| Lightning is a boring self-insert character, the other characters don't really stand out. It is very far from its roots, which most former fans feel is very alienating. Also, the fact that it got more sequels than any other FF (excluding 7) is enough to rile some people up. If one of the worst ones gets that many sequels, where are the sequels/remakes of the best ones. |
| No control over your party members, fucking terrible writing (most of the story is told in-menu POST actual in-game events from what I remember... wtf?), dumbed down RPG mechanics (does the game even have stats...? the grid-sphere thing is a major step down from X and might as well not exist) and painstakingly linear environments (don't get me wrong, X had this too, but most of them are literally narrow-ass paths in XIII). I mean, really the game isn't terrible overall, but compared to the rest of the main series it's pretty embarrassing. Soundtrack and visuals though... <3 |
| Because it's really linear up until archlyte steppe, which is really late in the game. It's way too easy and pretty much plays itself. I don't know why everybody hates Lightning though, she's one of the most lifelike cardboard cut-outs I've ever seen. I'm only speaking about XIII btw, I haven't played the others. |
toolazytopick said: Because it's really linear up until archlyte steppe, which is really late in the game. It's way too easy and pretty much plays itself. I don't know why everybody hates Lightning though, she's one of the most lifelike cardboard cut-outs I've ever seen. I'm only speaking about XIII btw, I haven't played the others. A cardboard cut out is still a cardboard cut out. |
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| Because the story withholds crucial information from the player for the sake of making the narrative as obtuse as possible and flashbacks come hours after they would have made much more sense to reveal. The characters aren't anything special either: Lightning Lightning is not a bad character, but she's also not a good one. The fact that Square Enix seems to think that she is spectacular is incredibly annoying and turning off fans that wanted to leave behind the bad taste that XIII left in their mouth. Hope I think I liked this character better when he was called Shinji Ikari. Indeed, I feel that if Hope were named Despair, he would be more bearable. Every time you see 'Hope' about to fall to the floor with his head in his hands and externalize his angst, mentally replace it with 'Despair'. See how much more manageable this is? And while I still prefer the "kid as a whiny twat who doesn't understand everything" angle over the "sarcasm, cynicism and decision-making ability of a 40 year old stuffed into a 10 year old body" angle, so much of the development and brotherly moments with Snow are thrown away by THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP. Snow Snow was created in a factory that pumps out generic anime protagonists. For awhile, I thought they were going to give him a story line wherein he discovers a room of other bland, generic protagonists in test tubes and begin questioning who he really is. Sadly, this never happens. Vanille Vanille is not so much a human as she is a golem, locked into one emotion. Her story is much more tragic once you begin seeing her as a robot desperately trying to emulate human emotional behavior, instead of an actual person. Serah "Lets give this character a really important role in the story but not really ever explore it adequately enough for people to give a shit!" Sazh Only decent character tbh. |
| Story and character wise it borrowed too heavily from past games, the plot itself was confusing as hell but what's actually the problem is it being incredibly poorly told and badly paced. I'll give them credit for trying to experiment with the gameplay but it felt like a huge step-back from FF10, a game where the amount of non-interactivity was already a major problem. The two postives I can attribute are the graphics and music, it definitely has the best battle theme of the whole franchise. CondemneDio said: Lightning is a boring self-insert character, the other characters don't really stand out. It is very far from its roots, which most former fans feel is very alienating. Also, the fact that it got more sequels than any other FF (excluding 7) is enough to rile some people up. If one of the worst ones gets that many sequels, where are the sequels/remakes of the best ones. I'm a huge fanboy for FF7 and honestly, the compilation did more damage to FF7's overarching story and characters than it did good. If I were you I wouldn't want my favorite game's legacy to be pissed on by a glut of bottom-of-the-barrel sequels/spin-offs, unless the story absolutely needed to be followed up on. |
ExampleZ said: CondemneDio said: Lightning is a boring self-insert character, the other characters don't really stand out. It is very far from its roots, which most former fans feel is very alienating. Also, the fact that it got more sequels than any other FF (excluding 7) is enough to rile some people up. If one of the worst ones gets that many sequels, where are the sequels/remakes of the best ones. I'm a huge fanboy for FF7 and honestly, the compilation did more damage to FF7's overarching story and characters than it did good. If I were you I wouldn't want my favorite game's legacy to be pissed on by a glut of bottom-of-the-barrel sequels/spin-offs, unless the story absolutely needed to be followed up on. Yeah, not all sequels are a good thing. I just think there are other FF's than 13 which were worth a sequel, or a spin-off. FF9 gets no love, but I'd like to see more of it. |
| Too streamlined. Went through the effort of building these gigantic worlds but not letting you visit much of them. The downgrade from Final Fantasy 12's open world exploration to Final Fantasy 13's linear corridor fest was just downright offensive. The game developed Serah very poorly, so nobody could give two shits about her turning into a crystal. Snow's flashbacks didn't help very much in motivating the player either... The downgrade from Final Fantasy 12's gambit system to paradigms was just as offensive. The ending being a textbook example of deus ex machina. I would have actually liked the game if they died nobly as crystals. Hard capped stat progression. No towns, no interactive NPCs, no moogles, etc. The game lacked immersive elements that make you feel like you're actually in a world that's worth protecting. Why save a world that feels so empty and shallow? There's more but eh |
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| Press X to win |
| absolutely boring battle system. The graphics and the music are its only redeeming features. ExampleZ said: Story and character wise it borrowed too heavily from past games, the plot itself was confusing as hell but what's actually the problem is it being incredibly poorly told and badly paced. I'll give them credit for trying to experiment with the gameplay but it felt like a huge step-back from FF10, a game where the amount of non-interactivity was already a major problem. FF10 was highly interactive, what are you talking about? I don't remember not being able to customize my weapons or change my characters. I don't remember not being able to customize my characters any way I want. I don't remember not being able to do what I want even in the linear corridors of the game, I also don't remember not being able to talk to 5-10 NPCs per map (pretty standard for an RPG), and I certainly don't remember not being able to play a multitude of minigames to unlock secrets. I shit on FF10 all the time but the gameplay is absolutely the last reason you should be shitting on it. |
Syrup-Nov 28, 2015 2:47 AM
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Syrup- said: absolutely boring battle system. The graphics and the music are its only redeeming features. ExampleZ said: Story and character wise it borrowed too heavily from past games, the plot itself was confusing as hell but what's actually the problem is it being incredibly poorly told and badly paced. I'll give them credit for trying to experiment with the gameplay but it felt like a huge step-back from FF10, a game where the amount of non-interactivity was already a major problem. FF10 was highly interactive, what are you talking about? I don't remember not being able to customize my weapons or change my characters. I don't remember not being able to customize my characters any way I want. I don't remember not being able to do what I want even in the linear corridors of the game, I also don't remember not being able to talk to 5-10 NPCs per map (pretty standard for an RPG), and I certainly don't remember not being able to play a multitude of minigames to unlock secrets. I shit on FF10 all the time but the gameplay is absolutely the last reason you should be shitting on it. Well there's the whole game being a straight line from one tediously long unskippable cutscene to the next. Anyway I love FF10's gameplay and consider the combat to be the best of the series, but when a game has more cutscenes than the typical MGS it becomes a problem. And as for customizing characters, I think the materia system did it better; the sphere grid was a bit too grindy by comparison and eventually everyone started overlapping each other. |
| because I'm waiting for 8's sequel forever and there goes 13 with trilogy. fuck that |
INTP (Ne) A hound, begging for scraps at the emperor's table |
| Because the game is awful and still somehow got sequels for whatever reasons. Terrible system, meh characters and the story isn't anything interesting either. |
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ExampleZ said: Yeah I do agree. It was a story game, and Final Fantasy was a series that prioritized story over game play in a lot of cases, but FFX takes it to extreme. I didn't know what you meant before but I think I get it now.Syrup- said: absolutely boring battle system. The graphics and the music are its only redeeming features. FF10 was highly interactive, what are you talking about? I don't remember not being able to customize my weapons or change my characters. I don't remember not being able to customize my characters any way I want. I don't remember not being able to do what I want even in the linear corridors of the game, I also don't remember not being able to talk to 5-10 NPCs per map (pretty standard for an RPG), and I certainly don't remember not being able to play a multitude of minigames to unlock secrets. I shit on FF10 all the time but the gameplay is absolutely the last reason you should be shitting on it. Well there's the whole game being a straight line from one tediously long unskippable cutscene to the next. Anyway I love FF10's gameplay and consider the combat to be the best of the series, but when a game has more cutscenes than the typical MGS it becomes a problem. And as for customizing characters, I think the materia system did it better; the sphere grid was a bit too grindy by comparison and eventually everyone started overlapping each other. |
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| The hate was amplified because the hate itself was popular. FF12 is the worst FF since FF2 and plenty of it consider it to be the worst out of the series, praising only its battle system, yet FF13 hate is more outspoken, maybe since it came out after 12, but mostly because the hate for it was popular. That's not to say there's reasons not to dislike the game, but it also had a lot going for it. The story was great and the music and scenery were amazing. The characters, whatever you thought about them, were at the very least all an improvement over 12. Unfortunately, FF13 is the victim of nostalgia glasses. Everything pre-FFX is basically god level, never to be trumped in a million years. |
Thrashinuva said: The hate was amplified because the hate itself was popular. FF12 is the worst FF since FF2 and plenty of it consider it to be the worst out of the series, praising only its battle system, yet FF13 hate is more outspoken, maybe since it came out after 12, but mostly because the hate for it was popular. That's not to say there's reasons not to dislike the game, but it also had a lot going for it. The story was great and the music and scenery were amazing. The characters, whatever you thought about them, were at the very least all an improvement over 12. Unfortunately, FF13 is the victim of nostalgia glasses. Everything pre-FFX is basically god level, never to be trumped in a million years. >FF12 >BAD please explain yourself |
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Syrup- said: Thrashinuva said: The hate was amplified because the hate itself was popular. FF12 is the worst FF since FF2 and plenty of it consider it to be the worst out of the series, praising only its battle system, yet FF13 hate is more outspoken, maybe since it came out after 12, but mostly because the hate for it was popular. That's not to say there's reasons not to dislike the game, but it also had a lot going for it. The story was great and the music and scenery were amazing. The characters, whatever you thought about them, were at the very least all an improvement over 12. Unfortunately, FF13 is the victim of nostalgia glasses. Everything pre-FFX is basically god level, never to be trumped in a million years. >FF12 >BAD please explain yourself Vaan is the main character. |
Thrashinuva said: Syrup- said: >FF12 >BAD please explain yourself Vaan is the main character. Is he though? He's tagged as the 'main protagonist' but it's really not his story at all. |
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| I remember FF13 hate being pretty much bandwagon hate. It was just the hip thing to do back in the day. Like they aren't particularly good games, but they aren't the bottom of the barrel like people make them out to be. Average is the right word. But I guess only two extremes exist on the internet. It either makes your dick solid hard with a 10/10, or is the worst thing you have ever played 1/10. I don't know how Final Fantasy fans have problems with the gameplay. Press X to win doesn't even work most of the time and you have to change paradigm (don't tell me people hated this?). And you could level up weapons and accessory which was cool. The worst part was the map design indeed, not because it's "linear" but because it's a bland corridor. All FF games were linear so singling FF13 out makes no sense. And the story itself wasn't terrible, just too confusing for its own good. They kept throwing made up terms over and over without giving much explanation what each thing is. Of course you could read everything in-depth in the menu, but fuck RPGs that force you to do that. Can't say anything about FF13-2 and 13-3 though since I only played FF13. |
 "Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
rebornnora said: FF13 is my first final fantasy series i ever bought and i didnt regret a thing buying it. as in right now, im really a fan of FF13 series. from there on, i bought dissidia and other franchises as well. from what all the people say, most of them hate FF13. even Maximillion Dude hate lightning. (Lightning is my favorite animated female character) why do some people hate this specific game? i love every single FF series and im not fucking lying. Which FF games have you played besides 13 and Dissidia? |
ZetaZaku said: opinion discardedAll FF games were linear so singling FF13 out makes no sense. Thrashinuva said: and FFX is the worst FF because Tidus is the main characterVaan is the main character. |
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| The story, and character personalities. That and they probably think the last good game was 7 or 8. |
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Syrup- said: ZetaZaku said: opinion discardedAll FF games were linear so singling FF13 out makes no sense. Are you trying to say that they weren't? |
"Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
ZetaZaku said: I'm trying to say anyone who says they were linear doesn't have an opinion worth listening to.Syrup- said: opinion discarded Are you trying to say that they weren't? Not even the first game was linear. Hell, the only reason people shit all over FF6 because the second half is so non-linear. People shit all over FF13 for being linear because there isn't anything more to do but go forward and fight the boss, or go backward and grind off the pathetic EXP/CP rates. Several illusions of choice are presented to you such as the Crystarium and Weapon Refinement systems, but those are laughable in that they impact the game only in the slightest. Only FF10 comes as close to FF13 for linearity. |
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Syrup- said: People shit all over FF13 for being linear because there isn't anything more to do but go forward and fight the boss, or go backward and grind off the pathetic EXP/CP rates. Congrats, you described all Final Fantasy games (except world of ruin). Just because they had overworld, it doesn't make them less linear than FF. You always had a clear destination in older FF games, so you always went from A to B, without really straying from the straight path. Main difference is that older FF games had backtracking, while FF13 was pushing forward. Like I said in my post, it's the bad design that makes FFXIII feel more linear than other games, since you are literally walking through long corridors. |
"Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
ZetaZaku said: >what are subquestsSyrup- said: People shit all over FF13 for being linear because there isn't anything more to do but go forward and fight the boss, or go backward and grind off the pathetic EXP/CP rates. Congrats, you described all Final Fantasy games (except world of ruin). Just because they had overworld, it doesn't make them less linear than FF. You always had a clear destination in older FF games, so you always went from A to B, without really straying from the straight path. Main difference is that older FF games had backtracking, while FF13 was pushing forward. Like I said in my post, it's the bad design that makes FFXIII feel more linear than other games, since you are literally walking through long corridors. >what are the many different ways to challenge the game >what are gameplay mechanics such as steal honestly you're not convincing me. The open world of Final Fantasy was more than just non-linear, it allowed you to get sidetracked listening to the NPCs and explore the world. Going to point A -> B is literally every RPG ever, and arguably every game ever. Even if it's "non-linear" you still converge upon the same point. So if you want to argue that the entire franchise of Final Fantasy was linear you are apathetic to any sort of variation. |
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| FFXIII had sub-quests as well. Not like sub-quests were a major thing in FF games, just a way to get the ultimate weapon in some of them. FFXIII had most of that, you could talk with NPC as well. The only difference between them is the level design, which was the worst part of FFXIII. I'm just saying that complaining how FFXIII is "linear' while others aren't is stupid. That's not the game's problem. Bad map design is its problem, since not only does it feature corridors, all of them look bland and forgettable. |
"Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
Thrashinuva said: Unfortunately, FF13 is the victim of nostalgia glasses. Everything pre-FFX is basically god level, never to be trumped in a million years. Even FF2? Any FF pre XI can be considered a victim of nostalgia glasses, I don't see how that applies to XIII which came out only five years ago. EDIT: Also wasn't the reason we got two XIII sequels because XIV vanilla did so horribly and Square Enix desperately needed a quick profit? |
ExampleZNov 28, 2015 12:43 PM
| Because it sucks. Not much else really. |
ExampleZ said: Thrashinuva said: Unfortunately, FF13 is the victim of nostalgia glasses. Everything pre-FFX is basically god level, never to be trumped in a million years. Even FF2? Except FF2. Any FF pre XI can be considered a victim of nostalgia glasses, I don't see how that applies to XIII which came out only five years ago. 13 is the victim, as in, because of nostalgia glasses, people view 13 as a bad FF. EDIT: Also wasn't the reason we got two XIII sequels because XIV vanilla did so horribly and Square Enix desperately needed a quick profit? Square has plenty of money as they're also a publisher. The 13 sequels had nothing to do with 15, but 15's failure did impact the company tremendously and would have made people lose faith in the company if they hadn't done what they did and completely reworked the game. My best guess which is what my guess has been ever since 13 was announced, is that 13 and it's sequels were "practice" for the development teams, to see what they could do and what the consumers wanted from their games, and how they could evolve the series. |
Manganese said: Thrashinuva said: Vaan is the main character. Is he though? He's tagged as the 'main protagonist' but it's really not his story at all. He is, and that is a huge problem. Syrup- said: and FFX is the worst FF because Tidus is the main character It's fine to take that stance and there's a large portion of the fan base that agrees with you, but a larger portion of the fan base considers Vaan the worst out of everything FF4 and up, even including the Lightning haters. Also at least Tidus had a personality. Also games in general are linear by nature. Life itself is linear. You can only live until you die. It's true that you could say FF is linear and it would be correct, but the extremity of what you mean is important. That's why we label FF13 as linear because of its corridors, and pre-13 FF's as not linear since they don't consist of corridors. |
Thrashinuva said: Manganese said: Is he though? He's tagged as the 'main protagonist' but it's really not his story at all. He is, and that is a huge problem. I would disagree with you but to each their own. |
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Manganese said: Thrashinuva said: He is, and that is a huge problem. I would disagree with you but to each their own. How much denial you're in is how big of a problem it is. |
Thrashinuva said: Manganese said: I would disagree with you but to each their own. How much denial you're in is how big of a problem it is. Seems Vaan's point was lost on you huh? |
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Thrashinuva said: But he's right. Ashe is the main character, and Vaan is just the self-insert you see the world through. Balthier is the leading man!Manganese said: I would disagree with you but to each their own. How much denial you're in is how big of a problem it is. |
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| Balthier's dialogue is incredibly cheesy and his existence in the world defies all reason and yet he's still the best character in the game. Ashe didn't make it into Dissidia did she? She was in the opening cutscene but missing for a rather large portion of the beginning and various other points as well. Ashe being the main character would have been a good thing, for sure, or Balthier. |
Thrashinuva said: Balthier's dialogue is incredibly cheesy and his existence in the world defies all reason and yet he's still the best character in the game. Ashe didn't make it into Dissidia did she? She was in the opening cutscene but missing for a rather large portion of the beginning and various other points as well. Ashe being the main character would have been a good thing, for sure, or Balthier. You're basing your argument on Vaan being MC of XII off the fact he was in Dissidia and Ashe was not? You haven't given a single legitimate reason as to why Vaan is XII's main protagonist. |
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Thrashinuva said: No no, Balthier was the leading man. Basch was the best character in the game.Balthier's dialogue is incredibly cheesy and his existence in the world defies all reason and yet he's still the best character in the game. Ashe didn't make it into Dissidia did she? She was in the opening cutscene but missing for a rather large portion of the beginning and various other points as well. Ashe being the main character would have been a good thing, for sure, or Balthier. edit: I can't believe I'm taking this bait yet again, but what do you have against Balthier? His existence is well explained as a renegade judge who quit for the freedom of the skies. I actually don't believe we played the same game because I found the characters interesting enough. The plot twists were great from my point of view. |
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Manganese said: You're basing your argument on Vaan being MC of XII off the fact he was in Dissidia and Ashe was not? You haven't given a single legitimate reason as to why Vaan is XII's main protagonist. The fact he is in Dissidia and Ashe is not, is reason to believe what Square recognizes is that Vaan is indeed the main character. These very sentiments took place when Terra was discussed, as SE originally felt that there was not supposed to be a main character for FF6, but felt that Terra was the "mainest" and most iconic of all the characters. This point reflects not OUR opinions, but the official opinion. Vaan is also the prime focus of just about every piece of official FF12 art that he is in, whilst the North American box art simply places Ashe as "one of the crew" and she is literally behind everyone else. You're literally forced to play as him. Even if you switched controlled characters in battle, once you get into a town, boom. Playing Vaan again. And like I stated, Ashe is missing in a large majority of the game. Not only that, but if we're to say Ashe is the main character because Vaan isn't, then she's not the only one laying claim, as both Basch and Balthier have a large portion of the game dedicated just to them, not to mention Ashe is basically following Balthier for the whole game. |
Syrup- said: Thrashinuva said: No no, Balthier was the leading man. Basch was the best character in the game.Balthier's dialogue is incredibly cheesy and his existence in the world defies all reason and yet he's still the best character in the game. Ashe didn't make it into Dissidia did she? She was in the opening cutscene but missing for a rather large portion of the beginning and various other points as well. Ashe being the main character would have been a good thing, for sure, or Balthier. edit: I can't believe I'm taking this bait yet again, but what do you have against Balthier? His existence is well explained as a renegade judge who quit for the freedom of the skies. I actually don't believe we played the same game because I found the characters interesting enough. The plot twists were great from my point of view. I don't have a lot against Balthier, just that his back story isn't very well explained, or at all. If I were to pick a favorite FF12 character Balthier would be in 2nd, right behind Reks. I didn't even remember Balthier being an ex-Judge, but do they ever even talk about it beyond the reveal? |
Thrashinuva said: Manganese said: You're basing your argument on Vaan being MC of XII off the fact he was in Dissidia and Ashe was not? You haven't given a single legitimate reason as to why Vaan is XII's main protagonist. The fact he is in Dissidia and Ashe is not, is reason to believe what Square recognizes is that Vaan is indeed the main character. These very sentiments took place when Terra was discussed, as SE originally felt that there was not supposed to be a main character for FF6, but felt that Terra was the "mainest" and most iconic of all the characters. This point reflects not OUR opinions, but the official opinion. Vaan is also the prime focus of just about every piece of official FF12 art that he is in, whilst the North American box art simply places Ashe as "one of the crew" and she is literally behind everyone else. You're literally forced to play as him. Even if you switched controlled characters in battle, once you get into a town, boom. Playing Vaan again. And like I stated, Ashe is missing in a large majority of the game. Not only that, but if we're to say Ashe is the main character because Vaan isn't, then she's not the only one laying claim, as both Basch and Balthier have a large portion of the game dedicated just to them, not to mention Ashe is basically following Balthier for the whole game. You're still missing the point. As Syrup pointed out so succinctly Vaan is supposed to represent you, the player. He's merely an observer for the most part of XII, letting you see the events of XII as an observer. You can then choose to see Ashe or Balthier or Basch as your MC as you pleased. The ambiguity behind XII's MC is probably the reason why Square placed Vaan over any of the other XII characters in Dissidia. An equally strong case can be made for the three mentioned above to be XII's 'true' protagonist so use the one who represents the instalment but who hasn't got that much of a case for being the MC. Same situation as the villains in Dissidia for XII as well. Gabranth was chosen ahead of Vayne/The Undying, doesn't suddenly make Gabranth the main antagonist of the instalment now does it? |
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| FF13, you can literally press x to beat the game with that auto battle. Lighting as a character is pretty much the female Cloud. Story is not that memorable as past FF. |
Manganese said: Same situation as the villains in Dissidia for XII as well. Gabranth was chosen ahead of Vayne/The Undying, doesn't suddenly make Gabranth the main antagonist of the instalment now does it? That's a pretty good question actually. Gabranth causes Vaan, Ashe, and Basch, to go on their journey, which inevitably drags Penelo in. Plus Vayne was kind of a cool dude other than his ends justify the means attitude, and last second bosses don't count, like Necron or Yu Yevon. I'm not going to go ahead and state Gabranth is the main villain, but the concept isn't any worse than Ashe being the main character, and it's nearly the same jump in logic. Honestly I'd be more convinced Gabranth is in over Vayne since Vayne is a crappy villain and Gabranth is way more popular. |
zetsubousei_hero said: FF13, you can literally press x to beat the game with that auto battle. This is literally impossible. Lighting as a character is pretty much the female Cloud. This is literally the truth. |
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