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How would you rate this anime?
Mar 26, 2010 10:21 AM
#1

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Spotlight Anime: Simoun



MAL Anime Information Page: Simoun


MAL Score – 7.78 (by 2523 users)
Ranked - #539
Popularity - #760

For the next week I would like to have a discussion about the anime that focuses on the key elements that we here on MAL use to critically rate an anime: Animation, Sound, Characters, Story, and Enjoyment.

I would like everyone to approach this thread as if you were going to write a review and structure your initial post like this:


Animation - insert rating
Sound - insert rating
Characters - insert rating
Story - insert rating
Enjoyment - insert rating

Animation - discuss any pros and cons of the animation styling used in the series, try to include some specifics.

Sound - describe any of the things you liked or didn't care for in regards to the music and sound effects used in the series

etc...



If you are having trouble writing up a review or coming up with specific pros and cons, please don't worry. Just do the best you can with it and if you can only write two or three sentences about any of the 5 elements then that's OK. Not everyone here is currently at a level which will allow them to articulate their thoughts and opinions.

After your initial post is made you can feel free to civilly discuss issues of contention. I am sure there will be many opinions expressed here that some of us will disagree upon and criticise and it is for that reason that this entire club exists. So I hope everyone has fun and I am really looking forward to watching this discussion unfold.

RESULTS OF THE YOU DECIDE POLL

Simoun was NOT inducted into the club Anime list:
18 Yes - 58.0%
13 No - 41.9%

48 Don't know this anime - 60.7% of the total number polled
0 Abstained - 0.0% of the total number polled


*Since this series has made the cut-off percentage-wise but has failed to gather enough votes, it is now once more available for nomination due to rule changes. (August 2011)


RESULTS OF THE YOU DECIDE POLL

Simoun was inducted into the club Anime list:
15 Yes - 93.7%
1 No - 6.2%

68 Don't know this anime - 79.0% of the total number polled
2 Abstained - 2.3% of the total number polled

On 10/08/2010, Simoun will have to be voted on for a second time
santetjanJan 6, 2012 8:10 AM
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Mar 26, 2010 2:30 PM
#2

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From a message exchange I had with Simoun's nominator, santetjan, Daisuki-chan said:
I enjoyed how Simoun became darker than it seemed at first, since I relate to and enjoy darker themes and plots. I also enjoyed how there were many pieces of it developed deeply enough and well enough for me, my favorite being Mamiina x Rodoreamon (I loved that Rodoreamon adopted Mamiina's hairstyle in remembrance of her at the end). I also liked how the plots for some of the pairs seemed adventurous or special to me (I enjoy good adventure), such as Yun taking Onashia's place as high priestess, or Dominura and Limone's plot. The shoujo-ai wasn't even needed, but it was certainly icing on the cake to me, since shoujo-ai romances and attractions are the only romances and attractions I enjoy.

Simoun is the best shoujo-ai series I've ever seen, and is good even without the shoujo-ai! santetjan and others have additional reasons for favoring it, too, but I will only mention my reasons in this post.

I know shoujo-ai typically aren't as liked or valued as hetero-ai are, but I hope enough people here can see past that and recognize Simoun's excellence!

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Mar 26, 2010 4:15 PM
#3

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Simoun is one of the most under-appreciated series I've ever seen. It's got a complex story coupled with some interesting and deep characters, and the way the plot develops is wondefully subtle. The clash between politics, religion and technology is portrayed extremely well.

A yes from me.
What a day! What a lovely Day!
Mar 26, 2010 7:12 PM
#4

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Let's get this out of the way first: yes, Simoun has a deserved reputation for trying to reel in viewers by prominently showing a world filled with women, not a few of them liking each other a lot. This, perhaps, though an interesting idea from a point of view of marketing, might not have been the best one in terms of radiating artistic quality. But let's get another thing out of the way, too: were Simoun to be filled only with young men, more than half its detractors would have considered it the greatest thing since Achilles and Patroklos. So there.

Me having nominated Simoun for weeks more or less obliges me to say that one has to look beyond the kissing damsels. Yet I will not, and will instead say that one should look more closely, as there is more to this choice than a keen eye for what the average anime viewer likes. Set in a world where everyone is born outwardly female and chooses before its god what gender to go through adult life, most of the main cast are the so-called simoun sibyllae, priestesses of a holy order who have, at least for a while, foregone this choice in order to serve their god. They are the chosen few, the ones who have all options left; they are, by not having chosen their gender, a sexual act in the literal sense of the word if ever there was one, the virginal and the unspoilt.

The series starts with introducing these virgin priestesses in their setting, a fictional world dominated by a powerful theocracy that venerates a double-aspected god by understanding the simoun to be holy machines the movements of which themselves form a liturgical language, the Remergion/Ri Maajon/Fred, so that piloting them becomes an act of high prayer. This translates itself to a setting that displays a very peculiar and noteworthy - especially within the generally anti-clerical realm of anime - focus on religion and religiosity. From the bat, the series sets out to have its cast recognise itself as clergy performing a holy duty, treating the simoun with reverence and being a bit aghast at any skepticism: moreover, and this is handled with the subtlety that so many anime portrayals of people-losing-their-faith lack, the few skeptics are themselves somewhat apprehensive about what it should mean if this skepticism proves true. Interestingly played, too, is the fact that the sibyllae seem to expect their mere presence to awe anyone into submission - a fact that stems from the happenstance that the language of the simoun is not only suitable for prayer but can be harnessed as the most powerful weapon of the fictional world, yet which temporal power goes completely unappreciated by the sibyllae.
Sadly, though, even if this importance of the religious undertones of everything they do - up to the point of them being a bit self-important - shines through, at first what the viewer will be presented with is the reality of what these priestesses, by necessity still relatively young, are: brats. This means that much of the earlier episodes is filled with the chattering and whining so typical of teenage girls in all anime, doing little to dispel the notion that Simoun is more than a yuri-fest. Worse, the introduction of what most will probably consider the main character, at least until halfway through the show, Aeru (Air/Aer/Henry), brash and irreverent and a pilot because of her love for flying, not because of a religious calling, immediately typecasts her as the action hero with a flair for the heretical beaten to death in a hundred shows before this one. Even the disapproval of the other sibyllae of her motives is wholly within type, even if it is played rather a bit more earnestly than in most shows.

In the course of the first few episodes, however, it becomes apparent that there is yet another reason for young maidens to join the ranks of the simoun sibyllae. Falling outside of the secular order, being able to become a sibylla means that there is an option to choose between the shilling and the cloth when the theocracy finds itself at war.
This war becomes the vehicle of change, the change in the social order that turns out to be the main theme of Simoun. The war is, then, itself not very intensely shown, as the attention lies on the effects it has, and is handled a bit differently than 'war' is in most anime. Indicative of this is the fact that the faces of the enemy are almost never shown, strengthening the notion that they are The Other. Moreover, and this is a really underrepresented element in anime, the enemy is shown to speak a different language, making communication between the warring parties far more difficult and making him all the more alien to the main characters.
Naturally, with the war comes the desire by the theocracy's military to use the terrible power of the simoun for military purposes. Equally naturally, the sybillae protest against this appropriation of God's own wonders for such purposes. It is here that the series takes on a decidedly darker outlook. Though the protesting voices of the sibyllae may, in practice, take the form of the whining of little girls - something that will undoubtedly have lead to them not being taken seriously - and though the viewer might be tempted to see the girls as little brats who aren't prepared to sacrifice something for the greater good, it must be remembered that they speak from the firm belief that what they are doing is a religious service, something wholly removed from the secular world. To want to use the simoun as military materiel is, within the ages-old order, blasphemous. Yet, as must be, the needs of concrete reality prevail and the cross is brought low by the sword.
The effects thereof are far-reaching, yet become visible only subtly and slowly. First, with the sibyllae becoming part of the military and actually having to serve on the front, their ranks are quickly thinning: their holy purpose gone and in the face of death, for the first time ever people want actively out. Second, with the simoun becoming profane and the sibyllae being secularised, people slowly start losing their respect for them, especially when these divine weapons actually fail to turn the enemy onslaught. As they start visibly losing their privileges and luxuries, it becomes certain that, whatever the outcome of the war, the respect once felt towards the holy simoun and the status of their sibyllae will have been lost from social opinion.
Then something happens that, again, is very, very rare in anime: the war is lost. True, there are enough shows that have their characters be on the losing side of a war, but this usually concerns historical reality and is focused on the wretchedness of the direct aftermath of the war for the characters. Simoun, however, is placed in a fictional setting, where no necessity of history dictates the story, and is focused on a somewhat grander scale, as the viewer gets to see how the dismantling of the simoun forces and the role of the clerical order (should it be kept to a certain extent to not tear down the social order of the conquered overly much?) are being discussed at a level which once again makes mere pawns of the former holy maidens.

Even then, the final blow might not even have been known to the warring parties and is only partially shown to the audience. It is formed by Waporif dismantling one of the simoun to see what they actually are: are they mechanical of divine? The answer is never truly shown – and rightly so -, apparently being different for the devout and the skeptic, but both answers would give equal reason for the reaction of shock, as whatever it may be, the mystery is gone and faith, either in Science or in God, is lost.
Loss of faith is a relatively common occurrence in anime, but it is mainly used as a result of having either church or the divine appear as less than perfectly righteous, or of having the divine proven to be non-existent, and is often used as a rather cheap tool to prove the heroes to have the moral upper hand. Not so in the case of Simoun, which not only has the good graces to keep all possibilities open, but which also shows this theme as a powerful one in itself, aimed at the viewer: in another nod to political reality, the discovery, whatever it may have been, completely lacks any impact whatsoever on the manner in which the simoun forces are presented and used.

Simoun's characters, while prominent and most likely considered by many the makers or breakers of this series - especially seeing how all the earlier episodes more or less only follow their antics - in the end play second fiddle to the question of the simoun themselves and they are, consequently, toyed with to quite an extent.
Yet, it is thereby that many of the characters come into their own. Most of the main characters are essentially archetypes up to the point of stereotypes: Aer is the action hero, Rimone the requisite young genius, (the so very lovely) Paraietta the senior-in-the-all-girl's-highschool-that-always-has-to-play-the-male-roles-in-theatre-plays, etc. Kaim and Alti in particular seem to be included for no other reason than to add some implied eroticism, and should really have best been left out altogether. Though Neviril is a bit more interesting, as she seems to be intended to be an annoyance only to later actually show why she is looked up to, she is still rather bland. It is by seeing their actions fail, by them being forced to come to grips with a situation where they've become disposable military assets, and therefore by their character types conflicting with how the story evolves, that the characters (or at least some of them) gain substance. This is particularly true for Dominura, who is more or less stripped of her influence, Yun, who more or less develops an actual personality, and even Floe.
That said, individually most of the characters don't stand up to scrutiny. Taken together, though, they offer many insights into the workings of the setting and the simoun, and are often used to highlight the differences in views on the crafts and their holy duty.

Visually, the show falls squarely in the 'competent' range. Animation is fine, with a lot of attention being given to the aerial scenes. The design of the simoun and most of the more important places of the show - in particular the Spring - wouldn't be out of place in any professionally done JRPG, so the world often looks beautiful, if a bit on the empty side. Character design is a mixed bag. While the style is very consistent and the doll-like look of many of the sibyllae, while appearing a bit weird at the first glance, serve to enhance the fact that they are maidens who have not yet gone to the Spring and are, therefore, not wholly women, Simoun suffers from using far too many colours and frills intended to cute the characters up. Of course, a contrast between this design and the later darker outlook of the series may very well have been intended as a means of bringing home a sense of dissonance, yet this same sense can make it difficult to take anything seriously.
The visuals are accompanied, however, by a marvelous soundtrack. Barring the standard orchestral scores and the remarkably catchy accordion ballroom track, much of the music consists of heavy and hollow krautrock ('space music', even), often very successfully employed to highlight the otherworldliness of the simoun and many locations.

Simoun more or less came out of the blue and must have made many people shy away from it because of the initial attention paid to little girls in an implied lesbian relationship, which reaction, given the cute-'em-up design of the characters is readily understandable; yet if many others came first to enjoy the show expressly because of this, the shift in attention later on and especially the continuous attention to the depiction of the role of the divine in the society presented makes it into a rather original show, and certainly one of the more 'deep' ones of the past few years, yet without the need to show off or to throw in a lot of concepts only to do nothing with them. As such, it was a real surprise to me and turned out to be one of the more satisfying experiences of 2006. A definite 'Yes'.
You do not beg the sun for mercy.
Mar 26, 2010 8:57 PM
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After reading the above statements I can add little. But I will say this series is one that I can view over and over again and still find new turns to the story. So I will say Yes.
Mar 27, 2010 6:36 AM
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I am rejecting watching this series due to lesbianhood. I guess it was not an intelligent market option. I kind of want to check out since you guys say so many nice things about it...

But I follow some principles....
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori
Mar 27, 2010 6:43 AM
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ladyxzeus said:
I am rejecting watching this series due to lesbianhood. I guess it was not an intelligent market option. I kind of want to check out since you guys say so many nice things about it...

But I follow some principles....


I dropped it after the first episode on the same grounds.
Shoujo-Ai really doesn't float my boat.
Mar 27, 2010 3:42 PM
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Yet you nominate yaoi (or shounen-ai; I'm not sure), ladyxzeus. If people can't get past that element of Simoun, I should be happy it won't get many more nos because of that. I know you'll be happy when your nomination also avoids so many utterly desired nos. ;p

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Mar 27, 2010 4:00 PM
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Yeah, like when Rah was shot down by the Evangelion fanboys whom hate Rah because they consider it to be a clone of EVA.

That was fun.
Mar 27, 2010 7:44 PM

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AfterGlow said:
Yeah, like when Rah was shot down by the Evangelion fanboys whom hate Rah because they consider it to be a clone of EVA.

That was fun.

I am sorry, I shot it down for completely different reasons that were not related to NGE at all, which I explained in the spotlight. I THINK.

It was not a case of "girls are kissing in there".

And I know I should watch this because the same thing will happen when BL that I nominate eventually gets spotlighted. But I must convince myself that I can watch a genre that creeps me to a whole new dimension just for the sake of knowing about it.
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori
Mar 27, 2010 8:14 PM

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ladyxzeus said:
AfterGlow said:
Yeah, like when Rah was shot down by the Evangelion fanboys whom hate Rah because they consider it to be a clone of EVA.

That was fun.

I am sorry, I shot it down for completely different reasons that were not related to NGE at all, which I explained in the spotlight. I THINK.

It was not a case of "girls are kissing in there".

And I know I should watch this because the same thing will happen when BL that I nominate eventually gets spotlighted. But I must convince myself that I can watch a genre that creeps me to a whole new dimension just for the sake of knowing about it.


I know you didn't vote against it based on NGE fanboyism, but I know more than one who did.
Mar 29, 2010 4:17 PM

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Daisuki-chan said:
Yet you nominate yaoi (or shounen-ai; I'm not sure), ladyxzeus. If people can't get past that element of Simoun, I should be happy it won't get many more nos because of that. I know you'll be happy when your nomination also avoids so many utterly desired nos. ;p
Yet you seem to think that having fanservice is a completely valid reason to vote against something (your comments in the TSR thread). Well I'm one episode in and I've just gotta say there's a good amount of fanservice (although this doesn't actually bother me... actually it does though) and this is TOTALLY a completely valid reason not to vote for something right? If you're looking for a TOTALLY COMPLETELY VALID REASON to consider voting no on this then look no further.

One legitimate thing I'm not really thrilled with is that although male characters seem to exist, not a single male voice actor was used. It wouldn't be such a problem but the 5 or so voice actresses they used are already being forced to vary their voices quite drastically to fill a large range of characters. The result is an unconvincing effort to differentiate 'male' from 'female' when the scene shifts to another character of different gender and age using a voice indistinguishable from the last. To be honest the voice acting in general is quite unconvincing.
Mar 29, 2010 6:41 PM

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Anything is a valid reason. If the fanservice isn't made up for by all the other elements then you can "validly" vote no.

Well, all their men are effectively female to male transsexuals. They're not identical to XY males in our world. Their voices not changing enough to warrant using XY seiyuu is just how their biology works in their world. If the creators put less thought into this they would've just had Simoun's males all be identical to human males, with the only difference for Simounians being delayed (but otherwise identical) sexual characteristics.

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Mar 29, 2010 10:33 PM

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Although I haven't gone far enough into the show to know for sure, the events of the spring scene in episode 2 suggest that significant change to voice should occur. It also seems to be the case that their opponents are injected with hormones from birth to be converted into men, which means that although they're not truly "men" they should and do display manly characteristics (which should but doesn't extend to voice). Considering there appears to be an attempt from the seiyuu to vary their voices for male characters my assumption seems to be at least mildly validated. Finally since the voice acting in general is rather weak, the reasonable conclusion to make is that male voices weren't done poorly for artistic reasons but rather are just done poorly.

At about episode 8 the series seems to be improving.
bbobjsMar 30, 2010 2:03 AM
Mar 30, 2010 3:33 AM

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Daisuki-chan said:
Yet you nominate yaoi (or shounen-ai; I'm not sure), ladyxzeus. If people can't get past that element of Simoun, I should be happy it won't get many more nos because of that. I know you'll be happy when your nomination also avoids so many utterly desired nos. ;p

BoysLove, BoysLove. In fact, my objective in nominating one or two BL pieces is that people look at it with "eyes that see", unlike the average fan that just squeaks. In fact I find the sensual parts of the two works I nominated to be essential and integrant to the overall quality ie. if they did not exist the work could not be that good.

So when faced with Simoun's synopsis I think "was it really needed to make them all female"? And then I looked at the picture and tought "was it really needed to make them all female and shiny?" Maybe it was. In fact hopefully it was. But at the moment of truth (that time of the week I change my anime order and schedule to include stuff for clubs) I considered that maybe I preferred to watch other things instead. If it was shorter maybe I would have give it a try in time for the voting.

In fact, I may give it a try later. Just to prove to myself that I can watch shoujo-ai.
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori
Mar 30, 2010 7:00 AM

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@bbobjs:
If I recall correctly, the idea was that the change is a rather slow one. This is why, for instance, Waporif and Flof still sound very female, whereas with Anubituf this has progressed a bit more, though not significantly. In fact, I remember that only a random 'old man in train' ever really sounded like a man (he also was one of the very few characters with facial hair). Whether the voice acting is done poorly is debatable - and seeing as how I have no way whatsoever to distinguish good from bad voice acting I'll remain shy of debating this -, but having women play men's roles certainly was done for artistic reasons alone.
You do not beg the sun for mercy.
Mar 30, 2010 9:31 AM

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@ Ladyxzeus: So far the shoujo-ai element has been very much an undertone that I've largely ignored. In the context of the show being "female" is essentially equivalent to being genderless (of course making them actually genderless so far seems like it would have been a better choice, but I'll reserve judgement on that until I'm done).
Mar 30, 2010 1:49 PM

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bbobjs, none of the characters in Simoun are actually humans. Humans don't get to choose their natural sex. They just happen to look similar to [anime] humans so enough people would watch it. Every series where "humans" have special powers or superhuman abilities that come from their bodies or minds and not technology technically is doing the same thing.

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Apr 1, 2010 7:11 AM

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Alright so I've finished the series and the general impression I'm left with is that someone had a wealth of good ideas that they packaged into a coherent format and somehow managed to successfully pitch. Once the project was green lit some guy from marketing (or maybe a team) came to look it over and ensure that it's risk to the company was minimal. Marketing then proceeded to shit all over everything until any aspect that could be considered good was muddled under a big brown mess. Fortunately something was able to shine through and make this series decent.

Main Characters:
Morinas: Did she even talk to more than two of the other pilots? Worthless.
Alti: Indirectly assists in Paraietta's development, otherwise worthless.
Kaim: Only exists to enhance Alti's worth.
Paraietta: The only character with a legitimate romantic dilemma.
Mamina: Actually an OK character. Becomes a pilot because she craves status, interacts with most of the cast, displays change.
Aaeru: Learns that "love" exists, otherwise spends time not failing at things.
Floe: Helps Aaeru "develop," helps give insight into social status and is actually almost an interesting character for one episode when they "reclaim" that town.
Neviril: Is an object, not a character.
Roatreamon: Serves to develop Mamina, otherwise worthless.
Yun: Walking contradiction? At least she's aware of it.
Rimone: There to remind most of the other characters of how worthless they are, co-founded their religion?
Dominura: Has a clear goal, redevelops faith, causes many events, co-founded their religion?

Alright so most of the characters suck, I think this is basically accepted. It can somewhat be forgiven because the characters are just a tool to explore the world but the show still wastes allot of time on not developing these characters well.

Animation:
I've seen worse, but this is fairly weak for 2006. The characters lack detail both statically and dynamically. There was one scene in particular that comes to mind where Paraietta is walking away from a close angle, represented by exactly two frames of animation and a pan.

The CG was good and it was nice to see consistent Ri Majon patterns.

The sketch style still shots were a mixed bag. The times they were used to stress a darker moment in were very effective but in later episodes when they were cut in to enhance reaction shots they often seemed out of place as they were often added in the middle of a pan which caused a distracting choppy effect.

Music/Sound:
I loved the use of music in this series. I can't quite describe it but there's a certain quality to it that greatly enhanced the experience.

I still view the voice acting choice as poor quality rather than artistic choice. I can understand it for some of the male characters but ones that have clearly fully developed should really sound more male than the bulk of the female cast if the show is going to cite voice change as part of the process.

Pacing:
The show jumped scenes allot, often to display some largely unrelated event I suppose just to remind you that other things are happening? The result was that often events didn't resolve which ended up causing allot of unnecessary flashbacks. Maybe there was a greater reason for doing this that I'm completely missing (akin to Baccano) but it seems unlikely.

Plot:
If I had to use one word, vague and unfortunately so. I can see how being vague is some regards can be considered a benefit but it was to the point where I'm basically forced to guess rather than infer. Allot of gray area is left for the viewer to fill in but I'm not completely sure how much of it was intentional. For one I find it somewhat suspicious that the further in the series something is introduced the more likely it was to be left vague. It was really annoying that basic facts about the world aren't explored in depth. For example Argentum (I think it was them anyway) is glossed over in one of the earlier episodes and never examined again.

Overall:
I see something that tried to do interesting and unique things but overall lacks polish. It deserves to be considered well above average for being unique and competent but that's about it. Shoujo Ai and Romance elements of the show were fairly poorly done but if I consider that they exist out of necessity then I suppose it can be overlooked. I know we've rejected better anime than this but I suppose that shouldn't be a consideration. The exemplary elements seem to be a mixed bag of slightly more good than bad but I'm not sure most people would even see the good unless they actively looked for it and further more I'm not sure how much bad people should be expected to ignore.

Since I can't think of a better way to express it, I'll do it in terms of a book I read and hope anyone who read it understands what I mean. It is Frankenstein. The quality has an unfavorable duality to it that keeps it from being great but allows you to see what it could have been with some polish. I think I'll either vote no now and abstain if there's a revote or I'll abstain and vote no on the revote. Kinda looking for a push into hard abstain though.
Apr 1, 2010 10:49 AM

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Mamina was my favorite Simoun character by far.

It's unfortunate that Simoun wasn't polished enough for you. Hopefully it was decent enough for you to abstain on, though.

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Apr 2, 2010 7:15 AM

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@bbobjs:
As I see it, the major themes touched but not expanded upon have ought to remain vague, as giving an answer there would effectively destroy the intended impact. If you disagree, or at least if you would say that these aren't enough to warrant an induction, then, unless you have developed some emotional attachment to it, Simoun is lacking and spends too much time introducing new elements left and right without resolving all that much or even giving a reason for their introduction. Though I hope that this show makes it, to be honest I believe that you should vote 'No' in that case.
You do not beg the sun for mercy.
Apr 2, 2010 1:40 PM

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It was really just "meh" to me so I'll just go with a no.
Apr 4, 2010 7:50 PM

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I didn't care for it. Took me 4 months to watch it. I felt that the drama was over the top too much. It felt as if they were trying hard to find more story points to add more drama. too much cowbell.
Dec 30, 2011 3:00 PM

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So far as of episode 15 I can't help but agree with bbobjs about the voice acting being a distraction. I understand the artistic approach argument also, and the entirely feminine universe does give the show a unique feel. But for lack of a better word, the "Butch" transformation of females into males does make the series have a serious yuri feel. I suppose the fact that there are disorders like klinefelter's syndrome out there that involve hormone and sexual organ confusion within a persons sexing does make some aspects of this series very interesting. Having a decent understanding of sexual biology would make this series a little easier to swallow, but I don't think it is absolutely necessary. Regurgitating the fact that all humans are basically female at birth and don't begin to develop sexual differences until puberty is another aspect this show uses as it's most interesting theme. On another note, the fan-service wasn't too over the top until the past few episodes. Particularly episode 14. The melodrama also does seem to be over the top at moments, and I'm not sure yet if I'm completely enthralled with Yuri older women little girl pedophilia development either. I'm gonna try to finish the series tonight. The series does have some merit, I haven't had the time to go back and read Tjan's response yet but I promise I will after work. I'm sure he has some great supporting ideas. I'm still very much so on the fence at this point leaning towards a no vote though.

Afterthoughts upon finishing the series

santetjan said:
@bbobjs: As I see it, the major themes touched but not expanded upon have ought to remain vague, as giving an answer there would effectively destroy the intended impact. If you disagree, or at least if you would say that these aren't enough to warrant an induction, then, unless you have developed some emotional attachment to it, Simoun is lacking and spends too much time introducing new elements left and right without resolving all that much or even giving a reason for their introduction. Though I hope that this show makes it, to be honest I believe that you should vote 'No' in that case.


After completing the series and finishing reading this forum I can't help but feel like this statement also speaks to me. While the show had some strong episodes, it was also plagued with, yes, filler and fan-service moments that mostly involved continually underdeveloped emotional conflict and or any of the political, scientific, religious, gender themes. I also can't help but criticize the genre smashing here. Not for attempted to blend, Yuri, moe, sci-fi, etchi, (BL?) amongst other gender confusions, but that it was largely unsuccessful at resolving any of it's major themes. It appears that this is an aspect that can be appealing for some, but for me it just made the series end completely anticlimactic and unsatisfactory. The uniqueness of it's all female world quickly faded, although there were some very interesting episodes that almost gave me hope that the series could be induction worthy. Episodes 16-20 seemed like they were going to lead to some much awaited answers to the many mysteries the series continued to introduce, but quickly digressed back towards ambiguity. I suppose Tjan could be correct in saying that if many of these mysteries were divulged the show would have lost all of it's intrigue. However, I think that's basically a cop out. The creators not being able to conclude the themes they began in an interesting way is simply as already stated anticlimactically boring. They couldn't figure out an interesting way to answer many of the burning questions they continually posed effectively. Their attempts were very lackluster. Technology created by an ancient technologically advanced society, wow really how creative. The answer just left more questions. Pretty much everyone involved was underdeveloped accept for the interpersonal shallow relationships of little girls who like to draw pictures in the sky and don't want to decide if they want to be male or female. The characters individually were basically all static, yes, Clichés. As a collective they did form some cohesion and that is probably Tjan's strongest point for induction that I can see. But this cohesion is completely undermined by their individual personalities that really didn't leave me caring in the end. It had it's moments, admittedly Mamiina's self-sacrifice was touching, but Neviril never lived up to that sacrifice so... Aaeru as a main character was completely static, her final epiphany about loving Neviril came off as completely disingenuous and Neviril confession was equally uneventful. Lets fly off into the sunset and travel into the future?Past? who cares right? I'm supposed to and the writers failed to elicit any sympathy from me in this regard. Almost every aspect of this show was anticlimactic, which in itself should be an achievement or lesson to future animators about how a story shouldn't be written.

Enough has already been said about the animation and art by tjan of which I'm in full agreement that it was good. Character designs are as I already mentioned completely cliché, some moe, others etchi... The soundtrack was interesting at first but eventually became as old as the waiting for the characters and story to develop. The flow of the series was actually pretty good, other than the few filler episodes involving the moments that should have been used for meaningful character development instead of mindless melodrama. So far I've been focusing heavily on the negative aspects of this series, while there were a few more positives already mentioned. Some of the political, social and religious posturing was interesting. But the ending pretty much destroys those too. In this case my initial impression unfortunately turned out to be my final one. No
Orion1Jan 2, 2012 3:29 PM
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