Why do people hate Evangelion?

Not really a big fan of the semantics game, but sure, my bad for phrasing it differently.

There was no need to replace Rei completely since she wasn't dead, and the reason why there were clones of Rei was to build an important character arc for her that was established since the beginning episodes. So Anno didn't just "make it up" as the series progressed.

Shinji only stayed in the lava for a couple of seconds, while Asuka did for longer. So he wasn't under the lava long enough to get damaged.

10/10 don't have to be flawless. And nothing is flawless anyways, so judging something a 10 based off that is pretty stupid.

Zelev said:
@Taz_



LOL are you seriously implying there isn't a difference between what "aren't criticisms" and what "isn't true"? Because there's a huge difference. You're just deflecting.



Um, no. He did make it up, and I can prove it. If you can't replace certain parts of Rei, then Shinji's dad could have easily just killed off the injured Rei in the beginning and replaced her completely with a new clone. By doing so, it would have gotten rid of a lot of problems in the very beginning that they were facing at the time.



Shinji was never wearing protective equipment for his Eva like Asuka was, though.
Speed = Distance/Time. It stated she was going at about a speed of 20. When she got to 1,780ft that was 89 seconds, if you do the math. There was a gap period where it doesn't state what velocity she is going at, then after a while it says she's going at a velocity or speed of 2.2 for 30 seconds, which is another 66 feet. That puts her to at least 1,846ft that we know of.

After she captures the Angel (which is the timestamp of 16:05 in episode 10) she goes up for approximately 193 seconds (up to the timestamp of 19:18). However, if you do the math, that easily puts her over a depth of 3,800+ ft. And then she's still not even out of the lava yet after those 193 seconds. The Angel rips her safety line rope equipment and she falls down for about 5 seconds. Then Shinji comes in and saves her (and he isn't even wearing safety equipment on his Eva like she is).

TL;DR: Despite all of this, it never tells you what velocity Asuka is going at when she is going up for those 193 seconds. Additionally, seconds in the show does not necessarily equate to seconds in real life. It's basically impossible to tell how far down Asuka was in the lava by the time Shinji saved her. So when you say with sheer confidence that "Shinji was only in the lava for a couple of seconds" that doesn't really prove anything considering the scene literally cuts off right after he grabs her.



And the point goes over your head, yet again. I specifically told you my perspective on the scoring scale because your argument of "nothing is flawless" is stupid since I already know that. You offer no substance, just opinions.

I didn't imply anything, except that most people would understand what I'm saying even if I didn't use the right words. And really, they're aren't as different as you're making it out to be, but I digress. I already acknowledged and corrected myself, so I'm not sure why you're making such a big deal about it.

You obviously didn't get the intentions behind Gendo in the first episode. He not only wanted to defeat the angel, but he also wanted Shinji to do so. The reason why Rei was brought up in her injured state in the first place was to guilt-trip Shinji in piloting the Eva unit. Why do you think Gendo start grinning when Unit 01 moved on its own? Of course, if you understood humans, you'd understand this, but I don't mind explaining it.

And like I said, he couldn't have made it up since the Rei clones are very important to Rei's character.

Your argument using fucking physics (lol) falls apart when you realize that one second passed in the time doesn't necessarily equal one second passed in the anime. Stories don't have to follow time linearly, and this particular episode of Eva it didn't to focus on the fight between Asuka and the Angel. Just to remind you, anime =/= real life, so this isn't a flaw.

But just to humor you, have you considered the fact that Asuka might have been accelerating? Acceleration is the change of velocity, so you have to use more complex equations than just "distance over time" She also feels resistance coming down, so you need to factor that as well.

But let's pretend that you're right. How does this warrant Evangelion being labelled as shit?

This "inconsistency" isn't important at all, if we're looking at the meaning of the work as a whole. Objectively.

If you already know that, then why is it stupid? I was mainly addressing the fact that you considered not to use the 10 rating.

Evangelion isn't the first anime to come out lol. Anime was already pretty established around that time, so I think that's a bit unfair to say it took "credit".

But Evangelion is so impactful not because of the time period it came out in, but because of how revolutionary it was and how influential it is now. If it came out next year, of course it wouldn't be as impactful, since the reason why anime is the way today is partly because of Evangelion.

If we're looking at what's the "next Evangelion" (what's the most revolutionary and influential today), I'd say the Monogatari franchise or maybe even Haruhi (based on the few episodes I watched and what others have told me). If those were to be released 20 years from now, they definitely wouldn't have the same impact then they did now lol.

That doesn't seem logical unless you can pinpoint evidence of him knowing that. Why would he risk getting blown up for that? The logical thing to do would be to kill Rei and replace her, especially with a trick up his sleeve like hoarding a bunch of clones. And the Eva moving on its own was pure coincidence because the other Evas do not move on their own. There's no way he had any evidence to go on the assumption that the Eva would 100% move on its own (of course you can prove me wrong on that). It just so happened to work in his favor given the situation. I think you're just reaching too far there, but I don't know.

It literally says within that same episode that it took Rei about 7 months to get the hang of her Eva, and I'm supposed to believe Shinji's dad knew it would work instantly with his son?

Also, who the hell lets a clone heal if you need options and are about to die? Just kill it and replace it. That's way more efficient.

Yes, like 20 episodes later. It could very easily have been made up.

Lol? It's not like I stated that earlier [/sarcasm]. It's not a "flaw" per se, but it does ruin the immersion, which is subjective at that point.

Did you even watch the episode? She could not have accelerated. She was literally attached to a safety line, and even when it broke/tore off she descended straight down.

Resistance is a non-factor considering they gave you the actual consistent speed. That would still put her in a solid depth of at least 1,800ft for a time length of about 1 minute 30 seconds, and this is without factoring in her ascendance for 40 seconds to grab Shinji's knife. 1 minute 30 seconds minus 40 seconds = 50 seconds. That means out of those 193 total seconds of ascendance (minus 50 would be 143), she still had way over 2 minutes of narrating and struggling that did not fit the time frame. Like I said earlier, the immersion is purely subjective.

Uh, that's not at all what finding meaning in a work is. It's subjective.. not objective.

It's stupid because your logic behind "nothing is flawless" is that only your opinion is correct. Literally all you were doing was invalidating my perspective and validating yours while not backing it up.

That's not at all what I was claiming. Obviously there was anime before Eva.

That's literally what I said. Semantics, huh?

I agree, just not about the Monogatari part. I think that credit goes to the studio Shaft, not necessarily Monogatari itself. Shaft has a unique way of animating. I think if a different studio had animated the series, then it wouldn't be as impactful. It just depends on numerous factors.

A lot of people in real life don't do the logical thing. But considering Gendo's motivations, character, and personality, it makes sense why he'd want to risk it, especially if he had confidence that he would be successful.

Unit 01 has Shinji's mother in it, remember? That's why it was able to move on its own. The bond between Shinji and his mother was strong enough for it to happen, which is why he was able to pilot it so quickly. Rei isn't even really human, so it makes sense why she had trouble piloting hers.

Putting Rei a stretcher in front of Shinji was meant to guilt-trip him.

But Rei's internal conflict was established in the beginning episodes and there was light foreshadowing to it, so it couldn't have been made up in a whim.

You didn't mention that it was a personal problem you had, so I assumed you thought it was a flaw or "inconsistency"

They didn't consistently give you her speed lol. And they didn't keep the time constant since they wanted to emphasize the angel battle.

Not really. If someone told me Evangelion was solely a nihilistic piece, then they're wrong. I'm not saying that there can't be multiple interpretations of it, since there can be and are, but you have to have the basic fundamentals and core of it right.

When did I say that? I just said its stupid to think that anything that's a 10 is flawless.
I backed up my claims...

You called it a pioneer, so just wanted to clarify.

I just picked Monogatari since it's probably Shaft's biggest show.

Either way it was illogical, and you didn't provide evidence of him knowing 100% it would move on its own, so it's safe to say that at least that part of Eva was a stretch.

I don't think it was planned by Shinji's dad to guilt trip his son either, as there is nothing to support that claim. That would imply that Rei knew of this plan to get Shinji to operate it, but it just seemed like she was seriously injured. Of course, you can prove me wrong.

Wasn't Asuka's Eva her mom or something? So by that logic, shouldn't her Eva have moved on its own at times? I don't remember it doing that.

What conflict, specifically? Her inability to think for herself?

There was a reason for me explaining all that physics bs lol. Well, as we established earlier, we can't prove how far deep Asuka was. Therefore, we also can't prove how far deep Shinji was.

But even then, let's say I let that part go. I find it hard to believe he was perfectly fine without protective gear. Doesn't the pain of the Eva also get transferred to its user? So wouldn't the lava have caused him pain?

I know it's an example, but I don't think anyone would say that lol. And the core of the show =/= its meaning. It's objective up to a certain point and subjective to a certain point.

"The "inconsistencies" you mention aren't detrimental to the show at all though." <- Opinion

Of course, it's not only those small inconsistencies. I think the characters are rather meh..

Those were air quotes around pioneer.

I see. But are you referring to Japan, the western audience, or both?

Maz said:
Gave it a 4/10 myself. Didn't hate it, but it didn't appeal to me overly much.

- First half of it was just a regular monster-of-the-week deal. Nothing really special there. I didn't like nor dislike it.

- Asuka. I absolutely despise her. I actually put NGE on hold for several months because I became completely sick of every second she spent on screen. Berating and abusing Shinji at every single opportunity for absolutely no reason whatsoever just because "QQ I'm stressed out" made for a fuckin' awful character.
By taking her tsundere-ism to such ridiculously extreme lengths I feel it had the opposite effect of portraying the stress she was under. Rather than being a nice person with a sad backstory and the weight of the world on her shoulders, Asuka was just a cunt.

- Episode 20 nearly gave me a seizure.

- The last two episodes. Well, more specifically, the way the very last episode ended. I had nothing against the way the last two episodes were (although they could have done it in one episode, IMO ) but having those episodes followed by "congratulations" and lots of clapping made me feel like I'd been trolled. It's like there was meant to be a last episode but they forgot about it and just left things up in the air.
(I'm aware there are movies which end the story, but I wasn't into Eva enough to want to bother watching them).

- The really heavy-handed themes. I know it's been said a lot of the symbolism was used just because they thought it was cool, but it just made me laugh when I saw explosions taking on the forms of crosses. It was ridiculously forced and in-your-face.

- A lot of it flew over my head. I was somewhat confused at what was actually happening in the last 6-8 episodes, with all the different organisations, people, and interested parties. I could just be an idiot So that impeded my potential enjoyment too.

So as far as I'm concerned, I didn't think it was bad. I just didn't really see any particular reason to like it either. I could tell that it was very different to your regular highschool mecha anime, but being different doesn't automatically make it good.
I had it as a 5/10 (which for me denotes average; I didn't feel strongly either way) but dropped it to a 4 after the last two episodes. That clapping ending was just lol.

Mrkulci said:
all the things you just mentioned were done intentionally

Red_Ryu12345 said:


And why does that matter? If they were done badly or not in a good way them them it was bad to him.

Mrkulci said:


but you described all the things it gt praised for

Red_Ryu12345 said:
That's how art and value work: for one person it is trash but to another person it is treasure.

Lobinde said:

A picture speaks a thousand words. That said, I don't *hate* evangelion, in fact I thought EoE was a good movie, it's just that it is more of a monster of the week show that turns into a brief exploration of the depression Hideaki Anno was feeling at the time of directing it. Also, the ending of the tv series was a mess. I get what happened in it, it's just that it was presented in the most questionable and silly way possible.

I would prefer if he didn't get depression and kept directing stuff like gunbuster.

rvgd said:
they mention a lot of thing lika first, second and third impact, instrumentality, dead sea scrolls, etc. but we never get the answers at the end of the series like why angel attack humans, what is dead sea scrolls, what is longinus, etc. and then it turns out into 2 last episode of "meh". it's like anno throwing anything into a depression: series, whatsoever. Even EoE didn't answer it all

BarefootKommando said:


The end was a mess because Gainax ran out of money. They basically had to either

A. say "Fuck it" and put the show on hiatus until they could afford to do it right the first time
or
B. Reuse shots they already had, and come up with something to end the show until they could afford to do it right.

And I'd say we're better for the shitshow that was ep. 25-26, because if they hadn't done something, Evangelion would be more obscure than a german snuff film.

Gesu- said:
Because slightly slow-ish pacing and "lol look at dat beta pussy MC so pathetic lolol".
Also don't forget dated art and animation.

You'd think that they'd hate it for legit reasons but nope.
However some of the people in the above posts do dislike it for actual valid reasons tho. And I kinda feel them on that..

YatoGod said:
I didn't rated it too low cause I kinda liked the plot. I hated the animation even though both are old, dbz have much better animation then Evangelion. Beside that MC was a bitch/wimp/selfish kid, I literally wanted to drop the show on first episode but carried on.

Maz said:
Asuka. I absolutely despise her. I actually put NGE on hold for several months because I became completely sick of every second she spent on screen. Berating and abusing Shinji at every single opportunity for absolutely no reason whatsoever just because "QQ I'm stressed out" made for a fuckin' awful character.
By taking her tsundere-ism to such ridiculously extreme lengths I feel it had the opposite effect of portraying the stress she was under. Rather than being a nice person with a sad backstory and the weight of the world on her shoulders, Asuka was just a cunt.