GoldenKappa said: Z-Dante said: *cough* Pardon me, I couldn't even handle Code GeAss. How do you expect me handle your retro? >.> Since when was Code Geass retro?..... Weird to think, but in 11 years Code Geass will be retro. Back in 2007, 1987 was still considered retro so its only a matter of time. I can't lie, in 2027 its going to be pretty cool to see which 2000 - 2010 anime are remembered as legends and which ones are considered a product of its time or a fall from grace in popularity. I can only assume in 2027 that DeathNote, Clannad and Gurren Lagaan will be seen as the "ahhh the glory days". |
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| Personally, a lot of older anime have that style of animation that you can't get anymore. There is always the charm of old fashion hand drawn animation. Of course old anime did had bad titles back then too like MD Geist. There is a lot of good newer anime too. |
| People who make irrational generalizations about anime aren't people to talk about anime to. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Kagami said: Weird to think, but in 11 years Code Geass will be retro. Back in 2007, 1987 was still considered retro so its only a matter of time. I can't lie, in 2027 its going to be pretty cool to see which 2000 - 2010 anime are remembered as legends and which ones are considered a product of its time or a fall from grace in popularity. I can only assume in 2027 that DeathNote, Clannad and Gurren Lagaan will be seen as the "ahhh the glory days". Yeah, it won't surprise me if that does happen. I do find it funny that anime from the 90's is view as too old for people now. In the 90's, anime fans didn't want to watch 60's and 70's anime for being too old. I guess in 2026, Death Note will be view as "Too old!" by younger fans. |
Lyuze said: Kagami said: Also irrelevant. TBH, its not very complicated: There are enjoyable shows every year. Retro and new fans allow preference to cloud their judgment and they begin saying old stuff is shit or new stuff is shit. Yuru Yuri was a great show, but so was the 90s classic Romeo no aoi sora. Both had vastly different approaches, but both are fantastic. I agree with your sentiment but Yuru Yuri is trash and that was an atrocious comparison. nah bro, anybody with unclouded judgment will recognize yuru yuri as one of the greatest shows... ever. get that cloud out of your judgment dude. |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
truisms said: Lyuze said: I agree with your sentiment but Yuru Yuri is trash and that was an atrocious comparison. nah bro, anybody with unclouded judgment will recognize yuru yuri as one of the greatest shows... ever. get that cloud out of your judgment dude. I didn't say that exactly. I'm saying retro fans or people who often dismiss cute girls doing cute stuff often don't take all aspects of new anime or cute anime into account. Though, new fans do this with retro too. If you decided to read the entire thread, you may of noticed my point. Also, you may of noticed the actual discussions. Disliking Yuru Yuri is fine, but the cute girls doing cute things = bad excuse is getting pretty out of hand. Though, have anything productive to add to the discussion? |
KagamiJun 26, 2016 3:29 AM
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| Actually now that I think of it, I've never hated any old anime. Tenchi Muyo is one of my faves. |
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Gesu- said: Kagami said: Yes. Sadly, some retro and some new fans let preference of when anime was created cloud and fog actual logical thinking. Its fine if you prefer retro or new, but calling one shit when you prefer the other typically is biased from what I've seen. GunBuster from the 80s was good and had a 10/10 ending, but just because its core foundation and cliches were different from let's say Natsuiro Kiseki, doesn't make it better for that reason. There are so many ways to approach the concept of what makes a show good. Is it grit? Is it cuteness? Nah. Its how the show was made despite which year its from. Yuru Yuri is as good as good 80s anime, but good 80s anime is as good as FMA B. All are completely different shows, but all were good at what they did. I doubt most 'retro-haters' have even seen any old anime to begin with. Most of them probably just watched a bit of NGE and concluded that 'it has shitty animation'. It does? I felt the animation was impressive tho. Especially in the first episode. |
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Out-of-topic, but your example made me laugh quite a bit. Until I reached the M: Z-Dante said: how am I supposed to handle the Retro ones? Several Ghibli movies, "Do you remember Love?", Venus Wars (I am talking about the technical side, not the scenario), etc... a lot of movies from the late 80s, early 90s have still superior (hand-drawn) drawings and better animation than most of today's TV series (that youngsters watch avidly). Even some OAVs from this time are still more than decent today. @TheDeadApostle It goes down over the course of the series. More reason for them not to watch the full series: they would lose their mind somewhere along the TV finale. |
Rei_IIIJun 26, 2016 5:40 AM
CapitalistGod said: Gesu- said: I think their judgement doesn't even go that far. Some people look at it's year and get into the series assuming it's gonna be bad. Some people are that close minded. look at this guy for example; http://myanimelist.net/animelist/tragedydesu Pretty much the poster boy for that one...haha! Speaking of posterboys.... This guy is another one... I mean, it's Snob who inspired me to make this post... haha! Well to be fair I can't actually disagree with any of his judgments in that video. I'm a modern-anime advocate and even I think the seasonal output this year so far has been mediocre at best. His conclusion that "retro anime is functional simplicity" is dumb though. You could make an argument like that for videogames, because retro videogames tended to have much more focus on creating a set of mechanics and rules that work well, but retro anime uses pretty much the same narrative techniques as modern anime. |
| Maybe. But there are some people who are especially biased towards retro anime, especially new comers to the community, over animation. I don't mind bad design as long as everything else is still good. |
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Kagami said: truisms said: nah bro, anybody with unclouded judgment will recognize yuru yuri as one of the greatest shows... ever. get that cloud out of your judgment dude. I didn't say that exactly. I'm saying retro fans or people who often dismiss cute girls doing cute stuff often don't take all aspects of new anime or cute anime into account. Though, new fans do this with retro too. If you decided to read the entire thread, you may of noticed my point. Also, you may of noticed the actual discussions. Disliking Yuru Yuri is fine, but the cute girls doing cute things = bad excuse is getting pretty out of hand. Though, have anything productive to add to the discussion? what I would say is that the 'cute girls doing cute things = bad shows' discussion is at best tangential to the retro vs modern argument and that your position on shows like yuru yuri (which are bad) has nothing to do with your ability to appreciate both newer and older series. |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
CapitalistGod said: (and those who avoid old anime like the plague) Don't you think they're just full of confirmation biases and are just closed minded as hell? in a sense yes, most people aren't watching the terrible shows that came out 10 or 20 years ago so of course. i do think the last few seasons or even years have been largely devoid of anything especially high quality but that's not because they're modern, it's because of specific recent trends within the industry |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
TheDeadApostle said: Gesu- said: I doubt most 'retro-haters' have even seen any old anime to begin with. Most of them probably just watched a bit of NGE and concluded that 'it has shitty animation'. It does? I felt the animation was impressive tho. Especially in the first episode. It was. It was outstanding for its time (even more so in the case of EoE). |
Rei366 said: Z-Dante said: how am I supposed to handle the Retro ones? Several Ghibli movies, "Do you remember Love?", Venus Wars (I am talking about the technical side, not the scenario), etc... a lot of movies from the late 80s, early 90s have still superior (hand-drawn) drawings and better animation than most of today's TV series (that youngsters watch avidly). Even some OAVs from this time are still more than decent today. Let's not forget the 1993 Ah! My Goddess OVA series, which looks way better than 95% of anime released today. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
| It's not a matter of what's best, it's just that older anime and newer anime are very different in art style (cells vs digital), target (most anime are late night series since the 2000s) and overall style, so it's normal to have a preference towards a certain era. They're not bias, they're rightful propensities. Within these propensions, there are still different tiers of series. I guess there is no one who enjoys every old series ever made. |
Z-Dante said: *cough* Pardon me, I couldn't even handle Code GeAss. How do you expect me handle your retro? >.> This is the reason I never got into olddd anime. I love seeing the art style and I've learned to appreciate it alongside the plot & characters. But retro anime has such old animation, makes it unbearable... |
kryptic2g said: Zelkiiro said: Good stuff that you can't see cause the art and animation is too shitty.The benefit of hunting for shows of the past is that they're, well, past. You don't need to sit through the harem garbage anymore--you can just dive straight into the good stuff. Bad art and animation can be excused with good visual directing. To reply to OP: Everyone is dumb including me and you. |
| every single one of my forum posts is dumb and invalid except for 1, I don't claim them it was a different person it was all fake |
| Actor Justin Long said it perfectly in "Live Free or Die Hard": "What sucked back then still sucks even now." Old =/= great and neither does new =/= great. In every era, there has been crap and time will prove that every future era will also have crap. |
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| Generally speaking I do tend to favour older anime but yeah I do agree with you. There was shit coming out then and there is shit coming out now. Just check out the schlocky OVAs that were coming out in the late 1980s and early 1990s. I also find the latter crowd particularly annoying and superficial. |
Take care of yourself |
razortongue said: Generally speaking I do tend to favour older anime but yeah I do agree with you. There was shit coming out then and there is shit coming out now. Just check out the schlocky OVAs that were coming out in the late 1980s and early 1990s. At least the scholocky OVAs at the time have a charm to them. Anime these days rarely are that violent expect for Blood C, Corpse Party and Shigurui. Deadman Wonderland and Akame Ga Kill had really bloody moments, but they are still tame compare to stuff like Devilman, Wicked City, Genocyber and Ninja Scroll. I personally wish someone would make a modern day anime or manga in a similar tone of sholocky OVA's from the 80's and 90's. |
| You can't compare those two groups because there is one major difference. People who love or maybe even prefer older anime will almost always still have decent amounts of modern anime on their list so they base their opinion on actual experiences. Those experiences may be not enough to hold the extreme opinions they're having, but they're not talking 100% out of their asses when they say they prefer older anime and tend to be disappointed by newer ones because they've actually tried both. Their wrong generalizations are at least based on actual experiences so to some degree it's understandable. 98% of people who have an unreflected bias/hate against older shows have NOT seen anything that explains their biased impressions. It's purely hearsay and a general philosphy of 'everything new has to be better than anything old because it's new and not old and oldness is bad and newness is good, all hail apple products!' I know for a fact that both sides are usually wrong with their extreme opinions on what makes the other side unwatchable, but oldfags are much more willing to try out a modern recommendation if you throw them at you and they'll usually admit that there still are good modern shows, just that on average anime has gotten worse or something like that. The newfags on the other hand have no old shows on their lists because they are not open to recommendations, they believe it's impossible for something old to look decent and be worth a watch and they'll pretend that there are literally no old shows that for example have good visuals. Their views tend to be MUCH extremer. The only reason oldfags are so much more hated by the community is that newfags make up about 70% of the anime fandom. So it doesn't matter if they're moderate and fairly reasonable when it comes to discussing the details or individual shows, as long as they have one wrong opinion (like anime is declining because moe is ruining the industry) they're treated much worse than the newfags who literally talk out of their ass 100% of the time, making factually wrong judgments about things they never touched and never want to touch, who have no reasonable bone in them and hold a million completely unreasonable opinions toward old anime and their fans. But as long as they're not saying moe is ruining anime they're cool people that everyone likes to hand out with. That's pretty much the current state of that 'conflict'. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Z-Dante said: I'm comparing the Artstyle quality. Code Geass is fairly modern ( 2007) and well received but it got some freakin' terrible Artstyle. If I can't handle the code Geass graphics, how am I supposed to handle the Retro ones? You are terrible for hating thin figures lol But seriously, its your opinion but Code Geass art isn't retro, and the old character design is pretty good if you ask me, I saw a 5 minutes of some early episode of LotGH and the character design is one of the best I've ever seen. Looking forward to that anime. |
| First off, can anyone link to any manifestation of "You can Never go wrong with Retro" crowd ? I know there are folks like that, but I never saw them act as a crowd. And as much as I find it sad that some folks are never going to enjoy the good stuff from past times, and annoying when only-new-is-good-fanbois get obnoxious, aka confusing their own preferences with "objective truth" and thinking they have to preach their "truth" to everyone else all the time ... I also do not understand why not respecting their preferences, as long as they do not act out obnoxiously about them. When someone creates a topic asking for recommendations and says "please no old stuff", then why lecture them there that some old stuff is not ugly. No need to generally aggress them always over that matter of preferences, imo. . Like, I do have aversions against some artstyles myself, like faces like this (late? 90's into early 2000's ?), and will watch a show featuring these horrible-to-me looks only if I am very interested for other reasons (that face is from Uchuu no Stellvia and I will watch it. :p ) And I want to be free to dislike these faces without being aggressed for that. Pullman said: it's new and not old and oldness is bad and newness is good, all hail apple products!' ftfy |
BannoBunka_snorkJun 26, 2016 1:05 PM
| *darn, using my right hand is off-limits for a while. Typing with my left hand only is ... eww.* |
truisms said: Kagami said: I didn't say that exactly. I'm saying retro fans or people who often dismiss cute girls doing cute stuff often don't take all aspects of new anime or cute anime into account. Though, new fans do this with retro too. If you decided to read the entire thread, you may of noticed my point. Also, you may of noticed the actual discussions. Disliking Yuru Yuri is fine, but the cute girls doing cute things = bad excuse is getting pretty out of hand. Though, have anything productive to add to the discussion? what I would say is that the 'cute girls doing cute things = bad shows' discussion is at best tangential to the retro vs modern argument and that your position on shows like yuru yuri (which are bad) has nothing to do with your ability to appreciate both newer and older series. I also think you aren't understanding why I chose Yuru Yuri. I picked Yuru Yuri because its so vastly different than 80s anime, but both are really good at what they execute. Like I have already pointed out, your or somebody's opinion on Yuru Yuri is irrelevant. I just strongly believe both Romeo no aoi sora and Yuru Yuri are great shows if you put aside biased opinion. Not to mention there are plenty of retro fans who think cute girls doing cute things and more killed anime. Though, its hard to believe they have tried all of them out or look at all aspects of the show. Just like some new fans. |
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| AVOIDING FUCKING THINGS THAT YOU DONT FUCKING ENJOY DONT MEAN YOU ARE A FUCKING CLOSE MINDED IT MEAN YOU ARE NOT A FUCKING MASOCHISM |
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| If people think that retro anime are all perfect in every way, they're closed minded, and this works vice versa. |
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| There are tons of shitty retro shows, but they're still much better than today's anime. |
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Zelkiiro said: The benefit of hunting for shows of the past is that they're, well, past. You don't need to sit through the harem garbage anymore--you can just dive straight into the good stuff. You can dive right into the stuff you're looking for with present anime too Not every single modern anime is a harem anime, contrary to popular belief, I know because I actively seek out harem anime and I end up finding much less than people have led me to believe You just have to look at the premise or genre of something you see or hear about and see if it interests you. Same with old anime, too. Not like harem wasn't around in the retro age anyway, Urusei Yatsura is generally regarded as the first harem anime to be adapted and the anime was released in 1981. Then there's City Hunter which was in 1987, and so forth. Harems aren't as new as people think. basically I think everything about this sentiment is quite silly, old chap. Pip pip cheerio, tea and crumpets, yadda yadda. |
ManabanJun 26, 2016 2:26 PM
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| Akira is retro and it's complete shit. Non Non Biyori Repeat is from last year and it's great. |
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Kagami said: what shows are bad if you put aside biased opinion then? you're saying that according to some criteria of objective judgment, shows that consist entirely of middle school students doing 'cute' things are great shows?truisms said: what I would say is that the 'cute girls doing cute things = bad shows' discussion is at best tangential to the retro vs modern argument and that your position on shows like yuru yuri (which are bad) has nothing to do with your ability to appreciate both newer and older series. I also think you aren't understanding why I chose Yuru Yuri. I picked Yuru Yuri because its so vastly different than 80s anime, but both are really good at what they execute. Like I have already pointed out, your or somebody's opinion on Yuru Yuri is irrelevant. I just strongly believe both Romeo no aoi sora and Yuru Yuri are great shows if you put aside biased opinion. Not to mention there are plenty of retro fans who think cute girls doing cute things and more killed anime. Though, its hard to believe they have tried all of them out or look at all aspects of the show. Just like some new fans. |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
CapitalistGod said: Gesu- said: I think their judgement doesn't even go that far. Some people look at it's year and get into the series assuming it's gonna be bad. Some people are that close minded. look at this guy for example; http://myanimelist.net/animelist/tragedydesu Pretty much the poster boy for that one...haha! Speaking of posterboys.... This guy is another one... I mean, it's Snob who inspired me to make this post... haha! whew, this guy's voice is not very suitable for vlogs. though that's probably the point. his taste isn't very strong either, I feel he's either just a really annoying guy or it's a gimmick gone way too far. |
ashfrliebertJun 26, 2016 3:37 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
truisms said: Kagami said: what shows are bad if you put aside biased opinion then? you're saying that according to some criteria of objective judgment, shows that consist entirely of middle school students doing 'cute' things are great shows?I also think you aren't understanding why I chose Yuru Yuri. I picked Yuru Yuri because its so vastly different than 80s anime, but both are really good at what they execute. Like I have already pointed out, your or somebody's opinion on Yuru Yuri is irrelevant. I just strongly believe both Romeo no aoi sora and Yuru Yuri are great shows if you put aside biased opinion. Not to mention there are plenty of retro fans who think cute girls doing cute things and more killed anime. Though, its hard to believe they have tried all of them out or look at all aspects of the show. Just like some new fans. I think you're still misunderstanding. I'm not defending all cute girls doing cute things anime, but they are often dismissed by some retro fans for alone without taking other aspects into the equation. Just because an anime consists of cute young girls doing random activities doesn't make it a trash show. For what its trying to execute, it can be good. Though, you're only focusing on one part of my argument. I'm just saying some retro fans and a lot of new fans have a biased criteria when judging anime. If you read back, this has been discussed with Gesu. Also, which shows are bad is irrelevant to my point... |
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Kagami said: well, yes, and my point is that you also have a biased criteria when judging animetruisms said: what shows are bad if you put aside biased opinion then? you're saying that according to some criteria of objective judgment, shows that consist entirely of middle school students doing 'cute' things are great shows? I think you're still misunderstanding. I'm not defending all cute girls doing cute things anime, but they are often dismissed by some retro fans for alone without taking other aspects into the equation. Just because an anime consists of cute young girls doing random activities doesn't make it a trash show. For what its trying to execute, it can be good. Though, you're only focusing on one part of my argument. I'm just saying some retro fans and a lot of new fans have a biased criteria when judging anime. If you read back, this has been discussed with Gesu. Also, which shows are bad is irrelevant to my point... |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
Lisbon said: Zelkiiro said: The benefit of hunting for shows of the past is that they're, well, past. You don't need to sit through the harem garbage anymore--you can just dive straight into the good stuff. You can dive right into the stuff you're looking for with present anime too Not every single modern anime is a harem anime, contrary to popular belief, I know because I actively seek out harem anime and I end up finding much less than people have led me to believe You just have to look at the premise or genre of something you see or hear about and see if it interests you. Same with old anime, too. Not like harem wasn't around in the retro age anyway, Urusei Yatsura is generally regarded as the first harem anime to be adapted and the anime was released in 1981. Then there's City Hunter which was in 1987, and so forth. Harems aren't as new as people think. basically I think everything about this sentiment is quite silly, old chap. Pip pip cheerio, tea and crumpets, yadda yadda. Plus Nowadays we don't know how good upcoming shows will be, causing many to dig through the so called "Garbage". We only have a slight indication of how good the shows of the past are to you because you can only find a show good if YOU find it good. |
| Personally I don't like when people don't watch something with a outdated animation style. It's like the people who don't want to play retro video games because they don't have current gen graphics or old movies because they don't have modern day special effects. I think people are missing out on a lot of great stuff if they only want to watch stuff from 2005 - now. I guess if you only watch modern stuff, that's good for you but I think you are missing out on a lot of good stuff. |
| Look, as someone who is and is known for being an older anime fan, I simply like the great works of the late 70s/80s/90s. It's not a confirmation thing for me, although I can completely see why certain retro fans would give you that impression. I watch modern Anime and I've actually tried to watch more of it lately. The only thing it confirms to me is that most modern Anime is overrated. I think what pisses off a lot of older anime fans is the MAL rankings. Modern Anime has a HUGE bias towards it. Anime in Japan that are considered all time classics are rated in the high 7s/low 8s here, while the newest hot seasonal anime seems to be rated in the mid to high 8s. The ironic thing is that older anime fans are the ones keeping the old anime ranked lower because they are the ones who actually watch old anime, thus give it its ratings; however, newer anime fans tend to overrate the hell out of newer series because they aren't exposed to the classics. Let's take DBZ for an example. I have it rated an 8, and it's one of my favorite anime of all time, but I'm actually lowering its MAL ranking. Steins;Gate is ranked #3 on this site and I gave it a 7/10. The fact that Erased and NGNL are rated highly on this site really tells it all for me. Thankfully, it's easy to interact on this forum and there are some excellent reviews as well, so if you're looking for great anime you'll find it. MAL ratings are to be taken with a huge grain of salt. |
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truisms said: Kagami said: well, yes, and my point is that you also have a biased criteria when judging animeI think you're still misunderstanding. I'm not defending all cute girls doing cute things anime, but they are often dismissed by some retro fans for alone without taking other aspects into the equation. Just because an anime consists of cute young girls doing random activities doesn't make it a trash show. For what its trying to execute, it can be good. Though, you're only focusing on one part of my argument. I'm just saying some retro fans and a lot of new fans have a biased criteria when judging anime. If you read back, this has been discussed with Gesu. Also, which shows are bad is irrelevant to my point... I don't recall you ever bringing that point up, not even indirectly. Though, the topic at hand is what we're discussing and for this topic of retro/new I am 100% open to anything. So your point for this discussion is not that relevant. Everybody has preferences which is obvious. I am certainly neutral going into any anime, even yaoi. |
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| The only valid reason I've seen for preferring earlier / older anime is that they seem to be longer in length, and thus cover more of the source, rather than 12-episode-read-the-source endings. Apart from that, I just ignore both those who disparage old anime and those who laud it. |
 It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
Kagami said: it was implied by my line of reasoning which is that being open towards both old and new shows is admirable BUT that your specific example wasn't representative of any sort of unbiased show watchingtruisms said: well, yes, and my point is that you also have a biased criteria when judging anime I don't recall you ever bringing that point up, not even indirectly. Though, the topic at hand is what we're discussing and for this topic of retro/new I am 100% open to anything. So your point for this discussion is not that relevant. Everybody has preferences which is obvious. I am certainly neutral going into any anime, even yaoi. |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
zombie_pegasus said: Akira is retro and it's complete shit. No one can deny Akira's stellar animation though. |
MechaGuy said: zombie_pegasus said: Akira is retro and it's complete shit. No one can deny Akira's stellar animation though. Not to mention its kickass soundtrack and incredible atmosphere. ...But yeah, the script is ass. |
This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
Zelkiiro said: Not to mention its kickass soundtrack and incredible atmosphere. ...But yeah, the script is ass. The script is surprisingly good for how much of the source it tried to adapt. Although I think I read somewhere that the movie was primarily made to look good, which makes sense. |
| Every era had bad and good anime, it's just most of the bad old stuff has just been forgotten. Most of my favorite animes are pre-2010 though. Some people can't stand the old animation but there was exceptions in the past like 2002's (yeah some people consider that old) Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, the CGI opening actuelly still looks great and the 2D animation in the show is still up to par with stuff currently airing. Then there's Akira, while some people might be turned off by the older art style that actual animation is really smooth and nice looking, it was 15-20 years ahead of it's time, in fact I think the animation in that is better then some of the stuff airing now. Most older anime does admittedly have worst animation but that doesn't bother me, some people don't like the older anime art style but I don't mind it, it actuelly gives me some variety, a lot of new anime kind of looks the same and mostly using bright colors and has a clear picture, some older animes were aesthetically darker and some people like that. Also another great thing about older anime is that more of it stared adults, I guess that's back before anime companies realized how much money they could make off of teens and I guess they figured that most teens would want to see people there age just like how many adult anime fans would like some more animes that star adults. Also some people are just sick of the loli characters. There was some great anime in the past I'm going to list some that are pre-2005 Wolfs Rain Outlaw Star Trigun Cowboy Bebop Neon Genesis Evangelion Ghost in the Shell (1995) Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex Akira FLCL Any Studio Ghibli movie Though there's many great 2010's anime to like: Psycho-Pass Steins;Gate Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt Wolf Children Any Studio Ghibli movie Madoka Magica Hunter x Hunter (2011) You can go wrong with retro as there has always been bad anime but there's pretty much always been good anime as well. People have just forgotten the bad anime from the past and to people just getting into anime they usally won't hear about the bad ones. Current anime is fresh in are minds and of course as anime airs we try to decided weather it's good or not. Also some people just don't like the new art style as much and are tired of all of the lolis and teenage or really young adult protagonist, I don't mind teen protagonist but I would like to see some people in there mid 20's or even older as a protagonist. I don't mind lolis as long as they aren't being used as fanservice or just wasting time. Most of my favorite anime is pre-2010 though and it's not that I'm nostalgic (as I really started watching anime in 2013, I was really only watching Pokemon and Speed Racer before that) I love: Wolfs Rain (2003) Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (2002) Ghost in the Shell (1995) Cowboy Bebop (1998) Outlaw Star (1998) Studio Ghibli movies (most of those are pre-2010) Death Note (2006) Full Metal Alchemist (2003) Full Metal Alchemist (started in 2009) FLCL (2000) Steamboy (2004) Shinreigari: Ghost Hound (2007) Michiko to Hatchin (2008) Ergo Proxy (2006) Summer Wars (2009) Akira (1988) Though I do love some post 2010 anime like Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt (2010) Wolf Children (2012) Studio Ghibli movies Steians;Gate (2011) Inari, Konkon, Koi Iroha (2014) Gingitsune (2013) Shimoneta to Iu Gainen ga Sonzai Shinai Taikutsu na Sekai (2015) The Boy and the Beast (2015) Flying Witch (2016) Hunter x Hunter (2011) Psycho-Pass (2014) I think that people should be open to both newer and older anime and not pretend that either doesn't have bad shows or good shows. |
Pullman said: So it doesn't matter if they're moderate and fairly reasonable when it comes to discussing the details or individual shows, as long as they have one wrong opinion (like anime is declining because moe is ruining the industry) they're treated much worse than the newfags who literally talk out of their ass 100% of the time, making factually wrong judgments about things they never touched and never want to touch, who have no reasonable bone in them and hold a million completely unreasonable opinions toward old anime and their fans. But as long as they're not saying moe is ruining anime they're cool people that everyone likes to hand out with. That's pretty much the current state of that 'conflict'. Well, they're fairly open minded, I admit... but those guys still falls into the confirmation bias I talk about. They're still equally *bad*. |
CapitalistGod said: (and those who avoid old anime like the plague) Don't you think they're just full of confirmation biases and are just closed minded as hell? It goes both ways. Modern anime fans are also close-minded. When retro fans recommend older shows they say shit like "ew the art style is ugly." Honestly it's the same petty shit from both parties. I also have a strong preference for retro series but I still like some newer stuff like: Tatami Galaxy Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Katanagatari Kill la Kill etc. The main problem that I have is that in the 90s/80s there were plenty of god awful shows however most of them were acknowledged by the fans. In turn many of them weren't that successful. Of course there are some exceptions but for the most part this held true. However recently many fans call everything good/amazing/creative when most of the shows they praise are shit. Hence these shitty shows become popular. Ask 90's fans what they think of Gundam X. They will tell you it's shit. Ask modern fans what they think of Mirai Nikki. They will tell you it's not as good as SAO but it's still great. There's no such thing as a "bad show" for a lot of modern anime fans. |
truisms said: Kagami said: it was implied by my line of reasoning which is that being open towards both old and new shows is admirable BUT that your specific example wasn't representative of any sort of unbiased show watchingI don't recall you ever bringing that point up, not even indirectly. Though, the topic at hand is what we're discussing and for this topic of retro/new I am 100% open to anything. So your point for this discussion is not that relevant. Everybody has preferences which is obvious. I am certainly neutral going into any anime, even yaoi. I don't think you understood my post. Either that or you're confusing yourself. Are you trying to say that at my Yuru Yuri example? If so, how would a person who hates that psuedo-genre while giving the type of show a fair chance by excluding their bias towards moe and cute not be considered going into a show without prior bias reasons? That would certainly be considered being neutral and unbiased show watching... Not sure what you're even going on about anymore. If you're biased towards a genre or anything, but decide to enter the show with a clear head to see if it executes well when looked at its genre, that's being unbiased. That's judging it without being bias. |
KagamiJun 26, 2016 8:19 PM
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Ryuuzahar said: Both (modern and old) fans is can be right at the same time but have a different criteria. Modern fans (especially the new ones) mostly look only on production values of an anime alone when comparing to older ones. You can't blame them, especially the kids or that teenager having a mentality of a kid. Anime can offer more than that. I have a friend who says anime under 2005 is shit because they look bad and the history behind modern anime is irrelevant. Amount he has seen; 0 |
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| I really enjoy both old and new anime. I have favorites from both. As far as remakes go I typically like the original but I don't go around yelling and bitching how the remake or sequel is trash and should burn. My stance is usually 'they both have good qualities but I personally prefer [whichever version I prefer]'. I have seen many close minded people on both ends of the spectrum, but I think it varies from person to person. |
| monger of all moths |
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