Sound Having the Same Impact As Other Factors When Rating An Anime

kamisama751 said:

Yep, good shows are good, bad shows are bad and fun things are fun.
I also think that we are going separate all the time. XD


Objective criteria are facts, things the show has done which are logical understandable. If you separate the show in little pieces then you got them.
For example: An anime got these parts: story, plot, character, graphik, sound, …(maybe more but let’t just take those 5).
Then take graphic: art style, animation, cg, effects, …
Then take art style: character design, background design, weapon design, …
Then take background design: style, color, and so on
Of course, I am no analyzing so deep into the details in order to score it but that is how you do it (with every critera which leads to many sub criteria).

The value/quality of that something is decided by everything of the same thing. The story is judged by all other story that came out in that medium/literature. The (2d) animation is judged by all (2d) animation that came out.


First, I told you that story is just a chain of action. Second, if you can’t separate it then tell me how adaptations done it.


I can’t find anything different there. :P


You can’t express them in a different medium because of the difference of the spice (explained that to you). The animation is a crucial part OF THAT MEDIUM. The story is not the animation they are separate things.
In addition, of course you can tell the same story of Mushishi or Kill la Kill in a different medium since they are just a part of that show, which is independent of it’s medium.
For example: Mushishi manga, Kill la Kill manga
Then there is something like NHK ni Yokoso. Got an anime version and manga version AND novel version. Can you express the anime version of it in a novel format? No, since novels haven’t got animation (and sound). However, you can retell the same story in a different medium.
The same goes for character and plot. They are independent to the medium since they can be retelled/represented in any medium. (Now read what I wrote about it in the above post once again. You might understand it after it.)



From what you have said I can only tell that you mean D-Reaper is not an effective villain if you change his design.
That is what I am working against. An effective villain has nothing to do with his design. Give him a random design of an digimon and it still works.
(Also see the last paragraph of this post.)


Character is a part of the content, themes also. And the art doesn’t matter anyway. What makes a show good is it’s content.

Let’s pretend Digimon Tamers is a very good show. The story is simple. Characters and themes are good and it made Tamers good. Character and theme are part of the content. The content is good so the show is good. Who needs the animation, it is just something to make you enjoy more and enjoyment doesn’t count as a criteria.
But since animation is a part of the show it must be a part of the score right? True, but counts much less since it doesn’t add or take away that much. If you change the story into a complete garbage (a simple story is not garbage, they are just average) then the shows score will sink dramatically and it becomes just a very bad show in spite of the good characters they got (which turns into a complete waste of good characters). It won’t happen if it is the animation/sound that is bad (Perfect Blue, Haibane Renmei, … they are good despite of the trash graphik).


The animation and sound don’t help if the story, character, plot are garbage. They make things a bit better with the requirement of having average/good plot/character/story in the first place.

kamisama751 said:

I have just pointed out why the criteria for voting are objective but said nothing about that being logical automatically means good.
How do you know it is based on what you have watched so far (compare it to other works you watched/read) and what you experienced so far.
I have said if something is good or not is based on all other of it’s type, right? Yes and since no one knows everything you can only approach your scoring to the “real” score as near as you can (by watching as many shows as possible with critical thinking as requirement).


Thank you for agreeing with me (see my paragraph above).
You can forgive anything if it doesn’t matter to the show. For example: The shoes are red but in the very next moment it becomes blue for no reason. Forgive it since it doesn’t matter.
However, if it matters then you should not forgive it (if you are a critic). For example: plotholes, script immunity, the setting contradicts with what is shown, …


See my first paragrapgh and thank you for agreeing with me again.
However, is Aikaflip’s score for that show the “real” and 100% objective score?
He is just another person who approaches the “real” score just in another perspective.


Nope. It is the character itself that made him so which has nothing to do with it’s design.
Pointed it out many times (just read what I wrote before). If you still can’t understand then just stop this topic here. Further discussing it isn’t necessary anymore.



Thank you for agreeing with me.


Never said it does.


You forgot the plot and of course it is (with the plot).


It’s purpose is a part of the story. It’s way to achieve it is part of the plot. Further approved that the statement I said above is true (and right).


These are few of the main factors for judging an anime.


You don’t decide it, the (well done) focus decides it instead.

How to do the focus (as a creator): Keep everything you want the viewer to watch outstanding and everything that you don’t care/isn’t important in your work simple, but not bad.

kamisama751 said:

100% objectivity is something only god has. However, you can near your though more and more to pure objectivity. Nevertheless, you can never reach it.
As I said, objective are undeniable facts. When someone cut himself then he just cut himself. No one can deny it. That is for example pure objective. Plot holes are objective. Script immunity is objective.

If you ask if that tree out there is green then someone will say yes and someone else will say no since it got a bit orange. This is subjective. Then a professor of colors comes and gives you the wavelength of that color. This is objective since that color got that wavelength and no one can deny it.
How objective works? Everything undeniable is objective. If you don’t know if something is objective or not then why not try to deny it?
You need clear, precise rules that have zero vagueness?

I said, you can only near your though more and more to pure objectivity. So you can never measure the “true” worth of a show but your score can get very close to it (based on how much objective you become). Do the scores 8.001 and 8.002 actually make a difference? Yes, since they are not the same. But it doesn’t matter since they both are represented as 8.
The way you can/should measure a shows worth is simply to compare it to other works you watched. The more you watch the more objective and accurate your scores become.


There you are: become critical and compare shows.
The theory of the worth of a show can’t be written down since no one is able to write it completely since there are always subjectivity mixed in. Becoming more objective is nothing that can be easily done from today to tomorrow. You need to learn, experience and think a lot about things you have seen.
I recommend you two youtubers who are critical and (more objective than the majority and) also explains a lot of stuff. You won’t understand their viewpoint in the beginning but will some day. I didn’t become critical just in a few days either.
https://www.youtube.com/user/bobsamurai: analyzes shows into enough details, isn’t toxic at all, tells his true feelings instead of “I am telling this in order to make the viewers happy and get more money out of youtube”
https://www.youtube.com/user/ThatAnimeSnob: a bit toxic for most people but what he says are true with tons of theory about story, characters, plot and so on and many insider things analyzed and explained


What is if I tell you that science is based on fiction.
The true objectivity exists but just not inside humans and it is neither personal nor a product of human thought.
What is when I tell you that your PC won’t work when all the non-physical things are removed. Just because something isn’t physical existing doesn’t mean they are bad/unnecessary.


And story, character and plot are parts of the content and audio and graphic are parts of the style. Thank you for agreeing with me.


That didn’t change his personality and he still works the same as before even when he got another design.
What is if I tell you that there are too less layers to make it less simple.

Also the answer to the paragraph above this.

Now eat a stake and chill for a day.

kamisama751 said:


Objectivity explained.

I don’t only say a show’s quality is objective. I also explained why it is so with why it’s criteria are all objective and how you can/should judge each criteria (by comparing it to all other).
If you don’t read what I wrote properly then how should I tell you my perspective.


Value exists in everyone’s mind, not only humans.
The value is depending on what you use it? Right and we are going back to “the focus” (what I have mentioned somewhere before).
If the creator wants to focus on the animation, then he should make everything else simple and the animation outstanding. In this case, everything count a bit less to the scoring as they usually do and the value of animation rises. That’s what it means of based of how you use it.
However, simple doesn’t mean bad. If (for example) the story is bad then it stands out which means that the story got focused even it shouldn’t.
We are discussing shows in general so the “focus” is actually not really in play/we are pretending the show’s focus is standard.


If you are watching for their persons and not for the content then… yeah I can’t help you anymore.
If you don’t like his reviews then watch his AnimeTruth. That is where the true content lies.
Sorry, too late. Already got insulted by him and I like his AnimeTruth videos and what do you mean by “So far you've done pretty well”.


That is only the first impression and not their full true identity. If you judge them by their look then you have done as much as giving a show a score JUST by it’s animation which is pure bullsh*t since there are more than only animation/look.
Sure, you might not want to talk to them/watch that show. However, you can never judge them just by it.

kamisama751 said:

There are many things that can be judged. Value is one of them. What we are talking here is judging the quality.
Judging the value is about “how much does this affect us/the show”. Judging the quality is “how good is it compared to others of it’s type”.
At least, the value has something to do with it’s importance. I don’t deny that.

Well, I admit that I used the wrong word in this case. Should have used “quality” instead of “worth”. Sorry.


For me reviews are just how reviewer’s perspective of that work. From my viewpoint, reviews should contain what the reviewer analyzed out of it (which includes the things the show done right/wrong). I watch reviews for improving my perspective no matter if I agree with them or not.
There are also things a review shouldn’t include (like talking all the time how much he/she likes the show) which most people are doing wrong.


The focus is/are the outstanding things/criteria in the show.
If the creator isn’t able to do it right then he just f*cked it up and the focus goes berserk. No need for holding back since it is the creator’s mistake not to focus on the right thing. Nothing helps if they create something they didn’t mean to. If the focus should be the animation and the story got focused instead because of the bad script then just score the show like the focus is the story from the beginning on.

Agreed that it depends on your view. However, you can expand your view, which leads more and more to perfection (but you will never reach it). I have explained it somewhere above too (see my quote under).



Thanks.


How someone looks/smells/voice is affect our perception. That’s why they are as important as everything else they got since you won’t even try to talk to them if they failed there. You become friend with someone because of his or her personality (with the requirement of okay looking/…). As long as you become friends you don’t really care if he/she smells a bit/looks nice or not, don’t you?
Their look got you hooked and you become friends because of their personality where their looking isn’t that affecting anymore.
The same with anime. The audio/graphic elements got you hooked then you watch it for the story/character/plot where you don’t really care if the budget for the animation drops a bit in the middle of the show.

Believe it or not, what you said about the design only applies to a little number of shows which are creative (nowadays) and from the past.
Many studios only design characters once and paste it to every show they make like A1-Pictures. There are also studios who makes every character moe just for the sake of sales instead of representing the characters themselves.
The creators aren’t creative in this case. They are just producing things that will sell. Also what sells the most now are sh*tty done shows with tons of fan service/moe which doesn’t contain much “good stuff” (in this case I mean good story/characters/…). Exceptions exists but they are just so rare that your statement about design doesn’t really apply in the most case nowadays.

kamisama751 said:

Sounds interchangeable but isn’t.
Let’s take the studios perspective as an example: They produced a show. Is this show worth? It sells, so yes. How is this shows quality? It contains nearly only fan service, so it’s quality is bad.
They profit from this show so it is worth to them. However it’s content is bad so it’s quality is bad.


Fiction and real life aren’t the same but it applies to both of them. It is about your first impression of something/someone which has (actually) nothing to do with fiction or reality.


Haven’t said that it is wrong. (Most) Shows that are coming out nowadays just works just different. (They are produced just for the sake of sells which doesn’t have much of an artistic aspect.) In other words: They (most shows coming out nowadays) don’t even try to fulfill their purpose.
Also this:

kamisama751 said:


Where have I said that fan service is bad?
Don’t know if you are trolling me or not. Fan service is a topic brought up numerous times where nearly everyone knows about it and it’s influence (at least critics).

Fan service is not necessary for the show to move forward. They are there to give the fans some service they want. Fan service is not only sexual, it can also be blood/gore.
However, there are also terms of how to use it and it can go wrong.
1. Overdosing: Too much fan service distracts the viewer from the show where “the focus” moves away from it’s actual target. Very disturbing and you will turn to dislike it since you got more than enough.
2. At the wrong place: Every element in a show got it’s own place for it to show up, the same with fan service. There is this situation where the characters discusses/analyzes the situation/a certain important topic and you see ass- and boob-shots all the time. What should that? It doesn’t fit at all.

There might be more but these 2 examples should be enough.

What the most shows coming out nowadays got is doing the 2 things (or more but I can’t remember any now) all the time just for the sake of sells (fan service sells and it is so in any medium).

There are even shows that are created just for satisfying the viewers desire of sex/gore. What does these shows got besides fan service (which isn’t necessary for the show to move forward)? Actually nothing since they disregard everything that is important for a show.


I haven’t said anything about judging fiction/real live. What I pointed out is that your first impression has nothing to do with reality and fiction and you shouldn’t judge by your first impression (even though no one can stop themselves for doing so).

I agree that the creators got full control over it. However, there isn’t really anything “creative” coming out nowadays. It is like there is a norm of “how to”/”how it should be” and everyone follows it. There are even studios who design it once and use it in every show they produce (mentioned it before).
According to your list, I can say you haven’t watched any of those “mass produced” shows. Even those you completed are the very outstanding ones.

kamisama751 said:

Haha, you misunderstood it. Containing fan service isn’t bad, containing nearly only fan service is bad. Why? Because it takes very much away from the show. However, the quality of the fan service itself is out of the question.



Where the creators don’t care about it is merely just the first impression.
The “meanings” behind the designs are mostly really retarded to work with. Mentioned before, studios put out moe characters just for the sake of sales which has actually nothing to do with the characters themselves. Studios like A1-Pictures only design their characters once and paste it everywhere. Where is the “meaning” behind those designs please? They are using it for sales and sparing time/cut budget instead of creativity/express something meaningful.


Yes, it should be so but most creators don’t even give a f*ck about it so it doesn’t work (well). For the real “creative” works yes it applies. How many “crative” works are released nowadays? Just a few and before it’s design kicks in the content should be something attractive enough because of this: