World Trigger Chapter 122 Discussion

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THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
----------------------------------------
Short summary for this chapter from Jap spoiler:

- Kitora estimates that in 2 years, Osamu should be able to fight in par with top B rankers.
- Kitora initially refuses to train Osamu, because she hates his guts basically. She hates that Osamu is the type that loves to waste time on things that don't work. She hates that Osamu acts entitled.
- To compare, Ninomiya, despite being no.1 shooter and having one of the largest trion in Border, has no problem bowing down to Izumi to beg Izumi to teach him some skill he cannot perfect. On the other hand, Osamu, despite being weak and having low trion, acts like he's entitled of everyone's kindness and that everyone will be happy to teach him.
- So Osamu bows like he is told to, and Kitora teaches him how to use spider.
- Osamu thinks that spider is useless as it cannot let him compete with someone above him.
- Well, it's useful because (1) enemies wary of traps will have hesitations (basically openings) in their movements, and (2) enemies on guard of traps will have their attention divided. Tokieda notes that those are things Osamu has done in his match with Arafune and Nasu. Also, it's very helpful for T-2 ace, because this means Osamu can still contributes even after getting defeated.
- Spider has low trion consumption. Setting traps means targetting immobile buildings and such, so it can be mastered in 2-3 days. In short, it's perfect for Osamu.

Comments:
- Izumi is Ninomiya's mentor. Whoaaa!!!
- And the slow descent of Osamu becoming trapper starts, muahahahaha!
- There are a lot of Kitora being harsh that I don't have time to translate, but I ship them even more now. She might be what Osamu needs to whip him to shape.

EDIT:
- I want to add that the mention of Karasuma might be what sets Kitora off her long rant about how she hates someone like Osamu (this is probably bad for my ship, sigh). Though I think that it adds a little layer to her character.
- From what I understand (need Jap raw to confirm what she implies in her long rant cause she doesn't say it outright), she finds Osamu doesn't respect his mentors/take his mentors for granted by not bowing (in Arashiyama and Izumi's case, Karasuma might have been the one bowing to them in lieu of Osamu), demanding the impossible from the mentor (that is making him capable to fight top B rankers in solo battle in 1 month), bothering many people to teach him the impossible and wasting their time (and Osamu's time too, cuz he can learn something else like how to support Yuuma in that limited time), and so on.This is compared to the level of respect Ninomiya shows by bowing to his mentor even though he only needs to be taught smaller things.
- Ayatsuji probably presses Kitora's button accidentally by mentioning Karasuma since Kitora respects Karasuma a lot for mentoring her (in addition to Kitora being stuck up). Ayatsuji seems passive-aggressive compared to other operator girls in (who are so nice, they are bland). I'm surprised that she just casually agrees that Osamu is wasting his time pursuing the impossible. I guess that's her secret for handling Miwa?

p-kunNov 12, 2015 7:15 AM

Nov 12, 2015 5:04 AM

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Izumi is Ninomiya's mentor? I was not prepared for revelations of this magnitude.

Nov 12, 2015 5:12 AM

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I think Izumi is not Ninomiya's "mentor", just helping him time to time with one skill or another is not "being" a mentor....I think it necessary to be a long teach and student relationship to be labled as mentor/pupil relation... Don't know, just guessing... my god 2 years.... it's a lot my dear Osamu...I hope you can get better in half the time at least... or we have a time skip...if those 2 years flow in the same time speed of those 6 months of story(almost 3 years of manga).... WT will be axed before we see Osamu getting good... :'(

Nov 12, 2015 5:26 AM

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Cool development...I'm seeing the spider being very usefull for Osamu when he master it... I think than more than a Trapper... Osamu is starting to become an all-round, even though he is focusing in being a shooter that will use a lot of traps, hahaha it's still an all-round... so next chap will probably be training and the beginning of the next match?

Nov 12, 2015 6:25 AM

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Wow she really let him have it lol. Edit: Also inb4 Kitora hate.

Izumi is a 'genius' so I'm not surprised that he taught Ninomiya a few things.

If Osamu becomes a Trapper then I suppose that might make Fuyushima more relevant for a few chapters. Sooo... Osamu becomes Trapper and Hyuse joins as a Shooter (obviously not any time soon since Hyuse joining Border is a much more complicated matter)?
Well Hyuse aside, Chika's Lead Bullet will force enemies to keep moving to make it harder for her to shoot, but that also makes them vulnerable for Osamu's traps. I like that; since two members of T-2 are kinda noobs, they fight with the others psychologically instead of pure strength. I'm guessing Yuma will have to try to act as bait from now on lol.

Lure enemies > immobilize them > kill them. Sounds good on paper, let's see if it works or if that's what they'll do to begin with.

Nov 12, 2015 6:53 AM

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Botato said:
Wow she really let him have it lol. Edit: Also inb4 Kitora hate.

I might be guilty of Kitora's hate cuz I didn't mention the trigger of her long rant. I updated the op with my interpretation of her point of view. Feel free to discuss and disagree. I'm curious about the right interpretation of her character too.

BTW, that 2 year estimate is based on Osamu's current solo battle ability growth, no? Surely Kitora can teach him support and teamwork and that might be all T-2 needs, since Yuuma is pulling the team anyway.

p-kunNov 12, 2015 6:59 AM

Nov 12, 2015 7:03 AM

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Ayatsuji being passive aggressive would be a fun personality trait for her to have.

Nov 12, 2015 7:21 AM

14noah

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Osamu got spider and Chika got lead bullet, the team formation is starting get really good now. I am already pitying the Kakizaki unit and the other teams. The main problem is that Kuga will be on the centre of attention and if he is out its already the end for their team in matches. A good technique would be that Chika support Osamu with lead bullet (since he is weak in solo) and then Osamu support Kuga. The best situation would be to have all the three of them against weaker enemies.

The mentor of Ninomiya is Izumi. Well, I guess that Ninomiya is less skilled in term of technique and strategy.

Seriously, Osamu was more fit to be a Trapper since long ago. The Spider of Osamu will be helpful against those that set harsh climates on map since it will make the spiders less visible. We need to wait 2 years for Osamu to face Top rank B...long way to go.

14noahNov 12, 2015 7:30 AM

I did not mean to harm anyone feeling or criticize the point of view of other. These are my point of views.

Nov 12, 2015 8:05 AM

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A small but interesting note at the end. Osamu says that he is excited for the first time for a match,

Nov 12, 2015 11:19 AM

#10

nathan6666

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Well I don't think Osamu thinks hes entitled. Kitora is the type of person to be critical of everything. Osamu needs more of an understanding of how the game is played so to say. Osamu sometimes can have an unaware perspective and this makes him worse than most people in battle.

I do not think it will take him 2 years to be in upper B rank. I know has unused potential that has yet to be fully utilized. He showed in the battle versus Kazama that he is very good at reading movements. He hasn't used this too much recently.

Also I have a great idea. So Kazama squad uses their guy with the hearing sound side effect to predict attacks for their whole team. Why can't Osamu use Chika's side effect for their team to know the location of enemies on the map? This would be an excellent method of locating enemies who use bagworm.

Also I bet Osamu will eventually master his forte of whatever trigger combination he intends to use. I think in the future his method of defeating enemies will be unconventional and hard to counter.

Nov 12, 2015 11:20 AM

#11

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p-kun said:

Botato said:
Wow she really let him have it lol. Edit: Also inb4 Kitora hate.

I wasn't talking about anyone specifically, but I fully expect people to hate her when more people get to this part (or when the anime adapts this chapter). People will either hate Kitora and consider her the biggest bitch or agree with her and shit on Osamu.

And yes you're probably right. The 2 year thing might even be just Kitora being jealous/competitive again. Osamu didn't seem like he feels entitled to get help from others, it's more like other people just sort of.. Help him, mainly because they are interested in what Jin sees in him. I can understand her jealousy (if that's why she's being harsh on him), I mean, she IS the prodigy who, despite having low Trion, managed to become an A-Rank ace in just under a year, she earned the 'respect' she gets from the others. Meanwhile, Osamu just randomly trips and falls into a puddle of water and one convenient thing after another he's suddenly on the verge to be A-Rank.

Nov 12, 2015 1:10 PM

#12

diggyguwop22

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Hey I was just thinking why kitora didn't teach him this before the Nino and kagura, and azusa match. Because the way Osamu was fighting inukai in the hallway he could have set a few spider wires up instead of trying to use asteroid a certain way. I mean inukai would have tripped on the wire and that would have been Osamu's point on inukai right there. That inukai fight was the perfect moment to use spider to his advantage. But Osamu was in the midst of trying to learn to better control asteroid and fight yuiga, so I'll let it slide this time. Well,anyway I just wanted to get my opinion out there.

Nov 12, 2015 1:23 PM

#13

nathan6666

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Sep 2015

Ninomiya is not less skilled than Izumi. He lets Izumi teach him something he cannot master as to make himself better. Even if Ninomiya is the best shooter he looks for ways to improve his ability even if he has to bow to Izumi. I think its a great idea.

Nov 12, 2015 1:49 PM

#14

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diggyguwop22 said:
Hey I was just thinking why kitora didn't teach him this before the Nino and kagura, and azusa match. Because the way Osamu was fighting inukai in the hallway he could have set a few spider wires up instead of trying to use asteroid a certain way. I mean inukai would have tripped on the wire and that would have been Osamu's point on inukai right there. That inukai fight was the perfect moment to use spider to his advantage. But Osamu was in the midst of trying to learn to better control asteroid and fight yuiga, so I'll let it slide this time. Well,anyway I just wanted to get my opinion out there.

Kitora wanted him to beg for help instead of acting entitled for help. Also she felt that Osamu had to acknowledge blindly getting stronger wasn't the right thing to do.

Nov 12, 2015 1:51 PM

#15

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Good chapter
Kitora's attitude doesn't dislike me and finally she teaches Osamu.
I think that the relation Izumi-Minomiya is the same as Kitora-Osamu. Azuma is Minomiya's mentor. Izumi only teaches him a small aspects
Spider is a good and tactical trigger for Osamu. I think that Osamu's fate is to become an excellent general, and be able to move his teammates well. I don't mind if he doesn't become an excellent fighter because this rol is occupied by Yuma, and maybe in future, by Hyuse (perhaps as a gunner?). It is quite possible that Osamu only will become a good combatant.

Well, Chica gets a new tool (Lead Bullet), Osamu gets a new tool too ( spider)... And Yuma?
If he don't change his combat style (agile and agressive), I think that teleporter or Lead bullet are good options. Teleporter with grasshopper will make him very unpredictable, but this trigger is a good combination with Bagworm for Chika too. Lead bullet is used by Yuma in his Black Trigger form... But Chika is beginning to use it too.

Sorry for my english

Nov 12, 2015 2:01 PM

#16

14noah

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The main reason was because Osamu simply did not ask Kitora properly and also because she was jealous or something. Moreover, Osamu was trying to learn things that was impossible for him before that match. Maybe, she also wanted Osamu to realise about what he can do and what he can't. And I do agree that this match was ideal for spider. The snow weather and the hallway was a good setting.

nathan6666 said:

Ninomiya is not less skilled than Izumi. He lets Izumi teach him something he cannot master as to make himself better. Even if Ninomiya is the best shooter he looks for ways to improve his ability even if he has to bow to Izumi. I think its a great idea.

The translation is not yet here but I think that Ninomiya beg Izumi to teach him and bowed. My opinion is that Izumi needs to have some qualities which is superior to Ninomiya in order to teach him something.

I did not mean to harm anyone feeling or criticize the point of view of other. These are my point of views.

Nov 12, 2015 2:14 PM

#17

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14noah said:
The translation is not yet here but I think that Ninomiya beg Izumi to teach him and bowed. My opinion is that Izumi needs to have some qualities which is superior to Ninomiya in order to teach him something.

Again Izumi is considered a genius; his strength doesn't come from his Trion ability alone (although it's quite high from what we've seen). He and Nasu are the only official agents that can use Viper with pin point accuracy. Izumi is also the best at composite bullets. He has excellent Trion control too; being able to match bullets with complex movements like Alektor's using Hound etc..

My headcanon says Izumi is stronger than Ninomiya, it's just that Izumi doesn't care about individual ranking so he's not the No.1 Shooter.

Nov 12, 2015 5:24 PM

#18

LeiteDestiny

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14noah said:
Maybe, she also wanted Osamu to realise about what he can do and what he can't.
My opinion is that Izumi needs to have some qualities which is superior to Ninomiya in order to teach him something.

I think that's right, or rather, those are my thoughts on this. If Kitora just told him, that'd be kind of the same as everything else he's been doing/getting from others. Besides, I think we knew that last match was going to be something sort of like a wake-up call for Osamu to focus less on point getting. That's not to say that his focus isn't bad, but he started being so focused on it that he didn't see anything else. I hope to see more T2 teamwork in future stuff.

On that note, I hope people don't hate Kitora... While she might not be the most likable (she can be pretty harsh on her judgement), there are things that are good about her too. But all in all, I think this chapter reveals a lot more about her characterization. I think Ashihara mentioned her being one of his favorites...?
And I think the bit with Ninomiya reveals more about him as well. He's... diligent? He wants to improve, and he does what he can to do so (although I wonder what Izumi felt lol). Since Ninomiya seemed to just use Asteroid, maybe he's not good with composite bullets? But there's always things to pick up from other people, and Izumi probably isn't as good planning wise. But he's 3 years younger, so he has time to learn. Glad that my guess that Spider uses less trion is was kind of right!

Dues-aj said:

Kitora wanted him to beg for help instead of acting entitled for help.

Beg sounds. Kind of extreme? Although, maybe that's exactly what it was supposed to be. I was thinking more like, request? But maybe that's me making Kitora sound less demeaning. If it was beg, it makes me think of the bow where your knees are on the ground. But I don't know enough about Japanese culture and how it might play into this.

nathan6666 said:

Also I have a great idea. So Kazama squad uses their guy with the hearing sound side effect to predict attacks for their whole team. Why can't Osamu use Chika's side effect for their team to know the location of enemies on the map? This would be an excellent method of locating enemies who use bagworm.

Possibly because of the type of SE? Kikuchihara's is hearing based. But Chika's is more sensory, which might make it harder to share with others? I think it's likely that it's not possible, like Murakami and Kageura's probably isn't something they can share since it's more sensory based? Though, if everyone started doing that, it'd be a little too much for the story, right? xD

p-kun said:
Ayatsuji seems passive-aggressive compared to other operator girls in (who are so nice, they are bland). I'm surprised that she just casually agrees that Osamu is wasting his time pursuing the impossible. I guess that's her secret for handling Miwa?

Sorry, I think I'm forgetting something, but when did Ayatsuji have any contact with Miwa so far?
And as for Operators, I think at least Osano Rui is pretty cool. She seems more likely to speak her thoughts out-loud, or maybe that's just how Suwa Squad is.

Nov 12, 2015 6:03 PM

#19

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LeiteDestiny said:

I think that's right, or rather, those are my thoughts on this. If Kitora just told him, that'd be kind of the same as everything else he's been doing/getting from others. Besides, I think we knew that last match was going to be something sort of like a wake-up call for Osamu to focus less on point getting. That's not to say that his focus isn't bad, but he started being so focused on it that he didn't see anything else. I hope to see more T2 teamwork in future stuff.

On that note, I hope people don't hate Kitora... While she might not be the most likable (she can be pretty harsh on her judgement), there are things that are good about her too. But all in all, I think this chapter reveals a lot more about her characterization. I think Ashihara mentioned her being one of his favorites...?

Beg sounds. Kind of extreme? Although, maybe that's exactly what it was supposed to be. I was thinking more like, request? But maybe that's me making Kitora sound less demeaning. If it was beg, it makes me think of the bow where your knees are on the ground. But I don't know enough about Japanese culture and how it might play into this.

And as for Operators, I think at least Osano Rui is pretty cool. She seems more likely to speak her thoughts out-loud, or maybe that's just how Suwa Squad is.

Yeah, beg might be a little strong. I think he just wanted him to know that people don't revolve around him and that he should be extra grateful when people give him help.

Referring to your first point I think this shows that Kitora does care about Osamu. But she couldn't help him until she was sure he could help himself.

Also Rui is indeed pretty cool

Nov 12, 2015 8:38 PM

#20

Cower

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Now that i think about it, "trapper" or "semi-trapper" is a very good choice for Osamu. With all his tendencies to plan things ahead and lead enemies by their noses (and sometimes doing it on the fly, mind you) works great with traps and decoys.

Nov 13, 2015 1:28 AM

#21

derpKun

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p-kun said:

- Izumi is Ninomiya's mentor. Whoaaa!!!

i was sooo blown away, the great nino-sama bowing down to izumi to teach him some stuffs i thought it was the other way around.
the road to osamu trapper career is starting to get paved.
that was a really great chapter,
btw, thanks for the translations p-kun :D

Nov 13, 2015 2:14 AM

#22

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LeiteDestiny said:

Sorry, I think I'm forgetting something, but when did Ayatsuji have any contact with Miwa so far?
And as for Operators, I think at least Osano Rui is pretty cool. She seems more likely to speak her thoughts out-loud, or maybe that's just how Suwa Squad is.

Sorry, I forgot that Miwa's operator is Ren Tsukimi.

LeiteDestiny said:

Beg sounds. Kind of extreme? Although, maybe that's exactly what it was supposed to be. I was thinking more like, request? But maybe that's me making Kitora sound less demeaning. If it was beg, it makes me think of the bow where your knees are on the ground. But I don't know enough about Japanese culture and how it might play into this.

"Respect" might be the word you are looking for? In japan, bowing is more often a sign of respect than a sign of begging.

EDIT: just to clarify, in Japan, the deeper the bow, the more respect you show. The depth of bows that Osamu and Ninomiya did signifies respect. When you want to show begging, you need to bow deeper, close to 90 degrees.

To set the context in Japanese culture, "bothering other people" is a HUGE deal in Japan ("meiwaku" is the term if you want to check it out). It is not prominent in anime (cuz things are colorful and rosy in the anime world) but if you see some Japanese movies, you can see it. But Japanese is notorious for people working themselves to death because they don't want to "bother" their coworkers by taking vacation. In Japan, it's frowned upon to "bother" your coworker by taking sick leave or maternity/paternity leave (If anyone has watched "Usagi Drop", you'll see a version of this - note that the real life version can be much worse). That's just some examples of what I mean by how much bothering people is a BIG DEAL cultural wise.

WT is a manga, so things are more colorful and rosy than in reality. Everyone in Border is super chill and nice. Heck, Japanese people are super nice in general but proper courtesy is a big thing there. However, WT is more grounded into Japanese reality than the average shounen and quite some realities slip in (for example, WT is a rare shounen that dares to crush kids dream by showing determination means shit and hard work is a super slow grind of at least 2 years). In the context of "bothering" people, notice that Usami makes sure Osamu deliver snacks whenever Osamu is asking other teams for training? It's because Usami knows Osamu is "bothering" the other teams. Notice that Ninomiya is bowing to Izumi? It's because he knows he is "bothering" Izumi. Even if Izumi is free as hell, Ninomiya asking something still counts as "bothering" Izumi in Japanese culture. That's just the PROPER way to "bother" people in Japanese culture because it shows that you RESPECT their kindness for taking their time to help you. Notice that Jin says that usually people think about "bothering" Jin to but will not do it? It's because those people knows that they are "bothering" Jin and has bigger reservation on doing so. Osamu is aware he's "bothering" people, but he has thicker face than normal Japanese people and at least Jin thinks it's a good thing but not everyone does.

EDIT: I also want to add Usami's habit of gifting Osamu's mentors shows that Usami thinks that teaching Osamu is a significant favor such that bowing may not be sufficient. On corollary, Osamu not bowing to his mentors can be seen as Osamu thinking that his mentors teaching him is not a favor big enough that it's worth bowing for (again, Japanese culture context).

Now, what constitutes "bothering" is relative. Some people surely will not find some noob asking for training a "bother". But some will do, and Kitora is one, presumably because she knows from experience as she was not the easiest person to teach due to her low trion. Some people surely don't care of the proper courtesy, but Kitora does and it's within her character to be stuck up about rules. She believes that Osamu is "bothering" people and by asking for something that is impossible, Osamu is "REALLY bothering" people. She does not mind to be "bothered" as she actually teaches Osamu something. BUT Osamu has to understand first that he's taking her and the others' time and has to show proper respect (the proper Japanese way) to show his GRATITUDE for their time.

As a reader, we know Osamu is grateful and respectful to his mentors. But sometimes, feelings need to be SHOWN so the other parties will understand and Kitora feels that she (from her LIMITED interaction with Osamu) has not seen him express it in the proper Japanese way (bowing, gifting, etc). Usami is the one bothering to procure snacks for Osamu, NOT Osamu (and Osamu admitted this). We never see this, but I imagine Karasuma may have already "bowed" or done something in kind (like gifting) when asking Arashiyama and Izumi to take on Osamu as pupil, NOT Osamu. There's always someone else to do the "showing respect and gratitude" job for Osamu and that's what she means by Osamu not showing his RESPECT to people's kindness but taking it as granted. So she asks him to show that respect in advance.

Plus, I'm speculating that Kitora knows the circumstances behind Osamu moving on to other mentors and she is not happy about it because she thinks Osamu is not respecting Karasuma's method (which happened to work for her) just because Karasuma's method cannot allow him to be a solo fighter in 1 week/month. And as it turns out, Karasuma is right, and Osamu is not ready for solo battles and that 1 week quest for him to be a solo ace turns out to be a waste of time for his short term goal. It still helps Osamu in the long run, but to achieve his goal due in 1 month, there are better ways to do this. Karasuma refused to teach him hybrid bullets (because he can't do it anyway), but what if Osamu asked him to teach teamwork or trapping? Karasuma might have been able to teach him and their relationship won't be strained. Plus, that would have made T-2 more effective and Yuuma might not have such difficult time in round 4. Now considering Kitora's feelings about Karasuma, that might have pressed her bitchy button.

Anyway, that's my interpretation.

LeiteDestiny said:

And I think the bit with Ninomiya reveals more about him as well. He's... diligent? He wants to improve, and he does what he can to do so (although I wonder what Izumi felt lol). Since Ninomiya seemed to just use Asteroid, maybe he's not good with composite bullets? But there's always things to pick up from other people, and Izumi probably isn't as good planning wise. But he's 3 years younger, so he has time to learn. Glad that my guess that Spider uses less trion is was kind of right!

Hasn't Kazama mentioned that everyone in Border is a hardworker and Osamu is nothing special in respect to the amount of the work he puts in training?

Izumi might have lower shooter position because he focuses on support and because he uses all bullets equally rather than concentrating points on one bullet.

p-kunNov 13, 2015 5:00 AM

Nov 13, 2015 3:42 AM

#23

Nico69000

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Feb 2015

Translation by karu:
http://forums.mangafox.me/threads/453983-Spoilers-thread/page124?s=a01b83446ea59de63fbe7c607283d33e

Nov 13, 2015 5:18 AM

#24

Chiakihime

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Dec 2014

For the most part, I believe that Kitora just wants Osamu to "know his place" more than anything else. Back when he fought Kazama she mentioned how he should not approach battles with a mindset of just accumulating experience, but now she criticizes him for trying to actually aim for complete victory (both trying to get points by himself and trying to place high enough as a team to get into the expedition force). She wants him to accept his mediocrity and by doing so, impose less of a burden on his mentors.

I do agree with her that aiming too high is detrimental to someones development and often a massive waste of time. I don't think that necessarily applies to Osamu though. While his goal for his team is very hard to achieve, he isn't exactly trying to beat Ninomiya one on one or anything. He knows he needs more than just standard, slow improvement; because they won't get anywhere if he can't even face a random 7000 point mid-B ranker by himself. That is why he keeps looking for options apart from just training the basics, always looking for ways to make up for his lack of trion. Whether his methods will succeed is something only time will tell.

Nov 13, 2015 8:47 AM

#25

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Chiakihime said:
For the most part, I believe that Kitora just wants Osamu to "know his place" more than anything else. Back when he fought Kazama she mentioned how he should not approach battles with a mindset of just accumulating experience, but now she criticizes him for trying to actually aim for complete victory (both trying to get points by himself and trying to place high enough as a team to get into the expedition force). She wants him to accept his mediocrity and by doing so, impose less of a burden on his mentors.

I do agree with her that aiming too high is detrimental to someones development and often a massive waste of time. I don't think that necessarily applies to Osamu though. While his goal for his team is very hard to achieve, he isn't exactly trying to beat Ninomiya one on one or anything. He knows he needs more than just standard, slow improvement; because they won't get anywhere if he can't even face a random 7000 point mid-B ranker by himself. That is why he keeps looking for options apart from just training the basics, always looking for ways to make up for his lack of trion. Whether his methods will succeed is something only time will tell.

I still think that his 150 battles against Yuiga were not meaningless, even though he didn't win against Inukai, he has gotten better than before, for sure.

If Osamun succeeds in becoming a good support and Chika learns how be a proper sniper, Tamakoma 2 fight strenght would raise abnormally... and then Osamu can training to become more than just a supporter. I Think that Osamu can already survive long enough to reunite with Yuuma and Chika... If he had just focused in run and survive rather than trying to defeat Inukai, Osamu could have survived and helped Yuuma... I say he could...not sure it would have happened.

Nov 13, 2015 9:27 AM

#26

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22765

Whatever the reasoning for Kitora's rant, it almost feels like Ashihara is trying to say that it's still too early for T-2 to become A-Rank, I think so too. Right now T-2 has an A-Rank level ace and 2 low-mid B-Rank members; basically T-2 is one step short of being worthy of the Top B-Rank group (with the new 'training' Osamu and Chika are doing, the only difference between T-2 and the other Top B-Rank squads will be battle experience).

pablomc said:
If Osamun succeeds in becoming a good support and Chika learns how be a proper sniper, Tamakoma 2 fight strenght would raise abnormally...

If by proper you mean blow up people with Ibis/Egret then nah I doubt we'll see that anytime soon. But if you mean skills-wise then she's already pretty good from what we've seen in the last joint training.

pablomc said:
and then Osamu can training to become more than just a supporter. I Think that Osamu can already survive long enough to reunite with Yuuma and Chika... If he had just focused in run and survive rather than trying to defeat Inukai, Osamu could have survived and helped Yuuma... I say he could...not sure it would have happened.

Azuma probably would have still shot him. If Osamu used Bagworm, then I can't tell tbh, but Ninomiya might have done it I think.

Nov 13, 2015 9:43 AM

#27

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Azuma probably would have still shot him. If Osamu used Bagworm, then I can't tell tbh, but Ninomiya might have done it I think.[/quote]

yeah, I know that he can't fight against neither azuma nor nino. It's just that if in that moment that he encountered Inukai,Instead of spending his time trying to get the point, he just turned away, trying to reach kuga, maybe Tamakoma2 could have performed better.... I think I'm just saying the same as kazama, if he did his job as a captain instead of just trying to get points, anyway, Osamu stills weak... however, he was the character that most grew in fight strength since the beginning . Comparing Osamu now and when he was a c-rank, it's clear that they are two completely different guys in strength...

pablomcNov 13, 2015 9:50 AM

Nov 13, 2015 10:03 AM

#28

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It's not that he can't fight against Azuma. Azuma is a sniper to begin with; what I'm saying is that Azuma had his sights on Osamu the whole time, so he was going to be sniped regardless.

But yeah he's definitely come a long way. He got a great mentor and a lot of people are willing to help him/interested in seeing what he can do. Same for Chika. Not many C-Ranks have that privilege.

Nov 13, 2015 10:08 AM

#29

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I think she is criticizing him not for trying to get stronger, but for getting stronger in an inefficient way.

Nov 13, 2015 11:36 AM

#30

Triggerman

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Aug 2015

About Kitora's behaviour, i agree a lot with P-Kun about the all respect thing, very important in Japanese culture.
So i don't think she really hates Osamu, at worse she's just jaleous about his relationship with Karasuma!

Another explanation could also be that she actually likes Osamu and just gives him Tough love, we often see this in manga (and movies / series) two characters who like and acknoledge each other but show the opposite. (or at least don't really let their feelings show)
Example: Naruto / Sasuke or Hinata and Kageyama (in Haikyuu)
Generally it's between 2 person of the same gender (and rivals at that) but that can also happen between girl and boy.

For the groth of Osamu and Chika i still strongly believe that their personnal growth we're starting to witness and the team work they'll work on and improve in the next battles will be enough to get to top tier of B-rank.

And i'm still confident with my prediction about T-2 finishing at B-rank n°3!
And then at this moment they will introduce Hyuse in the team (after the coming invasion and the end of B-rank battles), and the top brass of Border will allow "exceptionnally" 3rd B-rank (so T-2) to take a shot for expedition spot!
They will be even more willing to let them try since Hyuse will be part of T-2 and cooperating with border at this point!

Nov 14, 2015 4:00 AM

#31

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pablomc said:
If he had just focused in run and survive rather than trying to defeat Inukai, Osamu could have survived and helped Yuuma... I say he could...not sure it would have happened.

I personally think running away from Inukai is a bad move. Osamu's movement is shit and Inukai will be able to catch up and in no time, just like he did to Osamu in the building and to Chika in the show. Showing his back against Inukai is a bad move for Osamu.... Now if Osamu had Chika's backup when running away, he might have a shot ("might" is the key, as I don't know if Chikannon is good enough to hinder someone with good mobility like Inukai). But Osamu is coddling/super overprotective of Chika, so I don't think he would let her shoot buildings and stuff to save him and risk her getting hunted. And I want to note that Osamu still doesn't find movement skill important to learn, sadly - oh well, in 15-20 chapters I might get this realization from Osamu, if Ashihara keeps on reading my mind.

Triggerman said:

And i'm still confident with my prediction about T-2 finishing at B-rank n°3!
And then at this moment they will introduce Hyuse in the team (after the coming invasion and the end of B-rank battles), and the top brass of Border will allow "exceptionnally" 3rd B-rank (so T-2) to take a shot for expedition spot!
They will be even more willing to let them try since Hyuse will be part of T-2 and cooperating with border at this point!

I speculate Border HQ will get trashed and T-2 will end up with more time to improve and tie with B-2. I admit that I'm rooting on the Garopoula team this time because they are the underdog this time.
- Covert op is very hard already since Border is tracking all wormholes. I think using fodders like Mormods to spread rads to open doors outside the danger zone/gather info will be key for the G-team.
- Ashihara is hinting that Border infiltration will not be easy as it's easy to get lost inside, but I think that's what the dogs are for.
- I hope that Idras can shapeshift into humans and infiltrate the base and cause damages. This means that Amou, and perhaps Kageura and Yuuma will be crucial identifying them.
- I hope that Osamu/Chika doesn't participate in the defense. I want the focus to be on A-rankers and top B-rankers like the BT retrieval arc.
- I want Hyuse to try infiltrate HQ to establish contact with the G-team. And I want Rhodochroun to have something on their sleeves too. Perhaps they are using the G-team/the trion soldiers they send as distractions to infiltrate the HQ for real.

That said, Ashihara is building the plot about Ninomiya's solution too, so we might see Yuuma going alone with other A-rankers to keep check of Enedorad.

On unrelated note, it'll be cute if fan speculation that Kako likes chibi people (like Kazama, Yuuma, and Kuroe) turns out to be true.

Nov 14, 2015 5:25 AM

#32

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p-kun said:

On unrelated note, it'll be cute if fan speculation that Kako likes chibi people (like Kazama, Yuuma, and Kuroe) turns out to be true.

I thought that as well... besides, Kazama looked like a child compared to her in 4-way battle... I mean in size. She's actually quite tall for a japanese womam or is kazama that is too short? I know that Kuga is around 1.40m...

Nov 14, 2015 5:38 AM

#33

dat_le_tat

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I bet the neighbor's invasion force will come to earth first to recon Border and wait for the reinforcements. Then they watching T2 match and they see golden bird Chika and her massive trion capability, change the plan and try to capture Chika the neighbors bat =))

Nov 14, 2015 1:52 PM

#34

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I'm hoping they cut between the sabotage fight and the match. Double up on the action to make up for the streak of actionless chapters.

Dues-ajNov 14, 2015 2:03 PM

Nov 14, 2015 2:21 PM

#35

diggyguwop22

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Jul 2015

I'm honestly hype to see the next rank war, because Osamu is excited this time around, correct me if I'm wrong but Osamu has never been excited about anything he's always in a rush and stressing over power. This is nice development for Osamu, and chika as well I bet no one will see a lightning and lead bullet combo coming. Oh yea also forgot to say that since spider only takes 2 to 3 days (prob 3 days for osamu) to master spider and it costs little trion that's really good for him. I'm just really hyped now. BTW does anybody know how many days are left until the next rank battle.

Nov 14, 2015 2:58 PM

#36

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diggyguwop22 said:
I'm honestly hype to see the next rank war, because Osamu is excited this time around, correct me if I'm wrong but Osamu has never been excited about anything he's always in a rush and stressing over power. This is nice development for Osamu, and chika as well I bet no one will see a lightning and lead bullet combo coming. Oh yea also forgot to say that since spider only takes 2 to 3 days (prob 3 days for osamu) to master spider and it costs little trion that's really good for him. I'm just really hyped now. BTW does anybody know how many days are left until the next rank battle.

I believe the day this chapter takes place is still the day after their last match which makes it Sunday. Their next match should be on Wednesday. Also while spider is easy to master, the real challenge will be using it effectively.

Nov 14, 2015 3:55 PM

#37

diggyguwop22

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Dues-aj said:

Thanks and we'll just have to see how he uses spider I can't wait.

Nov 15, 2015 9:55 AM

#38

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Botato said:
Whatever the reasoning for Kitora's rant, it almost feels like Ashihara is trying to say that it's still too early for T-2 to become A-Rank, I think so too. Right now T-2 has an A-Rank level ace and 2 low-mid B-Rank members; basically T-2 is one step short of being worthy of the Top B-Rank group (with the new 'training' Osamu and Chika are doing, the only difference between T-2 and the other Top B-Rank squads will be battle experience).

I agree. T-2 have a huge potential.
Yuma is like a A-rank ace, as you said.
Chika can surpass her lack in battle experience by brute force (huge trion capacity). Can you imagine if she used Ibis + Meteora in the last 4 side battle? She could kill Inukai, Tsuji, Okudera and Koarai for sure only with the great explosion. I think Chika can do big jumps only if she can choose the correct combinations of triggers. Izumi thought similar.
Osamu is the weak side of T-2. He is an easy point and the teams of high B-Rank know that and hunt him. Osamu can rise the power of T-2 if he can take the advantage of this tactic of enemy. In the next battle he will dress Bagworm for sure.

When chika and Yuma can use their SE in battle?

Sorry for my english

OneCommentaryNov 15, 2015 10:07 AM

Nov 15, 2015 11:02 AM

#39

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OneCommentary said:

Yuma's SE only really matters when he is talking to people. We don't know how Chika's SEs work so we don't know if and when they will be effective

Nov 15, 2015 1:24 PM

#40

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Dues-aj said:

Yuma's SE only really matters when he is talking to people. We don't know how Chika's SEs work so we don't know if and when they will be effective

In theory, Chika's SE works like a radar and she can hide her trion like a Bagworm if she is concentrated. The first application is perfect for a snipper and is possible that the second application can allow her use Lightning + Lead Bullet while she is hidden.

I would like that Yuma could detect the feints, because basically they are still lies. But in this case, I know that is very difficult. If Yuma could detect the feints, he already would showed this before

Nov 15, 2015 2:33 PM

#41

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OneCommentary said:

Dues-aj said:

Yuma's SE only really matters when he is talking to people. We don't know how Chika's SEs work so we don't know if and when they will be effective

I've never seen Chika using her side effect to detect other agents, just trion soldiers... but, yes, maybe she can use for detecting humans... it would be useful

Nov 15, 2015 3:58 PM

#42

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pablomc said:

I've never seen Chika using her side effect to detect other agents, just trion soldiers... but, yes, maybe she can use for detecting humans... it would be useful

But Border agents fight in trion bodies too. I believe that trion soldiers and border agents are detected by radars in the same way. In this case Chika should detect both of them.

Nov 15, 2015 4:22 PM

#43

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OneCommentary said:

But Border agents fight in trion bodies too. I believe that trion soldiers and border agents are detected by radars in the same way. In this case Chika should detect both of them.

yeah, I know, but sometimes it looks like that she can notice the train soldiers before they come by the gate... so... maybe she can even detect guys in bagworn? Also she can also erase her presence... so her se also work as a bagworn?

Nov 15, 2015 9:23 PM

#44

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pablomc said:
Also she can also erase her presence... so her se also work as a bagworn?

Is that confirmed?

I'm skeptical because
1) No one was seen to have more than one SE
2) A SE is an extension of one's senses, so it can't do something like hide Trion
3) It can't be controlled and turned on/off. You can't willingly turn off your sense of touch or your hearing can you?

pablomc said:
I've never seen Chika using her side effect to detect other agents, just trion soldiers... but, yes, maybe she can use for detecting humans... it would be useful

She detected Visa and Hyuse. My guess is her SE doesn't work unless whoever is after her intends to actually harm her or the people around in some way. Rank wars are basically practice so her SE is useless.

Nov 15, 2015 9:28 PM

#45

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Botato said:

pablomc said:
Also she can also erase her presence... so her se also work as a bagworn?

Is that confirmed?

2) A SE is an extension of one's senses, so it can't do something like hide Trion

Hiding your trion would fall under class A: Superhuman ability or class B: special constitution.

Nov 15, 2015 9:36 PM

#46

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Dues-aj said:

Botato said:

Is that confirmed?

2) A SE is an extension of one's senses, so it can't do something like hide Trion

Hiding your trion would fall under class A: Superhuman ability or class B: special constitution.

Okay? That still doesn't fit under what we've seen so far. It's not enhancing something (a human could do) beyond human limits.

Nov 15, 2015 9:44 PM

#47

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Botato said:

Dues-aj said:

Hiding your trion would fall under class A: Superhuman ability or class B: special constitution.

Okay? That still doesn't fit under what we've seen so far. It's not enhancing something (a human could do) beyond human limits.

I don't think we've seen class A or B yet otherwise, so I wouldn't say that.

Nov 15, 2015 9:57 PM

#48

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What I'm saying is, it should be something that humans could do to some extent, but a SE enhances it to make it a beyond human ability.

For example, normal people can detect lies to some extent; there are certain quirks every human does when they are lying, but sometimes they are hard to notice or the person lying is experienced. Yuma's SE ignores all that and just tells him 'this person is lying.' Same with enhanced hearing, precognition, and detecting enemies (detecting bloodlust is a thing in battle shounen manga so..)

Nov 15, 2015 9:59 PM

#49