Fairy Tail Chapter 451 Discussion

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Jan 2014

171

It's really odd,though. Yuriy is so important to fairy tail's background and yet he dies offscreen with us not even knowing how or why he died. Considering Mashima already pulled this with Silver,I wouldn't be surprised if Yuriy is Serena.

I am hoping it has something to do with E.N.D,since we don't know WHAT was sealed in that book. Mard Geer said the book is his soul,for exemple. But yeah,it could also be related to his dragon slayer powers. I wouldn't be surprised if the antibodies thing didn't work on Natsu,or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a move he created.

But yeah,hopefully Mashima is smart here,because we need proof it could actually work. Just saying "oh,Natsu has a skill that can kill zeref",when the man is undying sucks. The move will fail and there will be no drama or suspense whatsoever, just the "you don't say" moment.

About fairy heart,yeah,wouldn't be surprised if Mavis's love for Zeref,along with her curse, are the reasons why it is an infinite magic. It's probably among the closest things to the one magic. This explains Precht's fascination with the one magic. It's rather ironic. Were it not for Mavis and Zeref,Precht would have kept on the right path.

I wonder,Zeref appeared before him,then why did Hades say he was sealed almost a hundred years later. Imagined he researched Zeref on wikipedia or something of the sort,lol.

Mod Edit: Removed baiting.

NTADSep 17, 2015 2:05 PM

Sep 7, 2015 6:21 AM

#53

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Apr 2008

11325

hello09 said:
It's really odd,though. Yuriy is so important to fairy tail's background and yet he dies offscreen with us not even knowing how or why he died. Considering Mashima already pulled this with Silver,I wouldn't be surprised if Yuriy is Serena.

I am hoping it has something to do with E.N.D,since we don't know WHAT was sealed in that book. Mard Geer said the book is his soul,for exemple. But yeah,it could also be related to his dragon slayer powers. I wouldn't be surprised if the antibodies thing didn't work on Natsu,or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a move he created.

But yeah,hopefully Mashima is smart here,because we need proof it could actually work. Just saying "oh,Natsu has a skill that can kill zeref",when the man is undying sucks. The move will fail and there will be no drama or suspense whatsoever, just the "you don't say" moment.

About fairy heart,yeah,wouldn't be surprised if Mavis's love for Zeref,along with her curse, are the reasons why it is an infinite magic. It's probably among the closest things to the one magic. This explains Precht's fascination with the one magic. It's rather ironic. Were it not for Mavis and Zeref,Precht would have kept on the right path.

I wonder,Zeref appeared before him,then why did Hades say he was sealed almost a hundred years later. Imagined he researched Zeref on wikipedia or something of the sort,lol.

There is no reason for Yuri to be Serena. He never found out Mavis killed Rita because Precht sealed that information away for good and the experts in Ishgar are too fucking dumb to recognize Ankhseram's curse.

He's just dead. People can drop dead for a variety of reasons. Not everything has to lead into baseless conspiracy theories.

Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post.

NTADSep 17, 2015 2:05 PM

Sep 7, 2015 6:36 AM

#54

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Jan 2014

171

Darklight,this is a discussion page. Discussion includes speculation as well.

There is a precedent (Silver),there is a means to reanimate a corpse (Necromancy) and the guy is not just strong but he has a personal connection to the guild and caracters like Makarov and Mavis.

For instance,the E.N.D=Natsu speculation turned out to be right. The Silver=Gray's father turned out to be right (I particularly didn't like this theory,but yeah,I considered it too). I imagine that when those speculations were going wild on foruns,you were here saying they were baseless.

Mod Edit: Removed baiting.

NTADSep 17, 2015 2:08 PM

Sep 7, 2015 6:38 AM

#55

myanime2

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Feb 2013

217

just read the mangastream version, it says thAt natsu can defeat zeref though his arms( maybe its a dragonification), not natsu developed an asspull tech.... stupid mangafox translations.

Sep 7, 2015 6:38 AM

#56

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Oct 2013

4275

Darklight0303 said:
There is no reason for Yuri to be Serena. He never found out Mavis killed Rita because Precht sealed that information away for good and the experts in Ishgar are too fucking dumb to recognize Ankhseram's curse.

He's just dead. People can drop dead for a variety of reasons. Not everything has to lead into baseless conspiracy theories.

Ok, let´s agree and say there is no reason for Yuri to come back and be revealed as Serena for whatever reason.

What would your reaction be if it turns out that he is?

Sep 7, 2015 6:44 AM

#57

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Jan 2014

171

Honestly,I don't know why people get so attached to silly things such as this. If the Yuriy=Serena theory is wrong,it's wrong. Nothing of value will be lost. i admit,I would rather have it be right,but it just means that I have still much to learn in making theories

Mod Edit: Removed baiting.

NTADSep 17, 2015 2:15 PM

Sep 7, 2015 6:46 AM

#58

llCrazityll

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Sep 2015

1

Hmm....
They said Zeref wants Mavis to defeat Acnologia but i dont think thats it.

Sep 7, 2015 6:48 AM

#59

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Jan 2014

171

Zeref is a colossal mass of contradictions thanks to his curse. He almost certainly wants Lumen Historie because it's Mavis,not because it's a weapon. However,he also wants it because it's a weapon.

Honestly,I wouldn't call this a retcon. Retcon means a retroactive continuity. There is a media,like a book,a videogame,a movie,a play,etc. When you retroactively change the meaning behind a scene,or even change the scene entirely,or add contradicting information to a caracter or place's background you have a retcon. It must not be foreshadowed,and it must create a contradiction.

Yuriy being Serena wouldn't be a retcon,it would be a plot twist or a revelation. You would be elucidating a caracter's backstory without contradicting previous information.

hello09Sep 7, 2015 6:57 AM

Sep 7, 2015 6:55 AM

#60

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Oct 2013

4275

hello09 said:
Zeref is a colossal mass of contradictions thanks to his curse. He almost certainly wants Lumen Historie because it's Mavis,not because it's a weapon. However,he also wants it because it's a weapon.

People actually have to give Hiro somewhat of a compliment for being decent with his "games".

Dunno if you read FT Zero but his truth or lie game was pretty creative(probably derived from some japanese kidsgame). Anyway I didn´t understand as Zeref´s curse makes the contradiction.

The contradiction comes through himself and his decisions.

He cherishes life. Whoever he cherises dies due to the curse.
Aka if he´s Happy that there are flowers blooming around him they wither "because" he appreciates them.

In order to not kill the flowers Zeref has to hate them, so that the spell doesn´t kill the flowers.
But he cannot lie with this, if he lies to himself the spell kills them anyway because he´s lying and still appreciating them.

To prevent them from dying to the Curse he has to honestly want to kill the flowers. But that´s not his true nature, aka he goes against his own will.

It´s a circle he cannot break out by himself.

Replace flowers with people and you understand why Zeref is fucked up in the head.

Sep 7, 2015 7:01 AM

#61

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Jan 2014

171

I have read it.

Yes,this is why I say it's an effect of the curse. In a way,it is. He kills all he cherishes,so he must hate them to retain control of the curse's random death waves. He will end up killing what he cherishes intentionally instead.

However,it was made rather clear in chapter 450 that it has gone beyond reason. Zeref's mind itself has become contradictory,and if you remember the name of the curse,it seems like this is an intentional side effect. Not even Zeref realized that he went insane. He said he wanted to kill Natsu. That totally goes against his plans.

hello09Sep 7, 2015 7:04 AM

Sep 7, 2015 7:31 AM

#62

Crescentgenisi

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May 2015

247

"Thanks for dropping off the body because we have a lacrimal stored in the basement for just an occasion like this"

Sep 7, 2015 7:31 AM

#63

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Oct 2013

4275

hello09 said:
I have read it.

Yes,this is why I say it's an effect of the curse. In a way,it is. He kills all he cherishes,so he must hate them to retain control of the curse's random death waves. He will end up killing what he cherishes intentionally instead.

However,it was made rather clear in chapter 450 that it has gone beyond reason. Zeref's mind itself has become contradictory,and if you remember the name of the curse,it seems like this is an intentional side effect. Not even Zeref realized that he went insane. He said he wanted to kill Natsu. That totally goes against his plans.

Because if he doesn´t honestly believe in in he would kill him on contact, however
if he decides to kill him honestly the curse won´t harm Natsu making it actually plausible to his plans.

Aka whatever Zeref says/ he means the opposite, (as long as the person is alive).
Apparently he seems to be capable of being indiferent about his country.

Meaning, he doesn´t intend to kill Acnologia, at least not openly.
Acnologias Breath kills through seperating body and soul.

A 1 hit kill technique,that is total, but in order to prevent Zeref´s curse from killing Acnologia first, he needs to attack him with killing intent.

I don´t know which role Mavis plays in that,but that should be his motivation to fight him.

IsterioSep 7, 2015 7:44 AM

Sep 7, 2015 7:42 AM

#64

Kensai-Serazu

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Jan 2014

797

Can Natsu really defeat Zeref? if Zeref told Natsu that he is his brother would he still be able to kill him?

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Sep 7, 2015 8:29 AM

#65

-Lukz

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May 2014

478

Zeref is so romantic, just dropping Mavis body in the ground <3

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Sep 7, 2015 8:32 AM

#66

Star-Angel

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Sep 2014

6

Now that I think about it, don't Fairy Heart and the flashback of when Zeref first created END look similar? I mean, they were both inside lacrima. And not really alive or dead, I think. Hard to say for END, but still.
I'm excited that we finally get to figure out what's up with Natsu's arm. We all know we've been waiting for it. Though the way Natsu revealed it was a bit disappointing. *shrugs* Oh well, that's Natsu for you.

Sep 7, 2015 11:02 AM

#67

MermaidGalaxies

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LittleRookie said:
Secret technique? Interested to see what it is.

Yes, indeed.

I wonder if this is the final Arc? >_<

"Wait for the signal, and I'll meet you after dark"

Sep 7, 2015 12:02 PM

#68

dinesj21

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Mar 2014

2021

I hope this isn't the last arc...

Sep 7, 2015 2:26 PM

#69

ichii_1

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Sep 2013

22818

I guess Zeref's experiment was successful :)
dragon + zeref's thing >> curse of gods

Sep 7, 2015 2:53 PM

#70

Dimitrije1606

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Jun 2013

1426

Darklight0303 said:

Dimitrije1606 said:
I am a bit disappointed how story between Zeref and Mavis ended. I think it would have been awesome if Zeref himself did something to save Mavis, this way it felt anti-climatic. I am not saying it is illogical, story is rounded very well, I am just saying that it was disappointing. Not exactly how I wanted story to end between Zeref and Mavis.

Mavis' death broke whatever weas left of Zeref's mind. I don't really see how it could go any other way

You are right, and I said it was rounded up well. I just didn't want it to end like that. I guess I wanted to see more of Zeref and Mavis.

Ad Astra Per Aspera

Sep 7, 2015 3:11 PM

#71

KsT

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Jan 2011

703

natsus secret technique

Sep 7, 2015 7:59 PM

#72

timey__wimey_

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Jun 2015

2

Second time comenting here. A little bit dissapointing ending. Was like "Mavis died, so, ummm, Preht put her in a lacrima. Yeah, luckily the guild had one, you know, in case someone dies around the zone". We finally know what Fairy Heart is, not dissapointed about that, I was expecting something like that.

And Zeref most really dislike corpses.

So, honestly, I wasn't really looking forward Natsu's arm (I forgeted), but now my attention has been caught (I hope it has somenthing to do with END, but I don't think so).

And since the only theory I ever made was correct, I'm not making any new. Let's see if Hiro can surprise me.

Sep 7, 2015 8:03 PM

#73

deg

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Jan 2009

92371

Natsu has a secret technique huh, damn cliffhanger we will not see that secret technique until Natus vs Zeref take place

Sep 8, 2015 12:34 AM

#74

IMTM

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Aug 2015

6

well lets see interesting chapter indeed...... we get know how fairy heart was created and some other stuffs .........i am still feeling bad about zeref though....

We saw a small sight of difference in power and abilities between Acknologia and Zeref and Human..... I mean even zeref needs eternal magic to kill acknologia ......

and about natsu's right arm i wonder what it is . maybe Dragonification or something like that.....

We still dont know how Layla heartfillia knew about one magic .....well i still think final fight in Ft will be against Ankhseram..... :3 :v

Star-Angel said:
Now that I think about it, don't Fairy Heart and the flashback of when Zeref first created END look similar? I mean, they were both inside lacrima. And not really alive or dead, I think. Hard to say for END, but still.
I'm excited that we finally get to figure out what's up with Natsu's arm. We all know we've been waiting for it. Though the way Natsu revealed it was a bit disappointing. *shrugs* Oh well, that's Natsu for you.

And btw i predict zeref didnt create END 400 years ago. I mean when he met mavis 300 years ago he didnt mention anything that can kill him . he said he created magical beings called Eterious that surpasses human ..... so i think and predict he created END after he suffered the loss of his love being taken away as his final art so that it can kill him when time is right....... i guess he preserved his body but made him etherious afterward.

Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button.

NTADSep 17, 2015 2:18 PM

Sep 8, 2015 1:27 AM

#75

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11325

IMTM said:

Star-Angel said:
Now that I think about it, don't Fairy Heart and the flashback of when Zeref first created END look similar? I mean, they were both inside lacrima. And not really alive or dead, I think. Hard to say for END, but still.
I'm excited that we finally get to figure out what's up with Natsu's arm. We all know we've been waiting for it. Though the way Natsu revealed it was a bit disappointing. *shrugs* Oh well, that's Natsu for you.

And btw i predict zeref didnt create END 400 years ago. I mean when he met mavis 300 years ago he didnt mention anything that can kill him . he said he created magical beings called Eterious that surpasses human ..... so i think and predict he created END after he suffered the loss of his love being taken away as his final art so that it can kill him when time is right....... i guess he preserved his body but made him etherious afterward.

Except Atlas Flame said Igneel fought END 400 years ago? forget that?

Sep 8, 2015 4:01 AM

#76

IMTM

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Aug 2015

6

Darklight0303 said:

IMTM said:

And btw i predict zeref didnt create END 400 years ago. I mean when he met mavis 300 years ago he didnt mention anything that can kill him . he said he created magical beings called Eterious that surpasses human ..... so i think and predict he created END after he suffered the loss of his love being taken away as his final art so that it can kill him when time is right....... i guess he preserved his body but made him etherious afterward.

Except Atlas Flame said Igneel fought END 400 years ago? forget that?

Hmm i forgot that point. I take back what i said ......

And there is one thing that is weird in FT right now is END itself. I mean 1. The END book 2. Natsu's baby body in lacrima 3. Natsu in fairy tail .......

how can natsu be in a lacrima as a child version and and adult version in guild at same time . i get END book is his etherious form ..... And we saw natsu in fairy tail guild from child to grown up . If this natsu in guild is real who is in the lacrima that zeref have ???

Sep 8, 2015 5:05 AM

#77

Zerienga

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May 2015

41

The lacrima that showed baby Natsu was in a flashback of Zeref's.

Sep 8, 2015 7:48 AM

#78

a-o-z-o-r-a

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Apr 2015

1

Who would have thought that Gajeel had such thought about love? hmmmm I wonder why....? But will we finally know what Natsu's secret technique is, and why he is hiding it under those bandages?? Did anybody else Mavis' reaction when Natsu stood up?? I have a feeling she might know something.

Did you guys see the title for chapter 452??! it's going to be "prelude to final battle". Do you guys know what that means....? I want to cry really bad.

Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button.

NTADSep 17, 2015 2:21 PM

Sep 8, 2015 9:14 AM

#79

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Apr 2008

11325

a-o-z-o-r-a said:
Did you guys see the title for chapter 452??! it's going to be "prelude to final battle". Do you guys know what that means....? I want to cry really bad.

It's not the final battle of the manga don't be silly

Sep 8, 2015 3:51 PM

#80

wiErD0es

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Jun 2015

25

metsujin said:

Behemoth11 said:
Is Acnologia really that strong?

Well he can shift into a dragon, and dragons are pretty op in the ft verse.

Yeah,, imagine him a human who has dragonslayer powers bathe in the blood of the dragons and turn into a dragon with same dragon and slayer powers....

And people say, Dragonslayers are the strongest human beings existed. Pretty OP to shake the foundations of FT world.

mayhem1994 said:
Guys Natsu figured out how to defeat Zeref in 1 year while training to defeat Acnologia.

Jellal has been trying to figure out ways to defeat Zeref for 8 years and Natsu has accomplished this in 1 year.

Hiro just took a steaming sh*t on Jellal and his quest for redemption.

Lol

IMTM said:

There's a lot of theories that can be made since in the flashback with Zeref's life is that he'll talk about it some other time, including Natsu's encounter with Igneel and probably his battle with him as well..

If I had my guess, Zeref wanted Igneel to train Natsu as both Etherious and dragonslayer in which both based on same elements, fire. A strongest demon and a dragonslayer under the teachings of a dragon king was something Acnologia doesn't have which still boggles up the power scale of END. But over the past chapters. Acnologia wanted to destroy the book which means END is somehow a threat to him despite an apocalyptic dragon.

Anyway, it's just a guess. No one really knows until the whole manga progressed more.
Is it just me or Mavis seemed to recognize something odd on Natsu... That last panel seemed to be quite curious.

I dunno if it was just an expression of shock since he adamantly spoke about taking Zeref down with his new technique but I don't know.... -_-

Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button.

NTADSep 17, 2015 2:23 PM

Sep 9, 2015 12:23 AM

#81

IMTM

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Aug 2015

6

wiErD0es said:

IMTM said:

Hmm i forgot that point. I take back what i said ......

And there is one thing that is weird in FT right now is END itself. I mean 1. The END book 2. Natsu's baby body in lacrima 3. Natsu in fairy tail .......

how can natsu be in a lacrima as a child version and and adult version in guild at same time . i get END book is his etherious form ..... And we saw natsu in fairy tail guild from child to grown up . If this natsu in guild is real who is in the lacrima that zeref have ???

There's a lot of theories that can be made since in the flashback with Zeref's life is that he'll talk about it some other time, including Natsu's encounter with Igneel and probably his battle with him as well..

If I had my guess, Zeref wanted Igneel to train Natsu as both Etherious and dragonslayer in which both based on same elements, fire. A strongest demon and a dragonslayer under the teachings of a dragon king was something Acnologia doesn't have which still boggles up the power scale of END. But over the past chapters. Acnologia wanted to destroy the book which means END is somehow a threat to him despite an apocalyptic dragon.

Anyway, it's just a guess. No one really knows until the whole manga progressed more.

Igneel couldnt defeat END . So that means they were enemies not student and teacher.. :3

Sep 9, 2015 4:24 AM

#82

blfan

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Sep 2012

1566

I kind of feel sorry for the people in Alvarez, they are not even considered as real people with any value in lives. They are human beings dammit. Also Happy wanted to nuke Alvarez, what an a - hole, there are innocent civilians there, Happy you are no better than Zeref.

blfanSep 9, 2015 5:51 AM

Sep 9, 2015 5:31 AM

#83

Raijin-sama619

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Mar 2015

2360

I see. Unlimited Chakra, huh?

Nooo. Don't tell me, this arc will end the Fairy Tail?

Sep 9, 2015 5:39 AM

#84

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Apr 2008

11325

Raijin-sama619 said:
I see. Unlimited Chakra, huh?

Nooo. Don't tell me, this arc will end the Fairy Tail?

No it won't

Sep 9, 2015 6:49 AM

#85

wiErD0es

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Jun 2015

25

IMTM said:

wiErD0es said:

There's a lot of theories that can be made since in the flashback with Zeref's life is that he'll talk about it some other time, including Natsu's encounter with Igneel and probably his battle with him as well..

If I had my guess, Zeref wanted Igneel to train Natsu as both Etherious and dragonslayer in which both based on same elements, fire. A strongest demon and a dragonslayer under the teachings of a dragon king was something Acnologia doesn't have which still boggles up the power scale of END. But over the past chapters. Acnologia wanted to destroy the book which means END is somehow a threat to him despite an apocalyptic dragon.

Anyway, it's just a guess. No one really knows until the whole manga progressed more.

Igneel couldnt defeat END . So that means they were enemies not student and teacher.. :3

Like a stalemate you mean... But who knows... So if they really fought, Igneel couldn't defeat a tiny Natsu-turned Etherious back then? I'mma lol'd myself if it does happen. Just a speculation though, Maybe Igneel couldn't bring to kill Natsu since he was like... a kid 400 years ago. he couldn't have grown in to an adult right away right? XD

Sep 9, 2015 7:35 AM

#86

Seik0n

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Nov 2007

189

Wont Mavis tell Natsu that Zeref is his borther? Or he already knows, cant remember

Sep 9, 2015 7:47 PM

#87

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Apr 2008

11325

Seik0n said:
Wont Mavis tell Natsu that Zeref is his borther? Or he already knows, cant remember

How would Mavis even know that. Zeref never told her the specifics before he killed her

Sep 11, 2015 12:29 AM

#88

Tharross

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Sep 2015

1

Got a few questions so far... hopefully they will be answered soon

1. Does Warrod know about any of this? How did he know?

2. Back during the Laxus's arc where he wanted to become master, Natsu and Gajeel couldnt get past Freed's wall. Natsu over 80 years old? ok But what about Gajeel? And Wendy?

3. WHERE IS GILDARTS??????

4. Can we petition to have mystogan not be a stupid rip off of jellal?

Sep 11, 2015 12:36 AM

#89

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Oct 2013

4275

Tharross said:
Got a few questions so far... hopefully they will be answered soon

1. Does Warrod know about any of this? How did he know?

2. Back during the Laxus's arc where he wanted to become master, Natsu and Gajeel couldnt get past Freed's wall. Natsu over 80 years old? ok But what about Gajeel? And Wendy?

3. WHERE IS GILDARTS??????

4. Can we petition to have mystogan not be a stupid rip off of jellal?

1. We don´t know time will tell.

2. All Dragon Slayers with Dragon parents are over 400 years old from Natsu´s timeperiod. The Dragons knew each other afterall and no Dragon was seen in forever combine that with Gajeel and Freeds barrier and you´ve got your answer.

3. Away for plot covenience as he would solve too many problems or required to be nerfed to progress the plot.

Sep 11, 2015 12:59 AM

#90

G_Spark233

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Dec 2013

14940

Tharross said:
4. Can we petition to have mystogan not be a stupid rip off of jellal?

Not sure why you're complaining about this now after so many years.

Sep 11, 2015 3:08 AM

#91