Just because someone has an idea doesn't mean it is a good idea. You have been on this site longer than I have, which means you should be well aware of the fact that MAL has changed more in the past year than it has in the five years before that. Perhaps you should give that some though before complaining that changes are not being made quickly enough. Finally some problems are easier to solve than others. Just because it was possible to make this change now does not mean we have lost time that could have been spent doing something else. But see, even the bad ideas aren't acknowledged . People aren't told by mods they're bad ideas. There should be some kind of response, even to those threads, saying "no, we're not going to do this, and here's why" or "we will take this into consideration". But it all gets ignored. Also, what are you even on about? Making changes to the site has nothing to do with adding mods. It has nothing to do with people complaining for several months that nothing is being done with the slowness of the database. It's been an issue for a long time and is hardly acknowledged, and even when things are done to attempt to fix it, they take ages. Almost three months for processing applications is far too long, there's no excuse for it. Prioritise things like that, instead of implementing changes that aren't really that necessary. I'd also like to note that while I've been on the site since 2008, I've only started posting in the forums this past year or so. No real reason why I never did before. I don't claim to be an expert on anything, I'm simply stating how I see the situation at hand. I have, however, been using forums for about 12 years. And MAL is the only one I've used that's had a character requirement. You are encouraged to discuss them here, but I would encourage you to join the IRC channel too if you wish to be more in touch with the goings on in MAL. I say this based on my own experience, and it allows you to speak to the moderation team in real time which can make discussion easier. That's fair. I'm not familiar with IRC myself, and I feel like several users are put off because they don't really know what it is. Maybe we should have a general chat or something too, perhaps? Just throwing it out there. Indeed, and the moderation team understands the reasoning behind the complaints being made, but we also have the benefit of a broader perspective on the issues of the website than most of the regular users do, as well as a better idea of what is feasible. Hence we sometimes do not agree with what users suggest to us. If you understand the complaints, why don't you ever listen to them? If you talk about feasible things, implementing this is hardly "feasible" -- it's going to create too much work for the mods and just make the forums a messier place. But then I remember that we're discussing placing a very modest minimum character limit on forum posts to combat one of the site's biggest problems in recent years, and I start to wonder what happened to everyone's sense of perspective. People have legitimate complaints, especially about the recommendations and suggestions forums. I also don't think one-liners and reaction images are as big of a problem as the mods seem to think. They're hardly annoying and I don't see anything wrong with them, but that's my view. Apologies if it sounds like I'm being rude, I just disagree very strongly with how the staff handle things around here. As I said in my previous post, I'm not trying to attack or blame any one mod/staff member in particular -- it's an overall thing. |
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GaryL said: This, because like I said before. Some things don't need a continuation like adding a "What about you?" after answering someone's question.What you must understand is that minimalism is an art that should be preserved. I'm a man who can express himself concisely, and I wish I could continue doing so. |
| Let me get this straight, your going to be deleting posts/modding users who end their posts with spam just to pass the 30 character count? Well, Good luck with that then :) |
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| I think the most pressing issue has been overlooked... If you REALLY want to clear up anime discussion, you need to censor "opm" and "one-punch man," and all related spellings/misspellings. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
| I still don't really see why staff decided this was the most important issue that needed addressing? I understand spam is a thing here on MAL, but that's the case for any forums. |
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Kineta said: People have noted that there are anime and manga titles which are shorter than 15 characters. However, the Recommendations board is not a simple listing board; please take a few seconds to write why you are recommending the user that anime/manga or how it fits with their request. This board is currently a mess of duplicate threads and posts filled with only series titles and no actual discussion, and we'd really like to work towards improving this board in the future. With all due respect, when I post a thread in the recommendations forum, a post filled with only series titles and no actual discussion is generally exactly what I'm after. I'll detail out what I want in the opening post, and then what I want from the responses is the title(s) of the series that fit what I am after so that I can look into them. Any attempt to turn the recommendations forum into a discussion forum, as it seems you are threatening to do (and yes, threatening is the right word) would only serve to make it less useful for its actual purpose. Discussion would be waffle that interferes with the purpose of the board, adding nothing and only serving to get in the way of the useful response. In other words, the very definition of spam. Discussion only really comes up when someone posts something that doesn't match the suggestion, which of course is not something that you would want to happen. Of course, with this change itself one can simply post a link to the series' MAL entry (assuming that it has one), with the time wasted by the OP to read the extra stuff (although not the extra time for the responder to post it) potentially outweighing the time saved by the OP in going onto the series page. But this does precisely nothing to combat the actual issues that the recommendation forum has. AnnoKano said: It is not practical to make an exception for a single forum, and the minimum character count is already so low that it will only affect some anime titles leads us to believe this is the best possible compromise. This argument is invalid. Exceptions are already made for other forums - all you need is to give Recommendations the same character count requirement as forum games. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
| Great, now I have to share my opinion. |
VistasDec 27, 2015 5:20 AM
Max said: Bollocks. Art is communication.GaryL said: What you must understand is that minimalism is an art that should be preserved. I'm a man who can express himself concisely, and I wish I could continue doing so. Minimalism being an art is irrelevant, for discussion is not about artistic merit. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
| So....how is everyone liking the new 30 char thingy? lol...great job MAL! |
Max said: GaryL said: What you must understand is that minimalism is an art that should be preserved. I'm a man who can express himself concisely, and I wish I could continue doing so. Minimalism being an art is irrelevant, for discussion is not about artistic merit. I completely disagree. People have several ways of communicating, it's up to them to decide how they will do it. Quantity isn't relevant if the message is successfully transmitted. |
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AnnoKano said: I'm all for this rule but this is an awful attitude to have.worldeditor11 said: As I said, if it was one of the shitposts, I will accept it since clearly, I violated the rules. I have no problem with that. The problem comes when my genuine answer was flagged as Spam as well. Despite my effort in providing a decent reply, it seems that the Staff doesn't view it as such. Unjustifiable punishment is what it is. Furthermore, I proved that the rule have major issues in handling these sort of questions. I believe forum moderators can at least consider what they should do when this situation arises in the future. Follow the rules or you will be banned: there is nothing else to say on the matter. You should NOT be punishing users for the limitation this rule introduces. One of the limitations is that people can't mention single titles in the recommendations, perfectly understandable though, makes sense people have to provide a bit more insight into their pick. But limiting and punishing people for answering a yes/no question? You're out of your mind. Stopping people from simply saying thanks? Sure, whatever, but stopping someone from actually answering a question? No, that's a problem with the rule and the mods should use some common sense and understand the situation this puts the user that wants to help in, you're basically saying "no, it's not ok for you to answer this simple question, either leave this user to themselfves or go even more out of your way (PM, profile comment, etc) to help him." You mentioned this user in particular had broken the rule before, that seriously doesn't matter, are you guys completely devoid of common sense and ability to read the context? If you feel like sending a warning anyway then go go for it, but don't remove their post, that's seriously only prejudicial to everyone involved and not how it should work. |
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| I get the idea behind this, but sadly this is the mods screwing themselves over. The moderators never dealt with shitposters beforehand. Several specific users had a fun time creating more than five pointless threads while the mods did nothing. No one has gotten banned for posting simple insults or one word replies. If the mods couldn't deal with the problem before, how can we expect them to deal with it now, when they have to deal with something even worse than before? Now they have to regularly view threads (which they rarely did before, btw), highlight everyone's posts to check if they wrote a bunch of garbage in white, and ban users who mock the new rule and write something like "hihi haha 30 char limit suck my carrot". This rule is meant to reduce shitposting to make your jobs easier, but it will only make the job harder. And this will not encourage longer discussion, just saying. Users who didn't care about smart discussion before will not start having pages long debates just because they have to write something with at least 30 characters xD More than 30 characters: A dog walked into the shop with his best friend. <--- Something this short will not encourage discussion. People who didn't bother with writing long responses will just choose to not post anything instead. Also, the userbase is filled with teenagers with a native language that's not English. Don't expect most of them to write paragraphs about the depth and symbolism of animes such as Madoka Magica or start a long discussion about the true meaning of living. Most teenagers don't give a damn about having lengthier discussion, and someone who doesn't speak English as their native language will have a hard time writing paragraphs about a topic. Something that takes 10 seconds for an Englishman to write takes almost a minute for me. Also, writing a longer response that has the same meaning as the much shorter response is not encouraging discussion. If someone asks, "do you like Naruto?" and you respond with "yes", that is the same as responding with "Yes, I do like Naruto". Plus, this sounds stupid, almost like practicing words with a kindergarten kid. Kineta said: Posting insults and making bait threads were against the rules before this new rule was made, and yet barely anyone got banned for it. The shitposters have no problems with doing the exact opposite of what the mods want because they know they'll most likely not get punished.Finally, please do not fill your posts with nonsense to meet the minimum character limit...f you do, please be prepared for your post to be removed without notice and/or for you to receive a warning or ban for spam. |
GaryL said: Max said: Minimalism being an art is irrelevant, for discussion is not about artistic merit. I completely disagree. People have several ways of communicating, it's up to them to decide how they will do it. Quantity isn't relevant if the message is successfully transmitted. If you want to express yourself artistically you do that in a place where its welcomed and enforced; i.e. wordpress, blogger, tumblr. This section of MAL is a discussion forum. It's implied that your posts and wording should promote discussion and be structured in a logical manner, understandable for all. This is not a place to display your summary skills. |
| I'm really glad this finaly exists. Its in every normal internet forum. Spam is by far the most presistent issue on MAL forums so its good there is ways to discourage it more. Can't say I can relate to the negative reception of a lot of users here. There isnt a single valid reason for this to not to exist imo. Hopefully the mods will be able to handle the extra load from this. |
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xbobx said: If this is indeed the case then I advocate a name change of the Casual Discussion board. The word casual implies lacking formality which is contradicting and possibly confusing. To avoid that and possibly promoting undesired behavior it should be renamed to simply "Discussion".This section of MAL is a discussion forum. It's implied that your posts and wording should promote discussion and be structured in a logical manner, understandable for all. This is not a place to display your summary skills. |
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tsudecimo said: Hopefully the mods will be able to handle the extra load from this. Hope, a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen. The mods had their hands full before this rule change, what makes you think they will be able to withhold this rule? Only thing I see happening is number users who regularly post on the forums drop to a level to which the mods will be able to do mod properly. |
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AnnoKano said: Anyway, perhaps I can offer you some conciliation: moderators can no longer post responses like 'thread moved' anymore. We too will have to exert ourselves to writing out not just that a thread has been moved, but also specify to make sure the character limit is met. AnnoKano said: It is a heavy burden indeed but we feel it is a worthy sacrifice to improve the forums for everyone. worldeditor11 said: Yeah, everyone. Sure..... Blatant hypocrisy at its finest. No prior discussion with the community. Utmost secrecy with the Staff internal workings. No wonder we have trust issues between the Staff and the general community. I have to agree with worldeditor11...it seems that the mods themselves are acting like this is some burden, even though they are the ones that implemented it? It's a weird trick trying to get users to "sympathize" with the mods even though those very same people implemented this new rule. I understand AnnoKano was trying to say that it affects everyone who uses forums, even mods, but it almost sounds patronizing. "Oh no, we can no longer write thread moved....we too are experiencing these new annoying rules...." It doesn't really seem like conciliation, more like proof this new system is not needed. It just seems so stupid. Why can't the mods write thread moved? Why would a system be put in place that prohibits such basic posts? Still have no idea why this was the most pressing issue for MAL. |
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Paulo27 said: I'm all for this rule but this is an awful attitude to have. You should NOT be punishing users for the limitation this rule introduces. One of the limitations is that people can't mention single titles in the recommendations, perfectly understandable though, makes sense people have to provide a bit more insight into their pick. But limiting and punishing people for answering a yes/no question? You're out of your mind. Stopping people from simply saying thanks? Sure, whatever, but stopping someone from actually answering a question? No, that's a problem with the rule and the mods should use some common sense and understand the situation this puts the user that wants to help in, you're basically saying "no, it's not ok for you to answer this simple question, either leave this user to themselfves or go even more out of your way (PM, profile comment, etc) to help him." You mentioned this user in particular had broken the rule before, that seriously doesn't matter, are you guys completely devoid of common sense and ability to read the context? If you feel like sending a warning anyway then go go for it, but don't remove their post, that's seriously only prejudicial to everyone involved and not how it should work. What you are failing to realise is that we are not going to make exceptions for the kind of discussions you are talking about because they are not the kind of discussions that belong on a forum. There are innumerable other places where you can have such discussions: club comments, profile comments, even irc chat rooms. Use these places if you wish to have this kind of discussion. Not only will it save you the trouble of having to try and dodge your way around the rules, these places are actually designed to provide what you people are looking for: a place for casual chatting. |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
| A few further thoughts about the limit. TL;DR at the bottom. As it stands, I believe that a 30+ character limit fails in both preventing spam and encouraging discussion, but succeeds in just pissing people off when their genuine, pertinent, non-spam replies results in their receiving a warning for spamming. As for preventing spam replies, gifs, image reactions and the like - as the moderators themselves have stated, 30 charaters is not a lot. Therefore, the spammers and shitposters, the ones who caused this rule to come about in the first place are barely being inconvenienced at all. If someone has gone into a thread with the intent to derail and spam, they aren't going to care at all about having to post 5 or 6 extra words of gobbledegook. As for encouraging discussion - 30+ characters is way too short to cause such a thing. as Anno said - Frankly, I think this requirement is too lenient, if anything. I do not think it's unreasonable to expect people to write at least a complete paragraph of text when responding to a thread: this isn't twitter. 30 characters is too lenient when the desired intent is encouraging longer replies to invite discussion. It's literally a sentence or two; how can they be considered as adding to a discussion? It's a very arbitrary line when you say "One sentence is spam and doesn't contribute to discussion, but two sentences is perfectly fine since that obviously is very thought provoking". If encouraging real discussions is the intent, then you might as well impose a larger limit, such as 100, or 150, or whatever arbitrary number you decide is best. I wouldn't agree with such a limit, but it certainly achieves the desired effect in a far better way. So seeing as the two main intended effects of this change are not being achieved in any way, shape or form, what are you left with? Irritating users by having them reported and warned for spamming because their genuine answers and replies haven't been fluffed out with useless spam. Because, at the end of the day - that is what it is. Spam. Forcing someone to increase their word count even when it is unnecessary can surely only be considered as spam, because it's of no use to the discussion at hand. Another issue with the limit is how black and white it is. As I said in my previous post on the second page : not every post or topic warrants a longer answer. The first example given was that if someone is looking for an anime and posts a picture asking where it's from, and I were to reply with that anime's name - I'd be flagged for spamming. That's completely inane. Rather than just replying with the name of the show, I have to fluff it out. "That picture you posted, the name of the show you are looking for, it is this show that I am here about to name ..." A little exaggerated, yes, but you get the idea. There are simply many topics that do not warrant longer responses, whether it be the topic they are talking about, or the way the OP posed the thread. If a post is very specific and direct, it constricts any possible answers. Not to mention that many people, such as myself, can be quite concise at times. I always used to face this issue at college, writing an essay in 1500 words when the limit is 2000, or writing 1-2 pages where everyone else writes 3-5. Naturally, this is all relative and can be reflected in some of my replies which fail to meet the 30character limit. Perfectly valid replies that accurately convey whatever it was I was trying to say, mind you, but which are now classed as spamming. I just don't see the sense in arbitrarily fluffing out a sentence; the idea that it somehow contributes to discussions more is a silly one. I'd also like to point out that by the very fact that I've taken the time to type out this fairly long post quite clearly demonstrates that I have absolutely no aversion whatsoever to posting larger replies / comments etc. With that in mind, I'm still quite commonly finding myself inconvenienced by the 30 character limit. I'm not someone who consistently shitposts short things that offer nothing of value to any threads. If anyone wanted, I'd be more than willing to find some of my other larger posts in various threads which demonstrate my lack of aversion to long replies. But seeing as I often do the very thing you're trying to encourage - posting lengthy replies which have various points of discussion - I'm clearly not the type of user you had in mind when coming up with this rule. And for what it's worth - I actually agree with what you're trying to do. I got so fuckin' sick of seeing those bait pictures spammed in every single thread (I even made this thread on the suggestions forum in order to reduce the amount of picture spam...) and I'm often irritated by the shitposting that occurs every single day, by the same users. But the way you're going about this is completely and utterly wrong, IMO. The bottom line is - I agree with your intentions, but this fails on every single aspect of the intended desires and effects. I do hope that any Moderators who take the time to read this post will actually consider the points I brought up, and not just shrug them off as baseless complaints. TL;DR - 30+ character limit does NOT prevent spam, and it does NOT encourage bigger discussions or posts. These are the TWO INTENDED EFFECTS and it succeeds in NEITHER. The ONE thing it DOES achieve is pissing off your genuine users. My suggestion would be to remove the limit and impose more moderation on the shitposters. |
MazDec 27, 2015 1:41 PM
 It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
Maka said: I have to agree with worldeditor11... Then I'm afraid you're probably the only one who didn't understand the joke. Maka said: it seems that the mods themselves are acting like this is some burden, even though they are the ones that implemented it? It's a weird trick trying to get users to "sympathize" with the mods even though those very same people implemented this new rule. Or perhaps the implication was something completely different. Maka said: I understand AnnoKano was trying to say that it affects everyone who uses forums, even mods, but it almost sounds patronizing. "Oh no, we can no longer write thread moved....we too are experiencing these new annoying rules...." Warm. Maka said: It doesn't really seem like conciliation WARMER. Maka said: more like proof this new system is not needed. So close, and yet so far. Maka said: It just seems so stupid. Why can't the mods write thread moved? Why would a system be put in place that prohibits such basic posts? Still have no idea why this was the most pressing issue for MAL. Please read through the posts that were not sarcastic again. |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
AnnoKano said: And you're failing to realise that answering or asking a question is not the same as having a discussion, and not every single comment you make needs to be discussing something for it to be relevant (at least not in the sense that's a long post discussing something), even if it's on a Discussion forum. Paulo27 said: I'm all for this rule but this is an awful attitude to have. You should NOT be punishing users for the limitation this rule introduces. One of the limitations is that people can't mention single titles in the recommendations, perfectly understandable though, makes sense people have to provide a bit more insight into their pick. But limiting and punishing people for answering a yes/no question? You're out of your mind. Stopping people from simply saying thanks? Sure, whatever, but stopping someone from actually answering a question? No, that's a problem with the rule and the mods should use some common sense and understand the situation this puts the user that wants to help in, you're basically saying "no, it's not ok for you to answer this simple question, either leave this user to themselfves or go even more out of your way (PM, profile comment, etc) to help him." You mentioned this user in particular had broken the rule before, that seriously doesn't matter, are you guys completely devoid of common sense and ability to read the context? If you feel like sending a warning anyway then go go for it, but don't remove their post, that's seriously only prejudicial to everyone involved and not how it should work. What you are failing to realise is that we are not going to make exceptions for the kind of discussions you are talking about because they are not the kind of discussions that belong on a forum. There are innumerable other places where you can have such discussions: club comments, profile comments, even irc chat rooms. Use these places if you wish to have this kind of discussion. Not only will it save you the trouble of having to try and dodge your way around the rules, these places are actually designed to provide what you people are looking for: a place for casual chatting. Or are you saying the forums aren't a place for asking or answering questions? Because those things aren't casual chatting, and that's not the issue I brought up. |
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| Tachii junior, you can argue whether it was needed or not, This rule is here, and it should be enforced no? Ending your post with "!and nothing else I Just kept typing because of the 30 character bullshit." Or spamming "___________________" Are these not offensive against this rule? I'd rather discuss how these "offenses" will be dealt with, post deletes, sending the user a warning, exactly what is being planned. |
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Nightwing said: Tachii junior Now that's just cruel. Nightwing said: you can argue whether it was needed or not, This rule is here, and it should be enforced no? I'm responding to those questions because they are what appear to be the pressing issues for most people. It's also the stuff I can provide an answer for. Nightwing said: Ending your post with "!and nothing else I Just kept typing because of the 30 character bullshit." Or spamming "___________________" Are these not offensive against this rule? I would say so. Nightwing said: I'd rather discuss how these "offenses" will be dealt with, post deletes, sending the user a warning, exactly what is being planned. According to the very first post, they will be deleted without warning or the user will receive a warning/ban for spamming. |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
| Seems I have been made a fool of. I might not be the sharpest person in the discussion, but I can at least admit to it. However, unless I have made a mistake again, I still have no idea why this rule is implemented, and AnnoKanno, the only mod willing to actually argue with anyone, is not providing that much help. |
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Maka said: I'm sorry, Maka. Unfortunately, we do not have much time to explain one-on-one to each user about a feature which is commonplace on many forums. There are too many other things which need to be done to maintain the site... particularly when users are immaturely and purposefully breaking new rules.I still have no idea why this rule is implemented, and AnnoKanno, the only mod willing to actually argue with anyone, is not providing that much help. Please have a read through the first post, the initial posts by the mods again, and a few other users who gave good arguments for the system. (Note: I write long OPs to explain things.) This is why the feature was implemented. Is the limit working now? No, because people always need time to get used to change, and some unfortunately do that by behaving like spoiled children. But it will. Everything in this world has pros and cons. Nothing is black or white. We implemented it for the pros, understanding the cons. You may not feel it was necessary, but we did and do. It's not worth me taking two more hours to debate about it, when the result will be the same and the site can better benefit by those two hours spent elsewhere. I'm sorry if that sounds rigid, but I'm being pragmatic. So please humour us; whether you agree with our decisions or not, we have the forum's best interests in mind. |
| I feel quite honored Kineta responded to me. When it really comes down to it, this is a small issue and the community will adapt to it, as what happens in these types of internet forums. I realize arguing and complaining about this will not fix anything because often times what the userbase wants is not reflected in what happens see tumblr, last.fm etc. My main concern is actually an issue I brought up earlier. I contribute to 'Help Identifying This Anime/Character' Thread often, but with this rule implemented, it kind of breaks the purpose of the thread. As ItsMaz stated above, it becomes extremely arduous trying to get around these new rules as the thread in question is set up to be often short questions and answers, like this example. I feel I will get reported for spam for adding ....... and whatnot to the end of my posts on that thread, even though I just am trying to do what was the thread's original intention. Edit: added example |
MakaDec 27, 2015 6:05 PM
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Nightwing said: There's nothing to discuss. It was explained before that they will be treated like any other spam offense, since that's petty much what it comes down to.I'd rather discuss how these "offenses" will be dealt with, post deletes, sending the user a warning, exactly what is being planned. If you blatantly fill your post with nonsense, it will be deleted without notice. If you are found to be repeatedly doing it, you'll be subject to the same warnings/bans that anyone else would be for creating a string of spam threads. We figured we'd go easy at first because we knew that some people would purposely evade the limit. That's what Kineta meant about being spoiled. "Well they told me I can't, but I'll do it anyway. That'll show'em!" Yeah...okay. Edit: I've got some time to kill before bed (about an hour) so I'll shoot with anyone around. Unless, of course, anyone thinks I'm being lazy and not doing my job? |
NTADDec 27, 2015 9:00 PM
NTAD said: Unless, of course, anyone thinks I'm being lazy and not doing my job?  |
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| Man, come on. I'm here trying to be candid and you wanna make puns D: |
NTAD said: But it was punny. Okay I'll stop. I don't have much to say other than what I already have. With Kineta's most recent post it's clear any opposition is futile and null unless the feature fails to do its job, but considering the communities complacency I have few doubts it won't fail. Especially if results aren't pronounced across the boards. Thanks for trying to be candid though.Man, come on. I'm here trying to be candid and you wanna make puns D: |
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Astros said: NTAD said: Unless, of course, anyone thinks I'm being lazy and not doing my job? Made me laugh. Kineta said: Unfortunately, we do not have much time to explain one-on-one to each user about a feature which is commonplace on many forums. There are too many other things which need to be done to maintain the site... particularly when users are immaturely and purposefully breaking new rules. Is the limit working now? No, because people always need time to get used to change, and some unfortunately do that by behaving like spoiled children. I'm firmly against the rule change. Why would I patiently and maturely argue against the rule change? I've done that before and I know what happens if I do: nothing. Other people are doing so now and will get the same non-result. Instead because I 'behaved immaturely' I managed to get one of the mods salty and we're still allowed to post one word or one image responses. The only thing to get used to is the copy-paste function. All you've done is make it slightly more bothersome to post on your own forums. Well done... |
CaelidesuDec 27, 2015 9:49 PM
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
NTAD said: Edit: I've got some time to kill before bed (about an hour) so I'll shoot with anyone around. Unless, of course, anyone thinks I'm being lazy and not doing my job? You obviously aren't, as there are a crap ton of listing threads that need to be locked and threads need to be moved to their respective show sub-thread. |
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| I think it's worth remembering that MAL is a privately owned business. Why should MAL operate as if it were a public and democratic institution? That said, MAL's success depends on having a large, happy, and engaged user base. Increasing the quality and quantity of the user base — by which I mean improving the number and quality of user interactions — is perhaps the core job of MAL's staff. But while that job naturally involves listening to and communicating with existing users, the power to make decisions is still entirely centralized. The question of whether of a given change is good or bad — ie. whether it contributes to a long run improvement in the quality or quantity of user interactions — can be thought of as an empirical question, albeit a difficult one to answer. MAL's staff is betting that the answer is "yes", even while acknowledging that some users will not like it. Time will tell. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
Kineta said: Maka said: I'm sorry, Maka. Unfortunately, we do not have much time to explain one-on-one to each user about a feature which is commonplace on many forums. There are too many other things which need to be done to maintain the site... particularly when users are immaturely and purposefully breaking new rules.I still have no idea why this rule is implemented, and AnnoKanno, the only mod willing to actually argue with anyone, is not providing that much help. Please have a read through the first post, the initial posts by the mods again, and a few other users who gave good arguments for the system. (Note: I write long OPs to explain things.) This is why the feature was implemented. Is the limit working now? No, because people always need time to get used to change, and some unfortunately do that by behaving like spoiled children. But it will. Everything in this world has pros and cons. Nothing is black or white. We implemented it for the pros, understanding the cons. You may not feel it was necessary, but we did and do. It's not worth me taking two more hours to debate about it, when the result will be the same and the site can better benefit by those two hours spent elsewhere. I'm sorry if that sounds rigid, but I'm being pragmatic. So please humour us; whether you agree with our decisions or not, we have the forum's best interests in mind. You heard it here everyone! MAL is being run by fascists! Staff dictates without community input, we'd be damned. @Kineta: 5+ pages on this thread and previous changes feedback threads didn't think the staff has the best interest of the community in mind. In essence, staff's all keeping quiet and sweeping everything under the rug. Elitism at its finest. |
|
| As luck would have it, my post was very timely. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
OppaiSugoi said: Kineta said: I'm sorry, Maka. Unfortunately, we do not have much time to explain one-on-one to each user about a feature which is commonplace on many forums. There are too many other things which need to be done to maintain the site... particularly when users are immaturely and purposefully breaking new rules. Please have a read through the first post, the initial posts by the mods again, and a few other users who gave good arguments for the system. (Note: I write long OPs to explain things.) This is why the feature was implemented. Is the limit working now? No, because people always need time to get used to change, and some unfortunately do that by behaving like spoiled children. But it will. Everything in this world has pros and cons. Nothing is black or white. We implemented it for the pros, understanding the cons. You may not feel it was necessary, but we did and do. It's not worth me taking two more hours to debate about it, when the result will be the same and the site can better benefit by those two hours spent elsewhere. I'm sorry if that sounds rigid, but I'm being pragmatic. So please humour us; whether you agree with our decisions or not, we have the forum's best interests in mind. You heard it here everyone! MAL is being run by fascists! Staff dictates without community input, we'd be damned. @Kineta: 5+ pages on this thread and previous changes feedback threads didn't think the staff has the best interest of the community in mind. In essence, staff's all keeping quiet and sweeping everything under the rug. Elitism at its finest. come on they run and own the site, we just give suggestions and feedback but they have the final say on what will be implemented or change thats how all forums work, even social media sites like facebook and twitter and etc, i have never seen a business and popular oriented forum/website that is driven by community input what we only can do is to give more feedback when possible like on this thread, but if we have the choice to give feedback then like i said they have the choice to ignore the feedback too |
| Might I also add to the worldeditor11's response is that MAL puts ads for a reason. Like any business, the consumers can and will leave if they are not happy with the product. |
|
OppaiSugoi said: If anime has taught me anything is that you're not wrong as long as you truly believe what you do is right, so faito MAL!Kineta said: I'm sorry, Maka. Unfortunately, we do not have much time to explain one-on-one to each user about a feature which is commonplace on many forums. There are too many other things which need to be done to maintain the site... particularly when users are immaturely and purposefully breaking new rules. Please have a read through the first post, the initial posts by the mods again, and a few other users who gave good arguments for the system. (Note: I write long OPs to explain things.) This is why the feature was implemented. Is the limit working now? No, because people always need time to get used to change, and some unfortunately do that by behaving like spoiled children. But it will. Everything in this world has pros and cons. Nothing is black or white. We implemented it for the pros, understanding the cons. You may not feel it was necessary, but we did and do. It's not worth me taking two more hours to debate about it, when the result will be the same and the site can better benefit by those two hours spent elsewhere. I'm sorry if that sounds rigid, but I'm being pragmatic. So please humour us; whether you agree with our decisions or not, we have the forum's best interests in mind. You heard it here everyone! MAL is being run by fascists! Staff dictates without community input, we'd be damned. @Kineta: 5+ pages on this thread and previous changes feedback threads didn't think the staff has the best interest of the community in mind. In essence, staff's all keeping quiet and sweeping everything under the rug. Elitism at its finest. |
|
| Oh, by the way: I like the quick edit change. That one was good. It's not like literally every change you've made to this site has been a complete disaster. Just this [30] and utterly ruining the review section. |
CaelidesuDec 27, 2015 10:36 PM
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
| i was ninja'd by Josh already about MAL being another business like any other popular forums and websites out there |
NTAD said: Still wondering how mods intend to deal with the limitations this rule introduces or if they really are out to get anyone who doesn't abid by it without even looking at the context.Nightwing said: There's nothing to discuss. It was explained before that they will be treated like any other spam offense, since that's petty much what it comes down to.I'd rather discuss how these "offenses" will be dealt with, post deletes, sending the user a warning, exactly what is being planned. If you blatantly fill your post with nonsense, it will be deleted without notice. If you are found to be repeatedly doing it, you'll be subject to the same warnings/bans that anyone else would be for creating a string of spam threads. We figured we'd go easy at first because we knew that some people would purposely evade the limit. That's what Kineta meant about being spoiled. "Well they told me I can't, but I'll do it anyway. That'll show'em!" Yeah...okay. Edit: I've got some time to kill before bed (about an hour) so I'll shoot with anyone around. Unless, of course, anyone thinks I'm being lazy and not doing my job? |
|
Paulo27 said: Still wondering how mods intend to deal with the limitations this rule introduces or if they really are out to get anyone who doesn't abid by it without even looking at the context. It's more work for them now. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
worldeditor11 said: j0x said: thats how all forums work, even social media sites like facebook and twitter and etc, i have never seen a business and popular oriented forum/website that is driven by community input Those sites you have mentioned have long since established their functions and generally, work as intended. All social media sites start out with basic functionalities - with bug fixes, site optimisation and additional features only to be added on later based on overall community suggestions. Just like what MAL did with the new notification system and profile design overhaul. there are lots of hate against any changes made on facebook and twitter and even reddit too just like the hate MAL staff are getting, but those sites just ignored those feedback while just allowing their users to continually give feedback as much as possible and this minimum character limit is present on other forums as well, its not new to MAL at all, it was made with good intention, only forum moderators should really the one to complain about this since this will be added work for them because of the huge number of spam rules breaking, but i think the moderators all agreed to this too |
j0x said: and this minimum character limit is present on other forums as well, its not new to MAL at all, it was made with good intention Intention means nothing. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
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