that she has found purpose in that world and is working through her trauma and THEN when she feels ready, she can return to her own world, family, and friends.

Rapey/Not-Rapey Soldier Dude- He kind of ratted out the village when he could have just deserted at that point, so it's kind of hard to feel sympathy for him. He does try to "save Sara" by asking her to run away with him. . . but I think that could have been so much more satisfying if he and Shu were the only ones in Hellywood that showed her kindness and if he had deserted Hellywood. Anywho., he ratted out the village and I'm pretty sure he must have rejoined the armyside of Hellywood during the attack because how else would he have ended up inside the flying Hellywood, perfectly positioned to save one kid and redeem himself (unless he was stalking Sara through Helywood because how the heck else did he just happen to be in the right place at the right time. . or did I miss something?)

Shu- Too unrealistic. One of my favorite interactions was when Sara said something like "You're words do/mean nothing" because I think that just hit the nail on the head. Saying "everything will be ok!" is not going to make anything ok.
Jun 15, 2016 10:54 PM

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Jan 2013
2120
I watched this anime a while ago but I come back to this thread sometimes to see people's reaction to it, here's my take:

While the world building was pretty underwhelming, and it had so much potential to explore deeper into the how things became the way they were, one could also argue that the lack of world building and explaining is part of what makes the anime more mysterious. Although I agree that it's not an excuse because leaving it to the audience's imagination is just being kind of lazy. I still think this anime was great because it really really left me empty when I finished. It's one of those anime's that really tugs at your existential heart strings. Leaving your mind empty and your ego shattered by the time it's done. Still I feel like this anime should have been 25 episodes with some very in depth background info and world building.

Also, the ending OST is one of the most beautiful pieces of music that I have had the pleasure of listening to in this life.
Jul 7, 2016 12:18 PM

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Oct 2013
112
KingKatsura said:
10/10 one of the best anime i've ever watched.

i can understand the poor reception on this page specifically if you haven't delved deep into more noir, arthouse, western film; but its all poor critique frankly that doesn't judge this anime for what it is.

this series is heavily influenced by western literature such as Dune and artistically by the dystopian films that were popular in the 80s and 90s.

the cinematography is awe-inspiring despite the quite obviously low budget. frankly, I can compltely ignore the poor animation quality because of the cinematography and brilliant use of contrast and color.

Thematically this show is brilliant even if its nothing new. The characterization is perfect, I'm not sure how anyone can say this is poor writing. The dialogue is brilliantly weighted.


I don't know how you can label the in-depth criticisms of this show and its frankly abhorrent message about rape victims being obligated to bear their unwanted children as being "all poor critique". Maybe this anime is influenced by those dystopian films, but the blatant pushing of excessively pro-life views and subpar characterization are still glaring enough flaws to warrant legitimate criticism. Just because a work of art is symbolic and evocative doesn't make it immune to criticism.

You compare this show to Dune, but Dune didn't throw a poorly executed character into a post-apocalyptic world with virtually no explanation or world-building. The books had incredible lore and political intrigue, significant reasons towards why they were so compelling. There is no such equivalent exposition in this anime, which makes it harder to take seriously.

I agree that some cinematic shots were pretty beautiful, but the writing and dialogue were not really well thought out due to the unrealistic actions of Shu as mentioned by others before. Also, the characterization is not perfect, and I'm seriously confused how you can think that way when you have a comical villain with virtually no backstory in a show dealing with grimdark themes.

And thematically, this show is not at all brilliant, but rather feels almost exploitative in how they try to put the children through hell to make up for its shortcomings. Maybe that's just because I can't really condone extremely horrific subject matter such as child rape unless it's completely justified, and this anime, instead of providing justification, even twists Sara's plight to further the anime's unabashedly detestable message about forcing child rape victims to carry to term. Trying to redeem one of Sara's rapists at the end was the last straw; it was completely uncalled for and further demonstrates how distastefully the anime handles such subject matter. I honestly cannot fathom why so many people regard this anime so highly.

Frankly, I felt like puking after watching. I'm too disgusted to even rate it.
suikaMUSICJul 7, 2016 11:41 PM
Jul 14, 2016 2:12 AM

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Dec 2014
252
mrdkreka said:
Wow this was so badly written, characters, story, setting, lore, development, message, conclusion all terrible written I only manage to finish it, because it started with an i, and I need the i for my A-Z completed list :-/


+ There is no logic in this show.
Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM

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Apr 2015
220
KingKatsura said:
10/10 one of the best anime i've ever watched.

i can understand the poor reception on this page specifically if you haven't delved deep into more noir, arthouse, western film; but its all poor critique frankly that doesn't judge this anime for what it is.

this series is heavily influenced by western literature such as Dune and artistically by the dystopian films that were popular in the 80s and 90s.

the cinematography is awe-inspiring despite the quite obviously low budget. frankly, I can compltely ignore the poor animation quality because of the cinematography and brilliant use of contrast and color.

Thematically this show is brilliant even if its nothing new. The characterization is perfect, I'm not sure how anyone can say this is poor writing. The dialogue is brilliantly weighted.


lmao one of the worst comments ive ever heard please learn how to analyze things before making a comment defending them
observing a woman's body
Jan 22, 2017 1:14 AM
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Jan 2017
3
Seeing as this forum still gets some replies and views, I figure I can throw in my own thoughts since I've only just finished it.

I'll admit. I came into the show with some high expectations--I'd heard good things about it from people I often share tastes with, but despite its solid casts and all the ingredients necessary for a wonderful show, the world-building and, of course, the main character actively anchored the show into mediocrity. In the end, I was extremely disappointed.

Starting with the good, the show handled many of the more controversial themes with more care than I had originally expected to be capable of. The scene in which Nabuca and Boo casually leave Sara to her fate with a soldier near the beginning sets an intensely tragic tone for the show, a tragedy in which Sara is introduced to and the children have become jaded to it all.

Similarly, each of the characters are forced to find ways to cope with the broken world, often leaving them, to a similar degree, broken themselves, driving each of their character developments in different, but interesting, directions. Nabuta stubbornly holds onto a village which no longer exists, Sara has to find ways in which to cope with the newly exposed horrors, Tabool is entirely defeated and sold on the new empire. Each character strives to add to this bleak nature and present coping mechanisms, whether it's a part of their arc or the narrative, and does so in meaningful ways.

Unfortunately, while the cast surrounding the main character are solidly crafted, Shu suffer from a classic case of 1 dimensional. Character development can happen in a myriad of ways which coincides with preserving the idealistic nature of Shu, however Shu's ideals are rarely ever given the chance to interact with the world. Unfortunately, any character that interacts with Shu is also given the same treatment. The greatest example of this is within episode 13 itself when Boo is killed and Shu is spared due to a well timed order to cease fire removing the climatic conflict of ideals between Shu, Nabuca, and Tabool. Scattered throughout the series are similarly built deus ex machinas which allows for Shu's ideals to go unchallenged at the last second which leads myself and, seemingly many others, to become frustrated with the lack of confrontation. Unfortunately, the world building suffers from a similar 1 dimension issue.

The world in this series baffles me. One would presume hi-tech, but none of it is ever explained to any extent. Why does a time machine exist, but not the ability to create water? Why is the world destroyed? Is the battleship the nation or is there a larger place farther out? What are the stakes in this war aside from a tiny, peaceful village? I don't even understand why the people of this world aren't just using the bound system to escape the desolate world or why Sara doesn't just take the kids back with her to America. Sara and Shu have no problems coming to the post-apocalyptic wasteland. Why not the other way around? There's no explanation nor do I have any desire for exploration in this world because it seems so empty. The hi-tech is almost never prevalent, and I can't name a single really interesting location besides the battleship. Hell, I can count the number of total locations revealed on a single hand.

In the end, I had to give it a 6/10. I've seen some of these themes in the show done better in books such as "All Quiet in the Western Front" and even in other anime like "Jin Rou". I understand what the author's is trying to say here, that violence will only ever beget more violence and despair, as made very clear in the discussions between Sis and the radical fighter, but the main character was not a good vessel for this. A much better protagonist would have been Nabuca himself and the transportation to another world would have been much better left out since it added nothing.

In addition, I'm a bit new to forums in general so tell me if these walls of text are a bit much.
Jan 22, 2017 3:09 AM

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Dec 2015
6449
@Hendocks Well organised thoughts put in a written form are never walls of text. (they are rarer and far more interesting).

Based on the french DVDs documentation (that I sadly can't check right now, so please excuse the lack of infos), the director or writer was given a project whose pitch was a vague "young boy lost in another world". From this, he didn't want to give the same usual thing ("boring" or "too common", not sure what he said). My interviews go way further than that but I have no way to access them right now, sorry.
In the same bonuses, it is stated that Shû is supposed to be a person from a safe country (someone raised in a bubble if you want) suddenly facing war in another one (I think I remember Daichi saiying he used a documentary about African children soldiers) when he has no idea about that. His behaviour is said to come from there (and I guess it kind of try to counter-balance everything else).


About the worldbuilding, I doubt the show intended to build a world, only a bleak vision of a possible future exhausted Earth.
Rei_IIIJan 22, 2017 4:26 AM
Jan 22, 2017 1:38 PM
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Jan 2017
3
@Rei366 That French interview would be interesting to see. If that's what he was handed at the beginning, then I have a newfound appreciation that this is what he decided to create.

Unfortunately, it still doesn't excuse the world building. Speaking from experience, a minimal degree of world building isn't difficult. A world map here, an extra dialogue or two there about cooking to make a culture seem more alive. The world is indeed an exhausted Earth, but it doesn't go any further than that, really.

With that said, I'd still like to see more of Mr. Daichi's work sometime in the future. Its been roughly 17 years since this series came out, so I'm curious to see how his work has grown.
Mar 15, 2017 9:14 PM

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Feb 2016
459
Unfortunately, the show punched far above its weight. You have weird inconsistencies where soldiers miss at close range. Shu, the main character, is a one dimensional walking talking ideology. At the end it became palatable, much like forcing yourself to eat olives until you don't hate it. But it was a struggle. And for that I'm glad!

I came into this rather neutral, having read the gushing reviews and the rant reviews.

This is one of the best anti-war anime I've ever seen, not because it covered every complex issue delicately. But because it covered it at all. It didn't shy from showing young girls being raped (comfort women). It showed the steps the military took to procure children, rear child soldiers, blackmail and brainwash them into complying and the final product being a child soldier that either learns to love the power of killing people or become an empty shell of a human.

In regards to Shu, he is probably the best 'gary stu' character I've seen. He has invulnerable plot armor, but you can't help but respect and be swayed by his charismatic determination to stick to his ideals. At the final episode, even then, watching his two friends on both sides of the conflict gunned down, he chose to shoot at the ground. All the pain, the torture, the killing. He choose to forgive! And in the process he broke the cycle of violence when Nabuca's last gesture was to give him his stick back! Mandela!

I also love how Hamdo's death was portrayed. Almost like water washing out the filth. There is no need to spend time desecrating a defeated corpse (Mussolini). He simply is cleaned out like garbage by the very water that he obsessed about. Shu with his Moses rod with righteous anger, broke his stick over the Pharoah's back before he was washed away by the red sea.
Cloud_IllusionsMar 15, 2017 9:34 PM
Nothing can happen until you swing the bat.
Mar 15, 2017 9:30 PM

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Feb 2016
459
What a beautiful serene scene as Shu and Lala-ru, calmly watched the sunset. Lala-ru slowly disappears, her only desire through it all was to watch another sunset with Shu.

Shu doesn't realise immediately but a brief unmistakable look of dispair is plastered across his face and his arm slowly drops to the ground as if to accept the reality of her passing. But he knew it would come to this, and to some degree Shu convinced Lala-ru that humans are innately good, that they are worth saving. Practicing what he preached, Shu still stands by his convictions and still maintains he meant what he said to Sara. What a great ending of imperfect simplicity. It's funny that a simple ending carries far more realistic weight than the usual overly detailed closed up endings we see in anime that answer every little query viewers had. It is heartbreakingly eternal, a fitting end to a masterpiece.

Now the overall ending. I think it tied in perfectly to everything Shu stood for, the senseless cycle of violence and the recurring theme of hope. The ending is brave enough to not answer everything. Life is complex and miserable, but you just have to dust yourself off everytime and move forward with your entire spirit. Not with grand gestures and actions, but with every excruciating step. The scene where Shu looks somberly at Sara as if to give courage to her and then with a look of true sorrow as he looks at the Japanese sunset, the land of the setting sun, is a testament to how strong Shu is after the entire experience. It's subtle, but Shu has grown as a person. And then he picks up his weighty baggage and finally begins the journey home.
Cloud_IllusionsMar 15, 2017 9:43 PM
Nothing can happen until you swing the bat.
Jul 2, 2017 4:24 AM

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Sep 2014
1279
Miragee said:
Maybe they'll add some thoughtful silence by Lala Ru or some shouting by Sara or some blind obedience by Abelia.


I guess 1.5/3.

amateur said:
Very underwhelming series overall ,it was clear as day that they went with the whole "child character getting abused/tormented " thing that was popular at the time after Neo Genesis was such a huge success.

Ignoring the production values that were downright bad at points ,especially considering its a very late 90's title it felt like was made in the 80's.My main gripes were with the story and characters:

World building was very poorly done to non existing,the time traveling aspects were only present in the first and last episodes as if they were a afterthought,could not care less for any of the character :Sara was introduced one episode,surprise rape the very next (even hentai titles have more buildup) ,the pro life crap was pretty damn moronic and came across as extremely preachy,antagonizing the villain so much to the point of making him a complete laughingstock/buffoon,main character straight up out of a kiddies shonen series ,"war is bad,victims of war,everyone suffers from war..." but were barely going to show any scenes of that certain topic (the blowing up a raided village part was presented as just glowing points on the radar) ....


Completely agree with you. The only point I would argue with you is the surprise rape of Sara. If you pay attention you can see that she had been raped before Shu met her, hence her fear of him. It's really sad because the setting had a lot of potential but they wasted all their time on shitty character-writing, uninspired-dialouges and stupid drama due to stupid characters. That way they didn't have any time for decent world-building. How is Shu's world connected to the world of NTHT? Shu asked a few questions in the beginning but they were never answered. Sara seemed to know something but it was never followed up upon. It turned out that Abelia probably knew a lot about this as well. So they had enough options to add some information here and there but they didn't.

Hamdo and his continuous reign made no sense at all. But kajia's review on the front page covered that part perfectly.
Aug 30, 2017 3:27 PM

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Aug 2012
446
I liked the show alot, it wasn't without it's faults but I enjoyed the action adventure vibe of the series. It was alot like Future Boy Conan just with a darker edge.

I think Shu was alittle too idealistic for sure and it did frustrate at times but it also brought up debate through the show. It catered to both sides of an argument and neither side has it all their own way, even by the end of the show. So though I did find the idealism from Shu alittle annoying on occasion the same can be said of the naivety of other characters also, especially Nabuca.

As I say I think this is one of the major parts of the shows story and is intentional even if it could have been toned down abit. I straddled the fence on alot of the issues brought up. Bloodshed only breeds more Bloodshed and so it proved but some of the actions of characters like Shu and Sister serves to only prolong the inevitable and action sometimes must be taken but it should never be done so lightly and I think the show did a good job expressing that. I don't think it was trying to provide an answer, instead present the questions and the flaws of both ideals as well as the pros of them. The show was quite effective at this.

But there was certainly one pretty major flaw and that was the characters of Abelia and Hamdo. Hamdo is incredibly 1 dimensional as a villian. Basically we learn he is crazy and power hungry and thats about it. No reasons why he got to be that way he just is and thats a missed oppurtunity. He certainly was a total SOB and easy to hate but I wish his depth went beyond spoilt manchild scared of his own shadow and that we could of seen some sort of backstory or arc for him. Even if he was always like that be it environment or his parents or literally any explanation for it would have added alot to the show.

Abelia also annoyed me somewhat because we never learn why she is so committed to Hamdo, we might presume she loves him for some reason but we never learn why she possibly would. Some sort of back story perhaps showing a more normal Hamdo before he lost his way in a flashback so we could see why Abelia was so hell bent on delivery of his will despite how abused she was by him. While my idea for a flashback of that sort is hardly original it would have helped humanize Hamdo and Abelia. It also would have made Hamdo a much more palatable character to deal with and so when Shu stands by his ideals and refuses to kill him perhaps knowing Hamdo wasn't always like this or again even if he was at least knowing why would have gone along way to help that scene and many others. Because while I'm pleased Shu kept it together I just wanted someone to put a bullet between Hamdo's eyes for ages by that point. So when Abelia lets Hamdo drown it was more of a 'about damn time that bastard died' followed shortly by a 'well thank you Abelia, I'm glad you finally opened your eyes but also why only now!?'. That train of thought alone bore out it's own frustrations. Abelia has no character arc to get to that point, she is abused by Hamdo from the get go so why she would see fit to assist creating his death only now was a little hard to swallow.

But when all is said and done (and I've said alot) I still really enjoyed the show. It was a good adventure with some nice animation, a solid ost and some good albeit flawed characters. I was totally engrossed and be it that was through enjoyment of the adventure or total frustration from naive and occasionally annoying characters I was still hooked and thats a positive no matter how you look at it in my book.

9/10
BlaizeVAug 30, 2017 3:34 PM
Aug 31, 2017 7:36 AM
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Dec 2014
3
BlaizeV said:
But there was certainly one pretty major flaw and that was the characters of Abelia and Hamdo. Hamdo is incredibly 1 dimensional as a villian. Basically we learn he is crazy and power hungry and thats about it. No reasons why he got to be that way he just is and thats a missed oppurtunity. He certainly was a total SOB and easy to hate but I wish his depth went beyond spoilt manchild scared of his own shadow and that we could of seen some sort of backstory or arc for him. Even if he was always like that be it environment or his parents or literally any explanation for it would have added alot to the show.

Hamdo is actually a pretty interesting character in my opinion. I've read somewhere here that some character explains that he was a good leader in the past, but his obsession with Lala-Ru drove him insane. I don't know if that's true as I don't specifically recall that scene, but even his behaviors hint towards this. Whenever he has one of his outbursts, he exhibits this calm and collected behavior directly afterwards. I suspect that during these moments of clarity we can get a glimpse of how Hamdo used to be before he went mad. Personally, I think he is frightening during these moments, so cold and calculating (the acting is great as well). I don't find it hard to believe that such a person can get into a position of power and make it as far as Hamdo does.
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