| I know the club rules states that only anime from 1994 and older can be discussed, but what about the rest of the 90's?. 1995-1999 are now considered old by many anime fans and discussion of the lesser known series from that time is almost non-existent online. I guess what I'm trying to get at is, could the rules ever be changed to allow content from the rest of the 90's? This was still part of the pre online fansubs era and animation was mostly done via cel. I understand that fans of pre 90's anime might not be too happy, but I believe the pay off would be beneficial overall. Thoughts? |
| Yeah, I'd even extend that to 00s somewhat. I do understand the club rules, but some of the cell animations peaked after 95 and there are still stuff even in the early 00s that are spiritually closer to old than not. |
| According to the FAQ by consensus of some old school anime scholars they decided on that time. I think it would fit if the date rises as the current date rises. In 50 years even the anime now will be considered old school. This club was made in 2010 so 16 years old or older is how it was when they started. I guess not a bad time, so I'd want anime up to 99 to be included(One Piece just fits in there). |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
| If you really want to stretch it, I'd say that old school is everything up until the introduction of digital animation, which is where things started changing. Otherwise we'd easily get up to 2010. since a lot of people consider everything before 2010. old school nowadays. Besides, it's not like the club forbids any kind of discussion for 1995-1999 shows. I assume it's there to encourage discussions of more older shows, like Leijiverse, Tatsunoko, Dezaki, that don't get talked about too often outside of the club, instead of just discussing Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion and Berserk that are talked about everywhere. |
 "Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
| Yes, I agree. It would be fun if the rest of the 90's were in this group. There are a lot of good shows in that decade to talk about! :) And I believe most people find it ''old school''. |
| I think going all the way up to 1999 wouldn't be a bad idea. I would be open to the idea. |
| Prior to joining this club, I always thought of 1995 as a dividing line, with the 1995-2002/2005 being a transitional period. Every date would be arbitrary, I'm ok with 1995 being the cut-off actually, but of course I wouldn't complain if it were to be extended to 1999. |
| You're all free to discuss shows from the 1995-1999. Or anything that was cel animated for that matter. The term "old school" would definitely apply to something 20 years old in the normal sense. 1995 was the dawning of a new era so to speak. The art style and vibe started to shift. There are also the glossy looking combo types in the late 90's. So for that reason, 1994 will continue to be the cut off in terms of what this club focuses on. Our objective is to create awareness for a particular time in history. Age isn't the end all be all. We can fast forward 15 years down the line and the discussion of even the earliest digital animation wouldn't fit in here. That's not the purpose, and it never will be. |
| It's a shame that the later parts of the 90's are in that middle ground. Too new for old school and not new enough to be considered as part of the new era. I completely understand making a cut off date though. Everyone's opinion on what's old will be different. Especially depending on your age. I think most kids these days will consider anything in "4:3 aspect ratio" as old. Even anything not in high-def could fall into that basket. It's weird thinking that today's stuff will be considered ancient one day. |
| I think it's important to keep the focus of the club on a small defined area of the medium. The 1995 cutoff is both effective and harmless, as it keeps discussion focused but doesn't prohibit people talking about other relevant anime (modern anime that seems to invoke old school style, new entries into old school franchises, or more specifically something from 1996). 1995 seems generous even as the cutoff could easily be 89-90. There is a bazillion other places to talk about 1995 and beyond anime, continually extending the cutoff would only serve to gradually defeat the purpose of the club. |
| Originally, another main purpose of the cutoff was also for the anime relations on the side of the main club page. We wanted to limit it a bit so the list wouldn't get too ridiculous. Now I don't think many users really pay attention to that in clubs anymore and I personally can't even remember the last time I updated it, or someone wanted something added, but it's a nice list we constructed that hopefully attracts some attention of fans on those anime pages. As other staff and veterans have mentioned, there is no harm to discussing shows from a bit later, but it is best to keep it a bit of a niche' focus. |
 |
Echelon said: Not really my friend. My vision was exactly what Hisoka nailed down on his post in a way that even myself couldn't have put it better. Originally, another main purpose of the cutoff was also for the anime relations on the side of the main club page. We wanted to limit it a bit so the list wouldn't get too ridiculous. As mentioned, people can still talk on later anime than what we normally talk here. We can use a topic like this one for that purpose for example. |
| When people tell about anime eras they use decade-periods: 70s, 80s, 90s... Splitting decade into halves is just weird. Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, GitS, Trigun, Outlaw Star, GaoGaiGar, Memories, Seikai no Monshou, Escaflowne, Nadesico... How this stuff is not oldschool? And 2000 has more natural border -- end of cell-based animation, beginning of digital animation. Besides, just look at the last 'anime of month' topics. People can barely come up with 2-3-voice consensus because they didn't watch much of that stuff. And second half of 90s has tons of classic that a lot of people watched. So I think it should be right to move current cutoff to 1999 or 2000. Who else thinks the same way? |
| No, as it was pointed out: HisokaHajime said: ... 1995 was the dawning of a new era so to speak. The art style and vibe started to shift. There are also the glossy looking combo types in the late 90's. So for that reason, 1994 will continue to be the cut off in terms of what this club focuses on. Our objective is to create awareness for a particular time in history. Age isn't the end all be all. We can fast forward 15 years down the line and the discussion of even the earliest digital animation wouldn't fit in here. That's not the purpose, and it never will be. EVA came in 1995 and it was definitely a shift in art, production process, philosophy, etc. Some later titles were a mix, at least visually, like Fushigi Yugi, Boys over flowers, Initial D, etc. because they were adapted from mangas of earlier period, but those you mentioned were notably different in art and concept. |
| (|__/) Never give up, aim for the top! (='.'=) Top wo nerae! o(")(") Anime music: http://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=777199 |
| Also, we've already had over 80 anime of the month winners. So they're not always going to be as unanimous compared to when the obvious choices were still in the mix. |
| I agree, by today's standards, this time period is undoubtedly considered old school. The most popular anime falling in this period (NGE, Bebop, Kenshin, the first Pokemon, Cardcaptor Sakura, GTO, Berserk, Slayers, and so on) are tagged as classics nowadays, and that to me is enough reason to include them. Aesthetically speaking these shows were mostly still cell-based, so including them wouldn't kill the spirit of the club in these terms imho. |
| Personally, my definition of old school anime is, at this point in time, anything made before the 2000s. From the early 60s to the late 90s, anime was mostly made with plastic hand painted cels, and while some series and films experimented with utilising digital compositing or effects, starting in the late 90s, shows would sometimes use digital animation for specific cuts and theres even a few examples of late 90s stuff entirely made using digipaint, but with the turn of the millennium, digipaint started becoming the norm and cel animation slowly died out. It's also interesting to note that with the rise of digital, more anime was being released then ever before, due to how much cheaper it is to produce anime in a huge quantity. For example, Fall 1995 had 11 new TV shows that premiered, whilst Spring 2018 had 75 (!!) new shows that premiered, kinda nuts. |
| I don't picture this ever being changed democratically, since the overwhelmingly young skew of MAL userbase demographics makes it a foregone conclusion that the vast majority of people visiting this club would agree with 2000 as a cutoff date, if not something even later than that. Klonoa7H said: It's also interesting to note that with the rise of digital, more anime was being released then ever before, due to how much cheaper it is to produce anime in a huge quantity. For example, Fall 1995 had 11 new TV shows that premiered, whilst Spring 2018 had 75 (!!) new shows that premiered, kinda nuts. There's also this factor: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2017-05-26/.116584 Business is booming in the anime industry right now. Streaming revenues from North America and China have more than offset declines in DVD/Blu-ray revenues. However, this rise in cashflow is not trickling down to the actual anime production companies, who have spent decades cutting their costs to the bone in order to stay competitive. Rather than pay more for production, the producers on the Production Committees are using the money to make more shows. Maybe worth adding: https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/06/23/anime-craft-weekly-41-i-cant-believe-its-2017-and-i-have-to-write-that-anime-is-hand-drawn/ Anime production still entails a lot of work and stress, more than is reasonable. Digitalization has enabled mass production on new levels, first by removing the bottleneck that was cel painting and nowadays by researching efficient and even partly automated digital workflows. And yet it remains a tremendous amount of work, made immensely worse by the surrounding circumstances. So don’t worry, anime has unfortunately not become easy to produce. |
| @nDroae Good points, although the passing of time does change perspective on things. Back in 2000, the PS2 and Dreamcast were seen as modern, but nearly 20 years after their original release, they are now seen as retro. Then again, I joined this club when I was 17 but now I'm 24, so what do I know? :D Its good to note as well that in-between animation staff rates have risen in newer shows, which is why animation for more standard stuff may seem "better" simply because its more shiny and modern, but really, its only the actual technology that has changed. Meanwhile, anime still utilises the same techniques popularised by Osamu Tezuka back in 1963, limited animation done on 3s and 4s for dialogue scenes, ands 2s and sometimes 1s for time consuming money shots. In hand drawn animation, limited animation looks fine, but in a CG framework, because of the expectations of fluidity in CG, it looks poor because of it trying to blend in. |
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