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1. Do you remember the line where matoko goes "we haven't really talked much before?"
Through time leaping, Matoko finally got see chiaki for who he really is.
There's numerous scenes in the movie where she refuses to talk much about chiaki or claims she doesn't know him very well.
Matoko came out strong in the end because she knew of Chiaki's fate. And she also had the chance to intercept the girls going for Kousuke. But who did she choose? At this point she could have went either way.

This was pretty clear in the movie (huge portion of the movie was about this). I don't think anyone can take your opinion seriously if you failed to catch this.



2. Most stories tend to have plot holes.

Chiaki not going back before he lost the time leaping device is not so distracting. So much is unknown about the rules of his era. and the device.
Also the limitations that comes with it.
Only thing we know about the future era is, the art piece was destroyed. The rule is if they tell someone in the past about time leap they receive some sort of punishment.

And that's not a lot of information.

So with that in mind, i just left that off as it is. For one its not distracting and two, there is probably some reason behind it.
And it's not a hard find, i'm pretty sure at least one person in the animation studio/editors would have pointed out, if it was unintentional.

As for chiaki's last line.
Its about seeing Matoko in the future. Reason is in the "unanswered questions" thread.

1. Denial, She settled for second choice no matter how u look at it, she had no choice on the interception of the girl because

a-) she ran out of time leaps
b-) whatever the guys name was didn't feel for her
c-) she was not going to get him to **** her because the story depends on her not getting the guy, the author wanted the extra half-hour to make it a story.

In simple terms, the story was not going to end at that point so the author/director forced the character and events as such for plot progression. Thats why I dont consider this a great movie (just a bit less than gd, gave it a 7 but wish there was a 6.5 option).

2. Yes ALL series have plot holes (so does real life if you look at it in a certain way >.>;;) but this had more OBVIOUS, HUGE, and SENSELESS plot holes than FOX news. That is the difference, if u read my post i said i usually dont mind or pay attention to plot holes however this went a bit over the limit.

^
From the first 5 min into the film we start to see foreshadowing of Matoko and Chiaki's relation. (Be it the science lab, the subject science itself, etc).

And in the end, Matoko used the last leap to revert it back to when it all started.

At that point Matoko had the choice to go both ways.
1. Confess to Yuri -> Chiaki
2. Intercept the girls trying to confess to Kousuke.

i don't think you have much experience in love. You seem to think Matoko came to the conclusion that Kousuke doesn't like her b/c of that incident on the baseball field (If i got a girlfriend you would be alone). But ANYONE would respond in that manner, unless it was a confession.


Matoko's small crush of Kousuke comes from her liking the feature "taking care of others." But she had a problem with Kousuke that he did this equally to everyone.

Now through time leap you can see Chiaki coming to Matoko's rescue several times, and even shielding her. Looking out for her more extensively than Kousuke.
But you can tell Chiaki did this only for Matoko (take a note on how he threw the shoe at that guy).

In this manner, Matoko's ideal feature is satisfied by Chiaki not Kousuke.
Gradually that is. Each incident is powerful.

Before this Matoko didn't like Chiaki because she hardly knew much about Chiaki. Which can be further confirmed through conversations with Yuri like saying "i don't know him much."
Only through time leap was Matoko able to discover Chiaki for who he truly is.
Why through time leap? *Hint hint.

And in the final stage, when chiaki uses his last time leap, out of Matoko's tears. And his confession in that frozen time, -> Matoko falls for him hard.


This is a very logical sequence.
Matoko's drive -> Assumed to be Kousuke.
= realized it wasn't
Gradually Matoko realizes, Matoko's drive = Chiaki's character



Regarding kousuke being a small crush is pretty obvious.

1. When matoko hears about the girl's story (w/ grandmother) about Kousuke. There is not much defense. She is actually amazed by her determination and encourages her.

2. Confused about liking him, being a frank character she wasn't able to give a direct response to the aunt. When she speaks frankly about everything with her aunt. This was the point, "do i really like him?"

3. Matoko's time of recovery from the dissapointment.


Why is this "short crushes" happening? Is is farfetched?
Not really. This is a common occurrence in highschool. Without knowing the person we take one of their main traits and let the fantasy run the rest. It is time of emotional growth where opposite sex appeal starts blooming. There is a LOT of conflicting emotions.

You should see the phenomenon happening in your highschool by now. If your DOB is correct that is.

Love, relation can only be succesfully grown if one realizes that one does not KNOW much about the significant other. Thinking they know everything about the significant other leads, to well. divorce, break up, etc.



What plot holes are you talking about? These OBVIOUS, HUGE and SENSELESS plot holes, I was not able to see. Can you please elaborate deeply into this topic.

b/c seeing how polished this work is, i doubt the existence of such thing, (and somehow got through all those animators, editors, etc for a project that goes on for a year or more) but i could be wrong.

If its about why chiaki didn't go back in time before he lost the walnut device, i already have that written on the other thread. And the fact you used plurals with "more" indicates there are at least 4 present.

^

hehe srry about the "more" conjunction in relation to plot holes, since my definition of a plot hole also consists of character inconsistencies (as in forced action on charaters by authors which should not have been present).

ok now, where do I start...



agree



also agree



here is where I have the problem, the word "NOT" means Kousuke did not satisfy this, when in fact he is the reason that this is there in the first place. That is why Makoto SETTLED for Chiaki when in fact she would have preferred kousuke.

This is obvious as she rejects chiaki multiple times, and if I am correct this is after the fire hydrate (or something like that with that one kid that got bullied on) incident, thus the argument on makoto preferring chiaki is wrong.



"Hurr Durr. I'm a stupid teenager that falls in love for no apparent reason. Hurr Durr"

Yes most teenager are like that but dont even no what love really is, maybe the forced act I am assuming is actually makoto being a stupid teenager (who STILL settles for second choice), which is by all means not justification on why people should like this movie. (and yeah, it is my real DOB ^_^!)



I wish it was >.>

More like:

Matoko's drive -> Was Kousuke and his personality
Kousuke doesnt feel towards makoto
Chaiki (i wish I knew the similar equation code) = adequate kousuke (yet still not kousuke)

Gradually Matoko realizes, Matoko's drive = not achieving kousuke

Thus = settle for chaiki



but the crush on chiaki is even smaller for (according to ur argument) makoto settles chiaki for his similar ability to kousuke's ability to care (again makoto still rejects chiaki after him demonstrating his caringness <- I know that is not a word but go with it)







Read other posts in the thread, many people saw plot holes and they still loved the anime, I am not going to go back a couple of pages but one person said the manga covers the plot holes however i treat the manga and anime as separate entities

So ultimately I still wonder why people like this, Its about a confused girl who goes "Hurr Durr IMA TIME JUMPZ" all over the place and "I LIKEz THIS onez guy but he dont like me so IMA SETTLE FOR CHIAKI since theyz similarz and what not", the fact that chaiki went back to the past to see a painting is

a-) stupid
b-) messes with time continuum and its common to travel to the past, there are no other time travelers or anything; the future society is like "here u guyz go travel into past and no bad shit will happen"

The story is inappropriate, characters are retarded and these 2 aspects are what make an anime a gd anime



last on a personal level, if u are in love with a person u do not know then it is not love with that person but with ur ideal of that person, that is why divorce happens; once a person sees his/her partner for who he truly is.

It is the cases that can withstand this and know of one another lovingly is what true love is to me. Now whether this silly ideal of mine is possible is another question.

I think this is pretty much dead topic now. At least for me. You seem to think people create "needs" for others. Look up Maslow and study what Needs are and How they work. Which may explain the fallacies in your posts. (make sure to not look up the outdated one... )

People can contribute it to certain extend if they are replacement of parental figure in early childhood and stuff. But friends during middle school? Development stage has already passed.



I thought I was pretty clear on this.
Matoko falls for Chiaki gradually.
and she falls for him hard in the final scene. "The Realization" Rather. Typically, a person is not conscious of being in love from the start.

It's a gradual process. I think you have to read about the chemistry of love.
This becomes a slower process if there are conflicting issues present. (eg. friendship)


Teenagers are confused about their feelings. Not stupid. Please choose your diction more carefully. Confusion and stupidity are very different.

B/c atm, Your way of talking about love sounds like the structure of dating sim game.
Very mechanical and hastily generalized.

It doesn't work like that in reality. People's words often don't coincide with their true feelings. Especially if its a cluster, people tend to run away.





How is traveling back in time to see a painting stupid? I find that comment very ignorant and an insult to the artists out there.

Rest of the stuff you wrote in that paragraph is totally subjective, and your opinion backed up by nothing but personal feeling is.. well worth nothing really.


Oh yes please elaborate deeply on the character inconsistencies.


idk what you are saying in your last paragraph.

I don't think you got what i was trying to imply in my last message.


But frankly in the end, unless you bring ideas that are fully researched and backed up, i don't think i'll be responding to your comments in this length. Your last comment made this pretty clear.
No offense but if you have constant misconceptions about the basic principles of human psychology and sociology... well I'm not here to teach a course (not even getting paid). B/c at this rate i would have to start from scratch.

^yeah the topics dead and I'm done

At the end though, I think I understand more truth than you do. What you understand is only your ideal and your own truth. It is you who is ignorant because I know where your post comes from and I understand it clearly, however it is you who does not give the effort to see where mine comes from. Good Day.

(btw I am a huge fan of art whether it be modern, classical, etc..., I even used to paint as a child and have many paintings, still yeah it is stupid to travel all the way to the past to see a painting that you have never seen, so don't be calling ignorant for who you don't know and have not even made the effort)

i didn't really call you ignorant, i said the comment was but, you can think w/e you want.
there is no idealism (not pointed out, yet again...) in my argument and you do not really have a point b/c you never backed up anything so far with strong facts.
I did make an effort to understand, hence i wrote several long posts.
But what I got was not the flaw of my theory, but you misunderstanding the premises of my theories. And you kinda built on that.

Being a college student I don't have time (nor do i want to) to go back to the basics of Maslow and others to elaborate each point. Reason being, it would triple the length of my already long posts.

But really... watch out for irony in your own post...
>ignorant b/c one is not willing to see other's POV
>Calling Chiaki's mission stupid, despite the fact his reason to go this far has not been revealed.
(of course this too is not backed up by anything. another subjective opinion based on personal experience)


Maybe you really did have a point. Whatever it was, it needs to be better executed. In a logical order, each point backed up with facts. I asked my literature major friend, sitting beside me right now to read your post. She got the same amount of info as I did.

^tl;dr

in short: best anime movie, even if supposed plot holes or character inconsistency still Toki wo Kakeru Shoujo FTW