Which is worse? Nationalism or religion?

Harukaze25 said:
This is so interesting because not long ago Nationalism and Religion were considered very positive things.

Deus-Vult said:
blame 9/11

DrGeroCreation said:
Territorial expansion, acquiring resources, money and discrimination are the real main causes of war not simply religion and nationalism.

Rakaxo said:


Territorial expansion sounds like nationalism for me.

Rakaxo said:


Territorial expansion sounds like nationalism for me.

DrGeroCreation said:
Doesn't seem so to me.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nationalism

a feeling that people have of being loyal to and proud of their country often with the belief that it is better and more important than other countries

: a desire by a large group of people (such as people who share the same culture, history, language, etc.) to form a separate and independent nation of their own

1
: loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
2
: a nationalist movement or government


Territorial expansion was practiced even before the rise of nationalism in the late 18th century.

Rakaxo said:
Depend on what you consider nationalism. To me nationalism seems to always have existed. So long nation exist the nationale pride will always be there.

Rakaxo said:


Depend on what you consider nationalism. To me nationalism seems to always have existed. So long nation exist the nationale pride will always be there.

teruu said:


You did. If not, you implied so.

You put them from top to bottom on which religion is the worst yet you hardly know little to no information about any of them. You.are ignorant.

2-methylgeniol said:


teruu's post also applies to Islam but fuck it, right?

I love how people take a shit on Islam and go on with their daily lives like they've done a deed of great virtue. I love how almost each one of you is close-minded about one mutual thing: Islam. I love how much of hypocrites you guys are.

Keep up the dumbassry.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

_Charl said:

teruu said:
Hitler was raised as a catholic. And yes, you are right.. That is why Hitler's religious views are often debated upon.

Olwen said:
Btw, anyone who says the Quran should be metaphorically interpreted is a retard. There's nothing metaphorical about "slay them wherever you find them." That's literal, period, and anyone who denies it is going to be ignored.

_Charl said:

Okay Sheikh or Priest or Professor. We, MAL fellow, all are Phds. Religion books are science books. We shouldn't consider about

Harukaze25 said:
This is so interesting because not long ago Nationalism and Religion were considered very positive things.

_Charl said:

Okay Sheikh or Priest or Professor. We, MAL fellow, all are Phds. Religion books are science books. We shouldn't consider about

Most Muslims believe that the Quran is the literal word of God as recited to the Islamic prophet Muhammad through the angel Gabriel.

DrGeroCreation said:


Pre 9/11 - Muslims fighters = great, courageous freedom fighters against those nasty atheist commies

Post 9/11 - Muslims fighters = radical terrorists

_Charl said:
Oh, Sheikh, you must understand the complete meaning and grasp all the wisdom of Quran after one reading. I bet you can read and understand Arabic, your last thread about ISIS implied that.

"It is the same whether or not you forwarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith" (2:6).
"God will mock them and keep them long in sin, blundering blindly along" (2:15).

A fire "whose fuel is men and stones" awaits them (2:24).

They will be "rewarded with disgrace in this world and with grievous punishment on the Day of Resurrection" (2:85).

"God's curse be upon the infidels!" (2:89).

"They have incurred God's most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits [them]" (2:90).

"God is the enemy of the unbelievers" (2:98).

"The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Christians and Jews], and the pagans, resent that any blessing should have been sent down to you from your Lord" (2:105).

"They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter" (2:114).

"Those to whom We [God] have given the Book, and who read it as it ought to be read, truly believe in it; those that deny it shall assuredly be lost" (2:122).

"[We] shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate" (2:126).

"The East and the West are God's. He guides whom He will to a straight path" (2:142).

"Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, but you are not aware of them" (2:154).

"But the infidels who die unbelievers shall incur the curse of God, the angels, and all men. Under it they shall remain for ever; their punishment shall not be lightened, nor shall they be reprieved" (2:162).

"They shall sigh with remorse, but shall never come out of the Fire" (2:168).

"The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing" (2:172).

"Theirs shall be a woeful punishment" (2:175).

"How steadfastly they seek the Fire! That is because God has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in extreme schism" (2:176).

"Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . If they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers"(2:190–93).

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not" (2:216).

"They will not cease to fight against you until they force you to renounce your faith—if they are able. But whoever of you recants and dies an unbeliever, his works shall come to nothing in this world and in the world to come. Such men shall be the tenants of Hell, wherein they shall abide forever. Those that have embraced the Faith, and those that have fled their land and fought for the cause of God, may hope for God's mercy" (2:217–18).

"God does not guide the evil-doers" (2:258).

"God does not guide the unbelievers" (2:264).

"The evil-doers shall have none to help them" (2:270).

"God gives guidance to whom He will" (2:272).

"Those that deny God's revelations shall be sternly punished; God is mighty and capable of revenge" (3:5).

"As for the unbelievers, neither their riches nor their children will in the least save them from God's judgment. They shall become fuel for the Fire" (3:10).

"Say to the unbelievers: ‘You shall be overthrown and driven into Hell—an evil resting place!'" (3:12).

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam. . . . He that denies God's revelations should know that swift is God's reckoning" (3:19).

"Let the believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful—he that does this has nothing to hope for from God—except in self-defense" (3:28).

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is evident from what they utter with their mouths, but greater is the hatred which their breasts conceal" (3:118).

"If you have suffered a defeat, so did the enemy.We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that God may know the true believers and choose martyrs from among you (God does not love the evil-doers); and that God may test the faithful and annihilate the infidels" (3:140).

"Believers, if you yield to the infidels they will drag you back to unbelief and you will return headlong to perdition. . . .We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. . . . The Fire shall be their home" (3:149-51).

"Believers, do not follow the example of the infidels, who say of their brothers when they meet death abroad or in battle: ‘Had they stayed with us they would not have died, nor would they have been killed.' God will cause them to regret their words. . . . If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, God's forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches they amass" (3:156).

"Never think that those who were slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, and well provided for by their Lord; pleased with His gifts and rejoicing that those they left behind, who have not yet joined them, have nothing to fear or to regret; rejoicing in God's grace and bounty. God will not deny the faithful their reward" (3:169).

"Let not the unbelievers think that We prolong their days for their own good. We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful punishment awaits them" (3:178).

"Those that suffered persecution for My sake and fought and were slain: I shall forgive them their sins and admit them to gardens watered by running streams, as a reward from God; God holds the richest recompense. Do not be deceived by the fortunes of the unbelievers in the land. Their prosperity is brief. Hell shall be their home, a dismal resting place" (3:195–96).

"God has cursed them in their unbelief" (4:46).

"God will not forgive those who serve other gods besides Him; but He will forgive whom He will for other sins. He that serves other gods besides God is guilty of a heinous sin. . . . Consider those to whom a portion of the Scriptures was given. They believe in idols and false gods and say of the infidels: ‘These are better guided than the believers'" (4:50–51).

"Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise" (4:55–56).

"Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made of your religion a jest and a pastime" (5:57).

"That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. We have stirred among them enmity and hatred, which will endure till the Day of Resurrection" (5:65).

"God does not guide the unbelievers" (5:67).

"That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. But do not grieve for the unbelievers" (5:69).

"You see many among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal torment. . . .You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in affection to them are those who say: ‘We are Christians'" (5:80–82).

"[T]hose that disbelieve and deny Our revelations shall become the inmates of Hell" (5:86).

"[T]hey deny the truth when it is declared to them: but they shall learn the consequences of their scorn" (6:5).

"We had made them more powerful in the land than yourselves [the Meccans], sent down for them abundant water from the sky and gave them rivers that rolled at their feet. Yet because they sinned We destroyed them all and raised up other generations after them. If We sent down to you a Book inscribed on real parchment and they touched it with their own hands, the unbelievers would still assert: ‘This is but plain sorcery.' They ask: ‘Why has no angel been sent down to him [Muhammad]?' If We had sent down an angel, their fate would have been sealed and they would have never been reprieved" (6:5–8).

"Who is more wicked than the man who invents falsehoods about God or denies His revelations?" (6:21).

"Some of them listen to you. But We have cast veils over their hearts and made them hard of hearing lest they understand your words. They will believe in none of Our signs, even if they see them one and all. When they come to argue with you the unbelievers say: ‘This is nothing but old fictitious tales.' They forbid it and depart from it. They ruin none but themselves, though they do not perceive it. If you could see them when they are set before the Fire! They will say: ‘Would that we could return! Then we would not deny the revelations of our Lord and would be true believers' 6:23–27).

"But if they were sent back, they would return to that which they have been forbidden. They are liars all" (6:29).

"Had God pleased He would have given them guidance, one and all" (6:35).

"Deaf and dumb are those that deny Our revelations: they blunder about in darkness. God confounds whom He will, and guides to a straight path whom He pleases." (6:39)

"[T]heir hearts were hardened, and Satan made their deeds seem fair to them. And when they had clean forgotten Our admonition We granted them all that they desired; but just as they were rejoicing in what they were given, We suddenly smote them and they were plunged into utter despair. Thus were the evil-doers annihilated. Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe!" (6:43–45).

"[T]hose that deny Our revelations shall be punished for their misdeeds" (6:49).

"Such are those that are damned by their own sins. They shall drink scalding water and be sternly punished for their unbelief" (6:70).

"Could you but see the wrongdoers when death overwhelms them! With hands outstretched, the angels will say: ‘Yield up your souls. You shall be rewarded with the scourge of shame this day, for you have said of God what is untrue and scorned His revelations" (6:93).

"Avoid the pagans. Had God pleased, they would not have worshipped idols. . . . We will turn away their hearts and eyes from the Truth since they refused to believe in it at first. We will let them blunder about in their wrongdoing. If We sent the angels down to them, and caused the dead to speak to them, . . . and ranged all things in front of them, they would still not believe, unless God willed otherwise. . . . Thus have We assigned for every prophet an enemy: the devils among men and jinn, who inspire each other with vain and varnished falsehoods. But had your Lord pleased, they would not have done so. Therefore leave them to their own inventions, so that the hearts of those who have no faith in the life to come may be inclined to what they say and, being pleased, persist in their sinful ways" (6:107–12).

"The devils will teach their votaries to argue with you. If you obey them you shall yourselves become idolaters. . . . God will humiliate the transgressors and mete out to them a grievous punishment for their scheming" (6:121–25).

"If God wills to guide a man, He opens his bosom to Islam. But if he pleases to confound him, He makes his bosom small and narrow as though he were climbing up to heaven. Thus shall God lay the scourge on the unbelievers" (6:125).

On almost every page, the Koran instructs observant Muslims to despise nonbelievers. On almost every page, it prepares the ground for religious conflict. Anyone who can read passages like those quoted above and still not see a link between Muslim faith and Muslim violence should probably consult a neurologist.

_Charl said:
]
lmao
You are not a religious person and could say that? You are genius, Sheikh. You should study about Arabic and tell us the legit verse.

_Charl said:
Generalizing=Finest
Okay, you are doing right, Phd.

Olwen said:


ROFL ISIS, terrorists, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc. all take it literally SINCE THEY KILL APOSTATES. It means they're taking that verse literally if they're following it!

You have no idea what you're talking about and should be ignored LOL.

Involtus said:


it makes sense though

if religion causes lots of wars then the solution is to just have one religion

so the best thing to do is kill the nonbelievers

then we have peace

why do you hate peace?

Olwen said:
I know this is a joke post, but it's not true even as a joke since Muslims fight among themselves (ISIS).

DrGeroCreation said:
Nationalism didn't exist in the 17th century and before considering empires and kingdoms existed then not nations.

Deus-Vult said:
lmao
Nationalism existed BCOZ of territorial expansion of several european powers
so how come nationalism is territorial expansion to u?

Involtus said:


there can only be one correct interpretation of the words of the prophet

all other interpretations are wrong and amount to disbelief, even if they call themselves islam

so there is no infighting

ic said:


GUYS I DID IT, I GOT RID OF ALL THE EVIL IN THE WORLD!

Rakaxo said:


You expand your country or empire by taking over other people territories. It will make you country look stronger and put in more nationale pride in people.

Rakaxo said:
And you can not feel nationale pride of you Empire or Kindgdom?

icirate said:
pppfffffftt WHAT?!
hahahaha oh that is so good.

I like you. You're funny.

Let's just define things out of existence!

Deus-Vult said:
are u talking bout Nazis?
Nazis = Nationalism = lmao
Like the Nazi Germany is the only nationalist country out there lol

and discarding other Nationalist countries like Republic of China, Philippines, Indonesia, Bolivia, Mexico, Confederation of Central America and etc?
Bruh, the lmao will be onto u

Rakaxo said:
And you can not feel nationale pride of you Empire or Kindgdom?

Rakaxo said:
Did i ever say that expansion is the only form of nationalism? Did i ever say that the Nazi were the only one that did expand their empire? Also Indonesia is gulty of expansion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_occupation_of_East_Timor? So why even mention it?

Rakaxo said:
The King and the crown can be symbol for the nation you know.

Deus-Vult said:
Ok
Discard my other examples
how cute

and Im pretty sure the Indons didnt do it for nationalism
and look, they even gave East Timor independence last 2001
so....... what were u saying agen?

Rakaxo said:
Explain how i did dicard you're other examples? I need more laugh.

And how did Indonesia not do it by nationalism? Indonesia declared the territory a province of Indonesia. I think the reason why East Timor got it independence is because Suharto was out of power then. But correct me if i are wrong.

Deus-Vult said:
still
they didnt do it for the Nation instead they did it for their Monarchs

_Charl said:

lol
since when indonesia did that for nationalism?
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/~rgwhitma/classweb2/history%20and%20conflict.htm

Rakaxo said:


That's like saying the Nazis or Imperial Japan did not invade country for their race or nation. They did it only for their Führer and Emperor.

Deus-Vult said:
pls put evidences that bcoz of Nationalism, The Philippines, Republic of China, Bolivia (lol) Mexico and The Central American Confederation"expanded'

as I said b4, it was Cold War
and since those Communist chinks (2nd world) supported Timor Leste, no wonder Indonesia (3rd world but supported by a 1st world) annexed them coz they are a threat

Deus-Vult said:
Japan is obviously was an empire
Germany, on the other hand, was obviously caring for the German race not the nation itself (since they want a big land for the Germans in the 1st place)