New
Oct 18, 2015 5:22 PM
#1
Please bring back the "not helpful" button. Very often, people write reviews being super biased and about genres they don't even like. For example if there is a good anime like High School DxD and someone writes a review saying its horrible but its just because he does not like echii then I want to know how people classify that review. Now with only the helpful button you can only see the ones who have more "helpful" votes but don't see how many people in comparison would have said that it isn't helpful. Please take this in consideration because it's kinda essential to find new shows to watch. Mod Edit: Modified title for clarity and/or easier searching. |
_Ghost_Nov 17, 2015 3:50 AM
Oct 18, 2015 5:23 PM
#2
I'd like it because of shit reviews |
Oct 18, 2015 5:25 PM
#3
That review is glorious. |
Oct 18, 2015 5:26 PM
#4
mayukachan said: I'd like it because of shit reviews I really hope that was supposed to be a joke. I can't tell anymore. |
Oct 18, 2015 5:33 PM
#6
I've noticed many troll/joke reviews with a score of 10 lately. I don't know if it's related to the removal of the "Not Helpful" vote. |
Oct 18, 2015 5:37 PM
#7
Eclapa said: I've noticed many troll/joke reviews with a score of 10 lately. I don't know if it's related to the removal of the "Not Helpful" vote. Seem like it. |
Oct 18, 2015 5:47 PM
#8
Eclapa said: I've noticed many troll/joke reviews with a score of 10 lately. I don't know if it's related to the removal of the "Not Helpful" vote. It is not. |
Oct 18, 2015 5:48 PM
#9
Eclapa said: They've always been there.I've noticed many troll/joke reviews with a score of 10 lately. I don't know if it's related to the removal of the "Not Helpful" vote. |
Oct 18, 2015 6:07 PM
#10
I think 10/10 scores aren't classified as annoying, because mainly they're used as jokes to sarcastically say "that anime is bad". I think the "not helpful" button is for what OP said. Childish shits nowadays tend to bash anime with genres, themes or contents they dislike. the result? like picture from Mayukachan (2nd post). There are even people who only watched first few episodes and judge them "bad", and decided to write a bashing review to lower its reputation. |
Cooking is like fapping. It can be lots of struggle when you're in the middle of it. Sometimes it gets hard and boring. When you're about to finish you're filled with excitement. Then finally you get to enjoy the result of your hardwork. Sometimes it doesn't meet your expectation. But most of the times you feel like you're in paradise and your struggle were not in vain. But then comes the messy aftermath you have to clean up. |
Oct 18, 2015 6:16 PM
#11
mayukachan said: "my favourite chinese cartoon is receiving a negative review because of legitimate reasons including shallow characters-- THIS REVIEW A SHIT!" <- you right nowI'd like it because of shit reviews I do want a "Not Helpful" button though. So many 12 year olds writing shitty reviews, and you can tell it's their first time writing. Besides, why include a Helpful button? It's a dumb placebo. You can't tell how many people disagreed with your review, so you can't tell what you did wrong. |
Oct 18, 2015 6:17 PM
#12
Syrup- said: No, they're blinded by the muscles and their own male insecurities that they can't see past it to realize the characters have personalities and aren't just flaunting their penises around. Comparing it to Hetalia was a mistake, that just means the review is shit.mayukachan said: "my favourite chinese cartoon is receiving a negative review because of legitimate reasons including shallow characters-- THIS REVIEW A SHIT!" <- you right nowI'd like it because of shit reviews |
Oct 18, 2015 6:20 PM
#13
Oct 18, 2015 7:07 PM
#14
OP, you should add a poll to this! Also, please add these related posts in your description: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1438730 http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1439917 |
Oct 19, 2015 6:17 AM
#15
100% Agree with you , there are a lot of troll/nonsense reviews |
Oct 19, 2015 8:19 AM
#16
While I do question your standards of "good", I do agree that we need that button back. It kind of destroys the point of criticism if there is only one option. |
Oct 19, 2015 8:50 AM
#17
Add it back but let the users who upvote/downvote be showned? |
added the fourth most popular anime onto this site |
Oct 19, 2015 9:17 AM
#18
EvenJellyOn said: Add it back but let the users who upvote/downvote be showned? I like this. Because I really don't see the point of a "Helpful" button alone. It's okay yet in the first weeks of a release or so, but then it becomes a bit useless. |
Oct 19, 2015 9:24 AM
#19
Oct 19, 2015 6:09 PM
#20
Oct 19, 2015 6:10 PM
#21
Oct 20, 2015 8:49 AM
#22
I agree. Getting rid of the 'Not Helpful' button kind of screws anyone posting a new review. As things are now the top reviews are not so much about quality as much as it is age. The older reviews that have been around longer and accumulated votes will now stay on top regardless of quality simply because they have had more people vote on them over time. Tomorrow someone could write the greatest review ever and once it passes off the recent reviews page it will probably never be seen again. It will never get as many votes as the older reviews and be pushed back into the later page limbo. |
Oct 20, 2015 10:50 AM
#23
Oct 20, 2015 11:30 AM
#24
Milk_is_Special said: It was far not all of sudden. Ppl wanted change in the review system for at least 3 years.Good Idea, I like it. Don't really know why they decided to remove it all of a sudden. |
Oct 20, 2015 11:51 AM
#25
So I see, through the Search page, that people complained about bias and fanatics clicking "Not Helpful" when a review didn't praise their beloved anime/manga. Well, I think there should be a better option than removing the button. Supposedly, the staff is thinking about it, and if so, this topic might be locked like the previous ones. Delenai said: Milk_is_Special said: It was far not all of sudden. Ppl wanted change in the review system for at least 3 years.Good Idea, I like it. Don't really know why they decided to remove it all of a sudden. What people? Why? And this doesn't make the change not sudden. |
Oct 20, 2015 11:59 AM
#26
This topic has been explained and discussed many times in the original thread, and changes are coming, yet when is another question. |
Oct 20, 2015 12:31 PM
#27
Eclapa said: So I see, through the Search page, that people complained about bias and fanatics clicking "Not Helpful" when a review didn't praise their beloved anime/manga. Well, I think there should be a better option than removing the button. Supposedly, the staff is thinking about it, and if so, this topic might be locked like the previous ones. What people? Why? And this doesn't make the change not sudden. If you are interested use the search... Oh wait, you already did, so why are you asking me? And probably you don't know what sudden means, or what did you expected? The mods will tell you what are they doing every minute? They never did before so this is not a big "wasisdas". Also anno the mods said they will do something with the review system... and they did. |
DelenaiOct 20, 2015 12:37 PM
Nov 15, 2015 3:41 PM
#28
All the reviews on shows are now whoever first made a review, even if people have opinions that revisit a work. Moreover, it really really discourages me and I'm sure other users from posting their own review... since we know it'll never be seen, no matter how good. In fact, this system punishes the naive people who are still putting effort into their reviews because it essentially goes in the trashbin. It betrays and tricks people who thought that they were coming here to interact with a community which was going to see, and maybe even be receptive to their ideas if they were good. This "replacement" is a terrible system, and does more harm against meritful reviews(by hiding all of them) than it fixes(it removes raiding of reviews). |
IAmSovereignNov 16, 2015 11:29 PM
Nov 16, 2015 2:57 AM
#29
Possibly related: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1451232 |
Nov 16, 2015 4:35 AM
#30
>Please bring back >it'll never be seen I beg your pardon, but there is something I don't understand: what’s the point of your message? |
Nov 16, 2015 5:42 AM
#32
Nov 16, 2015 6:08 AM
#33
Why are people still onto this idea of bringing back the Not Helpful vote option... Just wait for the Helpful vs Time order to be released and the matter will be balanced out. |
Nov 16, 2015 6:21 AM
#34
Nov 16, 2015 7:39 AM
#35
Serhiyko said: Grudge said: >Please bring back >it'll never be seen I beg your pardon, but there is something I don't understand: what’s the point of your message? To bring back "Not Helpful" button, which gives higher chance for the new reviews to be seen I appreciate the translation. IAmSovereign said: In fact, this system punishes the naive people who are still putting effort into their reviews because it essentially goes in the trashbin. While I do agree that the new review system is not a good idea, it also has its positive sides. What I mean is that you can try your hand at being a reviewer on MAL and no one will give you a negative feedback on your reviews. Furthermore, you won’t be able to create duplicated accounts to down vote the reviews of your rivals. (You still can up vote your reviews, but in the near future, it won’t be possible as well). I am sure that you don’t know about these down vote raids; these raids were the only thing discouraging our reviewers from writing. Before throwing a knife at the staff, why not give them some time? |
NashetaniaNov 16, 2015 7:43 AM
Nov 16, 2015 8:24 AM
#36
Tensho said: So that's a planned addition? Well, it was the most supported one when I recommended it when the staff was taking feedback and ideas on how to proceed. It is the most logical from an analytic point of view, too. |
Nov 16, 2015 10:13 AM
#37
The 'not helpful' button is not coming back. Sorting options and other features will be added soon to give newer reviews a better chance at being seen. When exactly this is happening is completely in the air and up to the development team. It bothers me as much as it bothers you. Until these changes are implemented, the only thing I can really suggest is reviewing less popular anime/manga, as there are many entries on the site which have few (if any) reviews. |
Nov 16, 2015 11:15 AM
#38
Grudge said: Good for the people who can't take any criticism whatsoever, yes. For serious reviewers who actually care about improving themselves, not reallyWhile I do agree that the new review system is not a good idea, it also has its positive sides. What I mean is that you can try your hand at being a reviewer on MAL and no one will give you a negative feedback on your reviews. Furthermore, you won’t be able to create duplicated accounts to down vote the reviews of your rivals. (You still can up vote your reviews, but in the near future, it won’t be possible as well). When exactly is the "near future"?I am sure that you don’t know about these down vote raids; these raids were the only thing discouraging our reviewers from writing. "Up voting raids" are not the slightest bit betterBefore throwing a knife at the staff, why not give them some time? It's been over three months since they removed the "Not helpful" button. What has happened since then? Nothing. Not even an announcement. I think we've waited long enoughVeronin said: So why haven't we heard from the guys in the development team for months? It shouldn't be that hard to create a thread where they tell us how much they've progressed so far, when they plan on implementing the changes etcThe 'not helpful' button is not coming back. Sorting options and other features will be added soon to give newer reviews a better chance at being seen. When exactly this is happening is completely in the air and up to the development team. It bothers me as much as it bothers you. Until these changes are implemented, the only thing I can really suggest is reviewing less popular anime/manga, as there are many entries on the site which have few (if any) reviews. |
Comic_SansNov 16, 2015 11:20 AM
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Nov 16, 2015 1:28 PM
#39
Comic_Sans said: It's been over three months since they removed the "Not helpful" button. What has happened since then? Nothing. Not even an announcement. I think we've waited long enough Veronin said: So why haven't we heard from the guys in the development team for months? It shouldn't be that hard to create a thread where they tell us how much they've progressed so far, when they plan on implementing the changes etcThe 'not helpful' button is not coming back. Sorting options and other features will be added soon to give newer reviews a better chance at being seen. When exactly this is happening is completely in the air and up to the development team. It bothers me as much as it bothers you. Until these changes are implemented, the only thing I can really suggest is reviewing less popular anime/manga, as there are many entries on the site which have few (if any) reviews. Exactly. Usually I wouldn't agree with Comic_Sans because I believe stuff like this can't be handled too straight-forward but this time, that's the honest truth. 2 and a half months ago, I'd defend this position that "we should wait a little" and "give devs time to sort things out" but that was 2 long months ago. Anyone who checks the announcement thread will see that I was still defending the changes and asking for people to, just like me, have some patience. Ironically, while doing it, I found myself target of an angry mob before the lock. Was it worth it? Fuck, no. This administration seems unable to understand the basics of customer relation. MAL provides us a service, and even thought we don't pay for it, we directly influence its income and value generating traffic for it. It's expected from a company to have at least the decency of updating its users on the situation of relevant changes to the site. If Facebook (also a free platform) suddenly shuts down the "Event" feature with a sole announcement of "we're improving it!" and stays silent for more than 2 months, what do you think would happen? What can we take from their attitude of staying dead silent? That they don't give a fuck to user feedback and satisfaction. Sometimes I wish this wasn't a bloody monopoly. That we had a similar list-organizing site to compete with this one. I'd love to see if such "updates" would be pushed with this little (zero) community interaction if they had traffic to lose. Orkut says hi. -- We should just get rid of the system already. Deleted everything. DeNA, or whoever is behind this, clearly doesn't have any idea how to control this feature. While they delay even further this magical promised sorting options, we get more and more PERMANENT entries to the DB filled with pathetic, MEME spouting, rage-filled, LOOK AT ME I KNOW SOME FANCY CURSING WORDS, tasteless "reviews" who are constantly projections of someone's random blog thoughts on a show rather than a REVIEW of its good and bad points. |
Nov 16, 2015 1:39 PM
#40
Veronin said: The 'not helpful' button is not coming back. Sorting options and other features will be added soon to give newer reviews a better chance at being seen. When exactly this is happening is completely in the air and up to the development team. It bothers me as much as it bothers you. Until these changes are implemented, the only thing I can really suggest is reviewing less popular anime/manga, as there are many entries on the site which have few (if any) reviews. Why don't you guys listen to feedback? The response to this change is overwhelmingly negative, and those sorting options are not going to fix the problem. |
Nov 16, 2015 8:15 PM
#41
Narmy said: and those sorting options are not going to fix the problem. Which is? |
Nov 16, 2015 9:33 PM
#42
Subpyro said: Narmy said: and those sorting options are not going to fix the problem. Which is? The fact that people don't care about the reviews, but rather the score the reviewer gives. I mean, in the announcement thread, the mods themselves recognised that scores were the reason for the down/upvote raids and yet it's not trashed. Instead, they decided to "hide" it. |
Nov 16, 2015 10:03 PM
#43
Grudge said: And why it won't be possible?Furthermore, you won’t be able to create duplicated accounts to down vote the reviews of your rivals. (You still can up vote your reviews, but in the near future, it won’t be possible as well). |
Nov 16, 2015 10:22 PM
#44
vivan said: Grudge said: And why it won't be possible?Furthermore, you won’t be able to create duplicated accounts to down vote the reviews of your rivals. (You still can up vote your reviews, but in the near future, it won’t be possible as well). [spoiler] Kineta said: 4. Due to the massive drama surrounding review voting lately and the opportunity presenting itself, I have asked Xinil to code me the ability to see which user accounts vote on which reviews. I do not currently have an ETA on when we will see this change, but I hope it will be within the next few months. Since this is now in progress, I would like to ask that all reviewers/readers:
|
Nov 16, 2015 10:37 PM
#45
That was posted 2 years ago. Near future, lol. The sole reason they removed this feauture is exactly because they gave up on idea of detecting dups. |
Nov 16, 2015 10:40 PM
#46
vivan said: That was posted 2 years ago. Near future, lol. The sole reason they removed this feauture is exactly because they gave up on idea of detecting dups. That remains to be seen, we shall see. |
Nov 16, 2015 11:13 PM
#47
Grudge said: [/quote][spoiler] Kineta said: 4. Due to the massive drama surrounding review voting lately and the opportunity presenting itself, I have asked Xinil to code me the ability to see which user accounts vote on which reviews. I do not currently have an ETA on when we will see this change, but I hope it will be within the next few months. Since this is now in progress, I would like to ask that all reviewers/readers:
The plan is actually to make all these votes (the username, not the IP) visible to users as well so that they can easily see when someone is using multiple accounts to upvote a review. The unhelpful button was removed primarily because it would not work with this system: reviewers would downvote people who downvoted their own reviews, attack and insult each other, and so on. We'd just be replacing drama with more drama. Making the votes visible only to moderators is also not possible since we do not have the time or resources to investigate every single review in the off chance that there may be vote manipulation. Making it public is the best way to discourage people from doing it and to find the ones who do. |
Nov 16, 2015 11:17 PM
#48
Nobody cares about reviews anyway, just get rid of them. It's a waste of time revamping the whole thing if all people are going to do is complain. |
Nov 16, 2015 11:22 PM
#49
Veronin said: The 'not helpful' button is not coming back. Sorting options and other features will be added soon to give newer reviews a better chance at being seen. When exactly this is happening is completely in the air and up to the development team. It bothers me as much as it bothers you. Until these changes are implemented, the only thing I can really suggest is reviewing less popular anime/manga, as there are many entries on the site which have few (if any) reviews. What a shitty and non-professional attitude from the development team's side. In the 3 months since this terrible change was made, it is infuriating how many people's hardwork was essentially trash-binned when they thought they were coming to the site to discuss and share opinions, and get other people's feedback. The idea that if you want to be even the minutest bit sure your review will be seen by people, you should go to a non-reviewed item is a proof in itself how shitty and broken this system is. This "new development", MAL, better be really good at pushing THE BEST reviews to the top of the pile, if you want to make it up to us. Sorting options? WHO USES THOSE? To sort by "New" instead of "helpful"? That is such an infuriatingly terrible addition to the site that if it comes to pass, and the devs attempt to push it as a legitimate answer to the community's uproar, I am going to leave this site. Migrate to AniDB or some other site. In the meantime, the "Not Helpful button" was a MUCH better system than this "system"(or lack thereof) that you have now. Sure, I acknowledge that some people manipulated the voting system with raids, but that IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO HANDLE. Sites like reddit and facebook and google+ and voat.co and a million others use voting systems and they all acknowledge that they have to be the arbiters in making sure voting is fair. Meanwhile, MAL shrugs off all weightage of its community's votes because it can't ensure it counts them right. Disgraceful. P.S. I edited the title. I would greatly request that this thread be forwarded to management or dev team. |
IAmSovereignNov 16, 2015 11:33 PM
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