Would you stop a suicider?

Deago said:
If a suicider was pointing a gun at his head; would you AT LEAST TRY to stop him/her?

AltoRoark said:
My buddy @TheBrainintheJar is well known for these topics.

My answer, it sucks when people die, so my instinct will try to stop them from doing it. I want to hopefully give them a helping hand in life. That's the kind of person I wanna be. I've had suicidal thoughts before. And now, I'm glad I didn't go that path. But then again, my situations may not have been quite as extreme as these suicidal people.

Oneesanismywaifu said:
If it's a stranger, no.
If it's someone I know and appreciate, of course I would at least try to stop them.

Dimethylanime said:
It makes me sad when I see people saying they wouldn't stop the person. People who commit suicide don't actually want to die, they want help from their problems. And
Of course I'd try to stop them and try to ensure that they got some help.

TheBrainintheJar said:


Isn't it a little dangerous to think for others what they really want?

Dimethylanime said:

Im not 100% sure what you're asking, but if it's about me wrongly assuming that people who try to commit suicide want to get help and live...
It's not an assumption. I know. no one actually wants to die, they just want to live a happy life:) if you meet a suicidal person who doesn't want to live a happy successful life, lmk bc I'be never heard of that anime
Also, I think that even if somehow the person did actually want to die/not get help, why would I let them die? There would be people who care about them who would want me to save them. And I would feel so guilty for the rest of my life, knowing that I let someone die. Even if I wasn't directly involved.

Dimethylanime said:

Im not 100% sure what you're asking, but if it's about me wrongly assuming that people who try to commit suicide want to get help and live...
It's not an assumption. I know. no one actually wants to die, they just want to live a happy life:) if you meet a suicidal person who doesn't want to live a happy successful life, lmk bc I'be never heard of that anime
Also, I think that even if somehow the person did actually want to die/not get help, why would I let them die? There would be people who care about them who would want me to save them. And I would feel so guilty for the rest of my life, knowing that I let someone die. Even if I wasn't directly involved.

steyn1001 said:


Snip

TheBrainintheJar said:

Isn't it a little dangerous to think for others what they really want?

TheBrainintheJar said:

If you think suicidal people don't really want to die, you haven't talked to suicidal people.

TheBrainintheJar said:


If you think suicidal people don't really want to die, you haven't talked to suicidal people.

Ever been to alt.suicide.holiday or Sanctioned Suicide? This is where suicidal people talk WITHOUT censorship and the truth is, they want to die.

The only reason I'm alive is because all the suicide methods available to me are horrible.

So what if people get hurt after a person's suicide? How does it make it any less of their right to kill themselves? What makes life so good? Remember: There is only suffering if you're alive. Being dead means not needing to be happy and not being able to suffer.

Dimethylanime said:

As for your second point, I generally have a "majority rules" mentality. The suicidal person may be relieved of their suffering, but everyone who cares about them will be left behind to carry even more sadness. I don't think that's fair.

55Snakes said:

You do realize those people who "care about them" are probably responsible for the suicidal person's suffering? At the very least they failed to help, since the person committed suicide.

Dimethylanime said:

Oh, I see. Thank you for informing me. I haven't been to either of those places. My rationale was based off of myself/anyone else that I've spoken to.
Still, while there may be suicidal people who really do want to die, if I was watching a person try to kill him/herself, I would still try to stop them because I'd be unable to differentiate as to whether they really did want to die or if they just wanted help. Again, the guilt would just be too much for me, even if the person really did want to end their life.
As for your second point, I generally have a "majority rules" mentality. The suicidal person may be relieved of their suffering, but everyone who cares about them will be left behind to carry even more sadness. I don't think that's fair.

TheBrainintheJar said:


So if 100 guys will be hurt by not having sex, is their rape of a girl justified?

Here's a tip: If someone is in the process of suicide, only talk to them. Never, ever use force. Don't choose for them whether to live or die. This is NOT your life.

TheBrainintheJar said:

If you think suicidal people don't really want to die, you haven't talked to suicidal people.

Winter-Sonata said:


The amount of ignorance in this statement is outstanding. Though judging by your username I'm not sure if your attempt
is a bad joke.

Don't speak for other people as I have known plenty that felt this way mmk? You don't even
know the first thing about suicidal thoughts if you're going to be bold enough to post that.

Live in the real world for a bit and build actual connections before thinking you understand the emotions of how different people operate. I've had to personally interview those for my career focus that had suffered from that hardship and its nothing even close to what you're trying to state. There are those who choose suicide as a means of "I don't want to but I feel like I have no choice but to give up". You are also leaving out irrational emotions that are triggered by anxiety and stress that create false thoughts on wanting to die.

No offense, but it sounds like to me you've only been talking to yourself than really hearing people out on this.

Dimethylanime said:
Key word: generally. I don't think that's a probable scenario, and there are other ways to handle it that don't include raping someone.
oh... idk if I've been misunderstanding the question this entire time. I wouldn't use force to stop a suicidal person. I would only talk to them to convince them out of it. Not sure if that really changes your opinion though. Let's agree to disagree, and hopefully neither of us is ever faced with such a terrible, horrific scenario in which someone was trying to commit suicide in front of us.

Spooks said:


I agree



Please don't speak for all of us. as a near two timer and life long depressive with some disorders. I certainly didn't want to die. Most people want to simply be out of the life, body, situation they have. I couldn't get out of my situation because it was internalized disorders that would be with me no matter what. You think if i didn't have them and had a shot at feeling normal and living a normal happier life I'd still want to die. Death was the only opinion given to the option less. A genie tells you he can fix whats wrong with you or change your life I bet most would take that over "nah sorry I'd rather still die"

People suicide to escape what is to them an inescapable situation or in case of depressives because the depression fucks up their thought process and mood and makes them so crippling depressed its painful to be alive. I didn't even want to try those times but the decision was taken out of my hands because I wasn't in sound mind I didn't have full control over my actions or thoughts. You better believe I didn't want it but I was betrayed by my own mind, made to think I did.

If someone really wants to actively do it, they do it. People who fail or say they want to suicide but never actually do it. Don't actually want it, they desperately want someone or something to offer them any other out that lets them still live. Thats why they hold on or continue to suffer, holding out for any other option because deep down they know its worth it.

and a large amount of survivors go on to be glad they didn't succeed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1nlpfa/people_who_attempted_suicide_5_years_ago_are_you/

TheBrainintheJar said:

I base what I say on reading tons of suicidal people's OWN words in alt.suicide.holiday and Sanctioned Suicide - places where suicidal people can speak freely without their desire to die being demonized.

TheBrainintheJar said:

"If someone really wants to actively do it, they do it." - Do you know why I'm still alive? It's because I can't die right now. I don't have the proper means of suicide. Many on ASH and Sanctioned Suicide are in the same situation. We either don't have the methods or the strength to do it.

TheBrainintheJar said:

Depression doesn't fuck up your thoughts. It's a part of your reality. The idea that depressive people aren't 'in sound mind' and therefore can't consent to living is a step away from 'depressive people can't consent to anything else, hooray!".

TheBrainintheJar said:

The difference between you and me is that if you don't want to die, you have support. If you do want to die, you're completely alone.

Winter-Sonata said:
You are also leaving out irrational emotions that are triggered by anxiety and stress that create false thoughts on wanting to die.

No offense, but it sounds like to me you've only been talking to yourself than really hearing people out on this.

Spooks said:


You talk like a forum with a specific focus is any sign of the whole. You go to a purely feminist site do they represent everyone's views? those sites are designed around echoing a certain opinion and attract people who share it. You go to any suicide prevention forum and you'll see a whole different lot of suicidal people wanting to carry on with life looking for support from other forum users. Thats what a support forum is for. You'll deny these suicidal people exist because you have existed in a bias environment of similar opinion. Not on purpose im sure we're all drawn to forums of similar opinions but if we stay too long we tend to get so re-affirmed in our thinking that we deny anything outside it.

Not saying people of a certain view point are wrong or don't exist just that you're focusing on one view and gathering of similar minds and ignoring the external people who don't share the same views. You wish to speak for all depressives/people related to suicide but you don't maybe you speak for people of similar view and mind but thats not all of us. Do not deny us, regardless of specific clicks, all of us exist under the umbrella of connection to suicide but we do not have to share the same views on it.



Hardly a strong ground to be encouraging others that suicide is literally the best option then is it. A cult leader who advocates his followers drink the poison but doesn't see enough reason to do so himself clearly doesn't believe his own words. Metaphorically speaking of course.

If suicide is truly the best path out, that its a good thing that people shouldn't talk people out of it. That people should "embrace" suicide then things like not having a perfect choice way out or not enough strength wouldn't be an issue. If you find reason to live, shouldn't encourage others not to. Doing that is literally the worst.

If someone honestly feels it within them that been dead is far better than been a live in that moment you give them a cliff and they'll jump. Someone who still considers living or that their suffering is manageable and they won't jump or they'll find a way to avoid it.

Fear of it is a great message that internally something still considers living preferable, that you want to live and cling to life. Its why people listen to it. The feelings of wanting to die been unable to overpower the fear of it means theres still hope internally for that person, they're not beyond the point. You can deny those thoughts but your feelings are honest.



Please stop speaking as if you know everything there is. You're one person, one experience.

You don't speak for the depressed or suicidal or the professionals that Ive seen or the other people Ive had to listen to in group therapy over the years. Depression is a mental disorder, its chemical based and yes it does interfere with your ability to think rationally it also floods individuals systems with negative chemical imbalances causing them to not be in sound mind. Regardless how much control someone has you cannot argue that their thoughts are the same as someone not suffering depression and that influence effects their decision making. I know I didn't get anorexic or stay in bed for two weeks outside my depression.

Trust me Ive spoken with people with far more education on the actual workings of depression than you or I.



Bullshit.

Support for those wanting to live is ass, total sweaty assholes. Mental health support is medieval still the only way most people can get people to take them seriously is to make an attempt in the first place. Otherwise they're looking at waiting lists and bullshit from people all through the process. People who want to die don't need a support system you want to die you actually do it. nobody can stop someone committing suicide unless they failed the first time. They don't need no pro death support system to off themselves. Someone who feels they really want to die, that its better than living don't wait around for a doctor to give them a lethal injection. as you said right once you're dead what does it matter. the suicidal hardly care about their way out and more actually getting out. Its why people blow their heads off, jump from buildings and overdose. They don't wait for someone to give them the none painful soft way out. They only care about getting life over with to escape the pain of living. Thats the whole point of suicide getting out of life anyway you can because living has become too hard, painful or impossible to face. Its not some casual waiting room. Suicide is intense the only opinion when there are no other options. People don't get to wait around for the ideal suicide to show up or get up on a morning and think to themselves "hmm do I suicide today? nah that films out I want to see.".

If the pain of living doesn't over-ride someones fear of dying then clearly they still want to live and don't value suicide or been dead as highly as they think. Or just don't admit it.
People cling to life, its what they do. Its what they should do, no shame in that.

Let me tell thee a storee.

The most cringy painful never do that ever way of suicide I thought on over the years was cutting the wrists. It made me wince in cringe just thinking about it. I couldn't even imagine it. Never ever ever would I do it.

Fast forward a number of years and I nearly did it, exactly that way. Because it had reached a real point where living didn't outweigh avoiding having to live that way by killing myself at that point thats the only opinion i had and i was going to take it because my "personal suicide preference" was bullshit next to just getting out, getting it over with. when you truly reach a point where death is preferable to living how you do it doesn't mean much at all. You don't get to be picky. Been picky just means it hasn't reached the point where its necessary yet.

It may be a surprise but I used to share your views to the letter. for a number of years we would be saying the same things. Now I advocate for people to survive, to not do it. Not in all cases, case by case there are sometimes suicide is preferable but those are those cases. Most of the time its not preferable even if they feel it is at the time.



Also this guy speaks the truth and is a vital piece of information on this type of thing.
Depression and mental disorders do create strong negative suicidal thoughts that are easier to manage when the depression lowers or people start medicating. By that point 90% of them agree they're glad they didn't do it now they can control it better. Hence back to not totally sound mind their thought patterns are hijacked by extreme chemical imbalances.

Does societies views on suicide need updating YEA the shaming for it has to stop, people need to understand why people who do do it, do it and its not because of weakness but theres a difference between understanding, acceptance and encouragement.

Society needs to understand if and when it happens we DO NOT need to encourage suicide. We just need better support systems to help people.

Welp....thats pretty much all I have on the subject, beyond this I'd just be re-iterating the same points.

Soo......

TKotarou said:
Yes I would, In a heartbeat. Especially if that's someone I know.

TheBrainintheJar said:



Why is it that love makes us entitled to other people's lives, and disregard their rights?

Love has led us astray.

TheBrainintheJar said:

Unlike suicide prevention forums, ASH/SancSuicide don't rely on censorship to reinforce their ideas. They rely on arguments. So yes, they're more trustworthy and accurate.

TheBrainintheJar said:

Do you literally tell others what they think right now?

TheBrainintheJar said:
Survival instinct ISN'T rational. It's just a glitch in your genes that prevents you from doing what you want.

TheBrainintheJar said:

No, this fear isn't proof these people want to live. The proof these people want to live is whether they want to live or not. THEY decide whether they want to, not you.

TheBrainintheJar said:

'Suicide is easy', myth. If it were easy, suicide methods wouldn't be discussed all over the internet.

TheBrainintheJar said:
You are not in any position to judge whether someone should live or die.

Spooks said:


Wrong. A push for pro suicide hive mentality among a group constantly reaffirming a single position is just the same as censorship.




You lack self awareness its what you've been trying to do every reply tell others how they are supposed to feel, summing up a whole group of people based on your views and the people you've met in places that ATTRACT similar people with those thoughts. They do not represent the whole. I didn't deny those types you're the one telling people how everyone is supposed to think and feel and flat out denying other peoples experiances and encounters that don't subscribe to your thinking which.....:



You're thought process is the irrational you're arguing a fringe idea and philosophy as objective fact. The idea that you deny the survival instinct as having objective and rational reasons for being shows me that its you're views that do not subscribe to reality.



Yeah because thats not exactly the same thing. They obviously decide they want to live because their over-riding fear outweighs their want to die so they choose to keep living. Also whats with this "you don't decide" none sense, im using that argument on you. Not the other way around it doesn't work because im not telling you how people all think and feel. I'm telling you you're IGNORING how others in similar situations think and feel.

You're the one going around telling people "no thats not how suicidal people are" "no you're wrong thats not how it is" "no suicidal people feel like this and think this because I say so" I never denied your line of thinking or that people may share it I said not everyone shares it. Im giving you accounts and personal proof that no not everyone thinks the same as you just because they face a similar situation. You're the one denying others thoughts. So you don't get to use that silly argument.



That stupid.

Again you're an advocate of an extreme philosophy and you seem to possess a mental illness in which you see life as an illness and think everyone regardless whats happening of been able to get a lethal injection whenever they want. Thats not an insult but more a diagnosis and you're projecting that extreme belief formed from a very personal philosophy onto the rest of the world. Using a forum for and attracting like minded individuals as evidence to back it up that your answer is right for everyone.

I'm telling you its not, in fact its kind of crazy and thats not the man or learned ignorance talking thats a sane view of the world that life is not an illness, death is not to be embraced at the drop of a hat and the survival instinct isn't a "glitch" and I know you support the idea of unfair birth that parents shouldn't be allowed to give life unconsenting. Its your right to have those views but they're not the rest of the world. So right back at you hun:



and you don't represent the worlds depressed, mentally ill or suicidal. Deal with that. You certainly don't represent me, or the people on the forums ive used, the people in the help groups who sought it out not forced like you probably imagine 'that society forces the depressed and suicidal not to die' no they want to live and be happy and move through they seek help to keep fighting. discrediting them is an insult. You don't represent any of the thousands upon thousands who do not share your philosophy but have faced mental illness, suicide attempts and depression.

your opinions will not change with this I know this. I could present as many people from as many groups Ive attended, could present any person Ive met and it would never be enough to convince you otherwise. You have internalized your philosophy and made outside views antagonists and threats. You have sought out and surrounded yourself with re-affirmation. These are natural defenses of the human mind protecting an idea it has built a shell around. I know why people do this so I won't be trying to convince you or argue with you on this matter. I just felt the need to represent all the people who disagree, someone speaking for all is a dangerous thing when the speaking is of extremes.

This is a topic I simply don't fool around with. One careless word to a curious ear can cause irreversible damage. Your opinions and views are your right but I'm not the one going around telling potentially vulnerable young people that killing themselves is the right answer. Such one sided extremes must be countered. I had no choice. Now that the counter is here balance is restored and my duty to those who are where I was feels fulfilled.



We shan't be speaking on this subject again.

TheBrainintheJar said:


It also sucks when people reject you sexually. Yet I don't see how these people aren't allowed to reject you. It's their bodies and no one should have sex against their will.

No one should live against their will. I'm sorry it offends others, but people need to get over their entitlement complex. It's not YOUR life.