Yes/No/Maybe?
| No it hasn't. It's just that nothing is original anymore because everything that is possible in terms of story or setting has been done already. And lol @ everyone saying that anime is getting shittier by the season. There were always trash anime along with some good ones. Only the really good and industry changing ones are remembered by the west. |
| If you think that anime is not ambitious, not trying different things and isn't as good as it used to be; then you're not looking in the right direction. There are good and bad anime. If you only look at the bad ones of today and compare them to the good ones of the past, how is that a fair comparison? There were shitty anime in the past too. It's just that the good ones stand out and are remembered. Same goes for the ones that are being made today. The good ones will be remembered and the bad ones will be forgotten. Then, someone like you will pose a similar question in half a decade or so asking why studios aren't making good anime like they used to in 2015-2016. |
Something witty that makes you think I'm funny Defeating a sandwich only makes it tastier |
this is so true, i would so much prefer to see adult tall skinny good-looking cutely dressed badass girls in anime. |
| Anime has always been commercialised, and that is fine. The guy on the left is a corporate figurehead who just wants to start a new trend for more $ The guy on the right actually cares about animation and knows what he wants. |
Luthandorius said: When I see boring stuff like Re:Zero easily getting highest scores at MAL I can understand why studios only want to mass produce boring generic stuff. You're watching Enride and Mayonaga and gave them a 7. Your opinion on what's boring is way beyond irrelevant. |
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| No as long as people remember that thing like Shirobako exist. |
 Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
TheEntropy said: > originalAnime is definitely less original then it has ever been honestly. For every Erased or Madoka that is aired there is 5-10 (depending on season) generic harems that follow. > eresed and madoka can i laugh? |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Kuma said: TheEntropy said: > originalAnime is definitely less original then it has ever been honestly. For every Erased or Madoka that is aired there is 5-10 (depending on season) generic harems that follow. > eresed and madoka can i laugh? Madoka at least had some neat and unique ideas present (i.e. the Incubators and their goals); Erased is just a shitty one-suspect mystery crossed with Detective Conan and Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward. And it does everything poorly. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
Zelkiiro said: madoka idea already done... see bokurano and narutaru, there is also alien 9 too... and i don't critics both TBH.. but saying them original is lies... same goes with death note that also mentioned here too..Madoka at least had some neat and unique ideas present (i.e. the Incubators and their goals); Erased is just a shitty one-suspect mystery crossed with Detective Conan and Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward. And it does everything poorly. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Nope! I hate the countless moeblob, harem, and lame comedy shows just as much as the next person, but there are still worthwhile, inspired and ambitious shows released each year in about the same proportion that they've always been released. It comes down to this: 1) In terms of number of good works vs. number of sub-par or bad works, most works of any medium are uninspired/just plain bad by volume. Most movies are not good or inspired. Most books are not good or inspired. Most music is not good or inspired. Anime is no exception, and it never has been. Most anime is not good. How many shows come out per season? 30-40? If one of them is very good, two to five are watchable/pretty good, and the rest are mediocre or outright bad, then proportionally I'd say that aligns with history. It's what you as a viewer should expect. Would I like it if more stuff was good? Of course; who wouldn't? The point is that it's not the norm for a large amount of works to be awe-inspiring and never has been. 2) Time and people tend to try to forget bad things. People think the 90s and early 00s was some golden age because the shows that time preserved and that people still watch and talk about are, largely, critically acclaimed standouts that withstood the test of time. For every Cowboy Bebop or Lain or whatever show you pick, there are probably twenty (or more) shitty OVAs or mediocre shonens or corndog sci-fis or poor melodramas or terrible ecchi shows from the same time period that you've never even heard of, because they are not memorable or well-liked and everyone forgot about them. To not realize this is to be naive, plain and simple. And that same phenomenon is exactly what will eventually happen to the very shows everyone is complaining about. A lot of people are going to fondly remember One Punch Man and Kill la Kill in five years, while in the same amount of time Generic Catgirl Show 7439 will be rightfully buried in the obscurity reserved for forgettable dreck. 3) People don't look hard enough and/or are unwilling to accept something different from their "old favorites." While I did just argue that most anime, movies, books, music, etc. are inherently not good, there are still good works being produced in all of the above mediums if you actually have an open mind and are willing to take the time to go find them. "Most" is not the same thing as "all." The world is full of curmudgeons saying "all this new-fangled music is bad" or "all these new-fangled movies are bad" or, yes, "all this new-fangled anime is bad." If you think any of those things, it's pretty likely that you are either not looking hard enough to find good content, the good content doesn't align with your personal tastes (which is not the same as that content actually being “bad” or "derivative") or you have a nostalgic bias that makes you want to think that good shows are becoming rarer and rarer when in fact there are just as many out there as there ever were. And all of those things are fine! We don't all have the spare time, open mind, or desire to be actively rummaging around for the needles in the haystack, especially when we already have a laundry list of shows that we saw and loved and can watch on demand. But the conclusions you should draw from those things are "I don't have the time to search through years of new content" or "I just personally like and am attached to old shows that I've already seen so I'd rather watch them," not "all anime these days is uninspired shit." tl;dr there are ambitious, inspired, good shows in the same proportions that there always have been. Watch them or don't, but don't brush them off as nonexistent, because anyone with eyes, a brain, and time can find and see them. Sorry for the lengthy post, just my two cents. |
mahoganycowMay 25, 2016 8:30 AM
| Nope.... Just last season we have Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu... Also, we still have Hiroyuki Imaishi... Ambition is still alive and kicking. |
| Just don't watch modern anime then. No one's forcing you. I find anime till the mid 2000s to be somewhat more stimulating to watch than the newer stuff. But there's atleast 1 or 2 really good anime that come out every year. |
Lobinde said: Anime has always been commercialised, and that is fine. The guy on the left is a corporate figurehead who just wants to start a new trend for more $ The guy on the right actually cares about animation and knows what he wants. Couldn't have said it better, at least the guy on the right is being completely honest lol, which is exactly how I like to be This "back in my day when things hadn't been done before, it was better" mentality just needs to fuck off lol Something is only original ONCE after that it's rehashing |
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| I don't know much about 90's anime. But what's with this ambition crap. The anime industry is an entertainment industry and it's ambition should always be to entertain. What other ambition are we talking about here?? If it's about the decrease in quality then aren't you guys being way too harsh on mordern animes. You guys always name some of the legendary animes to glorify the past decades but forget that there were hundreds of flops along the way. I'm sure the amount of good anime that comes out every year is almost the same as the no. of good animes that used to come out in a single year in the past. |
RomeoXDMay 25, 2016 9:10 AM
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Wensbane said: Guys, keep in mind this isn't another "anime is dying" thread. It's about derivative works, possibly as a result of monetary constraints. If anime were in fact dying, Netflix wouldn't be pumping millions into it. @Rei366 I don't really separate it into ages, I just think 1995 saw the birth of a special phase within the industry. A phase that died around 2007 when anime, by and large, started catering to a different crowd. They say the same thing about EVERY form of media, it's so funny the negative things they say and said about they about music Once something grows things become generic, people become obsolete etc, that just how shit works Anime is bigger than its ever been, why ppl just can't be happy about that idfk |
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RomeoXD said: I don't know much about 90's anime. But what's with this ambition crap. The anime industry is an entertainment industry and it's ambition should always be to entertain. What other ambition are we talking about here?? To entertain while simultaneously doing something more interesting than just aping K-On for the umpteenth time. It's a waste of time, it's a waste of their money, and it's just going to kill them in the long run, because if I wanted to watch K-On, I'll just fucking watch K-On. |
This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
JustALEX said: BTW....how many MALers were even around in the 90s? I swear, it won't be too long until the majority of people on here will have been born 2000 and above. I be feelin old af knowing I'm 10 years older than some of the kids on here I'm glad I completely lack the "back I my day" mindset, as if ppl haven't been saying this shit about w/e for as long as media has existed I ain't gon be that old person saying that lol |
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| Oh look, an "anime is dying, good ol' 90s will never happen again" thread, because this is even more original to make a thread about than creating an original show, right? No anime is fine as is. Yes there are lots of shitty shows coming out now, and yes anime is definitely being produced more for the money than for the entertainment, but there are still a good deal of good shows coming out with each season, and there are definitely shows where you can see the studio actually gave a damn. But hell, it's not like pirating is helping the industry getting much better to begin with anyway, and there is the problem that the anime fanbase has a specific demand, meaning the studios will often have to cater towards whatever is popular to earn as much as possible. Also stop pretending like the pre-2000 only had good stuff, because that's a load of bs aswell. |
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| Anime has not lost its ambition. People who say this only like to look at the nearest harem/ecchi esque show they feast their eyes on then generalize the state of anime to be that of crap. To understand why companies like to produce these "unoriginal" "generic" "crap" shows [those words are so overused it's hypocritical] is so that they can make money and actually survive. They might even use that money to produce more business riskier adaptations or even their own original anime. Notable examples of anime which shows anime has not lost its ambition[From 2015]: -Death Parade (My favorite, absolutely brilliant and it's original. Unfortunately it did not receive well in Japan) -Kekkai Sensen -Plastic Memories -Gintama -Gakkougurashi -One Punch Man None of these would be considered your typical ecchi/harem/unoriginal anime crap people deem. To be honest, I think originality is overrated because it's about how you choose to execute a concept instead of trying to make something new [which doesn't automatically make it good]. And it's not easy either. Some of these adapted anime are a balance between making something that is already popular to ensure sucess but still adapting something that is a good show. That's probably what anime strives for. Both success and making something worth being proud about. No matter what year it is, the people behind anime are always working to produce something good. Be it through funding their good stuff with more popular bad stuff or otherwise. |
| “Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth. But the world isn't perfect, and the law is incomplete..." -Alphonse Elric "Then and now, what I protect has never changed!" -Sakata Gintoki I'll take anything like The Pet Girl of Sakurasou. Anything as good as that. |
| I don't think that's the case at large. There might be less ambition in certain genres like cyberpunk, but there's a large variety of shows pretty much every season and a ageneral atmosphere of being able to produce all kinds of shows. While it's true that there are a lot of shows with literally zero artistic ambition the quantity of those doesn't matter as long as we're getting more and a larger variety of more substantial anime at the same time. There are 10x more TV shows airing each season compared to the 90s so there's enough room for cheap entertainment AND shows that try to be more. And that's what we're getting. Not to mention that even within some supposedly stale or repetitive genres you can sometimes see patterns of internal criticism and experimentation over time. The article quoted that one line at the top: "Anime that’s trying to be like previous hits can never surpass the originals." This doesn't imply that taking a stance and being aware of the predecessors can't be a vital factor in surpassing those predecessors. Trying to create something completely original unrelated to anything before is borderline impossible and also not necessary to achieve that goal. Most of the iconic shows from 10 or 20 or 30 years ago also have their predecessors. But it's easy to just focus on a common element (like isekai) and throw all anime that fit that bill under the 'derivative same-ish crap' rug instead of trying to see if there's some kind of evolution within whatever the most popular subgenre is at the moment. Because the truth is, mediums are never really stale. It's a constant process of adapting and innovating and in retrospect you can usually see how fluid those developments are even if they seemed stale at the time. Because what might subjectively seem like an eternity while it's happening is in reality only a handful of seasons which is nowhere near enough to talk about changes or the lack of them withing the medium. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Is kind of hard to say for me. I look at KyoAni and say "ohh boy the most aesthetic moe show of the season" and yet they are so fucking talented at using the medium. The story might be another generic ecchi and yet the care they put in the visual department is astonishing. The scenary details, the movement, the corporal language, the use of light, they are pretty good. Madhouse is also really good at this department. And then I remember the shows that used the medium not to entertain but to convey something more are more common in the previous decades, those who fascinated me because their purpose wasn't pure entertainment. Ping Pong does it with admiration, Barakamon does it with surpassing mediocrity, Tatami Galaxy does it for attitude, and these 3 have their unique ways to present it too. That's just me though, the peak of the entertainment of the good shows for me in this decade is lower than the shows in the 2000 or the 90's ( I've low experience with 80's shows). There's the fact than the decade isn't over yet, so we could get another "Evangelion levels of impact" show in the next years. With the tools that improved productivity in the medium variety is not a big issue: otaku can be contemp when they get their fix of entertainment and it's possible that another huge show comes around. It's hard to tell, but for me it's not that it lost it's ambition, since KyoAni, Madhouse and David Productions are still out there, but the bar has been getting lower for every year. TL:DR |
 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye.But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..................... |
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| i am so missing something new with adult characters... |
| Every time period has shit. The question is, at which time was the shit the shittiest? Answer this, and there's no need to have this discussion any more. |
Sakuraoka said: You should.i am so missing something new with adult characters... These moeblobs ruining my chinese animu... |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
Cabron said: Sakuraoka said: You should.i am so missing something new with adult characters... These moeblobs ruining my chinese animu... small and cute is nice but some variety would be good too |
| I think she has a point. There seems to be a lot more mediocre, cookie-cutter shows now than there used to be, but unique and ambitious titles like Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu are still being made. |
| The backlash against unique art styles (Kill la Kill, Ping Pong) makes me think that making ultra-generic anime (at least visually) is the safest bet. |
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| #QualityTopic Nice m8 ;) to me, yes.......and....no. in the end, it's just her opinion. but i kinda know what she meant. in term of story....i think it's still the same thing for a certain genre *cough*Harem*cough*. tbh, i don't know what kind of anime which was made in 90's and 80's nor i like it just because for one reason; animation quality. so i don't really know which one is better in terms of the storywriting. but it terms of quality and soundtrack, i think it's better than the 90's and 80's. imo, anime nowdays still lacks with creativity in the story. the story has a lot of potential but they wasted it because of various reasons. i think they just need to improve that. for the animation and other stuff are already great as it is. |
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TheFilthyCasual said: I don't understand why they make them do this. They're not bad actresses, but they keep being directed to make these horrific, unnatural squeaky voices that no human being would ever speak with, like the director doesn't WANT them to sound like people. I think the more relevant "they" is the Japanese audience, not the directors. DmonHiro said: Care to give some examples of these experimental shows being pumped out left and right with huge production values? Cause I don't remember many of those. The "medicine seller" stories by Nakamura Kenji for one ("Bake Neko," the final arc of Ayakashi Samurai Horror Tales and its sequel Mononoke) How about Madhouse's Oh! Edo Rocket based on a stage play by the screenwriter for Kill la Kill and Gurren Lagann? Iso Mitsuo's Dennou Coil with its extraordinary mix of story and animation? Ever wonder why Iso has left the industry? I do and suspect it's related to the issues discussed here. Kamiyama Kenji's beautifully illustrated Seirei no Moribito Akane Kazuki's Noein Black Lagoon is an adaptation and more commercial than the ones above, but it, too, was pretty distinctive. Bartender was another adaptation that we'd never see today. Most of the characters are well over thirty and some are in their sixties like me. All of these were released in 2006-2007. |
SeijiSensei said: All of these were released in 2006-2007. 2011: Hourou Musuko, Hyouge Mono, Showa Monogatari, Mawaru Penguindrum, Chihayafuru, 2012: Thermae Romae, Nichijou, Kyousougiga, Tsuritama, Fujiko Mine, Sakamichi No Apolon, Space Brothers, Shin Sekai Yori, 2013: Chihayafuru 2, Mayou Maou Yuusha, Otona Joshi No Anime Time, Danchi Toomo, Katanagatari, Aku No Hana, Gathcaman Crowds, Uchoten Family, Stop acting like only the 2000s had experimental shows. You sound like one of those "back in my days" people, and nobody likes those. |
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DmonHiro said: SeijiSensei said: All of these were released in 2006-2007. 2011: Hourou Musuko, Hyouge Mono, Showa Monogatari, Mawaru Penguindrum, Chihayafuru, 2012: Thermae Romae, Nichijou, Kyousougiga, Tsuritama, Fujiko Mine, Sakamichi No Apolon, Space Brothers, Shin Sekai Yori, 2013: Chihayafuru 2, Mayou Maou Yuusha, Otona Joshi No Anime Time, Danchi Toomo, Katanagatari, Aku No Hana, Gathcaman Crowds, Uchoten Family, Stop acting like only the 2000s had experimental shows. You sound like one of those "back in my days" people, and nobody likes those. He never did. What the fuck, do people like to witchhunt people that like old shows too? You even failed to notice that SeijiSensei is not OP. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
Wensbane said: Let's keep it civil, people. @Mamster-P I don't think they've run out of ideas just yet. They're probably just afraid those ideas won't sell. Gotta stay afloat somehow... not exactly an easy task these days. yet people won't acknowledge this.... you spend all this time and money on something unique and people still complain or it doesn't sell, its a huge risk making "fanservice/generic shows/copy paste" shows or w/e you wanna call them, keeps the balance and gives the shows that stand out a better chance to shine as well as sell something is only original ONCE... then once the bandwagon happens it becomes just another one. people should stop pointing fingers at those who just give people what they generally want and probably enjoy making themselves, thats just how media works |
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| Also, I would like to add that visually anime has never been more ambitious than it has been since 2008. There is way more visual diversity in artstyles and visual direction now than there has ever been: Of course, each of the major studios each have their general artstyles - Shaft goes for a somewhat "avant garde" look, Kyoani has a high-production "cutesy" look, Trigger has a westernised look, Madhouse let their directors experiment with lots of different artstyles and the list goes on. Each of the major anime from each season will also likely have complete different looks to them. Kill la Kill looks different from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, which looks different from Ping Pong The Animation which in turn looks a lot different from One Punch Man etc. etc. At the same time you still get a lot of experimental avant-garde stuff from budding directors like Kaiba, Kyousougiga, Mononoke etc. In comparison, the vast majority of 80's anime for example have the same gritty "80's" look, which of course is fine and generally does look really cool, but there weren't as many shows willing to take risks in visual direction back then as there are now. |
Mamster-P said: people should stop pointing fingers at those who just give people what they generally want and probably enjoy making themselves, thats just how media works They would stop pointing fingers if people generally wanted good stuff. Shame most are contemp with "ok" at best, including the producers, since that's what sells in the end. making "fanservice/generic shows/copy paste" shows or w/e you wanna call them, keeps the balance and gives the shows that stand out a better chance to shine as well as sell I mean, it's obvious you will see balance with low standars, after all, everything is good with low enough standars. A shame shows like Shinsekai Yori didn't shine comercially even though it shines as an anime. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| @KoreaWS its called human nature, your average person doesn't give a shit about anything more than being entertained by easy entertainment. blood, gore, fighting, explosions, muscles, tits, ass, cuteness and bright colors are all fanservice.... and that's all people generally need to be entertained more people are likely to see a generic superhero film like batman vs superman than they would some oscar worthy movie. people need to get over that and just be happy when they get their "unique" material we can't just deny human instinct as many of us seem to like to |
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| @Mamster-P So most people are dumb? That's what I'm saying with the previous post. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
KoreaWS said: @Mamster-P So most people are dumb? That's what I'm saying with the previous post. im not even going to respond to this shitty bait, ill reply when you have an actual response |
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Mamster-P said: KoreaWS said: @Mamster-P So most people are dumb? That's what I'm saying with the previous post. im not even going to respond to this shitty bait, ill reply when you have an actual response ill reply when you have an actual response then |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| I would say no. Anime is too diverse to make such a general statement. Obviously since more anime are coming out, there will be a lot of uncreative anime, but at the same time, there are still many great anime coming out for the same reason. Especially considering there are great anime with a lot of ambition that has released somewhat recently like grimgar, rokka no yuusha, kekkai sensen, sound euphonium, etc |
| Grimgar season 2 please!!!! |
jirachi3x said: I would say no. Anime is too diverse to make such a general statement. Obviously since more anime are coming out, there will be a lot of uncreative anime, but at the same time, there are still many great anime coming out for the same reason. Especially considering there are great anime with a lot of ambition that has released somewhat recently like grimgar, rokka no yuusha, kekkai sensen, sound euphonium, etc people act as if an increase in generic content means a decrease in unique, well guess what, somethings only original ONCE there was a time when these "generic" anime would've been considered original, but once everyone starts to copy them they start calling those shows generic there weren't 40 anime coming out a season in the past so obviously there weren't as many generic shows, you can't mass produce media and not have a ton of them be the same |
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NNick said: Still didn't watch Mr. Robot to know what type of show you mean with it but there's plenty of hentai :DHere's a thought for you people to ponder. If anime is so diverse and has everything for everyone, tastes or preferences - how come there's barely anything for a person like me who loves watching shows like Game Of Thrones and Mr Robot? Just naming 2 tv series doesn't say anything about you. You want serious and mature anime or what? |
zalMay 25, 2016 4:05 PM
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Modern anime is fine A few worthwhile shows come out every season A lot of meh and shit comes out every season too But it's basically the same as in the good olden days, there's just more shows now Anime was "better" in the olden days when FMA was airing otherwise everything is just as shit and you should be wondering why you're still watching. |
| every single one of my forum posts is dumb and invalid except for 1, I don't claim them it was a different person it was all fake |
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