Let us cling together was top tier, nothing wrong with that. |
| @Damonashu tl;dr |
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| @Damonashu I won't waste my time with bullshit. Like: but in the context of censorship, then wouldn't you be doing yourself a disservice. Proven pervasive slippery slopes are not doing anyone a service.not refer solely to a company but also to yourself. Is this to say "You shouldn't self-censor" or are you continuing from the point above when you said "what would you do if you met content you didn't like"? Because we're arguing censorship in fiction. Self-censorship imposed to yourself in society is still wrong, but it's not what our arguments are focusing on, you're going off-topic.If that's not it and you mean, "Why aren't you fighting for everything equally?", well, who says I or anyone else isn't? Avoiding content does not mean you're against it being there. If that's still not it, explain yourself. Also: It occurred to me that the Anti-censorship group would either be akin to entitled gamers You even considered this as an option. There's no entitlement, these companies wouldn't be a thing without us. They're there to get money, true, but how do they do that? By pleasing us. Otherwise they die.or actually having something worthwhile to say. Of course we do, it's simple.Anti-censorship I don't even have to argue anything else, to be fair. There's no argument for pro-censorship unless you want to delve into the unrealistic or negative. Like anti-customer. Or anti-human rights, I don't know, pick your poison. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| @Immahnoob Is this to say "You shouldn't self-censor" or are you continuing from the point above when you said "what would you do if you met content you didn't like"? Because we're arguing censorship in fiction. Self-censorship imposed to yourself in society is still wrong, but it's not what our arguments are focusing on, you're going off-topic. The former. In thinking about whether or not I was for or against censorship, I had to ask myself if I would deliberately censor (exclude) certain things without prompting. In saying that, I will agree that I went off topic. The concluding part of that post was more of a philosophical analysis than me making any further arguments. It would also end up being what I thought on at work that day. Avoiding content does not mean you're against it being there. This would ultimately be what I was hoping to learn, although I suppose I would have better served myself by asking a question, rather than presuming the tone of my words would translate my intrigue. I fear that I usually forget the Who's, What's, and Why's. You even considered this as an option. There's no entitlement, these companies wouldn't be a thing without us. They're there to get money, true, but how do they do that? By pleasing us. Otherwise they die. That, unfortunately, does not stop it from being an option. In conflicts of ideology and principle, one party is always looking for some ad hominem to suggest that the other party has no ground. It's easier for them, and their audience to ignore the outcries if they can just say that those outcries are provoked by flimsy reasons. It doesn't matter if we can yell, "We're your market! Please us!", If Paul Marketing is looking down from the window and telling the company that we are just a "vocal minority." As far as these companies go, Paul Marketing presumes to do all the speaking for us, so what could the anti-censorship group do to either beat Paul to the door, or completely silence him all together? Of course we do, it's simple. Anti-censorship I don't even have to argue anything else, to be fair. There's no argument for pro-censorship unless you want to delve into the unrealistic or negative. Like anti-customer. Or anti-human rights, I don't know, pick your poison. I can agree that there's no argument for Pro-censorship. While I can speculate as to why a company would do it, in the grand scheme of the notion, I'm staunchly against it. I believe that the effort should be made by the caretaker (in the event that exposed persons are not emotionally mature enough) to explain content that raises questions, and not simply remove the content from the equation. That said, I think that this is one of those, "Inaction is worse than Action," situations because, so long as everyone else is listening to the Anti-censorship group and saying, "You're right, but it's whatever." It can't be expected to see any change. If we stop buying the games, they'll just say, "I guess there's no interest." So I concluded that the only way we can really stop censorship would be to confront the force responsible for it; to give them a reason to look dubiously onto Paul Marketing. Human Rights is a good comparison because, regardless of the difference in scale between them, I don't think there has ever been a point where people could just say, "It's a basic human right.", and leave it at that. |
| @Damonashu As far as these companies go, Paul Marketing presumes to do all the speaking for us, so what could the anti-censorship group do to either beat Paul to the door, or completely silence him all together? The moment they're not supported, they lose money. If that's not enough to silence Paul "Marketing", then he should probably change name.Hell, he should change name already. Sure, maybe you're just right, the people that would not buy the game because of anti-censorship aren't that many. Those that won't buy the game out of "moral and cultural outrage" are also a minority (they're also erratic, these changes are small and there are still "problematic" elements in the game, so you can as well say that most changes will not please them). But you wouldn't have a the anti-censorship group on your head if you wouldn't be censoring it in any way. And the "morally and culturally outraged", will be outraged anyway, so you might have as well garnered some support from them, but you've lost more on the other front. Anyone with half a brain would look at this situation and say "I think localizing is a bad idea.", since don't forget, that even if you TRULY BELIEVE WITH ALL YOUR HEART that they did please the outraged... Localization costs money. More than just only translating. Besides, the morally outraged, if this is our sample, are a 12%, with a margin of error of ~3%. Say, if Fates sells 1.4m (Awakening did). Imagine that the 15% don't buy the game because of moral/cultural outrage. Now imagine that AT LEAST HALF of the positive and against censorship people won't buy the game. If we stop buying the games, they'll just say, "I guess there's no interest." Sure, if you're completely socially daft as a company and never check media sites, I agree.Besides, email campaigns actually happening and people emailing with reasons for why they pirate and not buy or just not buy. But you know what? I better have them not bring it over at all. Why would I need a butchered version? So I concluded that the only way we can really stop censorship would be to confront the force responsible for it; to give them a reason to look dubiously onto Paul Marketing. And we are, Nintendo seems to not be listening anyway. There have been email campaigns all over the place. Hell, some people sent letters. They either don't care or want to keep up some image. Good for them, I'll pirate everything they release then. |
ImmahnoobJan 31, 2016 11:01 AM
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| The game is rated T for Teen. So that's ages 13 and up right? Hypothetically speaking, Would you be okay with your 13 year old daughter stroking characters and listening to suggestive moans and dialog? |
BurningBattousai said: Yes, I would be fine with it.The game is rated T for Teen. So that's ages 13 and up right? Hypothetically speaking, Would you be okay with your 13 year old daughter stroking characters and listening to suggestive moans and dialog? Why wouldn't you be? |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: BurningBattousai said: Yes, I would be fine with it.The game is rated T for Teen. So that's ages 13 and up right? Hypothetically speaking, Would you be okay with your 13 year old daughter stroking characters and listening to suggestive moans and dialog? Why wouldn't you be? I'm just playing devils advocate here so I don't necessarily agree with the censorship. But depending on how sexualized the petting minigame is, I can see some parents taking concern with it. |
| Well, those parents are retarded then. Besides that, it's not sexualized unless you're married to the person you're petting, then it has some sexual innuendo. You can touch the head, neck and shoulders, nothing else. And seriously, 13 year olds shouldn't have issues with anything sexual. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
BurningBattousai said: The game is rated T for Teen. So that's ages 13 and up right? Hypothetically speaking, Would you be okay with your 13 year old daughter stroking characters and listening to suggestive moans and dialog? 1) Nothing is actually happening. There are FAR worse things on TV that a 13 year old can easily access. 2) What makes innuendo so much more offensive than something say like, unadulturated violence and other shit. My parents let me buy GTA III when i was around 13 years old. They understood what was in the game, They also understood that i'm a pretty reasonably intellegent individual that can diferentiate between fiction and reality. GTA III also has the ability to bang hookers... although, this is pretty implied (Like, well... i don't know... maybe a head petting minigame). [I figure i should probably point this out before someone quotes me on this: I've seen the head petting minigame, its not even remotely as bad as something as silly as banging hookers in GTA III, just my personal opinion] I think peoples issue with this is mostly just a cultural one. They're like "Oh this is from Japan, so it has to have some "gross" things in it" or something. I know that comparing GTA to something like FE: Fates isn't a good example because its comparing an M to a T game, but i'm just telling you what MY parents thought was acceptable at the time. Keep in mind this was in the height of the controversy about violent videogames. |
| My parents didn't give a fuck what I was playing. And I'm sure I haven't raped anyone, haven't killed anyone or have developed any mental disorders. That's most of the population of the globe, by the way. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| Unfortunately not all parents are reasonable and informed. Projecting an image of fun and appropriate for all ages seems to be something Nintendo is concerned about, at least in the west. Though this doesn't really explain the censorship of Dead or Alive when the game is already rated mature. You can't get any more american than skimpy outfits and big breasts. It may just be a culture bias like someone suggested... I dunno. It's hard to pinpoint stupidity. |
If some parents still think this is gross or inappropriate for their children...then those parents really are retarded. |
Shiro-Jan 31, 2016 12:04 PM
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Shirou- said: If some parents still think this is gross or inappropriate for their children...then those parents really are retarded. Yeah, I figured you'd be feeling them up everywhere, but if it's only the face like that video suggests I can't understand the censorship. There is zero rational thought behind it. |
BurningBattousai said: Nintendo of America does not use reason when they censor their games.Shirou- said: If some parents still think this is gross or inappropriate for their children...then those parents really are retarded. Yeah, I figured you'd be feeling them up everywhere, but if it's only the face like that video suggests I can't understand the censorship. There is zero rational thought behind it. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| The actual censorship doesn't bother me. I doubt i'd care all that much about the minigame. But the idea that people at Nintendo actually sat down and discussed this and then took the steps necessary to remove a harmless feature from the game is ridiculous. It's been said that any press is good press. Perhaps this pointless censorship is a marketing tool. |
| No, the Streisand effect is happening right now, you'd be right there. But the Streisand effect would work against Nintendo, since they're the ones that are censoring the game. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
BurningBattousai said: There's tons of PG-13 movies in America that have sex in them. Fates is pretty light in comparison.The game is rated T for Teen. So that's ages 13 and up right? Hypothetically speaking, Would you be okay with your 13 year old daughter stroking characters and listening to suggestive moans and dialog? |
 |
Immahnoob said: My parents didn't give a fuck what I was playing. And I'm sure I haven't raped anyone, haven't killed anyone or have developed any mental disorders. That's most of the population of the globe, by the way. This is so fucking true. Thankfully I was lucky enough to be born with parents that let kids be kids. I remember buying Manhunt day one back in my super edge teen years. I remember playing Manhunt in the living room and suffocating some guy with a plastic bag while my mom was making lunch. She would occasionally glance at the game and sigh but that's about it. I have never been a violent person and have never acted out violently except in self-defense. I just happen to find gore funny. PC culture is out of control. FontSize72LOL said: I think peoples issue with this is mostly just a cultural one. They're like "Oh this is from Japan, so it has to have some "gross" things in it" or something. I think this is also very true. Ever since the 2000s when games got mainstream a lot of western gaming news site went full anti-Jap games. Almost every Japanese game released nowadays gets reviewed in a harsher light than some shitty meme indie game with unironic SNES graphics. It's gotten to the point were you read articles about companies like Bioware talking about lack of originality in Japanese games. Which is fucking hilarious considering Bioware has literally used the same story template for their RPGs since Baldur's Gate. |
FullmetalRaikouJan 31, 2016 2:53 PM
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| By the time I was 13 years old I was already fapping to porn. By comparison this is pretty innocuous. No I would not give the slightest shit if my daughter played this game. Sorry to shatter anyone's misconceptions about their supposed children's innocence at that age. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
| @Fullmetal89 the sigh. So true... "Huhhhh... He's playing shit like that again... Whatever." |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
BurningBattousai said: The game is rated T for Teen. So that's ages 13 and up right? Hypothetically speaking, Would you be okay with your 13 year old daughter stroking characters and listening to suggestive moans and dialog? Speaking of games rated T for teen... I think some head patting is fairly mild, comparatively. |
 |
Narmy said: Lol bullshit, that has to be M.BurningBattousai said: The game is rated T for Teen. So that's ages 13 and up right? Hypothetically speaking, Would you be okay with your 13 year old daughter stroking characters and listening to suggestive moans and dialog? Speaking of games rated T for teen... I think some head patting is fairly mild, comparatively. |
| |
| LOL, no dual audio. How much more can they do. |
Major123 said: It's T, Narmy isn't lying.Narmy said: Lol bullshit, that has to be M.Speaking of games rated T for teen... I think some head patting is fairly mild, comparatively. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| is the game any good? |
| |
| Can't tell, didn't play it. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| I still have never understood why Western society is so afraid of sex? Sex is natural. Yes, many children do play videogames. But why is it okay for them to play intensely violent games blowing people up, blood and gore, and all of that, but a 2d character blushing when you tap their portrait, oh noes, end of the world right there. LOL it makes no sense, there's far worse things in videogames these days. I won't really miss this feature in the game, but still I just think it's silly to remove it but allow far worse (though not sexualized) things in other games. |
| @GeekySweetie I agree with you that some prude Western countries (usually Anglo nations) tend to shy away from sex and embrace violence. I think there's more to it than just protecting kids from sex. To use Bioware as an example; I know that their games are usually rated M and Fire Emblem is rated T. There's a lot of stuff in Bioware games that I personally find cringe worthy. I have yet to play a JRPG, not counting Visual Novels; that has had graphic sex scenes like the ones in certain Bioware games. That said I would never want to see that stuff removed. Just because I find it awkward and quite frankly hilariously bad, doesn't mean it should be removed for those that enjoy that stuff. They really need to hire new animators and at least try to design better character models... Anyway, I don't think it's so much the sex that is bad but that it comes from Japan. A lot of Western review sites and gaming blog sites seem to have jumped on the "Japan is so weird lol" bandwagon. Basically anything with otaku pandering elements gets overblown in the west, usually by websites trying to get some traffic. That coupled with the retarded PC surge in the last 7 or so years and you have shit like the recent censorship by NoA being deemed acceptable by most western gamers. I'm also pretty much convinced at this point that the sole purpose for all this cutting is to try and sell this game to a wider audience in the west. They don't want to get calls from retarded parents complaining about some 'heavy petting' in their child's video game. Funny thing is that the stuff that is getting removed isn't even creepy to be honest. I've been watching a lot of the "skinship" videos since this whole censorship debacle started. You can't even pet the character inappropriately, the most lewd thing about it is the occasional moans.... I mean really, Pokemon Amei is much worst in that regard. You can literally fondle Machoke's goods in that game.....  |
FullmetalRaikouFeb 1, 2016 11:24 AM
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| I agree, I think gamers (and mass media right now) are on a sorta "Otaku Witch Hunt" in a sense. I even see some users on anime forums (like this one) who call games like Persona and Fire Emblem "Weeb Shit" and criticize it. Which is pretty mind blowing given that we're on an anime forum full of otaku lol. People will follow trends in anything, games are no exception. JRPG are no longer "cool" like they were back in the 90s. And people are afraid to like (and therefore afraid to buy) anything which might be criticized by their peers. There's a lot of anime fans who are "in the closet" about their fandom and afraid of being "teased" etc. So it was clearly a marketing move to try to "westernize" the game - but by doing that they're isolating their "real" fanbase, the otaku type who normally buy these games in the first place. sort of shooting themselves in their own foot. |
GeekySweetie said: So it was clearly a marketing move to try to "westernize" the game - but by doing that they're isolating their "real" fanbase, the otaku type who normally buy these games in the first place. sort of shooting themselves in their own foot. Yup, we will have to wait and see when the game launches. Right now that is just my favorite tinfoil hat conspiracy atm. |
|
| I pretty much ran wild my entire life, but lots of parents do take an active role with their children. I've seen plenty of these types of parents not buying games due to the rating, despite how much little Jimmy begged his mommy. |
GeekySweetie said: I agree, I think gamers (and mass media right now) are on a sorta "Otaku Witch Hunt" in a sense. I even see some users on anime forums (like this one) who call games like Persona and Fire Emblem "Weeb Shit" and criticize it. Which is pretty mind blowing given that we're on an anime forum full of otaku lol. People will follow trends in anything, games are no exception. JRPG are no longer "cool" like they were back in the 90s. And people are afraid to like (and therefore afraid to buy) anything which might be criticized by their peers. There's a lot of anime fans who are "in the closet" about their fandom and afraid of being "teased" etc. So it was clearly a marketing move to try to "westernize" the game - but by doing that they're isolating their "real" fanbase, the otaku type who normally buy these games in the first place. sort of shooting themselves in their own foot. Honestly that's why I can't help but respect what NoA's doing. It's a clever little PR trick they're pulling. They call attention to the feature building up detractors and then remove it making those very detractors feel vindicated and more likely to buy it knowing that people against the censorship are put in a near impossible position. If they boycott or complain it can easily be misconstrued as being salty that they can't pet their waifus and used as ammunition to why the removal was necessary, but if they buy it anyways it can be used to validate the choice to remove it or to further belittle them by using the "you'll buy it anyways" defense seen during the Fant4stic fiasco. |
| @AllenNoah What a nice theory. With a big ass hole in it. The "detractors" are a minority. ~3% margin of error if total sales would have been 1.4m as predecessor. Oh and, there's actually a fan translation which is almost done (story and DLC is done, most supports aren't though), so the anti-censorship group actually has a good position, kek. The "waifu shit" is actually what saved Fire Emblem in the first place. It was a dead series revived by the same "waifu shit" everyone's talking about. This game won't tank, to be fair, but it won't be a good looking sight either. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: @AllenNoah What a nice theory. With a big ass hole in it. The "detractors" are a minority. ~3% margin of error if total sales would have been 1.4m as predecessor. Oh and, there's actually a fan translation which is almost done (story and DLC is done, most supports aren't though), so the anti-censorship group actually has a good position, kek. The "waifu shit" is actually what saved Fire Emblem in the first place. It was a dead series revived by the same "waifu shit" everyone's talking about. This game won't tank, to be fair, but it won't be a good looking sight either. ..I'm getting the feeling you've misunderstood me, but just to be sure, what side do you think I'm on? I'm speaking mainly from NoA's POV (rather how I see it) and I know that they'd be wrong, hence me using words like "PR stunt" and "misconstrued." |
AllenNoah said: Immahnoob said: @AllenNoah What a nice theory. With a big ass hole in it. The "detractors" are a minority. ~3% margin of error if total sales would have been 1.4m as predecessor. Oh and, there's actually a fan translation which is almost done (story and DLC is done, most supports aren't though), so the anti-censorship group actually has a good position, kek. The "waifu shit" is actually what saved Fire Emblem in the first place. It was a dead series revived by the same "waifu shit" everyone's talking about. This game won't tank, to be fair, but it won't be a good looking sight either. ..I'm getting the feeling you've misunderstood me, but just to be sure, what side do you think I'm on? Hmmm.... Team Jacob? |
| Useless pandering, but there's really nothing gross or sexual about it. Not sure why it was removed, 13+ children are not that sheltered and sensitive. Someone touches a character's face and they blush, that doesn't mean the character is actually getting wet down there. |
AllenNoah said: It's not a matter of sides, I'm poking at your theory.Immahnoob said: @AllenNoah What a nice theory. With a big ass hole in it. The "detractors" are a minority. ~3% margin of error if total sales would have been 1.4m as predecessor. Oh and, there's actually a fan translation which is almost done (story and DLC is done, most supports aren't though), so the anti-censorship group actually has a good position, kek. The "waifu shit" is actually what saved Fire Emblem in the first place. It was a dead series revived by the same "waifu shit" everyone's talking about. This game won't tank, to be fair, but it won't be a good looking sight either. ..I'm getting the feeling you've misunderstood me, but just to be sure, what side do you think I'm on? |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: AllenNoah said: It's not a matter of sides, I'm poking at your theory...I'm getting the feeling you've misunderstood me, but just to be sure, what side do you think I'm on? Ah, that's fair enough. My mistake then. |
BurningBattousai said: The game is rated T for Teen. So that's ages 13 and up right? Hypothetically speaking, Would you be okay with your 13 year old daughter stroking characters and listening to suggestive moans and dialog? Well, yeah. Have you seen what's in some PG-13 movies as of late? Not only that, but Senran Kagura Burst in all its ecchi glory only received a T for Teen rating uncensored despite having a CERO D (17+) rating in Japan. Fire Emblem Fates is only CERO C (15+). |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
CatSoul said: BurningBattousai said: The game is rated T for Teen. So that's ages 13 and up right? Hypothetically speaking, Would you be okay with your 13 year old daughter stroking characters and listening to suggestive moans and dialog? Well, yeah. Have you seen what's in some PG-13 movies as of late? Not only that, but Senran Kagura Burst in all its ecchi glory only received a T for Teen rating uncensored despite having a CERO D (17+) rating in Japan. Fire Emblem Fates is only CERO C (15+). The culprit here is NOA. Nintendo in Japan don't care about this issue but it is always a issue with the NA branch. |
| It seems IGN is being IGNorant. Quote of the day: "Nintendo is selling a product, not art." The Sistine Chapel is no longer art. Second quote of the day: "If you want your homophobic content, learn Japanese and get the Japanese game." AKA LEARN a language, HACK your 3DS or BUY a new one and then you'll have the right to the content everyone else has besides your region |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| @Immahnoob IGN once again showing how PC and leftwing they are. What a crock of shit. That Jose Otero guy is taking all this way too seriously. Now they are calling the game homophobic and even more content is cut. Fucking ridiculous. |
|
| @Fullmetal89 They also went out of their way to say that the people complaining are "2-4 people on Twitter and Facebook". We'll find out if there will be more content cut one of these days, since Nichegamer is on the case. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: It seems IGN is being IGNorant. Quote of the day: "Nintendo is selling a product, not art." The Sistine Chapel is no longer art. Second quote of the day: "If you want your homophobic content, learn Japanese and get the Japanese game." AKA LEARN a language, HACK your 3DS or BUY a new one and then you'll have the right to the content everyone else has besides your region The irony of that statement is palpable., because I'm pretty sure if you did learn Japanese then, you'd learn that the homophobia in question isn't homophobia at all. |
| This makes me really concerned for what may get cut from SMT X FE # since it's also on a Nintendo console, but Atlus is doing the localization for that one and not Nintendo directly, but I worry Nintendo may force Atlus to make edits as well - SMT X FE is even more Japanese and Weeb-tastic than Fire Emblem Fates since it revolves completely around "idol culture". Too bad they couldnt have put it on Vita or PS4 instead where "Weeb Shit" (as the haters call it) is in abundance. |
| Now I REALLY don't give a fuck about this but man SJW's need to piss the fuck off! and that whole "gay conversion" thing is fkn hilarious! takin shit away and giving us the infeirior version is just not right. Fuck SJW's or maybe I should say fuck Nintendo? Its not like company's like Rockstar give a shit so why should they? Should just ignore their pathetic fags and release the game fully intact. |
| My Manga List My Anime List Shabada shabadabadaba I am DjG545 aka Dj Fo Fo aka The Mutha Fkn Name I'm Usin Now |
| The guy over at IGN who gave Evolve a 9/10 also approves of paying more for games. I'm not even joking. He literally said he'd like to pay more for games. |
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