The situation of anime:
I know, but I'm letting you know that because in Latin/South America I was told that Korean language classes in those area has started to see a big enrollment in those area due to the popularity of Korean pop culture. |
| Its getting more popular thanks to meme animu like One Meme man and Kek La Kek Their fanbase is filled with Normies |
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| Well the only new anime I'm watching is Tales of Zestiria the X. It's based off of a game, and it's quality is amazing. It feels like I'm watching an epic movie while high, but idk about other anime. And of course it's getting more popular. The people that already watch it won't just stop, and some people who find out about it will start watching. |
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ixaa said: @mdo7 but you have to remember that Korean is significantly easier to learn than Japanese. It's both easier to speak and write. If people wanted to learn an extra language, then they would choose the one that's more useful or easier. Well that would depend on how the person learning Korean found the language either difficult or easy. Yes, I do agree it's easier for people to learn Korean then Japanese. But Korean still has it's own difficulty. But to be honest, I find Chinese to be more difficult then Japanese because of how confusing, and maybe complex it is. It doesn't help that Chinese has many dialect. It also doesn't help that Taiwanese Mandarin, Singaporean Mandarin does differ from Mainland Mandarin. |
| It's gaining popularity, and I would say that while one could argue the aggregate quality has been deminishing (due to an over saturation of shows designed to sell which can compromise its quality), there is an argument to be made that there are still an increasing rate of better anime being produced. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| I think anime is more popular than it ever was, I don't know about manga though but I'm guessing it's only gotten more popular. But honestly the storytelling and execution of how things happen is getting worse, also originality is just much harder to come across since so many storylines and ideas have already been pitched throughout the few decades. We're starting to get some really bizarre trends that pander to some otaku bullshit. Like characters that are drawn as females, have female voice actors, wear skirts, but are in fact presented as a male. I can't stand that shit. Just one of many. |
| @Nagitoxhxc @GamerDLM @Nico- I found some data which seem to back up my facts on if decline in Japanese-language enrollment in graduate level US college/universities is linked to anime losing popularity, again this is subjective and debatable. Source: US grad-level enrollments in Japanese continue long decline Now this is undergraduate enrollment for Japanese and Chinese language classes: Number of undergraduate enrollments in Japanese and Chinese per enrollment in a graduate course for the same language  Now this is where it get disturbing, despite having a lot of undergraduate enrolling in Japanese language, the number of graduate-level enrollment in Japanese has decline for the last few years: U.S. graduate-level enrollments in Japanese, 1960–2013:   Now compared the number of enrollment of Japanese and Chinese graduate: Graduate enrollments in Japanese vs. graduate enrollments in Chinese, 1986–2013  So if anime is popular like people claim, why is the # of graduate enrollment of Japanese language classes in US colleges/universities have been declining, and why do undergraduate that enroll in Japanese classes don't continue to study Japanese at a graduate level? So what could be the cause for undergraduate student not to go to graduate level? -Japanese language being too hard (that's one reason) -Maybe Korean pop culture making them switch to Korean and drop Japanese (I've heard from K-pop fans that used to study Japanese just drop the language when they used to like anime, and when K-pop and K-drama became popular they just immediately switch to Korean) If anime fans are really that passionate about Japanese culture and language, they wouldn't be just giving up on the language despite how hard it is. I mean Chinese language is much harder then Japanese, but look at the # of graduate for Chinese language compared to Japanese. So yeah, this make me question about anime popularity after looking at the data. Also, I saw this from a Hawaiian newspaper: Despite dramatic decrease of Japanese speakers in Hawaii, some vow to keep it alive How big is the anime fandom in Hawaii? If the anime fandom is big in Hawaii, why are they not helping preserve or showing the passion for the Japanese language like they do for anime? Again, these 2 sources I listed above do make me question how big anime fandom is in the US because if anime fandom is that passionate for their hobbies, why are they not showing the same for the language? |
mdo7 said: Holy shit these assumptions.So if anime is popular like people claim, why is the # of graduate enrollment of Japanese language classes in US colleges/universities have been declining, and why do undergraduate that enroll in Japanese classes don't continue to study Japanese at a graduate level? So what could be the cause for undergraduate student not to go to graduate level? First of all, learn statistics. You need to first prove that people are interested in learning Japanese because of anime. I would reckon the vast majority of people who learn Japanese learn for either business purposes or to learn to read literature and watch Japanese cinema, both of which require a much stronger understanding of the Japanese language. The evidence suggests that people learning Japanese for the purposes of watching anime are completely unsubstantiated. Note the very graph that you posted. Growth in graduates increased substantially through the 80s and 90s. If you were familiar with Asian economics, you'd know that Japan had a huge boom in the 80s, which would have meant, much like how many people learn Chinese now, that it would be worth it to learn Japanese for business purposes. The Japanese asset bubble crashed in the early 90s, so there is some discrepancy between this analysis and why the #s kept growing. A few things to consider however: 1. There is likely a time lag on the number of graduates and the economic effects of the country in question. This could be because people suspect the Japanese economy might rebound, and at the lows would be a good time to enter the job market in Japan. These are "graduates" after all, so it's not impossible to argue that a good number of these students were already in Japanese language programs before and after the crash. 2. College Board started allowing for a Japanese Subject Test in Japanese around the early 1990s. People who want to learn a second language will likely want to have prior knowledge of that language if they want to study it. The availability of a subject test allows for that. These two explain the meteoric rise of the Japanese language in the 80s and early 90s. A big reason why students stopped learning Japanese after this period is simply because the courses were no longer offered. A vast majority of primary and secondary schools stopped teaching second languages in the decade of the 2000s save for the teaching of Chinese. Second language programs have really only come back stronger in the late 2000s, and the majority of them are for Spanish and Chinese, both of which are culturally and economically relevant. Finally, nobody needs to learn Japanese anymore to "understand" anime. People already read Japanese novels, which are much more sophisticated from a linguistic standpoint, than anime, in translation. There's literally zero reason for almost anyone these days to learn a second language because: 1. A vast quantity of people across the world can speak English. 2. Most important things are translated into English. 3. If they are learning a second language, it is likely their native tongue is not English, and their second language is English. With the exception of puns and linguistically challenging anime that rely on word play to make jokes or make a point, most anime don't require a robust learning in the language. Factor in the fact that people are likely transitioning from languages like Japanese, French, German to Chinese, and you get most of the actual logical reasons why people are abandoning languages in favor of something like Chinese. In conclusion, your entire post is a crock of shit. Please don't make assertions without understanding anything about the historical, economic, and social context of the times and assume that "anime" is the only correlation with these statistics. In other words, don't post graphs if you can't interpret them correctly. |
| @Yudina Finally, nobody needs to learn Japanese anymore to "understand" anime. People already read Japanese novels, which are much more sophisticated from a linguistic standpoint, than anime, in translation. There's literally zero reason for almost anyone these days to learn a second language because: 1. A vast quantity of people across the world can speak English. 2. Most important things are translated into English. 3. If they are learning a second language, it is likely their native tongue is not English, and their second language is English. Well how do you explain a big jump in Korean language enrollment around the same time Korean pop culture like K-pop and K-drama got more popular. I mean the link between K-pop and K-drama popularity in the west and the increase in Korean language enrollment is evident. So that means if Korean pop culture can make people learn and studied Korean. Then why didn't anime/manga make fans learn Japanese language. There are other factors too like South Korea is becoming a big market for investment and etc... But it was definitely K-pop and K-drama popularity that make Korean language enrollment in the west jumped up. So that's why it raises question about anime fandom and are they really passionate about the language. If K-pop and K-drama cause a big jump in Korean language enrollment in colleges/universities, then anime/manga should've done the same for the Japanese language. I mean majority of anime fans watch anime in subtitled format, so all that exposure to Japanese language should've motivate majority of anime fans to have studied the Japanese language. |
mdo7 said: @Yudina Finally, nobody needs to learn Japanese anymore to "understand" anime. People already read Japanese novels, which are much more sophisticated from a linguistic standpoint, than anime, in translation. There's literally zero reason for almost anyone these days to learn a second language because: 1. A vast quantity of people across the world can speak English. 2. Most important things are translated into English. 3. If they are learning a second language, it is likely their native tongue is not English, and their second language is English. Well how do you explain a big jump in Korean language enrollment around the same time Korean pop culture like K-pop and K-drama got more popular. I mean the link between K-pop and K-drama popularity in the west and the increase in Korean language enrollment is evident. So that means if Korean pop culture can make people learn and studied Korean. Then why didn't anime/manga make fans learn Japanese language. There are other factors too like South Korea is becoming a big market for investment and etc... But it was definitely K-pop and K-drama popularity that make Korean language enrollment in the west jumped up. So that's why it raises question about anime fandom and are they really passionate about the language. If K-pop and K-drama cause a big jump in Korean language enrollment in colleges/universities, then anime/manga should've done the same for the Japanese language. I mean majority of anime fans watch anime in subtitled format, so all that exposure to Japanese language should've motivate majority of anime fans to have studied the Japanese language. The thing there is you've now taken a reasonable piece of information "South Korea is becoming a big market for investment and etc." and completely shrugged it off to push a conclusion that seemingly can't be proven and as such has limited to no correlation with the actual graphs you're referencing. It would be different if you could find like a nationwide survey on why people are taking certain languages but to push that it's because of K-pop and K-drama with nothing to show is just guessing. |
| In terms of quality, I'd say that's what it's losing the most. But regardless I'm pretty sure it's never gonna lose popularity at all. |
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GamerDLM said: The thing there is you've now taken a reasonable piece of information "South Korea is becoming a big market for investment and etc." and completely shrugged it off to push a conclusion that seemingly can't be proven and as such has limited to no correlation with the actual graphs you're referencing. It would be different if you could find like a nationwide survey on why people are taking certain languages but to push that it's because of K-pop and K-drama with nothing to show is just guessing. I would need more data to back that up, but I do have enough sources that confirmed majority of people that took and enrolled Korean language have said it on record it was K-drama and K-pop that made them learn the language. So a lot of thing doesn't add up: if Korean pop culture (K-pop and K-drama) made a lot of people learn and enroll in Korean-language classes, then why didn't anime/manga do the same for Japanese language. Why don't anime fans take the Japanese language passionately the same way K-pop/Hallyu fans take Korean language seriously? |
mdo7Aug 24, 2016 5:50 PM
mdo7 said: South Korea is a developing country, financially speaking. Pop culture and K-dramas could have some effect, but there's also been a huge rise in people who study English to teach in countries like Chinese, South Korea, and Japan, which would necessitate them probably taking some courses in the language of their country of choice. Study abroad is now much more popular than before, and so students are likely to take some classes on a country they wish to study in. South Korea could be the most popular of the three countries because:Well how do you explain a big jump in Korean language enrollment around the same time Korean pop culture like K-pop and K-drama got more popular. 1. Culturally speaking, it has the most similarities with the West in forms of its pop culture. 2. There's less perceived xenophobia and resistance to foreigners as there is in, say, Japan (I say perceived because the reality is likely different depending on who you are). 3. It's seen as much less environmentally deleterious than a place like China, making it a much "cleaner" place to go to. In addition, the number of South Korean students who have come to the United States in the last couple of years has spiked considerably. I believe it's one of the top five foreign countries with the most foreign students in the United States. It's possible that a rather significant number of number likely sign up for Korean classes purely because they perceive it as being an easy A. The same can be said about native Chinese/Japanese speakers who enroll in their own language courses, though the number of Japanese foreign students in the US pales in comparison to South Korean/Chinese. Finally, I hope you're aware that people learn languages for different reasons. People learn French still and that's far from being a super profitable language to learn from a business perspective, but people learn it because they like it. I can't tell you what are the 100% effects of why people learn a language, but I can tell you if your interpretation just conflicts with reality, which yours obviously has. mdo7 said: You're drawing a conclusion without any proof. All you can say with certainty is that it's a factor. All of the above factors are either much more prominent or contributing factors.I mean the link between K-pop and K-drama popularity in the west and the increase in Korean language enrollment is evident. So that means if Korean pop culture can make people learn and studied Korean. Then why didn't anime/manga make fans learn Japanese language. There are other factors too like South Korea is becoming a big market for investment and etc... But it was definitely K-pop and K-drama popularity that make Korean language enrollment in the west jumped up. Besides, you're comparing apples to oranges. You can't suddenly say that the passion for kpop/drama is similar to fans having the passion for anime. K-dramas and k-pop are much more widely talked about than anime. Just look at someone like Psy or Girls Generation. These names bear so much more weight and are much more famous to the average person. Gangnam Style itself probably has more individual views than entire seasons of anime on Funimation. In addition, the demographics of these fans are different, so you can't compare what these fans are going to study when they go to school. You can still be a fan and not have any passion for the Japanese language. If you listen to Kpop, you are likely listening to it because you like how the music fucking sounds, and how it sounds is dependent on the Korean language. I'm sure you're aware that there's a non-insignificant number of people who watch anime dubbed? That Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, Samurai Champloo, NGE, and a number of the most popular anime to come to the West are all dubbed? Naruto's dubbed. Sailor Moon's dubbed. DBZ's dubbed. What's the point of learning Japanese when you like anime regardless of its language? You can't say the same for Kdramas and Kpop which aren't dubbed. And again, interest in the Japanese language does not necessitate that they're somehow interested in anime. The number of people enrolling in Japanese does not mean that even a fraction of those people are enrolling specifically because of anime. You're better off slicing fragments from animation and cinema schools, since way more people enroll in anime classes specifically to watch anime in class. mdo7 said: This logic makes me want to bleach my brains. I'm just not going to respond to it, since I've already said more than I need to above.So that's why it raises question about anime fandom and are they really passionate about the language. If K-pop and K-drama cause a big jump in Korean language enrollment in colleges/universities, then anime/manga should've done the same for the Japanese language. I mean majority of anime fans watch anime in subtitled format, so all that exposure to Japanese language should've motivate majority of anime fans to have studied the Japanese language. Maybe you should learn logic and statistics. |
YudinaAug 24, 2016 5:56 PM
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