| http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/index.html CNN said: The video shows a man lying in the street, holding his hands in the air. "All he has is a toy truck," the man shouts. "I am a behavior therapist at a group home." Charles Kinsey said the video, released by his attorney, shows the moment Monday when he tried to convince North Miami police not to harm his patient, a 23-year-old with autism who was sitting on the ground beside him. "I was more worried about him than myself," Kinsey told CNN affiliate WSVN-TV in Miami. "As long as I've got my hands up, they're not gonna shoot me, that's what I'm thinking," Kinsey said. "Wow, was I wrong." Now Kinsey is hospitalized with a gunshot wound. North Miami police said an officer opened fire after attempting to negotiate. Kinsey and his attorney said that explanation doesn't add up. State authorities say they're investigating. North Miami police said in a statement that they are investigating this week's shooting, asking potential witnesses to come forward with any photos or video they may have. The officers who arrived "attempted to negotiate with the two men on the scene." At some point, one of the officers discharged his weapon, authorities said. That officer has been placed on administrative leave, as is the standard procedure. Kinsey said he was surprised, like when a mosquito bites unexpectedly. "When he hit me, I'm like, I still got my hands in the air," he said. "I'm like, 'Sir, why did you shoot me?' " Kinsey said he asked the officer. "He said to me, 'I don't know.' " The Miami-Dade state attorney's office is assisting with the investigation, police said. It's fucked that this incident is barely going to do anything to the police force and when or if that man sues it will only affect the tax payers. Even if Ofc.Idontknow goes to jail it's just a grunt while the police get to save some face. |
CommieSalamiJul 21, 2016 12:28 PM
| Eat Me |
| "I don't know" I don't fucking know? Well, time to get the bleach, a noose, oil and a lighter because what I just saw and read gave me aids. And stuff similar to this will continue to happen. Terrible. |
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| We expect these guys to protect us from the worst people of the bunch and they fucking shoot an unarmed man with his hands in the air, way to go. |
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| I think it's time to reconsider giving every officer a gun. They should be resorting to non-lethal means, like in the UK. |
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| With the Alton Sterling case, you could say that he was resisting arrest, and reaching for his gun. With the Philando Castile case, he, supposedly, had his gun sitting out on his lap, and may not have cooperated with police orders. With this case, the police shot an unarmed therapist who was helping an autistic patient... I think that we can all agree that this is fucked up, right? This tweet was pretty funny.  |
| I think society should help officers that try to bring down the "blue wall", giving them more resources. Unrelated to this, in Oregon officers exposed their chief for having a racist biased. In their profession, they should focus on all criminals. Even though I'm sure there is a larger percentage of officers that dutifully do their jobs, the small percent that go against their oaths are bringing the whole down. OP: It felt like mosquitoes bites? Shock is a helluva drug. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Narmy said: No, it could be fatal if the Police can't neutralize a potential Threat immediately. What should be done instead is to improve the Police Training and require regular psychological Attests for every Person with a Gun (should also be a general Requirement) and to get stricter disciplinary Measures.I think it's time to reconsider giving every officer a gun. They should be resorting to non-lethal means, like in the UK. |
| Please don't make this about race, please don't make this about race, please don't mak-- Until all of the facts are out, no one has the right to spin a narrative on this story. |
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Noboru said: Narmy said: No, it could be fatal if the Police can't neutralize a potential Threat immediately. What should be done instead is to improve the Police Training and require regular psychological Attests for every Person with a Gun (should also be a general Requirement) and to get stricter disciplinary Measures.I think it's time to reconsider giving every officer a gun. They should be resorting to non-lethal means, like in the UK. And who's going to pay the bill? There are better (and more cost efficient) solutions than putting cops everywhere, but that would require the will to actually fight criminality. |
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| Dang I'm glad the guy survived. I think the main issue is police training. Cops are taught to always be on guard and see every individual they meet as a threat. Assertive policing is emphasized in training over de-escalation tactics. I believe in police reform but bad policing isn't the only thing to blame for the recent anti-cop sentiment, which has ultimately fostered the environment for a police state. I fear that is where we're headed instead of real police reform. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/ |
| Signature is too edgy for me. |
Clebardman said: The Institutions that are in Charge with paying the Costs aka the Government. And who's going to pay the bill? There are better (and more cost efficient) solutions than putting cops everywhere, but that would require the will to actually fight criminality. I didn't say you have to put Cops everywhere, only to train them better, have stricter Regulations and to punish them more severely for any critical Wrongdoings. What Solutions do you have in Mind? |
| @Noboru Governments don't make money, they collect taxes and reinvest them. I'm pretty sure a tax increase wouldn't be a popular measure. No amount of money is going to solve a problem if you're taking it backwards. The whole point of repression is to punish AFTER the crime happened; You could invest all your budget on repression repression and it still wouldn't have any effect on the amount of criminality. The solutions really depend on the country and the type of criminality, but let's be honest for a moment: most types of criminality can be linked to poverty, poverty can be linked to unemployment, unemployment is an extremely useful tool for the people and industries ruling the world. I might add that fear mongering around insecurity is a big factor during elections, and having a home market when your economy is geared toward crafting and selling weapons is always a good idea... |
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sleeplesstown said: And let's not forget he was only a criminal that intimidated other people with his large build!*Conservative voice* He smoked one marijuana 37 years ago, he's clearly a dangerous thug that should be put down He got a C on his report card He drove 5 miles over the speed limit once in 1997 |
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| @Clebardman: You've asked me about who is going to pay the Bill, not where the Money ultimately comes from (and Taxpayers is not the whole Truth). I've never said anything about Repression, but about Control. Also, while it wouldn't be a popular Measure, Tax Increases are one of the safer Methods to gain more Money for the State/Country, at least for Countries like Germany. The Concept is rather vast. What would you suggest concretely for the USA to prevent Things like these from happening? Doing a Coup against the ones profiting from People being unemployed and additionally restricting Weapon Deals? |
NoboruJul 21, 2016 2:04 PM
Clebardman said: The solutions really depend on the country and the type of criminality, but let's be honest for a moment: most types of criminality can be linked to poverty, poverty can be linked to unemployment, unemployment is an extremely useful tool for the people and industries ruling the world. I might add that fear mongering around insecurity is a big factor during elections, and having a home market when your economy is geared toward crafting and selling weapons is always a good idea... I don't think poverty rate is the end all solution; The poverty rate in the US has been stagnant since the 70s, and has arguably even increased. Despite this fact crime in general has sharply decreased after police reform in the 90s. One of the best example is New York, which was practically ruled by the mafia until they were cleaned out in the 90s. And I don't know what you think is the best solution for poverty, but the mentality of "poverty causes crime" is what allowed crime to peak in the 80s and this had to be corrected. The welfare state that was suppose to curb crime and poverty in the US actually had the opposite effect. These are failed policies that are continued to this day, and pumping more money into the welfare state won't help anyone. |
| Signature is too edgy for me. |
| @Noboru I can't tell much about the US, tho it seems to be the same problem that we have here in France. We let whole cities fester without moving an inch. Here in France what used to bed red (communist) towns are now ethnic ghettos, for a bunch of reasons. I'm not going to do the long version but basically Immigrants and sons of immigrants are poor -> they gather in towns that accept poor people -> they deal drugs because that's the only way to survive when you're part of the 10+% necessary collateral damage of our economic system. Pretending to fight that kind of criminality is hilariously pointless since it's a direct result of the way our world works. It's not as if the world was going downhill. There's a shitload of money, we're even killing the planet to grab it faster. It's just that this money doesn't go into my pocket, or yours, or the pocket of anyone working to grow it/extract it/manufacture it with his own hands. |
DeathkoJul 21, 2016 2:25 PM
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Kmolson said: And I don't know what you think is the best solution for poverty, but the mentality of "poverty causes crime" is what allowed crime to peak in the 80s and this had to be corrected. The welfare state that was suppose to curb crime and poverty in the US actually had the opposite effect. These are failed policies that are continued to this day, and pumping more money into the welfare state won't help anyone. It's not exactly about having money but more about having a place in society. Our countries basically tell kids "well, 1/10 of you girls and boys, are already screwed. You're going to be treated like parasytes until the rest of your life". What kind of person would be stupid enough to care about the rules of a society that sacrifices him and forbids him to survive by his own means? (because yeah, here in France you can't even grab 10 planks and build a shack in the middle of a forest, it's forbidden. Gotta sleep on that pavement or hang yourself) |
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Narmy said: I think it's time to reconsider giving every officer a gun. They should be resorting to non-lethal means, like in the UK. i pray that's whats gonna happen. in the end, they won't be satisfied until a civil war ensues. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| @Clebardman: I didn't ask about the Cause; I would like to read concrete Solutions. Just say so if you don't have a Plan - I don't have one either, but even if there were one, it wouldn't help against Panic Reactions or through potentially racist motivated Shortcomings of the respective Police. btw.: How many innocent People died through Police Fire in France? |
Noboru said: @Clebardman: I didn't ask about the Cause; I would like to read concrete Solutions. Just say so if you don't have a Plan - I don't have one either, but even if there were one, it wouldn't help against Panic Reactions or through potentially racist motivated Shortcomings of the respective Police. btw.: How many innocent People died through Police Fire in France? Whut? the solution is very simple but unlikely to happen. It's to share efficiently workload and ressources instead of being stupid cunts. I have no idea how many innocents died from police fire in France. I don't want to say 0 because there's always the odd case here and there, but we're not stupid brave enough to let our cops handle guns 24/7. I have a feeling that you're trying to drag me into a debate around firearms here. I don't care about firearms to be honest. There are many ways to kill a lot of people and firearms aren't the most effective. |
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Clebardman said: It's not exactly about having money but more about having a place in society. Our countries basically tell kids "well, 1/10 of you girls and boys, are already screwed. You're going to be treated like parasytes until the rest of your life". What kind of person would be stupid enough to care about the rules of a society that sacrifices him and forbids him to survive by his own means? (because yeah, here in France you can't even grab 10 planks and build a shack in the middle of a forest, it's forbidden. Gotta sleep on that pavement or hang yourself) The reason you can't live by you're own means is because everything regulated. I mean honestly building a shack in the middle of a forest is pretty unambitious, but the same logic can be applied to business. Small business is crushed by over-regulation. Only mega-corporations can foot the bill for regulation policy, so therefore take out competition without providing a better service. On top of that only mega-corporations can afford to bribe the Senate (in the US) for tax breaks; that's another way they take out small business. I mean most regulation policies are actually written by mega-corporations in order to take out the small guys. Of course business-regulation is sold to the population as "Eco-friendly" so everyone eats it up, meanwhile killing the economy. Over-regulation strangles the economy, corporate tax only effects small business, and the welfare state doesn't raise anyone out of poverty, instead creating a dependent class that will allows vote pro-government. Deregulate everything, abolish the welfare state; These are actual solutions to decreasing poverty. Did I mention the poverty rate was going down in the US until welfare reform was implemented in the 60s. After that poverty plateaued and has only increased since then. Not that I know much about France, but I know most western countries nowadays have massive government regulation and welfare state. |
| Signature is too edgy for me. |
| @Kmolson It's 1:00 am, I'm stoned, not an expert on the matter and I lack the proper terminology to discuss this in depth since English isn't my native language, but I have a feeling we're on the same wavelength here. Basically, you're saying "less taxes evens out the odds between small and big industries?" I kinda agree. There's no need for welfare if you have a job that pays decently anyway. Taxing the bigs more would just make'em leave the boat anyway. The problem I see with less regulations is ecological more than economical. it's also pretty easy to imagine that big companies would be quite unhappy to let go their priviledges. The whole system works in their favor mostly because they shaped iit, I can't see them letting money flee their pockets. |
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| @Clebardman Not that pollution isn't a problem, but environmentalism is anti-human in nature. A good example is the oil industry; Despite this resource raising the standard of living for hundreds of millions of people globally, western countries have heavily regulated this industry. There is actually billions of barrels worth of potential oil in US territory, but regulation makes it much more expensive to extract this resource than in countries such as Saudi Arabia. The environmental lobby is opposed to US interests and blocks projects like the Keystone Pipeline, even though current transportation methods are more dangerous and actually kill people. This is why we're seeing a massive redistribution of resources from western countries to the Middle East; because it is cheaper to extract oil from the Middle East partly due to lax regulation. Oil industry in the US simply can't compete. The US did develop the extraction method of fracking to reach oil that wasn't previously available, but recently OPEC flooded the market with cheap oil and put most of these drills out of business [OPEC is basically an oil cartel with the purpose of keeping oil prices as high as possible for as long as possible, any country that strikes oil is invited in]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC Ultimately mega-corporations love regulation because it doesn't affect them domestically. It just kills off their competitors. The problem with this system in the long run is domestic business will eventually fall behind international competitors. That is one reason why all the steady well paying industrial jobs in the US have "moved" to China and other countries with less regulation. Businesses leave the US because it is simply cheaper to operate abroad. It's not necessarily out of greed, these businesses are just trying to survive. Regulation and taxes kill the economy. |
| Signature is too edgy for me. |
| laying on the ground on his stomach, holding a toy truck, suicidal. let's shoot him. Ratohnhaketon said: And let's not forget he was only a criminal that intimidated other people with his large build! okay, nothing whatsoever to do with this situation. e: sleeplesstown said: *Conservative voice* He smoked one marijuana 37 years ago, he's clearly a dangerous thug that should be put down He got a C on his report card He drove 5 miles over the speed limit once in 1997 "okay, nothing whatsoever to do with this situation." |
ashfrliebertJul 21, 2016 8:21 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
ashfrliebert said: Neither was the nonsense the guy I quoted said, but you sure tuned that out nicely.laying on the ground on his stomach, holding a toy truck, suicidal. let's shoot him. Ratohnhaketon said: And let's not forget he was only a criminal that intimidated other people with his large build! okay, nothing whatsoever to do with this situation. |
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Clebardman said: This is not directed at @Clebardman, but @Kmolson. The social programs enacted were never meant to curb crime. That mentality wasn't even fully correlated during the time most of those programs were enacted (1960's, Great Society). And the cleanup of the 90's have no bearing to NYPDs then/now after they were found to target only certain groups (Stop and Frisk being the most popular example) with their internal policies. Basically rid of one gang and put in another. Not to mention there are still PDs that were investigated from the 90s, currently under federal control still (California). There is no arguing if poverty has risen from the 70's as the economy of the US was under, at that time unheard of, stagflation due to in-part, America's lapse in it's different manufacturing sectors (Steel). The poverty level is higher when adjusted. And during the 80's crime peaked because the actual failed policy "war-on-drugs-", and the introduction of crack--a cheap alternative to the more expensive powder form of cocaine. As it stands, violent crime (incl. murder) in the USA has been going down the past few (since 70's, lower in 60's) decades according to the 2014 (most recent) FBI report from local law agencies (voluntarily, though the rates of crime have increased). So whether those social programs are helping or not is unknown but because there is a correlation, there is some form of relationship to the two. I don't feel like doing the oil part--I had too much too drink and its my day off.Kmolson said: The welfare state that was suppose to curb crime and poverty in the US actually had the opposite effect. These are failed policies that are continued to this day, and pumping more money into the welfare state won't help anyone. Your end message might be similar to mine, but the stuff you said to make it, is not. |
SilverstormJul 21, 2016 9:03 PM
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Ratohnhaketon said: Lol, to both your response, and I think MAL may be fucking with us again :Pashfrliebert said: Neither was the nonsense the guy I quoted said, but you sure tuned that out nicely.laying on the ground on his stomach, holding a toy truck, suicidal. let's shoot him. okay, nothing whatsoever to do with this situation. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Silverstorm said: I'll admit it wasn't the best way, but the point I wanted to make is that we simply do not know all of the facts or the big picture. It's a terrible mistake to put this out on national television like this because it just feeds into the systemic racism narrative. Right now it's not looking like there's much to clarify but so help me if I have to wake up to another story of more police dead for this tomorrow.Ratohnhaketon said: Lol, to both your response, and I think MAL may be fucking with us again :PNeither was the nonsense the guy I quoted said, but you sure tuned that out nicely. |
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| I don't like the dependency on firearms. |
| So the trained swat member, whose original answer was "I don't know", meant to shoot the autistic man with a toy car, the autistic man he was informed was harmless, but 50 yards away aimed at the guy he was trying to protect. O-KAY. Talk about incompetence |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
Clebardman said: So more State Interventions that go more into the Direction of Socialism, right?Whut? the solution is very simple but unlikely to happen. It's to share efficiently workload and ressources instead of being stupid cunts. I have no idea how many innocents died from police fire in France. I don't want to say 0 because there's always the odd case here and there, but we're not stupid brave enough to let our cops handle guns 24/7. I have a feeling that you're trying to drag me into a debate around firearms here. I don't care about firearms to be honest. There are many ways to kill a lot of people and firearms aren't the most effective. Not that we would have had 0 innocent Kills, either. I don't want to say that there is no Chance that even in the recent Years (including this one with the very few major Lonewolf Train Attacks) there wouldn't be an innocent Person not being shot, but the Ratio should be similar. Hadn't intended to go that much into Detail, so I just say that strict Gun and Weapon Control works, because it makes it harder for normal Persons to get them and to openly abuse them. Also, if we hadn't had Gun Control, the young Afghan and others could have killed more People. It gives more of a Sense of Security if you know that normally only Police can have Guns to use in Emergency Cases, so they don't have to be that on Edge compared to the American Police who has to assume that someone has a Gun whenever they see someone suspicious or are called to an Operation. ashfrliebert said: Wait, he was a trained SWAT Member? That sounds even more embarrassing for the Police Training and Control, then.So the trained swat member, whose original answer was "I don't know", meant to shoot the autistic man with a toy car, the autistic man he was informed was harmless, but 50 yards away aimed at the guy he was trying to protect. O-KAY. |
Noboru said: Wait, he was a trained SWAT Member? That sounds even more embarrassing for the Police Training and Control, then. http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/07/21/pba-officers-shot-went-astray-in-attempt-to-protect-black-caregiver/ "The PBA maintains that the officer involved, a decorated member of the SWAT team, did not hear what Kinsey was saying. They said the officer thought that the autistic man Kinsey was trying to get out of the street was attempting to harm Kinsey." |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
ashfrliebert said: Sounds like a convenient Excuse to me, although I'd have to give the SWAT Member the Benefits of Doubt since I have no Proof of it.Noboru said: Wait, he was a trained SWAT Member? That sounds even more embarrassing for the Police Training and Control, then. http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/07/21/pba-officers-shot-went-astray-in-attempt-to-protect-black-caregiver/ "The PBA maintains that the officer involved, a decorated member of the SWAT team, did not hear what Kinsey was saying. They said the officer thought that the autistic man Kinsey was trying to get out of the street was attempting to harm Kinsey." |
| I truly believe anti-police shootings are now a necessity im the US. It sent a strong message in Baton Rouge. The sooner this reaches a boiling point the better. |
| End Zionazism |
| These officers need to start paying a fine when they do stupid shit like this |
Mikasa said: I truly believe anti-police shootings are now a necessity im the US. It sent a strong message in Baton Rouge. The sooner this reaches a boiling point the better. This too, it's a shame people have to lose their lives before we see some real change |
Helitenks said: These officers need to start paying a fine when they do stupid shit like this I believe since they are held on a higher standard then normal civilians they should get punished harsher. |
| Eat Me |
leonstone said: Hey wait, freeing the nipple is a very important step toward equality!and that's what you need SJWs for, but they're too busy freeing the nipple. |
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| I'd be willing to say that most cops are on serious edge considering they're been wiped out by cop killings right now but I know a lot of american cops are seriously dumb and shouldn't handle weapons long before these incidents too. So its probably a combo of these things. |
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| The police were not aiming for the behavioral therapist actually, he was shot by mistake, the cops were going to shoot the autistic man armed with a toy truck. It is shocking that the police would target a man with special needs in the first place, what the cops should have been doing was helping the behavioral therapist with the autistic man, who was only doing his job. The police. on the other hand, failed miserably in at there job, and should be prosecuted and imprisoned, yet that will never happen of course, because , once again, the police are apparently above the law! |
Helitenks said: Mikasa said: I truly believe anti-police shootings are now a necessity im the US. It sent a strong message in Baton Rouge. The sooner this reaches a boiling point the better. This too, it's a shame people have to lose their lives before we see some real change Police shootings are not going to make things better. If anything it will further militarize the police, as we've seen in many other countries. |
| Signature is too edgy for me. |
| So he just shot him because he is black? Damn America seems like a real hellhole for black Americans. Something like this would have never happened in any Caribbean country like Barbados, Bahamas, Anitgua and Barbuda, St Kitts and Nevis. |
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| There needs to be an independent organization to police the police. As it stands this will all get washed away with no penalty to the officer. |
Noraf46 said: There needs to be an independent organization to police the police. As it stands this will all get washed away with no penalty to the officer. Ah, the privatisation of security. That sounds great man, we always need more dangerous mercenaries in the world. |
Status_Effect said: Noraf46 said: There needs to be an independent organization to police the police. As it stands this will all get washed away with no penalty to the officer. Ah, the privatisation of security. That sounds great man, we always need more dangerous mercenaries in the world. I don't recall stating anything about it being a private organization. I was thinking a different government organization that wasn't just cops looking after cops. |
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