TiaDee said: traed said: Value to me is how good, worthy and deserving someone is. That is why I say assume equal, it's just another way of saying not to judge how good or bad a person is based on generalization like gender, race, nationality, religion, economic class. Of course if you know enough you can judge but one must remember a persons actual value is more complicated than just one persons judgement and a persons true value may not be knowable. We can only try to figure out a persons value . That's a valiant (albeit idealistic) view on human lives (one which I share and try to employ in everyday life as much as possible) but the fact is that this works only on a individual level and even so, I'm willing to bet that few people share your mindset and even fewer would have the willpower to stand by their convinction when their principles are questioned. My original point was simply that there are quite a lot and very influential aspects of one's life that the individual simply has no control over and those aspects are haphazard and unfair which makes human lives unequal because we start at different levels and are presented with different opportunities. It;s actually even more complicated than I described because i was just talking about moral value but another measure of value is emotional value. Someone can be a horrible person but still have somone love and care about them which connects thel value of one person to another because if you were to harm the bad person you could hurt the good person a little too because they care about them but of course this is not as bad as causing harm to the good person. There also is hmm i will just call it karmic value, which is the outcomes of thier actions both known and unknown. Their actions concious and uncocious help or harm, create or destroy or simply change something and most actions do both in some degree. So yeah value is tricky. It's just moral value is what I care about more because it is something more within a persons own control more than anything else so I tend to focus on it. |
| Of course. God is no respecter of persons. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| Only in theory, I believe. Some common guy's life won't matter as much as President of US. |
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| That depends on how we use the word "equality". If equality means the equal chance of two random humans to become successful in life, then no, humans are not equal. All men are not born equal, because some have greater natural talent, intelligence, opportunities etc than others. If equality means moral equality, then yes, humans are morally equal. Everyone deserves the same dignity and the same respect. That doesn't mean everyone is treated equally though, because of our personal biases, and their usefulness to us. |
TiaDee said: traed said: It;s actually even more complicated than I described because i was just talking about moral value but another measure of value is emotional value. Someone can be a horrible person but still have somone love and care about them which connects thel value of one person to another because if you were to harm the bad person you could hurt the good person a little too because they care about them but of course this is not as bad as causing harm to the good person. There also is hmm i will just call it karmic value, which is the outcomes of thier actions both known and unknown. Their actions concious and uncocious help or harm, create or destroy or simply change something and most actions do both in some degree. So yeah value is tricky. It's just moral value is what I care about more because it is something more within a persons own control more than anything else so I tend to focus on it. Yeah I know, you're talking about sonder, right? Hmm, I never considered the existence of karmic value before, but sounds like a intriguing concept tbh. Though just as it is intriguing it is also unfathomable for me (and maybe that's one reason I never considered it before) because you're talking about some sort of umm, higher order that dictates (to a lesser or higher degree, depends how you choose to view it) one's fate and there's no way of telling if our morality aligns in any aspects with that order. Not to mention even among other humans there's disagreement on what should be considered moral/immoral/amoral and even those criterias change and evolve over time as well. Yeah sonder would be the right word. It's actually not really different than the normal concept of karma, its just most people mistakenly think karma is supernatural when it is actually just natural consequences of your actions and how responsible you are for what comes of things or at least that is what ive been told when i ask buddhists and hindus if im right in my interpretation. Think of it this way, you have a rock that will represent you, and you have a lake that will represent life. You throw the rock in the lake and ripples form then the rock drops out of sight and even though you have moved past your time on the surface world (life) the ripples still carry on for a while. If you throw several rocks in at once their ripples collide and either cancel eachother out or strengthen eachother depending on which way they are going. The reason the world seems so unfair is because we are not in a closed system so other things influence us that are not from our actions but from other people and objects so the system becomes so complicated it becomes more difficult to foresee all the consequences of all our actions. If you have ever heard of the butterfly effect you could liken it to that as well. This higher order you speak of which guides these things is pretty much just the normal natural order of physics, chemistry, biology, and psychology. The individual actions in themselves do not really have a value of good or bad because it is a non-dualism but out of the philisophical idealism of differing views we do have a meaning of good or bad results placed on these things as well as some objective reality beyond perception of any individual. I think of it like a single super organism with some self aware parts to it which I suppose it's like the gaia hypothesis a bit only it includes the whole cosmos. |
RedCloud said: Everyone is born equal, but some turnout to be a waste of space and some make a difference. This is the most concise way to put it. To elaborate further, the worth of someone's life is the amount of lives they have touched or how much of a difference they've brought to the society. Even if you don't major in anything, don't really have a high paying job but make people around you smile or make a difference in their lives, you're doing a good enough job of being a human being.. |
| Well of course not, there is me, and then there is everyone else. Simple Diagram: Me>>>>>>Everyone Else. |
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TiaDee said: The first thing that came to mind was a hive mind tendency though I've got a feeling you're not talking about collective consciousness. Well I think that is involved too so it's not far from that. |
-Stabbed- said: This is pretty much it. All are born equal, the same. The thing that people are confusing is that life isn't fair. Life if tough. We all have the choice of doing right or wrong, choosing the best path for us. The problem is that people today want to make governments to removal all obstacles to make life fair. The multimillionaire did not become rich by sitting on their butt, they had to work for it. They chose that path. The poor and destitute made a different choice and look where it got them.RedCloud said: Everyone is born equal, but some turnout to be a waste of space and some make a difference. This is the most concise way to put it. To elaborate further, the worth of someone's life is the amount of lives they have touched or how much of a difference they've brought to the society. Even if you don't major in anything, don't really have a high paying job but make people around you smile or make a difference in their lives, you're doing a good enough job of being a human being.. |
| What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about? |
sbyrstall said: The problem is that people today want to make governments to removal all obstacles to make life fair. The multimillionaire did not become rich by sitting on their butt, they had to work for it. They chose that path. The poor and destitute made a different choice and look where it got them. This is an extremely simplistic view on the matter. Edison became rich selling Tesla's work. Did he work more than Tesla? Was he a better inventor? Was his existence more valuable to mankind than Tesla's? No, he was just a better salesman. I know you grew up in an ultra liberal and capitalist system but you guys could try to see the difference between making cash and being valuable. |
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| I believe in the equal intrinsic value of every human life. Whether it's a criminal or a person esteemed by society, whether it's someone who accomplished nothing or contributed many, the intrinsic value is just the same for everyone. That's why there should be justice or reckoning for evil deeds, because they violate the life of another. Not that the life of the one who did evil is of less intrinsic value. |
蒼穹を舞う。  |
| objectively yeah. but humans are not objective, so we don't see everyone as equally important. you value the lives of people you love more than the lives of random people. most would value the life of a great scientist more than the life of a homeless person who has never done anything 'for the greater good'. are your loved ones and the scientist actually more important once you ignore your own emotions and human standards of productivity and use for society? no. except people typically don't care about that. i don't really see the point of discussing this. |
deadoptimist said: Though I think shit-flinging should also have standards - no personal, no behind the scenes. |
| I'd rank my life as worth more than about half of the planet's population combined. Same for people that I like. The worth of a human life is relative to the different parties involved in evaluating it. Take for example the worth of life from the perspective of nature. The American who smokes, drives a car and uses plastics is more detrimental than the aborigine who lives more or less in harmony with nature. So from the environment's point of view his life is worth less, even if he pays the salaries of a few thousand people. It's really a matter of perspective. One of the reasons many religions were created was to ascribe extra worth to the lives of human beings anyways. |
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| No every human is treated differently. For example my brother is smart that he is on the top class or rank 1-3 while I'm like in the low end or opposite. I sometimes think life is unfair |
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| Yes, Yes they are. What everyone seems to be missing, with their socio/pshychopathic responses, is that to an individual their life is important. Your importance on your own life is equal to the importance I place on my life. Your judgments don't matter. Your labels don't change the importance someone else has for their life. Think the homeless guy is a waste of space and doesn't matter? He disagrees. His life is important to him. When you contemplate this kind of question you have to get out of your selfish and self centered mindset. Your "opinion" isn't the answer. |
 An Infinitely Expanding Universe Of Infinite Possibility. |
RaTTman77 said: Yes, Yes they are. What everyone seems to be missing, with their socio/pshychopathic responses, is that to an individual their life is important. Your importance on your own life is equal to the importance I place on my life. Your judgments don't matter. Your labels don't change the importance someone else has for their life. Think the homeless guy is a waste of space and doesn't matter? He disagrees. His life is important to him. When you contemplate this kind of question you have to get out of your selfish and self centered mindset. Your "opinion" isn't the answer. But even according to your standards not all lives are equal. There are suicidal people. But really how important a life is depends on which angle you look at it from. |
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| We're just animals, all animals are equal. |
Trance said: I'm a guy and I can imagine buttfucking another guy. I don't find the thought repulsive, and I can even imagine kissing another man. |
| All lives start out as equal. After that point it's up to the individual to prove if his life still has worth by his decisions and acts throughout his life. |
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| Equal is a big word, you should specify in what way |
Kona_Kana said: All human lives are equal because they're worth absolutely nothing. A person's life makes no difference in the bigger picture. I agree with this. In the grand scheme of things each and every one of us is utterly pointless and everything we do is for nothing. One day the Sun will begin to expand, making life on Earth impossible. The Earth will vanish from existence and all that we have done will be as though it was never there, save for whatever bits and pieces have made it into space by that time. I don't truly believe that we'll ever colonize anything outside of our solar system, even though I really want to. |
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shotz_ said: here we see typical sjw illogical thinkingsbyrstall said: yeah for sure. fuck those people who chose to be born poor.The problem is that people today want to make governments to removal all obstacles to make life fair. The multimillionaire did not become rich by sitting on their butt, they had to work for it. They chose that path. The poor and destitute made a different choice and look where it got them. any intelligent human being knows that poor people just need to get jobs |
deadoptimist said: Though I think shit-flinging should also have standards - no personal, no behind the scenes. |
Kuromii said: Kona_Kana said: All human lives are equal because they're worth absolutely nothing. A person's life makes no difference in the bigger picture. I agree with this. In the grand scheme of things each and every one of us is utterly pointless and everything we do is for nothing. One day the Sun will begin to expand, making life on Earth impossible. The Earth will vanish from existence and all that we have done will be as though it was never there, save for whatever bits and pieces have made it into space by that time. I don't truly believe that we'll ever colonize anything outside of our solar system, even though I really want to. Why not? Homo Sapiens have existed for only around 200,000 years. Could sound like a lot but considering how the age of the planet is 4.543 billion years I think we've managed to achieve a lot in that amount of time (though to be fair there isn't exactly another sentient race to base our progress on). After 200,000 years we managed to send a person to the moon. In fact, we could do the same for Mars but it's too expensive, impractical and there isn't exactly a space race going on now so there's not much motivation for it. People once thought flying was impossible. Not to talk of advancing into space. I'd say we can be plenty optimistic. |
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| Uh, duh? What kind of question is this? This is bait for 13 year olds who think they're intellects to come in and talk about their support for euthanasia whilst using their inhalers. |
 Was it the shyness in my soul that made me lonely just like you? No one noticed I was there, when I walked into the room. -Freddie Mercury |
| Ofc NOT lol. Jared from subway or some outstanding citizen? Who would you save? |
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kawaiiyuris said: shotz_ said: here we see typical sjw illogical thinkingyeah for sure. fuck those people who chose to be born poor. any intelligent human being knows that poor people just need to get jobs Yeahhh. No,that's not how it works. Your thinking is oversimplified and,really,kinda illogical too. Depending on how poor you started,plenty of factors are gonna keep you from getting that job quickly or at all; not having a working phone,not being able to afford decent clothing or proper hygiene for an interview,lack of transportation means,having next to no means of networking,etc. Even with job-searching facilities you can find in some cities,it can go from an extremely long process to an outright lottery. Not saying that they shouldn't try regardless,but you sound like someone who has never had a hard time,no offense. |
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FujinKeima said: dude i know i sounded exactly like 80% of mal users when they're being completely seriouskawaiiyuris said: here we see typical sjw illogical thinking any intelligent human being knows that poor people just need to get jobs Yeahhh. No,that's not how it works. Your thinking is oversimplified and,really,kinda illogical too. Depending on how poor you started,plenty of factors are gonna keep you from getting that job quickly or at all; not having a working phone,not being able to afford decent clothing or proper hygiene for an interview,lack of transportation means,having next to no means of networking,etc. Even with job-searching facilities you can find in some cities,it can go from an extremely long process to an outright lottery. Not saying that they shouldn't try regardless,but you sound like someone who has never had a hard time,no offense. but i was joking at the expense of people who say shit like that it's not a real opinion |
deadoptimist said: Though I think shit-flinging should also have standards - no personal, no behind the scenes. |
| No. A killer is not equal to a person who gives to charity. |
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| No. Some people are better than others, making their lives more valuable. I don't think Hitler and Ghandi's lives were of equal worth, do you? |
| Criminals are inferior. People who violate human rights deserve a lesser position in society. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Criminals are inferior. People who violate human rights deserve a lesser position in society. That kind of thinking would put a lot of authorities in the lower tiers of society,hehe. |
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| My life is more valuable to me than anyone else's and that's how it should be. If there's going to be any measure of value beyond me being the main character of my own life, then it's how much I care about others. My friends and family would be next followed by those who would change the world/my life to one I'd find more positive. Everyone else may as well be an insect. It's not that I'm heartless or sociopathic, I simply don't have the emotional energy to pretend to care about random strangers or to internalize some idealistic concept of value. |
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| Everyone is equally worthless but ((((we)))) agree to set some qualities to measure |
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| nope there is definitely hierarchy or status pyramid in place especially by society, but we are all equal in death though |
| Suppose there is a doctor that saves 10 lives each day. The cost of his life is 1 (his own) + 10*Day. Suppose there is a stoner that smokes weed in his basement to nobody's expense or benefit. The cost of his life is 1. But we can't let the doctor take all the credit for other people's lives, so let's say that his contribution towards the people he saved has even a 5% value, such that his life is 1 + 0.5*D. Then we can check that lives are not equal by: 1 ?= 1 + 0.5*D 0 =/= 0.5*D with lim(D-> infinite). If we reject this, then we are saying that saving 10 lives a day has no value in this regard. Take your pick. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
merryfistmas said: Everyone else may as well be an insect. It's not that I'm heartless or sociopathic, I simply don't have the emotional energy to pretend to care about random strangers or to internalize some idealistic concept of value. i'd agree to an extent, they are an insect, in comparison. but think of it this way, i can't pretend random strangers are entirely insignificant to me, if charles manson was on one rope and a random stranger like merryfitmas was on the other I'd save Manson cuz at least he wouldn't give howl's moving castle a four! you disgust me for bad taste. |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
Yes said: There's only the Human race. Which "races" would you be referring to? That's an inferior way to think. You make your life worth less by that statement.No otherwise, there wouldn't be inferior races. |
| An Infinitely Expanding Universe Of Infinite Possibility. |
TheDeadApostle said: Actually, from my point of view they are. The suicidal person's life isn't worth less. And, the question wasn't about you judging your own life to be equal or not. There Are many who believe they are worthless while others love and cherish them.RaTTman77 said: Yes, Yes they are. What everyone seems to be missing, with their socio/pshychopathic responses, is that to an individual their life is important. Your importance on your own life is equal to the importance I place on my life. Your judgments don't matter. Your labels don't change the importance someone else has for their life. Think the homeless guy is a waste of space and doesn't matter? He disagrees. His life is important to him. When you contemplate this kind of question you have to get out of your selfish and self centered mindset. Your "opinion" isn't the answer. But even according to your standards not all lives are equal. There are suicidal people. But really how important a life is depends on which angle you look at it from. The point is, there is nothing about anyone that makes them "better" than another. If anyone thinks there, is then they've proven that there isn't. Lives are equal. Opinions are not. |
| An Infinitely Expanding Universe Of Infinite Possibility. |
Korrvo said: I don't think so I mean If I have to choose between saving a guy with lots of family and friends who care about him and a homeless person, guess who I'm gonna save. You are adding other people to the mix op asked if each individual human life is equal. |
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| People are not born equal. Some are much more luckier than others. For example, an A person is born poor and humiliated by everyone around them from the day they're born and a B person is born wealthy and loved by everyone and encouraged to do great things. When the two become totally different people with different social classes and power, a "neutral" person without their background info would find the B person worth saving. There is also people who don't have opportunities but choose to create them for themselves. Thus, I guess all people should be evaluated within their own possibilities and how they react to them. In an ideal world, all human lives should be equal. I respect people who are able to go through hardships in a determined and positive manner more though. |
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ashfrliebert said: You're right, I forgot about people with negative value, like those who rated Kill la Kill a 1 and Michael Vick.merryfistmas said: Everyone else may as well be an insect. It's not that I'm heartless or sociopathic, I simply don't have the emotional energy to pretend to care about random strangers or to internalize some idealistic concept of value. i'd agree to an extent, they are an insect, in comparison. but think of it this way, i can't pretend random strangers are entirely insignificant to me, if charles manson was on one rope and a random stranger like merryfitmas was on the other I'd save Manson cuz at least he wouldn't give howl's moving castle a four! you disgust me for bad taste. |
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lapotatoe said: To me, a person's worth can be measured by their relevance to other people. I can't really measure a person's worth without involving other people into the mix.Korrvo said: I don't think so I mean If I have to choose between saving a guy with lots of family and friends who care about him and a homeless person, guess who I'm gonna save. You are adding other people to the mix op asked if each individual human life is equal. People may be equal at birth but they certainly don't stay that way. |
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| Obviously not, colors, religions, sex and lots of other reasons. Heck, imagine if it's Awomen instead of Amen. |
 Yes, I am CD 2.0's overlord. |
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