Arsene_Lucifer said: iZZidane said: This is supposed to be an American film and there are millions of non-white Americans living in this country. White people aren't and shouldn't be the only ones representing this country, what about the rest of us that make up 40% of the population ? Mind you, this percentage is only growing by the day. So yes, whitewasing is definitely a problem. I see a lot of people here comparing GitS to the Attack on Titan movie but they aren't comparable at all given the circumstances, America and Japan are two different countries with completely different populace, Japan itself barely has any minorities so it makes perfect sense that they had an all Asian cast for AoT. America plays by different rules. You didn’t toss the word “yellowwashing” when describing Japan live action adaptation of Attack On Titan. Is it because you think that term would be considered racist? If so, you just tossed the term “whitewashing” which would be a contradiction if you do believe a term like “yellowwashing” to be racist. Yes, America does represent minorities which is why I could name you five Hollywood movies from the top of my head that star black actors in 2015, but I can’t name you a single film in 2015 from Japan starring a black actor even with the internet. If you’re going to only hold US accountable for representing minorities you should also criticize Japan for their lack of diversity in their film industry. You should be saying Japan should be more diverse in their film industry like Hollywood where leading roles were given the 40% (myself being part of statistics you just tossed out) at some point in time. As oppose to Japan where you’ll have a difficult time finding a single film starring a Black, or Hispanic actor. Yet, I could easily find a dozen films with, and without the help of the internet of Hollywood films that starred minorities. iZZidane, if you don’t hold other countries to the same standards in representing minorities in a region film industry you’re just simply cherry picking when to take an issue with something like this. If you actually did care about representation of minorities in films you wouldn’t have made an excuse for Japan for their live action Attack On Titan film, but criticize Hollywood doing the same as Japan did in their live action adaptation of Ghost In the Shell. Also, by what you posted in the thread, sounds like you want Asian to take the leading role in the US Ghost In the Shell adaptation. So by that logic, should the US remove Hikaru Nakamura, a Japanese born Chess Champion, from representing the US at the Chess Olympiad simply because he wasn't born in America? If you think the US should remove Hikaru Nakamura that will abide by what you want in the US Ghost In the Shell adaptations, but that would mean removing equal opportunity as it'll mean only US born citizens can represent the US in these kind of events. However, if you want the US to keep Hikaru Nakamura as a representative of the US in the Chess Olympiad, well that contradicts what you posted. http://www.chessdom.com/nakamura-krush-crowned-2015-u-s-chess-champions/ As I stated in my second paragraph, Japan is not a melting pot so the lack of ethnic diversity in their movie industry, which mirrors their population, is understandable. This obviously makes it very difficult for such country to include diversity in anything. America being the melting pot that it is does not have this excuse. If the Japanese population was made up of 60% Asians, 40% of other races and failed to represent the latter then I would be "tossing" the term yellowwashing as well. I'm not cherry picking, I just believe that two different countries with contrasting demographics should not be held to the same standards as they face completely different issues when it comes to stuff like this . |
iZZidane said: As I stated in my second paragraph, Japan is not a melting pot so the lack of ethnic diversity in their movie industry, which mirrors their population, is understandable. This obviously makes it very difficult for such country to include diversity in anything. America being the melting pot that it is does not have this excuse. This doesn’t refute what I said earlier. Arsene_Lucifer said: Yes, America does represent minorities which is why I could name you five Hollywood movies from the top of my head that star black actors in 2015, but I can’t name you a single film in 2015 from Japan starring a black actor even with the internet. If you’re going to only hold US accountable for representing minorities you should also criticize Japan for their lack of diversity in their film industry. You should be saying Japan should be more diverse in their film industry like Hollywood where leading roles were given the 40% (myself being part of statistics you just tossed out) at some point in time. As oppose to Japan where you’ll have a difficult time finding a single film starring a Black, or Hispanic actor. Yet, I could easily find a dozen films with, and without the help of the internet of Hollywood films that starred minorities. (Ironically) Just like how I wrote in my second paragraph, I said if you actually cared about representation of minorities in films you should hold other countries film industry to the same standards. However, you don’t care about diversity since you made excuses for Japan not including Europeans in their live action Attack On Titan films. If you also took Japan lack of diversity in general in their film industry into account you would actually believe in representation of minorities. You would have come across as someone who wants representation of minorities in general not just in a specific region. Yet, you don’t as you take an issue with an American production which cast a white woman to play a robot. So, if I included your logic behind the “whitewashing” in the casting choice for other ethnicities than actors like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Michael Fassbender, Will Smith, Rajinikanth, and so many other who aren’t Japanese are also guilty for incorrectly representing robots in films. With the response passage you imply that it’s cool that Japan doesn’t bother including diversity in their film industry (and country if you want to go that far) which rarely (if there’s any at all) has films starring Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, and other minorities. However, it’s not cool that Hollywood actually has films starring Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, and other minorities in their films. Think about this carefully; you’re condemning a film industry that actually has noticeable diversity as opposed to Japan where it’s non existent/impossible to find. If you actually value diversity, and representation of minorities in films Japan should be the source of your criticism for not bothering to represent minorities not Hollywood. iZZidane said: If the Japanese population was made up of 60% Asians, 40% of other races and failed to represent the latter then I would be "tossing" the term yellowwashing as well. You did not carefully the last paragraph in my reply. Arsene_Lucifer said: Also, by what you posted in the thread, sounds like you want Asian to take the leading role in the US Ghost In the Shell adaptation. So by that logic, should the US remove Hikaru Nakamura, a Japanese born Chess Champion, from representing the US at the Chess Olympiad simply because he wasn't born in America? If you think the US should remove Hikaru Nakamura that will abide by what you want in the US Ghost In the Shell adaptations, but that would mean removing equal opportunity as it'll mean only US born citizens can represent the US in these kind of events. However, if you want the US to keep Hikaru Nakamura as a representative of the US in the Chess Olympiad, well that contradicts what you posted. So with your reply that you would also hold Japan accountable if they had the same population then, well, I guess I should say it’s racist for implying the removal of a non American born citizen from representing the US in the Chess Olympiad simply because he was born in Japan. I included it in my response for a reason since Hikaru Nakamura isn’t a US born citizen, and the US is open minded enough to have a Japanese Chess player represent them in the Chess Olympiad. Yet, you take an issue with the country Hikaru Nakamura, a Japanese, who represents the US in the Chess Olympiad multiple times. Hikaru Nakamura representing the US destroyed your bold claim that only whites represent the US. iZZidane said: If the Japanese population was made up of 60% Asians, 40% of other races and failed to represent the latter then I would be "tossing" the term yellowwashing as well. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html Here’s my source for my counter argument where you will see Whites almost make up 80% of the populace in the US. Right here, you deliberately want an Asian to play the role because if you didn’t you wouldn’t have grouped other minorities into your (no source) statistics. By writing this, you simply wanting someone of a specific minority to take the role base on the content of their skin is discriminatory. Unless the film was based on a true story, or the fictional story tackling something specifically race related someone ethnicity shouldn’t be an issue. Also, if you’re going to throw a statistic of minority at least provide a link to where you got that statistic, or else I’m going to suggest you made it out of thin air. Yes, you are cherry picking. If you wanted diversity you would have not made an excuse for Japan live action Attack On Titan film only having Japanese actors. If you wanted diversity you would have said it in a general sense not making excuses for any single country. You are cherry picking which region should, and not be held accountable for being representing minorities in their films. In Canada, French make up the total of 15.5% of the total population which is higher than Blacks making up 12.85% total population in the US. Yet, there's still more Black starring in Hollywood films than there are French starring in Canadian films. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2075.html A random article on French starring in Canadian films: Pretty much none as basically French-Canadian production are written about in general, but seemingly nothing on French starring in Canadian films. A random article on Black people starring in Hollywood films that was easy to find: http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/06/the-25-best-black-movies-of-the-last-25-years/ Where’s your uproar against that? If you actually cared about representation of minority, you would have made a general statement instead of defending Japan for not representing Europeans, and condemning the US for doing the same thing. iZZidane said: I just believe that two different countries with contrasting demographics should not be held to the same standards as they face completely different issues when it comes to stuff like this. This implies that you iZZidane think Japan is incapable of representing minorities no matter how small like the US. By that logic, you should not compare the lack of minority represented in Japan film industry because of contrasting demographics in the US. It’s no fair since Hollywood has dozens of films starring Blacks, and Hispanics unlike Japan which are either non-existent, or impossible to find meaning Japan superior in not representing minorities. It’s not a different issue since you excuse one country lack of representation of minorities in their film, but condemn another for the same thing. Since the lack of representation of minorities in the US is what you took an issue in your first post other countries are also fair game if you want to discuss lack of representation for minorities in films. |
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| I am amused that in this time when many are emphasizing their desire for more diversity in movies-- more diversity in everything, they would cast Scarlett. I'm actually not exactly sure how to feel about this, to be honest. Also, I guess you all weren't around or something, but we did talk about the SnK live action with a lot of mixed reactions, just like this. Anyway, I'd like to drop some links to studies that are relevant to this topic. You can form your own opinion after reading them, but it should at least give you an idea of why people find something like casting someone white in a role that could have been given to a just as capable minority as a problem. http://www.bunchecenter.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/2015-Hollywood-Diversity-Report-2-25-15.pdf http://annenberg.usc.edu/pages/~/media/MDSCI/Inequality%20in%20700%20Popular%20Films%2081415.ashx Basically, they both say that minorities are not cast as often as whites, but when they are, the entertainment they're a part of sells well. The statistics are what I wanted to point out though. Just one of the many comparisons, but the numbers often seem alike in pretty much every pie chart: Race/Ethnicity in the top 100 films in 2014 (but these statistics apparently haven't changed since 2007) -73.1% White// 12.5% Black// 5.3% Asian// 4.2% Other It's interesting to know that Blacks are more represented (even classified as over represented based on how many blacks make up the population) than other minorities, but realistically 73.1% to 12.5% is a really wide gap in who's getting work in the field and who's not. 73.1% to 5.3% or 4.2% is even worse. That's why people aren't too happy when it comes to whites being cast in roles which could potentially be a role for a minority. Just because you might understand why doesn't mean you have to agree though. Also, "lack of representation in media" usually refers to a lack of characters who are part of the culture/nation the media is supposed to reach. |
SwiggyMay 5, 2016 12:13 AM
| No. Hollywood is about making money. Hollywood does not care what race, religion, gender, sexual preference or whatever someone is, if they will make them money they will use them. |
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| People still going on about Scarlett Johansson and GitS, she is the main because its Hollywood producing it and want to have a larger audience, if you stuck a JP actress in there no one has heard of outside of people who watch JP movies you limit your audience compared with a massively popular actress like Scarlett Johansson since people will watch it just because she is in it, its a business in the end, why do people expect billion dollar companies to give a fuck about anything other than the money they make. Also it is a load of shite, just because a white woman or man is playing x role instead of a coloured person doesn't make it racist, since the only people complaining are complaining because the person is white and not some other race and in fact are the only people looking at race, but I forgot you cant be racist to whites. |
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| no one complained about miscasting when Japan did a reboot of Spiderman. Spiderman is white, and the lead in Supaidaman was Japanese. Racism anyone? What about The Concussion with Will Smith, who played a Nigerian actor. He played the role with a fake accent and make up to make his skin darker. African-Americans are racially distinct from actual Africans. Why didn't they just get a Nigerian actor? Major doesn't loo Japanese to begin with. Red eyes, double eyelids, BIG ASS BREASTS, purple hair. Even if Japanese people say she's Japanese, they also say there's no issue with a non-Japanese actress being the lead. Funny how these supports see such an issue with lack of Asians in western media, but they only protest when it's something Asian related. Didn't see them complaining about the lack of Asians in Deadpool, X-Men, Civil War, so forth. GiTS is an adaptation, not a tribute. There's no reason for them to stay faithful to the material, because they have to tailor it to their country's audience, like Japan did with Supaidaman. I'm genuinely surprised these idiots that accuse the film of racism and whitewashing haven't complained about the movie being in English lmao. |
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