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Jul 16, 2015 6:26 PM
#101
Jul 16, 2015 6:32 PM
#102
There needs to be a "Depends" option. If someone who pirates would just not watch anime if they had to pay then no because it doesn't hurt anyone then, but if people who would be willing to pay but don't because its so easy to pirate it then it hurts the industry. Also when I say industry I mostly mean the western industry EX: Crunchyroll Funimation. On the other hand I doubt as many people would ever get into anime without pirating them. For example when I first got into anime I never had netflix and watch FMA (2003) on some crappy streaming site so if I had to pay I would never be watching anime today. Overall I think it does more good then bad, but I feel like "It depends" would be the best way to put it. (Sorry for the long response :P). |
:P |
Jul 16, 2015 6:38 PM
#103
Drunk_Samurai said: You're the one who claimed that a law is inherently right. No I didn't, I said this laws are made to maintain social order, morality in itself is subjective so the only thing we have to go off is laws. Until the law changes, it is wrong to break the law.. pushing for change is a completely different story. There is no mention of the law being right and I even said pushing for change is acceptable. I also said morality is subjective, meaning what is right and wrong is based on people/societies opinions. The problem with copyright laws is you can get the RIAA charging 900,000+ per song when the song isn't even worth that much especially on shit like iTunes. They should be charging the amount of each pirated file. Also once again you're so wrong that a person who says the earth is flat is right. Which I stated the law needs a lot of work, that doesn't mean you should be able to get it for free. (Unless of course, the creator says so)NO court will call copyright infringement theft due to the fact that they are actually treated differently in court. Copyright infringement as in downloading is civil while actually physically stealing something would be a criminal act. Hell even bootlegging is something that would be a criminal act instead. They wouldn't go to court for civil. Also many people pirate something then later buy it. I already defined what a lost sale is. My definition of lost sale is LITERALLY the only one. The company wouldn't have made any money off some kid who had no intention of buying Naruto and just wanted to watch it. Which shows how very little you know about laws. Theft is BOTH a civil and a criminal offense you can sue someone for monetary or equitable remedies (aka a civil offense) And/or they can also get jail time or be tried by a criminal court for theft(aka a criminal offense"). Bootlegging is the making, distribution, or selling of things that are illegal. Which is why it is a criminal offense. There is no way for me to be sued by someone else other than the criminal court If I make something illegal and I sell it. In the case of bootlegging someone elses work you'd be hit with 2 different lawsuits, a criminal one and a civil one which would have to do with the theft of intellectual property. So alright i'll give it to you, copyright infringement is not theft but theft of intellectual property is. Since copying is both copyright infringement and theft of intellectual property, my statement still holds. There is nothing in the definition of stealing that states that the creator has to physically lose something. Is it wrong for me to come up with something and create something (aka my work/ideas) and then for you to give it away and make copies of it without my permission? You yourself gave the definition of stealing : to take (something that does not belong to you) in a way that is wrong or illegal : to take (something that you are not supposed to have) without asking for permission : to wrongly take and use (another person's idea, words, etc.) |
KamiCityJul 16, 2015 6:58 PM
Jul 16, 2015 6:42 PM
#104
If it were more available in the usa i would consider buying a few dvds, but i'm not going to pay excessive prices to import something i can watch for free. Same way i feel about old out of print records, if the artist isn't interested in making their records easy to find, then i'm okay with downloading them. Anime probably never will be easy to get a hold of in the usa though, because there isn't as much of a market for it |
Jul 16, 2015 6:44 PM
#105
I feel a bit sad that more people voted no than yes. Pirating is wrong. Truth. Lol I still do that anyway. There's no other way for me to watch anime. There's no market here. I'm an ass. |
I'm a sucker for strong female characters. |
Jul 16, 2015 6:46 PM
#106
Riki_Oh said: If it were more available in the usa i would consider buying a few dvds, but i'm not going to pay excessive prices to import something i can watch for free. Same way i feel about old out of print records, if the artist isn't interested in making their records easy to find, then i'm okay with downloading them. Anime probably never will be easy to get a hold of in the usa though, because there isn't as much of a market for it There are multiple legal ways to get those imports a lot cheaper, ebay being one of them... you can even switch between regions on some devices like your laptop so buying something from a different region that offers it much cheaper like the UK is also another way to do it. As far as I know there is nothing illegal about purchasing products from other regions lol |
Jul 16, 2015 7:34 PM
#107
Is pirating anime wrong? You bet your ass it is. It's still stealing no matter how you put it. In my opinion, if you live in a country that has no access to anime, you should feel free to go for it. But don't go in with the notion that because your location doesn't have proper streaming privileges, that you're entitled to it. Whether you have access or not is irrelevant, like I mentioned before, it's still stealing. With that being said though, I only illegitimately stream as an absolute last resort. If there's a show in interested in. I'll check every legal site I know to stream. If that doesn't work, I'll see if it's readily available for purchase if it's licensed. If I find no solution, I'll consider going to kissanime. Also, if you live in North America and the show you're interested in is readily available on Crunchyroll or Hulu to stream for FREE and you refuse to watch it there. Then you're simply being blatantly disrepectful. For the longest time now, I've been meaning to watch Legend of the Galactic Heroes. For as long I've known about the show and its dedicated fan base, no one has acquired the license for the show. Until recently however, Sentai Filmworks has grabbed license of the show and will hopefully be able to distribute the show soon. Unfortunately, Sentai Filmworks titles aren't carried to most stores. Not even Best Buy which is my go to place. (And the nearest store to me that has an adequate amount of anime.) So I'll have to go online for that. Now Monster (another series I really want to watch) is a different story, Viz Media produced one set of it and has not to this day finished distributing the show. I'm assuming it's due to poor sales. But Viz still has rights to the entirety of the manga which is what I'll be reading as soon as they finish producing their "Perfect Collection". |
Jul 16, 2015 9:46 PM
#108
KamiCity said: Drunk_Samurai said: You're the one who claimed that a law is inherently right. No I didn't, I said this laws are made to maintain social order, morality in itself is subjective so the only thing we have to go off is laws. Until the law changes, it is wrong to break the law.. pushing for change is a completely different story. There is no mention of the law being right and I even said pushing for change is acceptable. I also said morality is subjective, meaning what is right and wrong is based on people/societies opinions. The problem with copyright laws is you can get the RIAA charging 900,000+ per song when the song isn't even worth that much especially on shit like iTunes. They should be charging the amount of each pirated file. Also once again you're so wrong that a person who says the earth is flat is right. Which I stated the law needs a lot of work, that doesn't mean you should be able to get it for free. (Unless of course, the creator says so)NO court will call copyright infringement theft due to the fact that they are actually treated differently in court. Copyright infringement as in downloading is civil while actually physically stealing something would be a criminal act. Hell even bootlegging is something that would be a criminal act instead. They wouldn't go to court for civil. Also many people pirate something then later buy it. I already defined what a lost sale is. My definition of lost sale is LITERALLY the only one. The company wouldn't have made any money off some kid who had no intention of buying Naruto and just wanted to watch it. Which shows how very little you know about laws. Theft is BOTH a civil and a criminal offense you can sue someone for monetary or equitable remedies (aka a civil offense) And/or they can also get jail time or be tried by a criminal court for theft(aka a criminal offense"). Bootlegging is the making, distribution, or selling of things that are illegal. Which is why it is a criminal offense. There is no way for me to be sued by someone else other than the criminal court If I make something illegal and I sell it. In the case of bootlegging someone elses work you'd be hit with 2 different lawsuits, a criminal one and a civil one which would have to do with the theft of intellectual property. So alright i'll give it to you, copyright infringement is not theft but theft of intellectual property is. Since copying is both copyright infringement and theft of intellectual property, my statement still holds. There is nothing in the definition of stealing that states that the creator has to physically lose something. Is it wrong for me to come up with something and create something (aka my work/ideas) and then for you to give it away and make copies of it without my permission? You yourself gave the definition of stealing : to take (something that does not belong to you) in a way that is wrong or illegal : to take (something that you are not supposed to have) without asking for permission : to wrongly take and use (another person's idea, words, etc.) If the law is wrong then there is nothing bad about breaking it. Also yes it has to be physical. That's the definition of theft. Something that is physically TAKEN and not COPYING something. That is 100% why copyright infringement will never be theft. But I guess you missed out on some really early schooling and can't tell the difference between two different words and concepts. Shit, you would have learned the definition of taking as far back as kindergarten. That last definition doesn't even have anything to do with what we are talking about. toatuta said: I feel a bit sad that more people voted no than yes. Pirating is wrong. Truth. Lol I still do that anyway. There's no other way for me to watch anime. There's no market here. I'm an ass. It makes me feel happy. If it makes you feel any better if this poll was done 5-7 years ago on MAL then there would be like only 12 or so votes for yes. TheDerpMan said: Is pirating anime wrong? You bet your ass it is. It's still stealing no matter how you put it. In my opinion, if you live in a country that has no access to anime, you should feel free to go for it. But don't go in with the notion that because your location doesn't have proper streaming privileges, that you're entitled to it. Whether you have access or not is irrelevant, like I mentioned before, it's still stealing. With that being said though, I only illegitimately stream as an absolute last resort. If there's a show in interested in. I'll check every legal site I know to stream. If that doesn't work, I'll see if it's readily available for purchase if it's licensed. If I find no solution, I'll consider going to kissanime. Also, if you live in North America and the show you're interested in is readily available on Crunchyroll or Hulu to stream for FREE and you refuse to watch it there. Then you're simply being blatantly disrepectful. For the longest time now, I've been meaning to watch Legend of the Galactic Heroes. For as long I've known about the show and its dedicated fan base, no one has acquired the license for the show. Until recently however, Sentai Filmworks has grabbed license of the show and will hopefully be able to distribute the show soon. Unfortunately, Sentai Filmworks titles aren't carried to most stores. Not even Best Buy which is my go to place. (And the nearest store to me that has an adequate amount of anime.) So I'll have to go online for that. Now Monster (another series I really want to watch) is a different story, Viz Media produced one set of it and has not to this day finished distributing the show. I'm assuming it's due to poor sales. But Viz still has rights to the entirety of the manga which is what I'll be reading as soon as they finish producing their "Perfect Collection". "http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steal Stealing is taking. Copyright infringement is copying." Also Crunchyroll is shit. |
Jul 16, 2015 9:51 PM
#109
It is wrong but I'm not justice enough to pay for it.. While on the other hand I am paying for fucking Netflix which is €10 a month, and I don't even watch Netflix because I only watch anime... Fuck me I just realized this. |
Jul 16, 2015 10:00 PM
#110
Yes. It's pretty sad to see the poll results. It's one thing to be a pirate, it's another to be completely delusional and act like not paying for a product is somehow justified because you can't afford it (or whatever other excuse you have). If you're gonna pirate stuff, at the very least you can own that shit. I subscribe to Funinimation and Crunchyroll but for any anime that isn't on either of those services, I pirate it. I'll buy the BD's/DVD's of shows I really like but for shows I may or may not watch in the future and really just want for archival purposes, I'll pirate it. Why? Because I'm a cheap bastard. I'm not owed those shows simply because they aren't on the services I'm willing to pay for or because they aren't my favorites shows. Bluntly put, I do it because I can and the likelihood of their being any consequences are minimal. That said, I'm still going to call a spade a spade. Piracy is illegal and overall harmful to the anime industry. Period. |
Jul 16, 2015 10:29 PM
#111
Shirayukishi said: It is wrong but I'm not justice enough to pay for it.. |
Jul 16, 2015 10:58 PM
#112
Drunk_Samurai said: If the law is wrong then there is nothing bad about breaking it. What part of "Right and Wrong" is subjective don't you understand? Also yes it has to be physical. That's the definition of theft. Something that is physically TAKEN and not COPYING something. That is 100% why copyright infringement will never be theft. But I guess you missed out on some really early schooling and can't tell the difference between two different words and concepts. Shit, you would have learned the definition of taking as far back as kindergarten. No it doesn't, there is nothing and I mean absolutely nothing in the definition of stealing that says it has to be physical, the definition (which you yourself put up) even says ideas can be stolen. Ideas are not physical. That last definition doesn't even have anything to do with what we are talking about. Yes it does, the last definition has to do with stealing intellectual property, it has everything to do with what we're talking about.You yourself put up the definition, you yourself can't even comprehend it. |
KamiCityJul 16, 2015 11:02 PM
Jul 17, 2015 2:15 AM
#113
KamiCity said: Drunk_Samurai said: If the law is wrong then there is nothing bad about breaking it. What part of "Right and Wrong" is subjective don't you understand? Also yes it has to be physical. That's the definition of theft. Something that is physically TAKEN and not COPYING something. That is 100% why copyright infringement will never be theft. But I guess you missed out on some really early schooling and can't tell the difference between two different words and concepts. Shit, you would have learned the definition of taking as far back as kindergarten. No it doesn't, there is nothing and I mean absolutely nothing in the definition of stealing that says it has to be physical, the definition (which you yourself put up) even says ideas can be stolen. Ideas are not physical. That last definition doesn't even have anything to do with what we are talking about. Yes it does, the last definition has to do with stealing intellectual property, it has everything to do with what we're talking about.You yourself put up the definition, you yourself can't even comprehend it. Well there is a SEVERE difference though. If you "steal" something (STRG+X) then the original owner DEFINITLY loses one potential customer who they can sell the product to, even if it's not the one who stole it. If you just "copy" something (STRG+C) then the original owner MAY lose the person who copied it as a potential customer, but it does not affect other sales. It's also easy to forget that those who "copy" something aren't necessarily people who would buy the product otherwise, like if they don't have enough money to spare in the first place. The ONLY PEOPLE who would really worsen the sales in that case are those who do have enough money to buy it and would be willing if they couldn't copy it. It's up in the air if the loss of income is greater than the positive effects of the free advertisment of the medium due to all the copying... |
Jul 17, 2015 2:21 AM
#114
Grey-Zone said: Well there is a SEVERE difference though. If you "steal" something (STRG+X) then the original owner DEFINITLY loses one potential customer who they can sell the product to, even if it's not the one who stole it. If you just "copy" something (STRG+C) then the original owner MAY lose the person who copied it as a potential customer, but it does not affect other sales. It's also easy to forget that those who "copy" something aren't necessarily people who would buy the product otherwise, like if they don't have enough money to spare in the first place. The ONLY PEOPLE who would really worsen the sales in that case are those who do have enough money to buy it and would be willing if they couldn't copy it. It's up in the air if the loss of income is greater than the positive effects of the free advertisment of the medium due to all the copying... You are pretending that piracy only competes with direct sales, though. It also competes with legal streaming, which provides advertising revenue and subscriptions for paid users. That is where the switch to streaming is different than the old model, people keep pretending that there was an era when everyone bought everything they watched. That was never true, you had a mix of video rentals, watching on TV (either cable or OTA) and actual home video ownership. Piracy competed with all of those, just as it competes with streaming now. Someone who can't afford to buy a Sentai BD probably can afford to watch the same content, for free with ads, on Hulu. |
Jul 17, 2015 3:04 AM
#115
Grey-Zone said: KamiCity said: Drunk_Samurai said: If the law is wrong then there is nothing bad about breaking it. What part of "Right and Wrong" is subjective don't you understand? Also yes it has to be physical. That's the definition of theft. Something that is physically TAKEN and not COPYING something. That is 100% why copyright infringement will never be theft. But I guess you missed out on some really early schooling and can't tell the difference between two different words and concepts. Shit, you would have learned the definition of taking as far back as kindergarten. No it doesn't, there is nothing and I mean absolutely nothing in the definition of stealing that says it has to be physical, the definition (which you yourself put up) even says ideas can be stolen. Ideas are not physical. That last definition doesn't even have anything to do with what we are talking about. You yourself put up the definition, you yourself can't even comprehend it. Well there is a SEVERE difference though. If you "steal" something (STRG+X) then the original owner DEFINITLY loses one potential customer who they can sell the product to, even if it's not the one who stole it. If you just "copy" something (STRG+C) then the original owner MAY lose the person who copied it as a potential customer, but it does not affect other sales. It's also easy to forget that those who "copy" something aren't necessarily people who would buy the product otherwise, like if they don't have enough money to spare in the first place. The ONLY PEOPLE who would really worsen the sales in that case are those who do have enough money to buy it and would be willing if they couldn't copy it. It's up in the air if the loss of income is greater than the positive effects of the free advertisment of the medium due to all the copying... The definition of steal only states the loss of property, it has nothing to do with potential gain from that property. He's arguing that copying the material is not stealing, but even the actual definition of stealing states that it is. Even piracy itself is derived from the original word that meant robbing ships at sea. Yes I agree with you that the gain/loss of income is debatable, but when it comes to the actual economics of the situation it is a pretty big blow to the industry as a whole. Even if those people wouldn't have bought the product in the first place, they still gained a copy of the product. I'm talking more about downloading here, not watching illegal streams. I'll use books as an example. If I go to a book store, by a physical copy of the book and then us a copy machine to make a copy of the book for a friend. They now have a physical copy of the book without having to pay for it. He just stole the idea (the content of the book) and infringed on the creator's right to copy and distribute it. There are plenty of ways for him to read the book, for free even. He could have gone to a public library which would be like streaming for anime, hell he could have borrowed the book from a friend which again again would be someone else covering the cost for you. You could rent the book (I think that was a thing). You can also simply not read it. In all those cases, you don't actually keep the copy of the book. Watching Illegal streams is a lot harder to argue against though, since that would be like someone owning a movie and letting their friends come over and watch it with them. Although in this case it would be millions of friends. In this case the free advertising defense does have some merit to it. |
Jul 17, 2015 3:14 AM
#116
KamiCity said: Watching Illegal streams is a lot harder to argue against though, since that would be like someone owning a movie and letting their friends come over and watch it with them. Although in this case it would be millions of friends. In this case the free advertising defense does have some merit to it. The difference there is in monetization. You can invite a friend over to watch a movie, you cannot start changing your friends to come over and watch movies (or if you did, and made enough money, you'd get a friendly visit from the FBI). That's why you couldn't just start a drive-in movie theater and charge admission to watch your home video collection, you don't own performance rights. |
Jul 17, 2015 8:51 PM
#117
Well, it's technically wrong. Really no question about that. However, I think it still helps the industry regardless. I would guess most people never would have watched anime if they couldn't watch it for free. Not to mention streaming is really a pain compared to just having a digital copy on your computer, where you can watch anytime and skip through episodes to decide if you actually even want to watch the thing. Streaming is also generally worse quality in terms of both sound and video. I know for actual non-anime movies I prefer watching the Blueray instead of the included digital (generally UV) copy. Streaming really needs to step up and give stuff that isn't compressed so much if they want to replace the actual physical copy. Internet is fast enough these days, but they keep trying to save money giving lower quality files through stream. I like to buy the actual copies of movies and stuff, but that's also because they are readily available. I've seen physical copies of very few anime here in the USA, and of the few that are released, they seem to be sold long after the initial airing. The distribution is just so bad, which is why pirating and streaming actually helps them. They do get sales of figurines and other anime goods too from people that aren't paying to watch the anime. Pretty sure those products are licensed and the studio gets some revenue from them. |
Jul 18, 2015 1:10 PM
#118
Xilium7 said: Yes. It's pretty sad to see the poll results. It's one thing to be a pirate, it's another to be completely delusional and act like not paying for a product is somehow justified because you can't afford it (or whatever other excuse you have). If you're gonna pirate stuff, at the very least you can own that shit. I subscribe to Funinimation and Crunchyroll but for any anime that isn't on either of those services, I pirate it. I'll buy the BD's/DVD's of shows I really like but for shows I may or may not watch in the future and really just want for archival purposes, I'll pirate it. Why? Because I'm a cheap bastard. I'm not owed those shows simply because they aren't on the services I'm willing to pay for or because they aren't my favorites shows. Bluntly put, I do it because I can and the likelihood of their being any consequences are minimal. That said, I'm still going to call a spade a spade. Piracy is illegal and overall harmful to the anime industry. Period. Citation needed. KamiCity said: Drunk_Samurai said: If the law is wrong then there is nothing bad about breaking it. What part of "Right and Wrong" is subjective don't you understand? Also yes it has to be physical. That's the definition of theft. Something that is physically TAKEN and not COPYING something. That is 100% why copyright infringement will never be theft. But I guess you missed out on some really early schooling and can't tell the difference between two different words and concepts. Shit, you would have learned the definition of taking as far back as kindergarten. No it doesn't, there is nothing and I mean absolutely nothing in the definition of stealing that says it has to be physical, the definition (which you yourself put up) even says ideas can be stolen. Ideas are not physical. That last definition doesn't even have anything to do with what we are talking about. Yes it does, the last definition has to do with stealing intellectual property, it has everything to do with what we're talking about.You yourself put up the definition, you yourself can't even comprehend it. Copyright infringement isn't stealing ideas. That definition would be somebody breaking a patent law. offmodel said: Grey-Zone said: Well there is a SEVERE difference though. If you "steal" something (STRG+X) then the original owner DEFINITLY loses one potential customer who they can sell the product to, even if it's not the one who stole it. If you just "copy" something (STRG+C) then the original owner MAY lose the person who copied it as a potential customer, but it does not affect other sales. It's also easy to forget that those who "copy" something aren't necessarily people who would buy the product otherwise, like if they don't have enough money to spare in the first place. The ONLY PEOPLE who would really worsen the sales in that case are those who do have enough money to buy it and would be willing if they couldn't copy it. It's up in the air if the loss of income is greater than the positive effects of the free advertisment of the medium due to all the copying... You are pretending that piracy only competes with direct sales, though. It also competes with legal streaming, which provides advertising revenue and subscriptions for paid users. That is where the switch to streaming is different than the old model, people keep pretending that there was an era when everyone bought everything they watched. That was never true, you had a mix of video rentals, watching on TV (either cable or OTA) and actual home video ownership. Piracy competed with all of those, just as it competes with streaming now. Someone who can't afford to buy a Sentai BD probably can afford to watch the same content, for free with ads, on Hulu. I didn't know somebody in Chad could watch anime on Hulu. |
Jul 18, 2015 2:09 PM
#119
I watch a lot of older anime which is often out of print or very rare. Not going to pay 300$ for a 15 year old anime boxset, sorry. |
Jul 18, 2015 2:21 PM
#120
Technically pirating/illegally streaming is wrong. But guess what, I don't give a shit. If I want something then I am going to get it either way. If I liked something very very much then I will go out of my way to actually buy it. Anime's intended audience was for the Japanese and most of their market is based there. If anything pirating actually helps bring in exposure and people outside of Japan to actually buy their stuff. |
Jul 18, 2015 9:50 PM
#121
I don't have a problem with other people illegally downloading/pirating anime, but I personally don't do it myself. I stream pretty much everything, and if it's worth it, I'll buy it. The only time when I use fansubs if there is no legal streaming available and/or I can't buy it; for example, I can't find a Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni S1 copy (Region 4), so I used fansubs. |
Jul 19, 2015 12:02 AM
#122
RainHeaven said: Technically pirating/illegally streaming is wrong. But guess what, I don't give a shit. If I want something then I am going to get it either way. If I liked something very very much then I will go out of my way to actually buy it. Anime's intended audience was for the Japanese and most of their market is based there. If anything pirating actually helps bring in exposure and people outside of Japan to actually buy their stuff. I've bought lots of animes Blurays and other anime related stuff, due to watching them illegally and really enjoying the anime (s). If I really enjoy an anime I will go out and buy it. Similar to video game industry, these companies like to pull out bullshit numbers about how much piracy is affecting the industry (Even tho for both industries the last couple years have been the most profitable ever hurr hurr). Anyways, the best way to support the industry isbuying the blurays and discs of animes you really enjoy. Let's be honest here, a lot of anime fans became fans through pirating/illegally streaming, who then went on to legally streaming or buying discs. Pirating has played a huge role in making the industry what it is in the west today. Hell, crunchyroll was once and illegal website many years ago as well. Now look at it. |
davinci12Jul 19, 2015 12:08 AM
Jul 19, 2015 1:01 AM
#123
Drunk_Samurai said: Copyright infringement isn't stealing ideas. That definition would be somebody breaking a patent law. Umm no, like I said take a law course if you're going to pretend to know what you are talking about. There are 3 types of intellectual property protection laws 1. Copyright: Protects works of authorship, as in the ideas for books, music, drawings, and any other form of media. 2. Patents: This has to do with inventions, it is a limited time protection to make and sell the things you invent. It's a short duration, and after your patent is up people can recreate your invention and sell it. 3. Trademarks: This is any image, name, or symbol that is used to distinguish you product. Logo's, phrases, and even catchy jingles can all be trademarked. This is to protect your products image and to avoid consumer confusion. All 3 pertain to ideas, since all three have to do with intellectual property. So that definition has to do with copyright, patents, AND trademarks. |
Jul 19, 2015 1:02 AM
#124
Drunk_Samurai said: I didn't know somebody in Chad could watch anime on Hulu. I have already said to you, multiple times in multiple threads, I have no problem with someone in that situation pirating. You just keep repeating the same one liners, this is getting silly. |
Jul 19, 2015 2:42 AM
#125
Well I certainly don't give a shit about the AMERICAN anime industry. Companies who license, release and dub anime can die. They are irrelevant to Dutch fans. All 500 of us ;) But buying Japanese blurays is something I have done on occasion. |
Jul 19, 2015 3:04 AM
#126
no this is smart. you get the product and yet save your money. how this can be wrong? |
Jul 19, 2015 3:06 AM
#127
Its wrong but it helps the industry since people would buy merch of something they like but they wouldnt even start if they had to pay |
Jul 19, 2015 3:22 AM
#128
Drunk_Samurai said: Actually physically stealing something causes shrink and the only way a person who downloads something is a lost sale is if they would have bought the product in the first place. The original copy had already been sold anyway even technically TV rips due to advertisements. A person who would not have bought the product in the first place is literally costs a company $0 due to never even planning on it. Citation needed. |
Jul 19, 2015 3:35 AM
#129
Nothing wrong about it. Just filthy capitalists trying to milk you for money they don't deserve. It's scary when people try to equate digital copyrights to moral laws. |
TsundereppoiJul 19, 2015 3:39 AM
... |
Jul 19, 2015 4:15 AM
#130
Tsundereppoi said: Nothing wrong about it. Just filthy capitalists trying to milk you for money they don't deserve. It's scary when people try to equate digital copyrights to moral laws. It's wrong, there is really no difference between copyright for physical works and copyright for digital works. The time and energy needed to create the work is the same for both a physical copy and a digital one. You are consuming their product so they do deserve money from you. |
Jul 19, 2015 4:20 AM
#131
I may be against the law, but a lot of animes aren't shown in my country. And you can't even buy them on DVD. So if you want to watch something mostly you have to download, or watch it online. |
Jul 19, 2015 4:31 AM
#132
ExTamplier said: Zergneedsfood said: Coolspot said: Depends on how you were raised. Ok batman. Yeeeeeah. That was Bane. |
"I love a woman who can kick my ass." -Spike Spiegel |
Jul 19, 2015 4:37 AM
#133
a-rootin-tootin said: Yeeeeeah. That was Bane. I'm pretty sure Frank Miller's Batman would tie up all the pirates and leave them in front of Gen Fukunaga's house right after he got done dealing with no good hippies, anyway. Tsundereppoi said: It's scary when people try to equate digital copyrights to moral laws. I think most people are equating them to actual, physical laws with civil ramifications for torrenters, nobody is saying that Immanuel Kant would be sad that you don't value artists. |
Jul 19, 2015 4:40 AM
#134
I think, if mangas and animes wouldn't be so expensive and a lot more animes were released in every country, more people would buy them. |
Jul 19, 2015 4:41 AM
#135
CatchyMalice said: This is a question that has been asked for ages and it is being asked yet again, what is your opinion on internet piracy but more specifically piracy in relation to anime? In my personal opinion I stick with the "Try before you Buy" model before deciding to spend my money on a physical copy of an anime as I feel many of you do. Usually before pirating/illegally streaming though I check my CrunchyRoll account and see if the anime is there first, if it is not there then I will resort to using illegal sites and/or downloading the anime. But what is your opinion on illegal streams/piracy? Personally I do not believe it is as bad as many would have you believe but I will say that buying anime in there physical copies does help the anime industry and subscribing to services like CrunchyRoll helps a little bit. But this is just my opinion, what's yours? Of course it hurts the industry. Sometimes. IT really depends on how you look at it. While I do not condone piracy, I tend not to judge people who illegally download their stuff. Let's use an example. Bob has heard of a really good anime from his friend. Bob sees it in the store. His friend keeps telling him that he should watch it. Bob considers buying it, but then he doesn't and instead illegally downloads it. Bob sucks. He hurt the industry. But what about Bill? Bill has heard about this show. Whatever. He sees it in the store but never considers buying it. Even if he did consider buying it, he doesn't have the money to do so and so he says screw it. He asks his buddy if he can borrow it from him. His buddy is a jerk and says no (or his buddy just doesn't own it). Oh well. Tough titties, Bill. But then Bill discovers a link that will allow him to illegally download it and so he does so. He really enjoyed the show. Now Bill couldn't afford the (insert price here) for the DVD, but he finds a t-shirt or maybe a mouse pad that costs 3/4 the price of the DVD. Has Bill hurt the industry? Maybe. An argument could be made. But the thing is that he was never going to buy the DVD in the first place and so regardless of whether or not he had downloaded it, that company wasn't going to get his money anyways. Now considering the scenario I presented, he did spend substantially less on some other merchandise related to the show. So they did get at least something from him. In the end, really, it's a touchy subject. Is it wrong to do so? I think so. But I'm not going to condemn somebody for it. I will say, though that if your financial situation allows you to buy the DVD or somehow legally purchase the product in order to view it, then don't be a chump. Support the industry. Or buy used. But then, the industry isn't really seeing that money, either. But hey, if all you're worried about is legal ramifications, then at least you can't get in trouble for that. |
a-rootin-tootinJul 19, 2015 4:46 AM
"I love a woman who can kick my ass." -Spike Spiegel |
Jul 19, 2015 11:36 AM
#136
davinci12 said: RainHeaven said: Technically pirating/illegally streaming is wrong. But guess what, I don't give a shit. If I want something then I am going to get it either way. If I liked something very very much then I will go out of my way to actually buy it. Anime's intended audience was for the Japanese and most of their market is based there. If anything pirating actually helps bring in exposure and people outside of Japan to actually buy their stuff. I've bought lots of animes Blurays and other anime related stuff, due to watching them illegally and really enjoying the anime (s). If I really enjoy an anime I will go out and buy it. Similar to video game industry, these companies like to pull out bullshit numbers about how much piracy is affecting the industry (Even tho for both industries the last couple years have been the most profitable ever hurr hurr). Anyways, the best way to support the industry isbuying the blurays and discs of animes you really enjoy. Let's be honest here, a lot of anime fans became fans through pirating/illegally streaming, who then went on to legally streaming or buying discs. Pirating has played a huge role in making the industry what it is in the west today. Hell, crunchyroll was once and illegal website many years ago as well. Now look at it. Its actually funny. Like last year when they claimed they lost "trillions" or whatever bullshit number it was since they were counting every single last download as a lost sale. Crunchyroll is different for that and actually deserve any hate they get for the hypocrisy. KamiCity said: Drunk_Samurai said: Copyright infringement isn't stealing ideas. That definition would be somebody breaking a patent law. Umm no, like I said take a law course if you're going to pretend to know what you are talking about. There are 3 types of intellectual property protection laws 1. Copyright: Protects works of authorship, as in the ideas for books, music, drawings, and any other form of media. 2. Patents: This has to do with inventions, it is a limited time protection to make and sell the things you invent. It's a short duration, and after your patent is up people can recreate your invention and sell it. 3. Trademarks: This is any image, name, or symbol that is used to distinguish you product. Logo's, phrases, and even catchy jingles can all be trademarked. This is to protect your products image and to avoid consumer confusion. All 3 pertain to ideas, since all three have to do with intellectual property. So that definition has to do with copyright, patents, AND trademarks. Why would I need to take a law course where the law actually differentiates between copyright infringement and actual theft? offmodel said: Drunk_Samurai said: I didn't know somebody in Chad could watch anime on Hulu. I have already said to you, multiple times in multiple threads, I have no problem with someone in that situation pirating. You just keep repeating the same one liners, this is getting silly. Yet you keep saying the same shit about Hulu without indicating you are talking about people who can actually watch it only. Idria said: Drunk_Samurai said: Actually physically stealing something causes shrink and the only way a person who downloads something is a lost sale is if they would have bought the product in the first place. The original copy had already been sold anyway even technically TV rips due to advertisements. A person who would not have bought the product in the first place is literally costs a company $0 due to never even planning on it. Citation needed. Read the thread, Zatoichi. a-rootin-tootin said: CatchyMalice said: This is a question that has been asked for ages and it is being asked yet again, what is your opinion on internet piracy but more specifically piracy in relation to anime? In my personal opinion I stick with the "Try before you Buy" model before deciding to spend my money on a physical copy of an anime as I feel many of you do. Usually before pirating/illegally streaming though I check my CrunchyRoll account and see if the anime is there first, if it is not there then I will resort to using illegal sites and/or downloading the anime. But what is your opinion on illegal streams/piracy? Personally I do not believe it is as bad as many would have you believe but I will say that buying anime in there physical copies does help the anime industry and subscribing to services like CrunchyRoll helps a little bit. But this is just my opinion, what's yours? Of course it hurts the industry. Sometimes. IT really depends on how you look at it. While I do not condone piracy, I tend not to judge people who illegally download their stuff. Let's use an example. Bob has heard of a really good anime from his friend. Bob sees it in the store. His friend keeps telling him that he should watch it. Bob considers buying it, but then he doesn't and instead illegally downloads it. Bob sucks. He hurt the industry. But what about Bill? Bill has heard about this show. Whatever. He sees it in the store but never considers buying it. Even if he did consider buying it, he doesn't have the money to do so and so he says screw it. He asks his buddy if he can borrow it from him. His buddy is a jerk and says no (or his buddy just doesn't own it). Oh well. Tough titties, Bill. But then Bill discovers a link that will allow him to illegally download it and so he does so. He really enjoyed the show. Now Bill couldn't afford the (insert price here) for the DVD, but he finds a t-shirt or maybe a mouse pad that costs 3/4 the price of the DVD. Has Bill hurt the industry? Maybe. An argument could be made. But the thing is that he was never going to buy the DVD in the first place and so regardless of whether or not he had downloaded it, that company wasn't going to get his money anyways. Now considering the scenario I presented, he did spend substantially less on some other merchandise related to the show. So they did get at least something from him. In the end, really, it's a touchy subject. Is it wrong to do so? I think so. But I'm not going to condemn somebody for it. I will say, though that if your financial situation allows you to buy the DVD or somehow legally purchase the product in order to view it, then don't be a chump. Support the industry. Or buy used. But then, the industry isn't really seeing that money, either. But hey, if all you're worried about is legal ramifications, then at least you can't get in trouble for that. What if a person who can afford the DVD has no intention of buying the product? Or even the merchandise related to whatever anime it could be? |
Jul 19, 2015 12:01 PM
#137
Drunk_Samurai said: Yet you keep saying the same shit about Hulu without indicating you are talking about people who can actually watch it only. What country does Sentai do business in that Hulu isn't available in? The last time I checked, they are both American companies. EDIT: Also, before any Canadians get me, Sentai content is available for you guys via AnimeNetwork - http://www.theanimenetwork.com/ |
offmodelJul 19, 2015 12:15 PM
Jul 19, 2015 1:36 PM
#138
Drunk_Samurai said: Idria said: Drunk_Samurai said: Actually physically stealing something causes shrink and the only way a person who downloads something is a lost sale is if they would have bought the product in the first place. The original copy had already been sold anyway even technically TV rips due to advertisements. A person who would not have bought the product in the first place is literally costs a company $0 due to never even planning on it. Citation needed. Read the thread, Zatoichi. So you have no proof that people who downloaded an anime would NEVER have bought it or watched it with ads instead downloading it. |
IdriaJul 19, 2015 1:59 PM
Jul 19, 2015 4:03 PM
#139
TheDerpMan said: Also, if you live in North America and the show you're interested in is readily available on Crunchyroll or Hulu to stream for FREE and you refuse to watch it there. Then you're simply being blatantly disrepectful. So, someone who doesn't prefer watching shows online and/or has limited bandwidth is being blatantly disrespectful even if that person buys DVD's? |
Jul 20, 2015 12:12 AM
#140
Drunk_Samurai said: davinci12 said: RainHeaven said: Technically pirating/illegally streaming is wrong. But guess what, I don't give a shit. If I want something then I am going to get it either way. If I liked something very very much then I will go out of my way to actually buy it. Anime's intended audience was for the Japanese and most of their market is based there. If anything pirating actually helps bring in exposure and people outside of Japan to actually buy their stuff. I've bought lots of animes Blurays and other anime related stuff, due to watching them illegally and really enjoying the anime (s). If I really enjoy an anime I will go out and buy it. Similar to video game industry, these companies like to pull out bullshit numbers about how much piracy is affecting the industry (Even tho for both industries the last couple years have been the most profitable ever hurr hurr). Anyways, the best way to support the industry isbuying the blurays and discs of animes you really enjoy. Let's be honest here, a lot of anime fans became fans through pirating/illegally streaming, who then went on to legally streaming or buying discs. Pirating has played a huge role in making the industry what it is in the west today. Hell, crunchyroll was once and illegal website many years ago as well. Now look at it. Its actually funny. Like last year when they claimed they lost "trillions" or whatever bullshit number it was since they were counting every single last download as a lost sale. Crunchyroll is different for that and actually deserve any hate they get for the hypocrisy. KamiCity said: Drunk_Samurai said: Copyright infringement isn't stealing ideas. That definition would be somebody breaking a patent law. Umm no, like I said take a law course if you're going to pretend to know what you are talking about. There are 3 types of intellectual property protection laws 1. Copyright: Protects works of authorship, as in the ideas for books, music, drawings, and any other form of media. 2. Patents: This has to do with inventions, it is a limited time protection to make and sell the things you invent. It's a short duration, and after your patent is up people can recreate your invention and sell it. 3. Trademarks: This is any image, name, or symbol that is used to distinguish you product. Logo's, phrases, and even catchy jingles can all be trademarked. This is to protect your products image and to avoid consumer confusion. All 3 pertain to ideas, since all three have to do with intellectual property. So that definition has to do with copyright, patents, AND trademarks. Why would I need to take a law course where the law actually differentiates between copyright infringement and actual theft? offmodel said: Drunk_Samurai said: I didn't know somebody in Chad could watch anime on Hulu. I have already said to you, multiple times in multiple threads, I have no problem with someone in that situation pirating. You just keep repeating the same one liners, this is getting silly. Yet you keep saying the same shit about Hulu without indicating you are talking about people who can actually watch it only. Idria said: Drunk_Samurai said: Actually physically stealing something causes shrink and the only way a person who downloads something is a lost sale is if they would have bought the product in the first place. The original copy had already been sold anyway even technically TV rips due to advertisements. A person who would not have bought the product in the first place is literally costs a company $0 due to never even planning on it. Citation needed. Read the thread, Zatoichi. a-rootin-tootin said: CatchyMalice said: This is a question that has been asked for ages and it is being asked yet again, what is your opinion on internet piracy but more specifically piracy in relation to anime? In my personal opinion I stick with the "Try before you Buy" model before deciding to spend my money on a physical copy of an anime as I feel many of you do. Usually before pirating/illegally streaming though I check my CrunchyRoll account and see if the anime is there first, if it is not there then I will resort to using illegal sites and/or downloading the anime. But what is your opinion on illegal streams/piracy? Personally I do not believe it is as bad as many would have you believe but I will say that buying anime in there physical copies does help the anime industry and subscribing to services like CrunchyRoll helps a little bit. But this is just my opinion, what's yours? Of course it hurts the industry. Sometimes. IT really depends on how you look at it. While I do not condone piracy, I tend not to judge people who illegally download their stuff. Let's use an example. Bob has heard of a really good anime from his friend. Bob sees it in the store. His friend keeps telling him that he should watch it. Bob considers buying it, but then he doesn't and instead illegally downloads it. Bob sucks. He hurt the industry. But what about Bill? Bill has heard about this show. Whatever. He sees it in the store but never considers buying it. Even if he did consider buying it, he doesn't have the money to do so and so he says screw it. He asks his buddy if he can borrow it from him. His buddy is a jerk and says no (or his buddy just doesn't own it). Oh well. Tough titties, Bill. But then Bill discovers a link that will allow him to illegally download it and so he does so. He really enjoyed the show. Now Bill couldn't afford the (insert price here) for the DVD, but he finds a t-shirt or maybe a mouse pad that costs 3/4 the price of the DVD. Has Bill hurt the industry? Maybe. An argument could be made. But the thing is that he was never going to buy the DVD in the first place and so regardless of whether or not he had downloaded it, that company wasn't going to get his money anyways. Now considering the scenario I presented, he did spend substantially less on some other merchandise related to the show. So they did get at least something from him. In the end, really, it's a touchy subject. Is it wrong to do so? I think so. But I'm not going to condemn somebody for it. I will say, though that if your financial situation allows you to buy the DVD or somehow legally purchase the product in order to view it, then don't be a chump. Support the industry. Or buy used. But then, the industry isn't really seeing that money, either. But hey, if all you're worried about is legal ramifications, then at least you can't get in trouble for that. What if a person who can afford the DVD has no intention of buying the product? Or even the merchandise related to whatever anime it could be? Then they're a cheap bastard and they should feel bad. |
"I love a woman who can kick my ass." -Spike Spiegel |
Jul 20, 2015 5:01 AM
#142
Drunk_Samurai said: Why would I need to take a law course where the law actually differentiates between copyright infringement and actual theft? Maybe because you have no idea what you are talking about. Theft encompasses a bunch of things and there is no "Actual Theft" since there are multiple things considered theft like, Larceny, Bulgarly, Looting, Robbery, Embezzlement oh yea and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Electronic_Theft_Act, You know the law for those who commit copyright infringement. Pretty sure it has theft in the name. Or you know this: Criminal intellectual property theft offenses include copyright and trademark infringement and theft of trade secrets. Civil intellectual property suits include copyright, trademark, and patent infringement. Here's the source. http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=998 |
KamiCityJul 20, 2015 5:09 AM
Jul 20, 2015 2:48 PM
#143
Idria said: Drunk_Samurai said: Idria said: Drunk_Samurai said: Actually physically stealing something causes shrink and the only way a person who downloads something is a lost sale is if they would have bought the product in the first place. The original copy had already been sold anyway even technically TV rips due to advertisements. A person who would not have bought the product in the first place is literally costs a company $0 due to never even planning on it. Citation needed. Read the thread, Zatoichi. So you have no proof that people who downloaded an anime would NEVER have bought it or watched it with ads instead downloading it. I never said that. I said a lost sale would only happen if a person actually pirated something they intended on buying. a-rootin-tootin said: Then they're a cheap bastard and they should feel bad. I don't see why. I could have afford Naruto years ago but I would definitely not want to buy it. KamiCity said: Drunk_Samurai said: Why would I need to take a law course where the law actually differentiates between copyright infringement and actual theft? Maybe because you have no idea what you are talking about. Theft encompasses a bunch of things and there is no "Actual Theft" since there are multiple things considered theft like, Larceny, Bulgarly, Looting, Robbery, Embezzlement oh yea and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Electronic_Theft_Act, You know the law for those who commit copyright infringement. Pretty sure it has theft in the name. Or you know this: Criminal intellectual property theft offenses include copyright and trademark infringement and theft of trade secrets. Civil intellectual property suits include copyright, trademark, and patent infringement. Here's the source. http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=998 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowling_v._United_States_(1985) |
Jul 20, 2015 3:36 PM
#144
There's almost no need to pirate anime nowadays, you have quite a few FREE streaming sites to watch anime. Plus, usually anime clubs are a way of sharing anime you may already own creating a huge library that's already there. |
Jul 20, 2015 3:44 PM
#145
Well, not EVERY show is legally able to license or stream, especially obscure or some old shows (if they're both old AND obscure...lol good luck with that). Plus some other countries don't get a lot of anime available. 'Course, coming from BasedU.S., I don't really have a whole lot of defense. And I'm 100% ok with that. |
Jul 20, 2015 11:37 PM
#146
Drunk_Samurai said: KamiCity said: Drunk_Samurai said: Why would I need to take a law course where the law actually differentiates between copyright infringement and actual theft? Maybe because you have no idea what you are talking about. Theft encompasses a bunch of things and there is no "Actual Theft" since there are multiple things considered theft like, Larceny, Bulgarly, Looting, Robbery, Embezzlement oh yea and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Electronic_Theft_Act, You know the law for those who commit copyright infringement. Pretty sure it has theft in the name. Or you know this: Criminal intellectual property theft offenses include copyright and trademark infringement and theft of trade secrets. Civil intellectual property suits include copyright, trademark, and patent infringement. Here's the source. http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=998 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowling_v._United_States_(1985) Dowling case was in 1985, the No Electronic Theft Act is 1997.... Sooooooo what's your point? In fact the dowling case was one of the reasons NET Act even exists, since it provided a loophole. Once again, if you knew law then you'd already know this. There is a saying about a river in Egypt, maybe you know it. |
Jul 21, 2015 3:07 AM
#147
Is it really illegal if a certain product is not licensed in a country and protected by its laws? |
Jul 21, 2015 3:15 AM
#148
KuroudoAkabane said: That's debatable, and depends on the countryIs it really illegal if a certain product is not licensed in a country and protected by its laws? |
Jul 21, 2015 4:05 AM
#149
KuroudoAkabane said: Is it really illegal if a certain product is not licensed in a country and protected by its laws? Yes because the license is held by the Japanese producers if they haven't sold it of, so "unlicensed" only means that that the license is still with original creators. |
Jul 21, 2015 4:06 AM
#150
Drunk_Samurai said: Idria said: Drunk_Samurai said: Idria said: Drunk_Samurai said: Actually physically stealing something causes shrink and the only way a person who downloads something is a lost sale is if they would have bought the product in the first place. The original copy had already been sold anyway even technically TV rips due to advertisements. A person who would not have bought the product in the first place is literally costs a company $0 due to never even planning on it. Citation needed. Read the thread, Zatoichi. So you have no proof that people who downloaded an anime would NEVER have bought it or watched it with ads instead downloading it. I never said that. I said a lost sale would only happen if a person actually pirated something they intended on buying. "A person who would not have bought the product in the first place is literally costs a company $0 due to never even planning on it." Prove they would never have consumed it legally one way or another if they hadn't pirated it. |
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