| Dude, Luffy went from struggling against Arlong to going toe to toe with Rob Lucci in the same year. Unless you genuinely believe Arlong to not have a large gap inbetween himself in Rob Lucci, a timeskip is not really necessary. It's been pointed out that Luffy strengthens at a very fast pace, a timeskip is not necessary. He always gets progressively stronger, simply put, he stands no chance against a Yonko now. He can eventually though without a timeskip, sure. Realism, quite frankly, does not matter in a manga like One Piece. It's entirely possible. metsujin said: If Luffy awakens his devil fruit, he would be really OP, because he also have his gears and then this? Yeah it'll be a little... bs. Him getting stronger is BS? It's just a power up, and all of them are mostly explained so I don't see the problem with it. |
ashfrliebertAug 23, 2015 2:12 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
Isterio said: In all honesty? What Shounen doesn´t use a certain amount of Bullshit to make his MC´s win? Naruto and Sasuke became the pinable of power within their world with 17 years of age. Luffy is becoming stronger through fightning his enemies without any training effort at all besides the timeskip, with 20 years capable of beating 30-40+year old enemies who went through decades of training Natsu becomes powerful once he needs to protect his friends at the age of 18. And Ichigo Loses his powers to get them back, to lose them again to get new/old powers that aren´t revealed yet at the age of 16, getting buildup to face a final villain that is over 1000 years old. Roshi is 300 years old and teen Goku surpassed him with regular training I´ve never watched Yuyu Hakusho, but I know that Yusuke beats some 1000+ years old demon lord because MC. Shall i continue? Objectively all Shounen power ups are bullshit. They all are Deus ex machina to an extent. most of them HAD logical explanations though. and to be fair the most logical one is Goku, you know, Saiyan vs. Human? let DBZ alone, it has otherworldy fantasy, none of any other anime can compare to the Z fighters who blow up planets like a hobby. aside from that: Naruto and Sasuke: it wasn't their power, but the power they gained by the Sage. so here, again, we had a logical explanation (you obv need to have fantasy in the shounen world but i'm sure you at least get that) Natsu: mostly illogical, exept for the gaining combo atks (lightning+fire and stuff). However, has he ever lost, like luffy did? i don't think so, so again, can't compare. Ichigo: Ok i admit, him mastering Bankai and stuff in such a short time was BS and stuff, HOWEVER, Bleach is not a RL timebased anime imo (all that which happened and STILL 16 years old? kinda reminds us of a certain someone named Ash Ketchum, doesnt it?) in all you named, i can only compare it to Naruto, which is also a RL timebased anime, but it did have logical power-ups. So all that you said just now actually doesn't even matter. Imo, you can only compare a RL timebased anime like One Piece with other RL timebased ones. |
 |
ashfrliebert said: metsujin said: If Luffy awakens his devil fruit, he would be really OP, because he also have his gears and then this? Yeah it'll be a little... bs. Him getting stronger is BS? It's just a power up, and all of them are mostly explained so I don't see the problem with it. actually, thats somewhat THE ONLY logical power-up i heard in this forum where i have to agree with. gratz to Metsujin! however, i'd still doubt that only that will help him becoming pirate king in only 1 year, which was and still is my main problem with other ppl thinking that to be possible. |
|
| Once more... Isterio said: metsujin said: Without some BS in it, Luffy can not do shit alone. If Luffy awakens his devil fruit, he would be really OP, because he also have his gears and then this? Yeah it'll be a little... bs. In all honesty? What Shounen doesn´t use a certain amount of Bullshit to make his MC´s win? Naruto and Sasuke became the pinable of power within their world with 17 years of age. Luffy is becoming stronger through fightning his enemies without any training effort at all besides the timeskip, with 20 years capable of beating 30-40+year old enemies who went through decades of training I absolutely agree with what your saying, but I don't think your argument is actually going to work. People will just dismiss what happened in those manga as BS and move on. "OP is on another level, it's not normal shonen", so it just doesn't work here. I wonder what they think of gear 2nd, 3rd and foruth, all developed thanks to Luffy being outclassed in some form or way(before the match-Aokiji, everything from Sabaody to the War-and during it-when he used it). And 3rd and 4th being pulled out in the nick of time and not in the actual beginning of the match. He went from struggling with arlong, noted to be a small fish in a enormous pond with world building and other, stronger characters appearing(Mihawk in the arc before for instance), to breaking out of the most high security prison in the world and defeating a famed, experienced pirate in Crocodile. He advances fast. A timeskip is fine(and considering one just happened-that's very much debatable), not necessary. |
ashfrliebertAug 23, 2015 2:16 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
ashfrliebert said: He went from struggling with arlong, noted to be a small fish in a enormous pond with world building and other, stronger characters appearing(Mihawk in the arc before for instance), to breaking out of the most high security prison in the world and defeating a famed, experienced pirate in Crocodile. He advances fast. A timeskip is fine(and considering one just happened-that's very much debatable), not necessary. yep, well, i hated the way he was able to break out of Impel Down, as THAT was illogical. I'm sure i'm not the only one who hated that, it didn't feel like One Piece. One Piece as a RL timebased manga is about progression due TIME. and having a power-up from not even strong enough to beat Mingo on his own to beating the strongest man alive in just 1 year, that seems like BS to me. i'll give you another way myself how he'll be able to beat the younko, but i'm sure many will disagree and say this will never happen. HOWEVER, it's a logical explanation. explanation: Luffy-Law alliance grows to a Supernova alliance, with most of them included (somehow Kid, Hawkins and Apoo will have to get to safety though with Kaidou in their faces). That floating island Supernova got his ass kicked already cuz of Kaidou i think? wasn't killed though, but he is on top of the Kid alliance. So, after perhaps not being killed off by Kaidou, they decide to team up with Luffy and Law, i'm sure Bonney will be considering joining them too and Drake, well we just don't know enough about him. So with this, it'd be at least: Kidd Pirates, Heart Pirates, SH Pirates, Hawkins' crew and Apoo's crew against the younko (each individually ofc as they won't work together with other younko), with the possibility of Jewelry Bonney and that winged guy's crew joining too. THAT' would be a logical way. By this it could be another way to set a complete New Era that Whitebeard was talking about, and getting rid of all the 'old timers'. |
|
| I do not know what's the extend of a awakened devil fruit, BUT using Doffy as an example, he had his devil fruit awakened, said that not all users can awaken them just a few. But it took two people Law & Luffy to defeat this guy, so realistically speaking, regardless of how fast Luffy grows in strength after every battle, his next adversary is something on a whole different level, and you're telling me that a 19 (he's not 20 yet), years old can conquer all of this? Nah. The yonko's are strong, we never really got to see any of them at full potential, we saw some of Whitebeard, and he was freaking strong, but was also sick, imagine him at his prime. Now Luffy's next foe will be a yonko, which one it'll be we don't know, it can be anyone with the exception of Shanks and Blackbeard, because I feel those two are saved for later. Now Kaido, based on his synopsis and that he you know jumped off a island that was 10k meters in the sky... seems pretty immortal. Shanks, is also strong, we've seen him clash swords with Whitebeard, he also held of Kaido. Big Mam, probably the strongest female character in One Piece. And Blackbeard, the dude has two devil fruits, and the one he has from Whitebeard, it's a pretty good one, if he can master it, assuming he did by now. I'll make a theory, now Blackbeard might let's say take out Shanks, of course it won't be easy, could be possible, so one of Luffy's enemies is taken out. Kaido already wants to start a war, so we'll definitely see a fight with him. Big Mam the only way I don't see Luffy fighting her, is because of her daughter. So out of 4 big threats, 2 are most likely to happen, and on top of that you have the marines... Now you know, for Law & Luffy's alliance to take on that... that's really hard, also the war with Kaido, if it's the biggest war, allies from previous arcs will hopefully come in Luffy's aid. I'm biased a bit, on both sides, the one who thinks Luffy can become pirate king as such a short age, he could if Oda wants to. But I'm also on the side that says he can't, and I'm leaning more to this one, because the enemies he's facing are really strong, and it's hard for him, plus think about how much he'll need to recover after a huge battle against a yonko, and while recovering he needs to go 'into' hiding, I mean this isn't just a game for them, now you're at a point where less threats, more chances of winning aka finding the One Piece. P.S. sorry if I misspelled. |
metsujinAug 23, 2015 2:40 PM
Hiroyuuki said: ashfrliebert said: He went from struggling with arlong, noted to be a small fish in a enormous pond with world building and other, stronger characters appearing(Mihawk in the arc before for instance), to breaking out of the most high security prison in the world and defeating a famed, experienced pirate in Crocodile. He advances fast. A timeskip is fine(and considering one just happened-that's very much debatable), not necessary. yep, well, i hated the way he was able to break out of Impel Down, as THAT was illogical. I'm sure i'm not the only one who hated that, it didn't feel like One Piece. One Piece as a RL timebased manga is about progression due TIME. and having a power-up from not even strong enough to beat Mingo on his own to beating the strongest man alive in just 1 year, that seems like BS to me. What is illogical about "becoming stronger"? I think you'll agree with me that Arlong is weaker than Crocodile, who, taking aside Logianess, is weaker than Lucci. And he defeated all three within the same year, is that bs too? He naturally gets stronger, what's so weird about that? A timeskip would bascially have no reason to happen, because the one that already happened had reason to that was built up since thriller bark(where someone(Zoro?) mentioned they keep meeting stronger opponents and that it will wear down Luffy-after he defeated Oz and Moriah with shadow luffy and the pain transfusion between Zoro and Luffy happened.), he chose two years to get stronger. That plot point has already been done before, he's going to realize he's not strong enough again and Oda is going to give him ANOTHER one? Now, that, my friends, is BS. The timeskip has been forshadowed since Mihawk defeated Zoro with a tiny knife and was only built up since than, he wasn't able to save Ace, Aokigi, Thriller Bark and Logias in general etc. I don't think a second timeskip would be best(or even good) for the series, he progresses to get stronger as the series goes on, it always happens, and I think it's completely fine. edit: excluding a timeskip at the end, of course. |
ashfrliebertAug 24, 2015 10:05 AM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| I'm just really tired of this discussion. Personally lack the energy to care. I believe that Luffy is capable of defeating Kaidoh without another training timeskip. I believe that he will gain the strength to do that, both physically and in terms of allies/help, in time. I fully believe that Luffy can and will become Pirate King at a young, anywhere between 19 and 21. There's no evidence to suggest that Luffy can't become Pirate King by the age of 21. It's not even bullshit. You guys just don't understand the human anatomy or how each of Luffy's traits are advantageous to him in such regards. There's legit no reason to continue arguing about this because there's only one truth, and it shall be revealed within the next 15 years when Luffy becomes PK (or subgoal it by when he faces Kaidoh). Tired of this argument. I completely disagree with you guys and you guys haven't been in any way successful in presenting evidence to suggest I'm wrong in my belief. Though something similar can be said in an opposite sense, I'm fine with that. If you want to believe that Luffy shouldn't be able to become PK at a young age, then either complain or gloat once the series ends with his inevitable title gain. |
Isterio said: I do not understand why you search for a logical timeinvestive conclusion in a Shounen that has proven to exactly behave the way you don´t want it too. Example from Fairy Tail that exactly uses a form of storytelling you call bullshit right here in One Piece´s case: Again decades of experience and training can be overcome by a significantly smaller amount of training if you´re just the MC. A: I love discussion, so having theories like this is fun :D, plus since everybody says 'One Piece is the best written story', I put it a logical way, why Luffy becoming the Pirate King at 20 would be bs, and not so great for 'the best written story'. B: Again with Fairy Tail? That fight is not a good example and you know it. Gildarts can barely control his magic keep that in mind, so he must stay focused otherwise he'd blow shit up. That's all I've got :/ |
DarkAngelz said: I'm just really tired of this discussion. Personally lack the energy to care. I believe that Luffy is capable of defeating Kaidoh without another training timeskip. I believe that he will gain the strength to do that, both physically and in terms of allies/help, in time. I fully believe that Luffy can and will become Pirate King at a young, anywhere between 19 and 21. There's no evidence to suggest that Luffy can't become Pirate King by the age of 21. It's not even bullshit. You guys just don't understand the human anatomy or how each of Luffy's traits are advantageous to him in such regards. There's legit no reason to continue arguing about this because there's only one truth, and it shall be revealed within the next 15 years when Luffy becomes PK (or subgoal it by when he faces Kaidoh). Tired of this argument. I completely disagree with you guys and you guys haven't been in any way successful in presenting evidence to suggest I'm wrong in my belief. Though something similar can be said in an opposite sense, I'm fine with that. If you want to believe that Luffy shouldn't be able to become PK at a young age, then either complain or gloat once the series ends with his inevitable title gain. Well you know, people have different opinions, whether you like the or not. I get yours, I'm mostly biased about this, I just like the discussion... if Oda wants it he can do it of course, it's just that it's extremely hard to, that's all. |
ashfrliebert said: Hiroyuuki said: yep, well, i hated the way he was able to break out of Impel Down, as THAT was illogical. I'm sure i'm not the only one who hated that, it didn't feel like One Piece. One Piece as a RL timebased manga is about progression due TIME. and having a power-up from not even strong enough to beat Mingo on his own to beating the strongest man alive in just 1 year, that seems like BS to me. What is illogical about "becoming stronger"? I think you'll agree with me that Arlong is weaker than Crocodile, who, taking aside Logianess, is weaker than Lucci. And he defeated all three within the same year, is that bs too? He naturally gets stronger, what's so weird about that? A timeskip would bascially have no reason to happen, because the one that already happened had reason to that was built up since thriller bark(where someone(Zoro?) mentioned they keep meeting stronger opponents and that it will wear down Luffy-after he defeated Oz and Moriah with shadow luffy and the pain transfusion between Zoro and Luffy happened.), he chose two years to get stronger. That plot point has already been done before, he's going to realize he's not strong enough again and Oda is going to give him ANOTHER one? Now, that, my friends, is BS. The timeskip has been forshadowed since Mihawk defeated Zoro with a tiny knife and was only built up since than, he wasn't able to save Ace, Aokigi and Logias in general etc. I don't think a second timeskip would be best(or even good) for the series, he progresses to get stronger as the series goes on, it always happens, and I think it's completely fine. edit: excluding a timeskip at the end, of course. I completely agree with what you've just said. Another timeskip is total BS and would completely undermine the entire Shabondy to Shabondy setup. People completely mislabel and misread the Marineford Saga imo. Shabondy to Shabondy wasn't about Ace. Not really. It was about proving to Luffy how weak he is against the top tier. He, because he's so dumb, needed not a simple slap in the face. Having his crew utterly defeated and separated (could have been dead, there hadn't been confirmation until he woke up alive), was his slap in the face. He was crying his heart out because he failed. But He's Luffy so he can't stop. He picks himself up with that optimism, and then he gets his heart wrenched from within when he didn't simply fail to save Ace, but was the legit REASON he died. Ace lost his life while protecting Luffy. Ace was gonna punch Luffy and Ace intercepted. Luffy got so wrecked. He finally realized how weak he was. He finally realized that he needed to get stronger to protect what's important to him. All that build up. Starting as early as Thriller Bark. Actually subtly earlier really. He was able to save Robin and Usopp. He was able to pick himself up against Lucci when Usopp was baiting Lucci. Luffy couldn't move but managed to because he knew that Usopp would die if he didn't get up. He managed. With Thriller he barely managed to succeed with his crew. Now Shabondy and he legit failed. Then with Marineford, his brother DIED saving him. That build up, that intense and beautiful build up would be undermined completely if the crew needed another timeskip now. Theyve legit been back less than a week and they're not strong enough to stay alive in the New World? If two years wasn't enough then what would another month or two do? In addition, Luffy was just as strong as Law and Kid (who were the strongest of the supernovas) pre-TS. They all survived! Without a timeskip! Without training for two years! It's BULLS*IT if Luffy STILL wasn't strong enough after taking a break. How did Kidd get stronger these past two years? Training? NO. By battling. Luffy should technically be below Kid in battle experience but above him in technique upgrades. For Luffy to undergo another timeskip training is utter crap! So what, the other supernovas are strong enough to take on the yonko? There will be alliances but a training time skip is bullcrap, and there needs to be some semblance of a one on one or else there wouldn't be a proper taking of the Yonko title. But again, this will be proven soon: whether there'll be another timeskip anytime soon or otherwise. I'm so against an additional timeskip happening anytime soon. I am so against it. You guys have such little faith in Luffy, and such little understanding in how he's grown and leveled up. Like no. Just no. >.> |
| @ Metsujin, THANK YOU! finally someone who can think a bit further. Indeed, i also agree with the ones who say 'Luffy can become king in 1 year', if, AND ONLY IF, Oda has a logical way to do so. Giving a tremendous (over)power-up just seems too illogical ATM, not saying Oda can't find a way, but atm there is no way that we have seen that he'd be able to progress in such short time (ok, maybe a 2nd fruit could help, always thought his elastic body would be able to handle it and ignore the rule of only being able to have 1 DF power like BB somehow did, but do we even want Luffy to gain a 2nd fruit..?) so i can't just say that it's impossible (sorry if some here took it that way), however, it's still too illogical compared to how progressing went in the manga up to now. And tbh i don't rly want another gear either, up to 3 it was logical, 4 was somewhat too but it got a bit old, but still OK, but if Oda just keeps adding a gear like that each time Luffy's doomed to lose without it, i'm gonna say Oda's writing skills have fallen low then (this indeed would feel like DBZ SSJ levels, which i personally hated after SSJ2) @Isterio If you can't keep it at the subject cuz you can't stand others ppl's thoughts, just don't bother to comment and ignore them instead of starting to go the insulting route. my arguements are trash? Then don't read them. I just gave a way that it'd make things more logical to make it possible to get it your way and making Luffy able to become king in less than a year, yet you still don't accept it? so wait, you don't want me being right about him NOT being able to do it in 1 year, yet when i find a way how it could, you STILL think i'm trashtalking? dude i just gave a fking possibility, i'm not Oda, idc how he does it as long as he keeps his logics. |
|
metsujin said: Isterio said: I do not understand why you search for a logical timeinvestive conclusion in a Shounen that has proven to exactly behave the way you don´t want it too. Example from Fairy Tail that exactly uses a form of storytelling you call bullshit right here in One Piece´s case: Again decades of experience and training can be overcome by a significantly smaller amount of training if you´re just the MC. A: I love discussion, so having theories like this is fun :D, plus since everybody says 'One Piece is the best written story', I put it a logical way, why Luffy becoming the Pirate King at 20 would be bs, and not so great for 'the best written story'. It's just a silly shonen, it's not really the greatest story nor is it a super-realistic story. When it's already been knowledge that X(luffy become strong at a fast speed) is acknowledged, while Y(becoming the pirate king in 2 years) might not be realistic, X makes it possible based on the world that has been created by Oda. basically it's not really particularly a 'realistic' story, and neither is one that has the main character become the strongest samurai Pirate in the world/ invincible under the heavens Pirate King through timeskips is either-much less two years. But that's not really what One Piece built itself to be. Speaking of which, you should definitely check out Vagabond. |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
metsujin said: DarkAngelz said: I'm just really tired of this discussion. Personally lack the energy to care. I believe that Luffy is capable of defeating Kaidoh without another training timeskip. I believe that he will gain the strength to do that, both physically and in terms of allies/help, in time. I fully believe that Luffy can and will become Pirate King at a young, anywhere between 19 and 21. There's no evidence to suggest that Luffy can't become Pirate King by the age of 21. It's not even bullshit. You guys just don't understand the human anatomy or how each of Luffy's traits are advantageous to him in such regards. There's legit no reason to continue arguing about this because there's only one truth, and it shall be revealed within the next 15 years when Luffy becomes PK (or subgoal it by when he faces Kaidoh). Tired of this argument. I completely disagree with you guys and you guys haven't been in any way successful in presenting evidence to suggest I'm wrong in my belief. Though something similar can be said in an opposite sense, I'm fine with that. If you want to believe that Luffy shouldn't be able to become PK at a young age, then either complain or gloat once the series ends with his inevitable title gain. Well you know, people have different opinions, whether you like the or not. I get yours, I'm mostly biased about this, I just like the discussion... if Oda wants it he can do it of course, it's just that it's extremely hard to, that's all. Yeah. And I'm fine with people having different opinions :) It's just that the timeskip issue is becoming a peeve of mine. I'm also biased but I feel like the evidence supports my claims. But all's good though :D I don't find it hard to.... have Luffy become PK at a young age or beat Kaidoh w/o a timeskip. Luffy levels up through fighting against stronger opponents. That's just how he works. I mean, Luffy might lost against Kaidoh when that battle happens (which I doubt), but at the end of the day he'll win without any training. I mean, maybe he will have training? Have Oda change that formula a bit right? Cause usually, or rather always, Luffy fights and loses then just thinks up a way to win without training and then wins.... so maybe there'll be a changeup and he'll level up his strength? Who knows. I just doubt that would happen unless the fight with Kaidoh is a long way from now in terms of opponents. EDIT: I feel like my aggression came from comments like: "Finally! Someone who can think FURTHER!" That complement was for you seemed a bit condescending. Like, good on you to get a complement, and I do think that you have some points, but the way the complement was written made it seem like people on my side are short-sighted ignorant fools. It's that attitude that's making me peeved. Just because I think Luffy will become PK at a young age/will beat Kaidoh w/o Timeskip doesn't mean that I'm short sighted in anyway. It doesn't make me ignorant or a fool. It just means that I've drawn a different conclusion based off a different perception of the content, or different amount of content remembered/researched. Personally, I've seen One Piece so many times that I could literally re-enact or summarize with semi-accurate dialogue so many of the One Piece scenes. I just did a week ago on the adult swim forums even. http://boards.adultswim.com/t5/Toonami/Toonami-8-8-15-Discussion-Thread/m-p/71470297#M236513 I do have a few things iffed like how long it took Roger to conquer the grand line. Thought it was a year, turned out to be between 2 and 3. I check the wikia often enough and reread and rewatch plenty. So I have full confidence in my opinions of the series. When Law said he wanted to take down a yonko w/ Luffy I even predicted that it would be Kaidoh. Or at the very least that when one yonko is involved, they all are. I hit that nail on the head. Luffy had just created conflict with Big Mom not too long ago but it would be unlike Oda to have him take care of her first and without any conflict w/ the others. I practically knew- or felt really- that it was too soon for Big Mom and that Luffy would most likely fight Kaidoh first. And if he doesn't fight Kaidoh first, to at least have conflict with him. I'm not always right, probably because I typically don't care enough to make predictions or theories, but when I do mention a prediction in terms of logic, I'm usually in the right direction. Maybe there will be a timeskip and all that. Who knows? I just LOGICALLY feel like it doesn't fit AT ALL and it legit does indeed make sense for Luffy to take on Kaidoh and become PK without any additional major timeskips or increase in age. |
DarkAngelzAug 23, 2015 3:25 PM
DarkAngelz said: Yeah. And I'm fine with people having different opinions :) It's just that the timeskip issue is becoming a peeve of mine. I'm also biased but I feel like the evidence supports my claims. But all's good though :D I don't find it hard to.... have Luffy become PK at a young age or beat Kaidoh w/o a timeskip. Luffy levels up through fighting against stronger opponents. That's just how he works. I mean, Luffy might lost against Kaidoh when that battle happens (which I doubt), but at the end of the day he'll win without any training. I mean, maybe he will have training? Have Oda change that formula a bit right? Cause usually, or rather always, Luffy fights and loses then just thinks up a way to win without training and then wins.... so maybe there'll be a changeup and he'll level up his strength? Who knows. I just doubt that would happen unless the fight with Kaidoh is a long way from now in terms of opponents. I think that's the whole point of the alliances between the supernovas, they're rookies (not considered anymore right?), but they know the yonko are people you don't want to mess with, alone anyway, so them teaming up to take one each it's not stupid. Again as I said before, and since this is the main topic of this discussion, I personally don't see Luffy taking Kaido out, at least without some help, and who knows if he'll battle him (yes I made that 'theory' in previous statements), anything can happen look at Kid's alliance they wanted to take out Shanks, and Kaido appeared. Indeed Luffy 'levels up' from each battle, that's like the rule in shounen, they get much better after each fight, in some cases more 'visible' than others... But there's still a matter of damage, and how much he can take, it'll taking him time to recover after those fights, and it's not like the enemy will stand still (unless plot purpose), and they're at a place where less threats, more chances of winning so to say. @Isterio I agree with you on that, people who talk shit about other series, just to make the one they like look better, when it's not flawless... |
ashfrliebert said: It's just a silly shonen, it's not really the greatest story nor is it a super-realistic story. When it's already been knowledge that X(luffy become strong at a fast speed) is acknowledged, while Y(becoming the pirate king in 2 years) might not be realistic, X makes it possible based on the world that has been created by Oda. basically it's not really particularly a 'realistic' story, and neither is one that has the main character become the strongest samurai Pirate in the world/ invincible under the heavens Pirate King through timeskips is either-much less two years. But that's not really what One Piece built itself to be. Speaking of which, you should definitely check out Vagabond. I know, but you can't really deny how many people praise it and say it's the best... like no it's not, it is very enjoyably and entertaining, yes. Yeah, I know, this isn't DBZ, sure inspired by it, but it isn't. I should read Vagabond xD |
Isterio said: metsujin said: I think that's the whole point of the alliances between the supernovas, they're rookies (not considered anymore right?), but they know the yonko are people you don't want to mess with, alone anyway, so them teaming up to take one each it's not stupid. Again as I said before, and since this is the main topic of this discussion, I personally don't see Luffy taking Kaido out, at least without some help, and who knows if he'll battle him (yes I made that 'theory' in previous statements), anything can happen look at Kid's alliance they wanted to take out Shanks, and Kaido appeared. Indeed Luffy 'levels up' from each battle, that's like the rule in shounen, they get much better after each fight, in some cases more 'visible' than others... But there's still a matter of damage, and how much he can take, it'll taking him time to recover after those fights, and it's not like the enemy will stand still (unless plot purpose), and they're at a place where less threats, more chances of winning so to say. Well let me take a different approach towards Dark Angelz and my argument since we both agree that another timeskip won´t be necessary. Can you agree with us that Luffy will be the strongest person within his universe by the end of the series? Do you consider that the possible endgame? I do believe that, because unlike many other Shounen One Piece fight´s are pretty Dragon Ballish, teammates don´t interfere and Luffy is the bonified strongest member of the Strawhats intending to work his way up in the foodchain. By the end of the series? Yeah, regardless of his age xD yes, probably. I mean Luffy sees the title of Pirate King as the man with the most freedom on the sea, while the others, us readers/watchers & characters of that universe will view him as 'The strongest man alive' or something like that. EDIT: About the last sentenced you made. I just think he can't take on Kaido on his own, Blackbeard, yes, will be hard, but haki will come in his aid when he'll fight BB. Kaido, I mean based on what we know about him... yeah, I find it hard for him to defeat him alone, that's just me tho. |
metsujinAug 23, 2015 3:32 PM
DarkAngelz said: EDIT: I feel like my aggression came from comments like: "Finally! Someone who can think FURTHER!" That complement was for you seemed a bit condescending. Like, good on you to get a complement, and I do think that you have some points, but the way the complement was written made it seem like people on my side are short-sighted ignorant fools. It's that attitude that's making me peeved. Just because I think Luffy will become PK at a young age/will beat Kaidoh w/o Timeskip doesn't mean that I'm short sighted in anyway. It doesn't make me ignorant or a fool. It just means that I've drawn a different conclusion based off a different perception of the content, or different amount of content remembered/researched. Personally, I've seen One Piece so many times that I could literally re-enact or summarize with semi-accurate dialogue so many of the One Piece scenes. I just did a week ago on the adult swim forums even. http://boards.adultswim.com/t5/Toonami/Toonami-8-8-15-Discussion-Thread/m-p/71470297#M236513 I do have a few things iffed like how long it took Roger to conquer the grand line. Thought it was a year, turned out to be between 2 and 3. I check the wikia often enough and reread and rewatch plenty. So I have full confidence in my opinions of the series. When Law said he wanted to take down a yonko w/ Luffy I even predicted that it would be Kaidoh. Or at the very least that when one yonko is involved, they all are. I hit that nail on the head. Luffy had just created conflict with Big Mom not too long ago but it would be unlike Oda to have him take care of her first and without any conflict w/ the others. I practically knew- or felt really- that it was too soon for Big Mom and that Luffy would most likely fight Kaidoh first. And if he doesn't fight Kaidoh first, to at least have conflict with him. I'm not always right, probably because I typically don't care enough to make predictions or theories, but when I do mention a prediction in terms of logic, I'm usually in the right direction. Maybe there will be a timeskip and all that. Who knows? I just LOGICALLY feel like it doesn't fit AT ALL and it legit does indeed make sense for Luffy to take on Kaidoh and become PK without any additional major timeskips or increase in age. I had edited a previous post but thought the edit could have been/was skipped over cause time. |
DarkAngelz said: I had edited a previous post but thought the edit could have been/was skipped over cause time. ye sorry i overlooked that. well, sorry, didn't mean to make it look like i thought you were ignorant fools, my bad.. But wait, you find it logical for there to be no timeskip (i already explained what i consider a timeskip in an earlier comment somewhere, ANYTHING that is timeconsuming) and that he'll be able to beat kaidou at his current lvl without any aditional logical explanation that'll be given, like for example the Supernova alliance or the awakening i talked about? (or any other thing that'd be logical to get the total fighting power of Luffy's side bigger for that matter) then what do you expect, if i may ask? :s |
|
Hiroyuuki said: DarkAngelz said: I had edited a previous post but thought the edit could have been/was skipped over cause time. ye sorry i overlooked that. well, sorry, didn't mean to make it look like i thought you were ignorant fools, my bad.. But wait, you find it logical for there to be no timeskip (i already explained what i consider a timeskip in an earlier comment somewhere, ANYTHING that is timeconsuming) and that he'll be able to beat kaidou at his current lvl without any aditional logical explanation that'll be given, like for example the Supernova alliance or the awakening i talked about? (or any other thing that'd be logical to get the total fighting power of Luffy's side bigger for that matter) then what do you expect, if i may ask? :s I might have missed your definition of timeskip. I didn't read the entire thread. My definition of timeskip consists of training arcs. There are natural timeskips that have already happened within the series, like several days having passed between leaving one island and arriving at another. There's also short timeskips, like Luffy resting for three days after fighting and beating Crocodile. I don't consider these timeskips. I mean, that's why most of what I've written was more specific or general. I believe that there shouldn't be any training timeskips. All this culminates in a way that allows for a month timeskip for resting after a major injury, or for traveling. It doesn't allow for a month of training though. I think that having the crew train for any extended period, beyond Zoro's weight training etc., at this point in time is bull. I find it senseless to have the crew train train anytime soon, particularly after spending two years training and being together and in the new world less than a week. Does that clear things up? What do you consider a timeskip? I read it more as a training timeskip, and that's where my disagreements sprang. |
Isterio said: The introduction of Kaido facing the Kid alliance can go 3 ways. 1. Kaido beats the shit out of them. 2. They join him/escape him in order for survival. 3. They do actually beat Kaido in a fight we see/won´t see barely alive but take his place and replace him as a mark for Luffy to overcome. Showcasing how Kid is a step ahead of Luffy For some reason I feel more like Kid and co are flies. Kaidoh will laugh, flick them with his finger like they're boogers, and go on his merry way. When I say flick, I'm not even sure in what way. Either he'll swat 'em like they're flies, or he'll toss 'em over his shoulder, he'll simply stomp them as he walks ignoring them, befriends them in the "hohoho do you guys have rum? hohoho" or just simply ignores them. He needs a quirk! And he may be strong as hell, but that doesn't mean he'll intentionally cave 'em in. I think Kid and co won't be hurt hurt. Like, if luffy got stomped on, like if a giant walked past and didn't see him and stepped on him, it legit wouldnt do any damage to Luffy. So I'm thinking that it'll be like a pat in the back. Not a real fight, just tension and Kaidoh not really looking at them as real enemies. Me so hyped :3 |
Isterio said: DarkAngelz said: For some reason I feel more like Kid and co are flies. Kaidoh will laugh, flick them with his finger like they're boogers, and go on his merry way. When I say flick, I'm not even sure in what way. Either he'll swat 'em like they're flies, or he'll toss 'em over his shoulder, he'll simply stomp them as he walks ignoring them, befriends them in the "hohoho do you guys have rum? hohoho" or just simply ignores them. He needs a quirk! And he may be strong as hell, but that doesn't mean he'll intentionally cave 'em in. I think Kid and co won't be hurt hurt. Like, if luffy got stomped on, like if a giant walked past and didn't see him and stepped on him, it legit wouldnt do any damage to Luffy. So I'm thinking that it'll be like a pat in the back. Not a real fight, just tension and Kaidoh not really looking at them as real enemies. Me so hyped :3 That would be certainly a possible conflusion for Luffy, who´d fight just for fun with him and even after beating him declaring that he doesn´t care abou his territory. However Kid is a whole different beast, the guy is described as ambitious, brutal and ruthless and Kaido fucked up his ship. I could see Hawkins being the rational one in the scenario and possibly holding him back, however if that doesn´t happen I don´t see Kid letting it fly, that Kaido nonchalantly fucked up his ship by mistake. The reason why I don´t think this interaction will have any friendship involved is because Kid claimed to wanna beat a Yonko. Kaido would save him the trouble of the search for Shanks, therefore making him a possible target. On the other hand Kaido´s quirk seems to be the incapabability of dying because of a resilient body, there is no need for a drinking quirk. Ofc you´re free to think otherwise but that´s my reasoning why I didn´t include the "become friends" option. Hmm those are some things I considered. I don't think Kid's so much of an idiot though. He's got a brain, and even though I doubt they'd be friends I pictured it more like: "Hohoho I want some rum" *Kid and co stare each other with surprise and like WTF expressions / scared to death* Kid and co: ..." "Give me your rum!" Kid and co "..." *runs to get rum and hands it to Kaidoh* "Yohohoho good rum. Off to now kill Dofla" Kaidoh leaves Kid and co just stare each other all dumb founded. This is most likely NOT going to happen. But I doubt Kid'll pick a fight. He's the leader of a group. A group that was meeting together in order to PLAN how they'd take down a yonko. This suggests that he's not so reckless as to attack without a plan. Of course, he's also not a coward. There might be a retreat. Idk. I honestly don't think there'll be a real battle. Maybe a small spat, like Kaidoh being all intimidating, but I doubt anything big will happen in terms of violence. It's also unlikely Kid and co will join 'im. Honestly this can go in a million directions. If anything, maybe Kid and co will attack Kaidoh because it's either that or die, and Kaidoh takes it, doesn't get injured, and then wipes the floor with 'em, then leaves. He'll probably laugh heartily when he grabs 'em by the legs and whips 'em across the island like a titan. That would be hilarious. Then he just walks away and steals one of their ships. Hahaha that would all be hilarious actually. I mean, his quirk seems to be the suicide thing, so this might make the most sense. He 'wants' to die so maybe he'll tank any attack and then attack them. *shrug* |
Ok we got that point down, do you remember any fight outside of Thriller Bark vs Oz where Luffy and the Strawhats fought together and not individually enemie by enemie? Because I dont, this was the one instance where they teamed up, but later Moria was claimed to be "stronger than Oz" after eating all the Shadows yet Luffy kinda won 1vs1 because "the toll" his own ability took on him. Luffy, Zoro and Sanji did team up to defeat a Pacifista remember? Man I briefly remember stuff from Thriller Bark, but to me personally that arc was 'funny' in a way I couldn't take it seriously, the jokes, the zombies etc. The aftermath was great tho. You´ve mentioned how it´s an impressive feat how Kaido survived that 10k height fall. May i remind you Pell survived a Bomb with an explosion of 5km diameter explosion radius, Connys father Pagaya or whatver he´s called (regular skyman) survived Enels 300000 volt lightning.So the impressiveness of Kaido´s feat is not him surviving but being pretty unharmed by that. although it´s hard to compare a 5km nuke to a fall from 10k m height. I don´t know the math on that but I´d give the damage potential to the bomb, although there is only a small area in which Pell got hit and most of the energy dispersed to the atmosphere, he should have been hit with more energy than Kaido. Pell surviving that blast was BS, and that was in the beginning, since then Oda changed a bit, where he doesn't pull that crap anymore. Anyway the guy is hyped and he´s powerful. he also has an unknown amount of experience and training. Can we agree that Luffy is arrogant and overconfident and never fought a person 2vs1 untill Doffy, which was a special case since it was a personal case for Law? I don't consider him arrogant, maybe a little, but he trained in order to become stronger, and not make the same mistakes he made in the past. He has the will to fight. Can we also agree that, that Doffy was trying to overthrow Kaido because he was close in strength to him in a 1vs1? The tactic behind this is unknown and left open to speculation. However I found it most likely juding from Oda´s writting pattern and Luffy´s established character that he´ll have the intention of taking Kaido on 1vs1. I think Doffy knows something about Kaido, he has a lot of information, so he might know his weakness, or something else that would make him achieve his goals. See here I disagree, he made his alliance with Law to take out Kaido, the two of them, Luffy said he wants to take on Shanks by himself. If they fight Kaido, he'll probably be the one to deliver the final blow, but fighting him on equal terms... There are also more arguments speaking for that conclusion. Doffy was exceptionally stronger than any of his crewmates at least seemingly. He trusted in Peeka being capable of taking care of anyone on the island including Sabo and Fujitora while having witnessed his abilities and knowing that he´s an Admiral. Ofc that all could be just dismissed as severe overconfidence on Doffy´s part, which would somewhat contradict his identity as an underground genius. Man Doffy's executives were really underwhelming, Zoro ran around and 1-hit K.O-ed Peeka. Diamante defeated by Kyros, with one leg, and he injured the only leg he had. They were pretty weak, so the powerlevel between him and his mates is disgusting, if he plan to do something with them, it would've been useless. The only one that was somewhat useful was Sugar. Doffy didn´t show much restraint in fightning Aokiji proving furthermore that he isn´t afraid of a single Admiral (person with Admiral level powers), be it through arrogance, through time restraints, or even through fear, yet I consider fear unlikely judging from his ability to nulify Aokiji´s ice and his behaviour towards him. Doffy is arrogant, we know what Aokiji can do if he went all out (Punk Hazard). My personal assumption is that Doffy just feared Kaido including his army since he didn´t think that his men would suffice for the task, yet. Pretty much, yeah. The introduction of Kaido facing the Kid alliance can go 3 ways imo. 1. Kaido beats the shit out of them. 2. They join him/escape him in order for survival. 3. They do actually beat Kaido in a fight we see/won´t see barely alive but take his place and replace him as a mark for Luffy to overcome. Showcasing how Kid is a step ahead of Luffy, similar to how his bounty was higher on introduction. I agree one of those 3 can possibly happen, 1 and 2 are the most favorable in my opinion. Whatever possible route Oda takes with Kaido his importance for the following arc seems to be of high value, because compared to Big Mom he had a proper introduction and Sanji already stricked down one of his men. Judging from the fact that he´s described as hotblooded it´s likely that he´ll feel chalenged by that action. There´s also the fact that Luffy was aware that he would challenge him, by destroying the smile factory, meaning that although Luffy´s always arrogant about his fights, he still pulls through. Making Luffy lose with the requirement of another timeskip would just repeat the purpose and Character developemt of the first timeskip. Yeah, but we might get some sort of 'flash forward', because again since now Luffy is in a alliance, Law is smart, and they respect each other, so if there will be a defeat ahead, I'm sure he'll be pretty smart to retreat while they can, and form another plan, now his enemy is not someone that easy. |
DarkAngelz said: Does that clear things up? What do you consider a timeskip? I read it more as a training timeskip, and that's where my disagreements sprang. for starters, i accept a training arc as a big timeskip, which i only see happening while they're all together on an inhabited island for them to give each other tricks of becoming better at certain haki techniques. Then there is the sailing times, injury times, where not everyone is injured just like now, Zoro can easily still keep training on the way as he is uninjured. I also consider these as small 'timeskips'. Basically the time we won't see or barely see anything from. |
|
Lelouch_Darsi said: Ofc, do you even need to ask? Typical One Piece: Luffy always defeat the villains no matter how strong they seem to be. The question you should ask is does Luffy posses the strength to oppose Kaido at the moment? Or how will Luffy beat Kaido? well, in our discussions we all already pretty much agreed that he can't atm, he couldn't even beat Mingo on his own. atm we're searching ways as of how he would succeed in taking down Kaido (just read most of the comments and you'll get an idea of everyone's thoughts) and are trying to improve all the thoughts. |
|
| ok the whole thing about luffy progressive getting stronger. its not wrong however I think you guys are overestimating luffys ability to do so. sure from arlong to lucci is a big jump. however there was two whole arcs inbetween those two. also luffy's base strength wasnt that much stronger when he faced lucci compared to when he fought arlong. its just that he gained gear 2nd and 3rd which made up for his lack in strength against lucci. im not saying we necessarily need a time skip for luffy to beat a yonkou. however I think we can all agree that luffy is gonna need a power up one way or the other. luffy just got a power up. which btw was barely enough to defeat doflamingo. Oda cant be handing out power ups like candy. unless you want OP to be like Naruto ROFL. so imo that leaves two choices. either luffy faces other opponents before he fights the yonkou which will build up some time so he can get another power up. or there is another time skip so he can get another power up much sooner. my problem with the first one. is OP is supposedly 70% done. look at how long this arc alone was. will there really be enough time for luffy to fight a bunch of new characters. then move on to the yonkou, and admirals. also im not saying the time skip has to be as long as the first one. it could be something short. possibly luffy will find a new mentor. even if we dont get one it will be fascinating to see how luffy gets strong enough to beat the yonkou. |
astrozombie84 said: ok the whole thing about luffy progressive getting stronger. its not wrong however I think you guys are overestimating luffys ability to do so. sure from arlong to lucci is a big jump. however there was two whole arcs inbetween those two. Entire gigantic arcs that don't encompass a single thing like Dressrosa, too. Baroque Works to CP9 is a very long while. Much less Arlong. And who knows how many arcs we are from from now until the end of the series. There's plenty to cover. But do remember this, a year did not past between Arlong and to Marineford. At least not one made obvious. also luffy's base strength wasnt that much stronger when he faced lucci compared to when he fought arlong. its just that he gained gear 2nd and 3rd which made up for his lack in strength against lucci. This is getting stronger, the first speed wise the second (physical) strength wise. im not saying we necessarily need a time skip for luffy to beat a yonkou. however I think we can all agree that luffy is gonna need a power up one way or the other. luffy just got a power up. which btw was barely enough to defeat doflamingo. Oda cant be handing out power ups like candy. unless you want OP to be like Naruto ROFL. He's already set one up in advance with awakening, which seems to turn things around the user into their corresponding devil fruit power. Like Dolfamingo used awakening to turn the building into strings. so imo that leaves two choices. either luffy faces other opponents before he fights the yonkou which will build up some time so he can get another power up. or there is another time skip so he can get another power up much sooner. my problem with the first one. is OP is supposedly 70% done. look at how long this arc alone was. will there really be enough time for luffy to fight a bunch of new characters. then move on to the yonkou, and admirals. also im not saying the time skip has to be as long as the first one. it could be something short. possibly luffy will find a new mentor. That was a rough estimate made by an editor(? not quite sure but p sure it wasnt Oda), he's already set up plenty things already, disregarding the fact that he can make more. Unless he trims over it, we should have a pretty decent while to go. If you want to be strict about what his 'editor' 'estimated', we still have a good while to go. And even than, somewhere in thegrandline, I've found that apparently he estimated the series to end three years from it's start. It did not end three years from it's start. Timeskips are a lazy way to go unless there's really good reason and really good build up, one already happened with plenty build up so I don't see the point from a storytelling perspective of doing it again. One Piece has been going on so long without one. The point of there being even stronger people out there has been hammered in very well. Yes, Warlord, Emperors, Admirals, Logia. The entire war really. Crocodile, Moriah, Dolfamingo, Buggy he's defeated three already. With realtime, it's possible. I just can't see the point of ANOTHER timeskip. He's got bested continuously for like three(realtime) years in a row with the sabaody, impel down and war arc. If that's doesn't satisfy the 'luffy not beating everyone" fulfillment I don't know what does. I liked how he used the wax against magellan, the water and blood against crocodile, shadow luffy. There's plenty of ways for creative fights without the use of too many powerups. Granted this was pre-haki, but we aren't really getting anything new from a story perspective with another timeskip. And those aren't very easy to pull off already. With the whole splitting the sky thing Shanks and WB showed, we've already had a hint that there's a bit more to Haki. So there's that. |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
Isterio said: astrozombie84 said: ok the whole thing about luffy progressive getting stronger. its not wrong however I think you guys are overestimating luffys ability to do so. sure from arlong to lucci is a big jump. however there was two whole arcs inbetween those two. also luffy's base strength wasnt that much stronger when he faced lucci compared to when he fought arlong. its just that he gained gear 2nd and 3rd which made up for his lack in strength against lucci. im not saying we necessarily need a time skip for luffy to beat a yonkou. however I think we can all agree that luffy is gonna need a power up one way or the other. luffy just got a power up. which btw was barely enough to defeat doflamingo. Oda cant be handing out power ups like candy. unless you want OP to be like Naruto ROFL. so imo that leaves two choices. either luffy faces other opponents before he fights the yonkou which will build up some time so he can get another power up. or there is another time skip so he can get another power up much sooner. my problem with the first one. is OP is supposedly 70% done. look at how long this arc alone was. will there really be enough time for luffy to fight a bunch of new characters. then move on to the yonkou, and admirals. also im not saying the time skip has to be as long as the first one. it could be something short. possibly luffy will find a new mentor. even if we dont get one it will be fascinating to see how luffy gets strong enough to beat the yonkou. Besides the story and atmosphere One Piece isn´t written any different than Naruto. Both are childish at times and both sacrifice potential story development to appeal to the Shounen audience. Luffy´s power ups(modes). Gear 1+ Gear2 introduced simultaniously (No training requied) Haki (Training required, natural talent speed up the process) Gear 4 (part of Haki training) Probably has Gear 5 as backup. Naruto´s power ups and by that I mean power ups not new jutsu else I´d have to count Luffy´s countless variations of Gomu-Gomu-No he hadn´t performed on earlier instances. Timeskip was worthless besides better body constitution and higher chakra pool. Sage Mode (required training, Bunshin cheating sped up the process/ monthly training was worth several decades). as Kurama (required also training/mental beatdown of Kurama). So6P power up who came at the end of the series. 3 in total both MC´s have just 3 power ups who noticebly change their appearenaces and multiply their powers. Goku inspired both and had just 4 himself, Kaioken. SS1 2,3. G4 obviously isn´t the top of the foodchain and the Manga isn´t even done and Luffy already has 4 power ups that change his appeareance and multiply his powerlevels. What in gods name speaks against the addition of several others? Especially when your example contradicts itself. Let´s say i take Hahki as a power up out Luffy still has 3 the same amount Naruto had by the end. Regardiing the Dressrosa arc, I doubt we´ll see an arc of that length again besides the final arc. It was an introduction introuced alot and was slow as fuck. I actually thoroughly believe and hope that Oda will step up his game and that future arcs will be Marine ford paced. My assumption is that Oda actually could had wrapped up Dressrosa in 60-70 chapters but he intends to fullfill a certain chapter count, which is why we get garbage chapters where nothing happens. The chapter count being 100. Probably a personal challenge. Once 800 hits it´ll be his first 100 chapter arc. actually naruto got 2 kyuubi modes. the first one which your right he did train for. then the second one which he pulled out his ass. main difference between the two is the second one had a cape, and first one didnt. also one piece has more content then naruto. also i never said there was anything wrong with luffy gaining powerups i just dont want him to get a new one every arc for no apparent reason. |
| guys i just found another way how SH-Heart Pirate Alliance could win against kaido, although i must say i have a double feeling myself about the possibility.. How about the Whitebeard Pirates (I'll just keep calling them that as we know nothing of them since the end of the war), wouldn't it be possible for them to finally show themselves again and go meet up with Luffy to help him? Why i got a double feeling about it: i see this happening as they all had TREMENDOUS respect for Whitebeard and i feel like they accept Luffy as one of their 'family', also they saw Whitebeard had somewhat a form of, how to call it, euhm.. respect(??) towards Luffy. The reason i don't see it happening yet, is cuz i mainly see them helping out against BB or some of the higher ranked marines (although for BB i also have a double feeling as his crew is freakin' small too like SH Pirates, with a crazy amount of strength nonetheless though) |
|
ziggy_Z said: People need to wrap their heads around the concept of Haki. This is the power Luffy needs to master, not his DF, not awakening it (sure, that'd be a big plus but not a paramount necessity). People need to remember BB cancels out DF power. Haki is the key for that not happening, and Haki is not something that one masters in the span of a couple months, it takes a long, long time. Exactly just like you said, Haki is the power that Luffy need to master because BB cancel DF power. but at the same time just like you said, It takes time to learn Haki, and qoncueror Haki can't even trained since it gets stronger as the user grow stronger. It actually fits perfectly, Luffy gonna faced BB way later in the story line, which is enough time for him to master Haki perfectly. Now the thing is, one does not simply underestimate DF power, it is the supposed miracle/cursed power in One Piece world and the usefulness of it has been shown many time thorughout the series. There's many ways to do power up in One Piece world with the right Devil Fruit. Luffy defeat Moria+Oz that the whole crew can't even beat with the help of Shadow Shadow Fruit. Now, Devil Fruit around him that he can use as a power up is OP-OP Fruit, he could do a modification on his body to get a significant power up. who know? it's Oda after all. And in worst case, Luffy could use Gon-esque adult transformation using Bonney power if necessary (That if he could make Bonney into his ally ofcourse). My point is, learnign Haki takes time and can't be rushed, if he want to get stronger in a short amount of time, Devil Fruit is the answer. Maybe creating new gear or awakening it. After he can completely master his DF power, now came the Haki training as a preparation to fight Teachy. |
 |
| Luffy's gear 5: gumo gumo no... EYEBALL CANON!! (clearly joking for the ones who can't see it) |
|
Isterio said: astrozombie84 said: actually naruto got 2 kyuubi modes. the first one which your right he did train for. then the second one which he pulled out his ass. main difference between the two is the second one had a cape, and first one didnt. also one piece has more content then naruto. also i never said there was anything wrong with luffy gaining powerups i just dont want him to get a new one every arc for no apparent reason. There´s always a reason for a power up in a Shounen, it´s the basic usage of an ability to overcome ones boundries, in order to solve the buildup suspension. However the level of foreshadowing necessary to make something be an asspull or not is decided by the individual perceiving it. No matter how much you complain about it Naruto´s 2nd Kyubi mode you claim to be an asspull had plenty of foreshadowing. Killer Bee being one example, since he was capable of full transformation, secondly Naruto´s claim right after the training arc when he tells Kurama "I´m gonna cleanse that evilnes within you" or whatever. Was it rushed? Was the development of the relationship between Naruto and Kurama too fast paced?Arguably i do think it was. However it had better foreshadowing and was claimed to happen way earlier than Luffy´s Gear 4. Whose level of foreshadowing was, there is 2 and 3 so there could be higher ones, besides that there´s nothing that ever implied that ability, though after a training arc it´s justified. You´ve also clearly stated dislike towards continues power ups. But that´s how Shounen work and Oda is no different, prepare yourself for Gear 5 and DF awakening (which is even less of an asspull than any of the gears) within the next 200 chapters.We know about DF awakening since Impel down 300 chapters back, it would be only natural for Luffy to unlock that ability any time soon, since his fights constantly train his DF and even some random beasts could accomplish that feat. As for gear 5, remember how he claimed to have learned Gear 4? Big Monsters attacking him, he had to think of a way to overcome them Gear 2/3 didn´t work, so he just came up with something new. I bet he´ll just achieve that during the Kaido fight. Big beast he can´t overcome Gear 2-4 won´t work so he´ll come with Gear 5. your not getting it at all >.< also why are you talking to me like im new to anime/manga? I know what shounens are like, seeing as how ive watched/read alot of them. I dont have a problem with power ups. . I just don't like it when characters get power ups one after another. there should be a certain amount of space between them. in naruto he gets 2 power ups shortly after getting kyuubi mode #1 granted i get it, its final battle so it to be expected. however I dont want that happening in OP at this moment in time. he shouldnt get a gear 5th right after getting gear 4th. that literally all im trying to say. so please stop taking my words out of context. I never said that I don't like power ups. I just think they should be used sparingly. |
astrozombie84 said: your not getting it at all >.< also why are you talking to me like im new to anime/manga? I know what shounens are like, seeing as how ive watched/read alot of them. I dont have a problem with power ups. . I just don't like it when characters get power ups one after another. there should be a certain amount of space between them. in naruto he gets 2 power ups shortly after getting kyuubi mode #1 granted i get it, its final battle so it to be expected. however I dont want that happening in OP at this moment in time. he shouldnt get a gear 5th right after getting gear 4th. that literally all im trying to say. so please stop taking my words out of context. I never said that I don't like power ups. I just think they should be used sparingly. Well it did happen in Enies Lobby, he had 2 power-ups one after another in the same arc. If Luffy has a Gear 5, he should probably use it against the final villain, which is... whoever it'll be. He might not have it, tho a lot of people assumed he has it, after they saw Gear 4, some even wanted to see it in the fight with Doffy (assuming he has it)... but that would've been so stupid. |
metsujinAug 25, 2015 11:36 AM
Isterio said: There is only one Gear in the classical sense to be discovered, since Oda already used blood, bones and muscle as a basis he only has skin left. However that´s unlikely so if he´s gonna introduce Gear 5 I´m assuming that´ll be something completely different maybe even have a different name. Ye probably skin ye if there would come a new one and indeed unlikely as i feel that somewhat would be the same feat as Haki... Mentioning his gears though, perhaps he'll figure out a way to add them all at the same time? like with gear 2 and 3 he was able to use them simultaniously at some point, how about he figures out a way to control all 3 simultaniously? could refer to it as a Perfect Gear or smth. i could see him getting a power up like that, theoretically, it'd make him MUCH stronger. |
|
Isterio said: astrozombie84 said: your not getting it at all >.< also why are you talking to me like im new to anime/manga? I know what shounens are like, seeing as how ive watched/read alot of them. I dont have a problem with power ups. . I just don't like it when characters get power ups one after another. there should be a certain amount of space between them. in naruto he gets 2 power ups shortly after getting kyuubi mode #1 granted i get it, its final battle so it to be expected. however I dont want that happening in OP at this moment in time. he shouldnt get a gear 5th right after getting gear 4th. that literally all im trying to say. so please stop taking my words out of context. I never said that I don't like power ups. I just think they should be used sparingly. But that would yet again contradict the fight with Rob Lucy where he gained 2 power ups at once. I mean your drawing of the line seems to be arbitary to me , when Gear 2+3 are ok to appear simultaniously, with a 200 chapter gap to Haki. But then it´s not ok for Gear 5 to do the same? I never implied that those power ups will appear shortly after Dressrosa but within the next 200 chapters. Between 800-1000. That´s actually around the same amount of chapters the war arc took to introduce 2 power ups. With around 70ish chapters inbetween. The sole difference being that those power ups appeared in one series in between several arcs and the other having them stuffed within the last arc. Which again contradicts your argument if you´re not also opposed to the introduction of Gear 2+3, which you have not given any statements towards yet. If you however dislike Gear 2+3 then your argument is legit. you never implied that it would or it wouldnt. never said you implied anything at all. i was just giving my opinion on the matter. yes 200 chapters would be ok with me. assuming the next arc isnt 200 chapters long anyways. also i never liked gear 3rd. makes the fights kinda wonky. also thought it was unnecessary. gear 2nd not only gave him speed but more power because of the speed. so why introduce a gear that only increases power. |
astrozombie84 said: also i never liked gear 3rd. makes the fights kinda wonky. also thought it was unnecessary. gear 2nd not only gave him speed but more power because of the speed. so why introduce a gear that only increases power. While Gear Second is faster, so, er, he gets more attacks in(???), Gear Third is like really really strong and stuff. Super strong. Stronger than Gear Second could ever be, or at least that's what I think we are suppose to assume. Isterio said: However there are alot of people with ridiculous double standarts on this side. Especially in the Shounen genre. I´ve lost count how many people call out Naruto and Bleach on their plotholes and completely disregard the ones in One Piece. (objective plotholes at that). lol plotholes are not why naruto is bad, at least far from the main reason(s). There are probably plotholes in One Piece, it's almost 800 chapters long that's to be expected unless the artist is perfect(hint: he isn't). But at the end of the day, think about how much these plotholes matter and effect the plot. Both series. They seem to just be mistakes that can be perfectly ignored. What's worse is when the major theme(s) of the manga is completely changed and disregarded, or when the characters are bad, dull(annoying-sometimes)and/or predictable. n-not to say any series has done that. But plotholes can usually be ignored. |
ashfrliebertAug 25, 2015 7:43 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
Isterio said: . See I´ve got the feeling regarding One Piece that it´s "cartoony" nature allows it to do senseless contradicting stuff and get away with it. Fact is Oda is cherrypicky with his logic and at that quite severe. I don´t want this to escalate so just 3 things out the top of my head that I consider cool but Bs. Zorro´s Asura. Sanji´s Hell Memories. Luffy´s Gear 3. Let's take aside one thing, I believe the second is pretty much a gag-technique used for humor, or at least I think. How he doesn't burn his leg is a question though, I guess. For gear third, he seems to expand his bones...by blowing? I think the first one is some sorta of illusion. Anyway both series hold a special place in my heart, Subjectively I´ve nearly shed a tear during Kushina´s arc and cringed at Ace´s death because I felt trolled. But I´ve also cringed at Kabuto´s flashback and nearly shed a tear during Brooks flashback. My point is plotholes are 'usually' minor, and can 'usually' be ignored. Most of the time it just seems to be inconsistent mistakes made in a panel or two. Nothing particularly against Naruto. |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
More topics from this board
Poll: » One Piece Chapter 799 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 )Georesa - Sep 2, 2015 |
228 |
by KenjaTimer
»»
3 hours ago |
|
Poll: » One Piece Chapter 798 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Aug 26, 2015 |
138 |
by KenjaTimer
»»
3 hours ago |
|
Poll: » One Piece Chapter 1113 DiscussionFMmatron - Apr 23 |
13 |
by Ridzaxster
»»
5 hours ago |
|
Poll: » One Piece Chapter 1112 DiscussionAhriTheS3xyFox - Apr 16 |
32 |
by Biisoo
»»
Yesterday, 8:44 AM |
|
Poll: » One Piece Chapter 1 Discussion ( 1 2 )Veronin - Nov 1, 2009 |
73 |
by crumb_fr
»»
Apr 22, 3:52 PM |