| IMO, his message applies more to people who are trying to accomplish something, messages of effort and perseverance works if you trying to do something...In that case he's kinda right, don't give up on your dreams and stuff... Now, if you like me, who just want to have a chill life watching anime and playing videogames, this message doesn't apply at all... |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
HyperL said: IMO, his message applies more to people who are trying to accomplish something, messages of effort and perseverance works if you trying to do something...In that case he's kinda right, don't give up on your dreams and stuff... Now, if you like me, who just want to have a chill life watching anime and playing videogames, this message doesn't apply at all... i'll have you know it takes hard work, dedication and perseverance to sit through naruto! |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| Misleading title. He's talking about society in general, not just Western. But yeah, I'm with him all the way. It's always a good thing to strive for better. |
| OP, what does this have to do with western culture? Because it doesn't state he is pointing out western culture specifically, and some of those ideals he is criticizing occur in other cultures as well. And I agree with him, but I see this mainly from parents to their kids that don't have the balls to tell their little billy he's a dumbshit at math and needs tutoring. People think this mentality is only within a specific culture, but I have met parents from different parts of the world, and almost all of the bothers baby their kids and make them seem they don't have to try because they're so "great" now. I will say that I think people often misinterpret statements such as "you are wonderful the way you are" and see it as a pass to never work or focus on those things you are wonderful at and make them even better. You can still be wonderful and tell people that they are, but we should also encourage people to better themselves even when they have had high achievements meeting high standards. Buuuttt, I will only speak for anime now. I have seen anime fans on these forums, other forums, and even YT comments, get extremely pissy and defensive when others state their criticisms for what they view as high quality and claim those people are being too "harsh" with their scores or statements. NO, you think telling people they are too harsh, when it comes to criticizing quality, is a beneficial mindset to have? It may suck to hear, but we need to be open to hearing negative analysis about pieces of work (even if we like them) because every opinion, good or bad, is beneficial to growth (instead of being lazy and not really caring about trying). People hate criticism whether its about their English report, or favorite anime. People shut down negative opinions far too often because they think they are "annoying" or "offensive" to the show. Silencing negative critiques (even if it is only about anime) contributes to being stagnant and not working on your abilities. And let's be honest, everything I said can be applied to most things, because people lose it over hearing one harsh opinion about themselves, or their artwork, because their wholes lives they were told how special they were and how they could do no wrong... |
KonaKoffeeJun 28, 2016 3:01 PM
 Banner credit to @turnip |
| I'm too complacent and lazy to even read that article so I guess he's right. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Clickbait titles are the best titles. Reminds me of the boob thumbnails of 2007 youtube. I think I should do a React Girl-esque channel. My natural charisma will bring some revenue, for sure. |
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
| Nice clickb8 OP, real nice clickb8 On another note >Michihiko Tōei Literally who? |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Reviewed a few a pages of his works and they seem very much like the artwork in a few doujin I've read before. Might write hentai under a different pseudonym. And it's not like there are a lot of popular historical seinen manga out there. The guy is working his niche as hard as it can, it seems. |
| I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
Holybaptiser said: Oh really?Reviewed a few a pages of his works and they seem very much like the artwork in a few doujin I've read before. Might write hentai under a different pseudonym. And it's not like there are a lot of popular historical seinen manga out there. The guy is working his niche as hard as it can, it seems. Hohohohoho that's hilarious |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Comic_Sans said: Yeah. Holybaptiser said: Oh really?Reviewed a few a pages of his works and they seem very much like the artwork in a few doujin I've read before. Might write hentai under a different pseudonym. And it's not like there are a lot of popular historical seinen manga out there. The guy is working his niche as hard as it can, it seems. Hohohohoho that's hilarious RIP Michihiko Tōei's dignity. 19xx - 28/6/2016 In memory: |
| I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
| I agree there are a lot of lazy, entitled people out there. On the other side of the coin there are people who are extremely passive and unambitious due to things like poor self-esteem, anxiety, and depression - the kind of people who just want to get through life without making any waves. The guy makes a lot of generalizations, and every culture is different. |
| There is always room for improvement but that's just me. It didn't specify that he was talking about western or the US maybe he just means in general. |
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| Where does it say anything about west? I wonder how many people will got bait by the misleading title. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| Dude just needs to get over the fact that the traditional work-until-you-die mindset is rightfully dying off, and work-slowly-and-methodically is rightfully taking its place. As far as anime goes, look at KyoAni and ufotable--both studios have recognized the importance of doing things more carefully and with more diligence, and guess what? They (usually) put out some of the best-looking anime to have ever been made. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
| Western society has nothing to do with this. But either way while it's good to try your best, it's definitely bad to go overboard with it and end up fucking killing yourself. The term 'death by overworking' was pretty much unknown to me before I started watching anime.. |
| Too lazy and don't give a shit to even find out what any of this is about.... kthxbye |
| easier said than done, back in the 70s the world economy is doing more better than today, even simple factory work back in those days can give you financial security already but look at how the economy is today though, the salary barely increase worldwide but inflation goes up, while employers always look for the best employees and if you are young then you will get minimum wage or low salary, its fucking demotivating for the young kids today |
| Not much of an article being only 2 paragraphs and one of them was just quoting what he said. Not sure where he sees the themes of less effort and don't have to overdo things in pop culture. Although I do worry about certain trends on the internet where people do minimum effort, but get rapturous applause for it. |
| He's just jealous that fairy tail and black clover mangaka are making serious money. |
 |
| You must be illiterate. He's not even specifically talking about western society. |
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| The West actually does push us to strive for the best. The primary message in schools is that unless you have a start-up company by the age of 24, you're useless. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: The West actually does push us to strive for the best. The primary message in schools is that unless you have a start-up company by the age of 24, you're useless. Heh don't forget all the pressure there is to go to college and if you're not doing that then you're going to amount to a waste of flesh :p |
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| It's okay, because we criticize them for discriminating against women with their games. Oh, so that's why all of the school anime have so many dumb students who fail everything. I thought Japanese school standards may have been higher, or that perhaps Japanese students were just stupid. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
| Japanese does not care about the west, neither do we care about japan. |
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| He is right about that. But the rest of Asia would kill for the amount of leisure and second chances the western society gives. |
| @Haneken2086 Anime artist criticizes Western society for being complacent and lazy I suppose you meant "manga artist" and "pop/sub-culture to promote" Haneken2086 said: And the Japanese work long hours, and are they happy about it? The author never said this was good, only that the culture was in those years often illustrating people who don't strive for a goal, work toward something etc and like you said "comtempt" themselves with what they have instead of trying to achieve something. I invite you to read this (little) report: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-06-28/manga-artist-criticizes-messages-in-pop-culture-validating-mediocrity/.103629 |
| He talks about the pop culture... nowehre in the articles does he mention the West. Not only that but he makes comparations with manga protagonist's from the past, so he obviously speaks about the Japanese Pop Culture. |
 |
MortalMelancholy said: Oh, so that's why all of the school anime have so many dumb students who fail everything. I thought Japanese school standards may have been higher, or that perhaps Japanese students were just stupid. It's just that their education system sucks, and anybody who wants to actually learn anything has to go to cram schools or let people who did so teach him/her. Case to point: English language. Nobody seems to know it in Japan, even though it's a school subject. Zelkiiro said: Dude just needs to get over the fact that the traditional work-until-you-die mindset is rightfully dying off, and work-slowly-and-methodically is rightfully taking its place. Well said! Thank you. KonaKoffee said: And I agree with him, but I see this mainly from parents to their kids that don't have the balls to tell their little billy he's a dumbshit at math and needs tutoring. It's not like being good at math is going to make you happy in the future. Source: me. Reason: j0x said: easier said than done, back in the 70s the world economy is doing more better than today, even simple factory work back in those days can give you financial security already but look at how the economy is today though, the salary barely increase worldwide but inflation goes up, while employers always look for the best employees and if you are young then you will get minimum wage or low salary, its fucking demotivating for the young kids today |
flannan said: It's not like being good at math is going to make you happy in the future. Source: me. lol it's obvious I was just using an example. I was basically saying that we can still tell people how wonderful they are, but that doesn't mean we should hold back from encouraging them to become even better in whatever they are doing. This doesn't only apply to math or anime, it's anything that you want to work towards and become good at. It shouldn't come off as being too harsh just because someone says they must work hard to get what they want. |
| Banner credit to @turnip |
KonaKoffee said: Buuuttt, I will only speak for anime now. I have seen anime fans on these forums, other forums, and even YT comments, get extremely pissy and defensive when others state their criticisms for what they view as high quality and claim those people are being too "harsh" with their scores or statements. NO, you think telling people they are too harsh, when it comes to criticizing quality, is a beneficial mindset to have? It may suck to hear, but we need to be open to hearing negative analysis about pieces of work (even if we like them) because every opinion, good or bad, is beneficial to growth (instead of being lazy and not really caring about trying). People hate criticism whether its about their English report, or favorite anime. People shut down negative opinions far too often because they think they are "annoying" or "offensive" to the show. Silencing negative critiques (even if it is only about anime) contributes to being stagnant and not working on your abilities. And let's be honest, everything I said can be applied to most things, because people lose it over hearing one harsh opinion about themselves, or their artwork, because their wholes lives they were told how special they were and how they could do no wrong... You know, there are valid reasons to dislike excessively critical responses to a work. 1) If you're looking for an anime to watch, and, in a fit of madness, decide to use the reviews for that reason, you're looking to see if the work has good points and how do they compare with the bad points. Over-empathizing bad points leads to misrepresenting the show to the potential viewer. 2) Many "critics" spend a great amount of time doing such fruitless labors as criticizing a sitcom for lack of plot, or criticizing a show meant for teenage males for fanservice. These shows are, indeed, fine the way they are, and in criticizing, the "critic" really says "I don't want this show to be made in the first place. Give me more elitist awards bait!". 3) Often enough, I see critics arguing against things that make the work good in the first place. For example, SAO not being a bloodthirsty anime like Mirai Nikki or Attack on Titan. Or SAO showing the inherent problems of level-based systems by having Kirito stand in the middle of a group of thugs who are all unable to hurt him. Or SAO being full of good-looking girls. |
GD1551 said: He's wrong though, the highly competitive nature of Japan is what currently has them in the state they are in. Mass suicides and instances of NEETS or whatever the other term is. You probably wanted to say one of "hikkikomori" or "freeter". GD1551 said: It has been proven that creating a more lax work situation gets much more productive workers and less mistakes being made. It's not like this needs proof for anybody who did try to work past safe limits. Next day, you spend a whole lot of time pulling out the bugs. Way more time than the time you spent making these bugs. |
flannan said: You know, there are valid reasons to dislike excessively critical responses to a work. 1) If you're looking for an anime to watch, and, in a fit of madness, decide to use the reviews for that reason, you're looking to see if the work has good points and how do they compare with the bad points. Over-empathizing bad points leads to misrepresenting the show to the potential viewer. 2) Many "critics" spend a great amount of time doing such fruitless labors as criticizing a sitcom for lack of plot, or criticizing a show meant for teenage males for fanservice. These shows are, indeed, fine the way they are, and in criticizing, the "critic" really says "I don't want this show to be made in the first place. Give me more elitist awards bait!". 3) Often enough, I see critics arguing against things that make the work good in the first place. For example, SAO not being a bloodthirsty anime like Mirai Nikki or Attack on Titan. Or SAO showing the inherent problems of level-based systems by having Kirito stand in the middle of a group of thugs who are all unable to hurt him. Or SAO being full of good-looking girls. well there is absolutely nothing wrong with disagreeing with their statements and telling them how you feel. So if you dislike reviews then that's perfectly fine, as I do too, but what I was initially saying had to do with discouraging peple from being "harsh" with how they score and criticize anime. However, this doesn't mean that I think critics should be "less harsh" or not speak their mind. Some people criticize anime for dumb shit, but they should be just as welcome to voice their opinions as much as anyone can who may feel the opposite. Although, someone saying they don't want a certain show to be made isn't criticizing the anime, because if they are asking for it to be made first then it's obvious they haven't even seen it... Also, just because most reviews from random users are shitty doesn't mean I have anything against them writing the reviews and stating their dislike and likes. People criticizing an anime series isn't the end of the world. I always see people give shit I love a 1 or 3 out of 10, I really could care less and I can't tell them they're wrong. If someone else decides to pick anime ONLY based on the MAL reviews, and decides to not watch it because someone made arbitrary points for why they dislike it, then that isn't my personal business. I understand we all want people to love what we love, but not everyone is going to think like us and I don't think that type of cult mentality should be encouraged anyways. I welcome all people who review anime and either give it a 1/10 or 10/10 as long as that is how they truly feel. But we need to stop being so sensitive over the fact that people are "harsh" when it comes to scoring and analyzing anime, because anyone who's a user here has the right to review and score how they please. If nobody is bullying you personally then we need to stop being so sensitive over these things. |
KonaKoffeeJun 29, 2016 4:39 AM
| Banner credit to @turnip |
Holybaptiser said: Clickbait titles are the best titles. Reminds me of the boob thumbnails of 2007 youtube. They're butt thumbnails now and that's even better |
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| I like that this comes form a Mangaka, because his job is Japan in a nutshell. We probably can all agree that drawing/writing maga is a stressful job and you have to work long hours to kep your deadlines. Yet it's badly paid, you accomplish nothing and your worth to society is next to nothing. He is the prime example of someone who settled for mediocrity... |
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| , he said as a mangaka. C'mon, you can't say that when your own medium is even lazier. |
| Yeah, the West tends to be more laid-back and lazier. Nothing new here. |
 |
| I kinda agree that the western society is kinda lazy, but the eastern society isn't really much better with all of the Asian tourist rude behavior nonsense. |
YellowCorvette said: I kinda agree that the western society is kinda lazy, but the eastern society isn't really much better with all of the Asian tourist rude behavior nonsense. More money = more things one can do. Such are the benefits of the '08 recession~ |
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YellowCorvette said: I kinda agree that the western society is kinda lazy, but the eastern society isn't really much better with all of the Asian tourist rude behavior nonsense. It's not because they're travelling they're lazy though. |
Otaku-Gunso said: TheBrainintheJar said: The West actually does push us to strive for the best. The primary message in schools is that unless you have a start-up company by the age of 24, you're useless. Heh don't forget all the pressure there is to go to college and if you're not doing that then you're going to amount to a waste of flesh :p You also reminded me how narrow the options you have in the west. It's school > college > university. There are no different institutions or methods to learn, to progress in the field. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Otaku-Gunso said: Heh don't forget all the pressure there is to go to college and if you're not doing that then you're going to amount to a waste of flesh :p You also reminded me how narrow the options you have in the west. It's school > college > university. There are no different institutions or methods to learn, to progress in the field. You also reminded me of how much money or brains it takes to do all this. Surely everyone knows college isn't cheap, plus if you don't have good brains then you're really destined for failure because if you don't have the money then you NEED your brains. College isn't for everyone but I guess on that note neither is a promising substantial future and present that one could be proud of. |
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| To be honest I think he's right to an extent. I don't think this applies well to most of Europe. But based off living in America, this country is lazy as fuck. However I think the brightside is that people have more individuality and freedom as well. People in the USA feel more genuine and I feel like I'm making more "real" friendships. In Korea/Japan there is too much societal norms, respecting elders, and other bullshit that makes it difficult to have more meaningful conversations. IMO as a society Japan/Korea is better structured for working. However in America it is much better for the individual. |
Haneken2086 said: Okay, looking back at it, he’s speaking as an artist and as a Japanese citizen. As an artist, he definitely has a point. You can’t rely on pop culture too much to draw your ideas from, that’s just using parodies and stereotypes and comes off as copying and plagiarism. Even works that are based on parody (Shrek, TMNT) developed into their own original stories. As a Japanese citizen, that’s a more gray area. Japanese people may be industrious and hardworking and set high standards of excellence, but they push themselves too hard and are on the verge of suffering social/mental breakdowns. To each their own in the end. But I think that talent should not be an obligation to others, not unless you yourself have passion in it and get happiness from it; otherwise you’re the equivalent of a machine or a performing animal. I do agree that the concept of 'parody' here in the West is too big. It's not meaningful parody but just references and mockery. I can't wait for the wave of 'adult cartoons' like Family Guy to die. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
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